Declawing Ban

[sofficat]

AVAR (association of vets for animal rights) has succeeded in banning cat declaws in West Hollywood, California.

Here are my thoughts-

Side A) Legislation should not tell me how to practice and what I can and cannot do. Soon enought they will ban ear crops and tail docks which means that people will start to do these on their own (it happened twice in south florida this summer).

Side Z) I am against surgery for aesthetic reasons, thus I do not agree with cat declaws, ear crops or tail docks. As a vet, I will probably never perform any of these. I think it is a step in the right direction that the public is now starting to realize that you don't have to declaw every cat you get (when i was growing up it was just what you do). With that being said (and back to side A) I am sure that there are going to be times when a cat declaw should be performed (for ex- like safety reasons for the family). When that occurs, I want to be able to get that cat declawed legally.

Any thoughts?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[akitavet]

that I dont really have an opinion on cat declaws, but I show a Rhodesian ridgeback that breaks open the tips of his natural ears all the time. Every ridgeback I have ever seen (and thats a bunch) has had this happen. If this is why some breeds are cropping, then yes, do it! That's why the sporting dogs dock...so they dont break open or even break the tail in the field. The vet I work for does declaws, docks, and doesnt do crops but only because she's not well versed in proper cropping. We also do dewclaws on litters of puppies.

 

[philomycus]

Of course you will have owners with medical reasons that need that cats declawed. I understand that. I also know that some people will only adopt a cat who is declawed, so if it saves their life, that's. Generally though, I'm against declawing too. I don't think the government should step in though.

 

[bakaduin]

When I saw my first declaw it was at a clinic that didnt have a CO2 laser and I thought it was the most horrific thing I've ever seen. I vowed that I would never do a surgery like that. At my current clinic I have been able to see many declaws with the laser and I think its much better. Quick to heal, little to no bleeding, and much more humane. Now some people just dislike declaws in general, and Im ok with that, its certainly a surgery that is very controversial. But atleast I feel more comfortable if I had to do one.

 

[cla1203]

I have to agree that declawing should only be done as the absolute last ditch effort to keep the kitty. BUT, I also believe that when the government steps in, it can only mean trouble. Now anybody that truly needs their cat declawed (let's say he won't stop scratching a new baby in the house) the only way people would be able to have it done is with an illegitimate "vet" Now, which way would you think is more humane? A licensed vet or some guy trying to make a few bucks at his house? That's just my opinion though, for what it's worth.

 

[david594]

When I saw my first declaw it was at a clinic that didnt have a CO2 laser and I thought it was the most horrific thing I've ever seen. I vowed that I would never do a surgery like that. At my current clinic I have been able to see many declaws with the laser and I think its much better. Quick to heal, little to no bleeding, and much more humane. Now some people just dislike declaws in general, and Im ok with that, its certainly a surgery that is very controversial. But atleast I feel more comfortable if I had to do one.

Ive only ever seen it without a laser and I must say it makes me cringe.

Glad to hear there is a better way to do it.

 

[Beagingese]

How exactly do they intend on enforcing this? Does the ban apply to vets (i.e. restricting what any vet in that area does?)? or does it apply just to the owners (i.e. those living in that town can't get a cat declawed no matter what vet they go to, even if it's out of the area?)? Seriously...ridiculous...

 

[VAgirl]

What about the idea that declawing makes cats more likely to bite? I've also heard people say that it increases the likelihood that the cat will have litter box issues. I have no idea if any of this is true, but I can say that my cat is declawed and she definitely bites (more than other cats I have met). It's anecdotal evidence, but from a logical standpoint, the increased biting makes sense to me. If you take away the claws defense, the cat learns that hitting you with her front paw doesn't "work," and if she tries biting, she'll see that that does "work." It just seems to make sense to me.

So I'm not sure that declawing will necessarily make a cat any "safer."

Also, I would say removing dewclaws from dogs can be very different. We had these removed from our Shepherd because they were so flimsily attached, they would catch on things. We were afraid they would rip out and cause her pain, so they were removed when she was spayed. Are dewclaws ever removed for cosmetic reasons?

 

[vegternarian]

Whether a declaw or any cosmetic procedure should be done or not should be determined by the doctor and client. Period.

 

[nyanko]

Whether a declaw or any cosmetic procedure should be done or not should be determined by the doctor and client. Period.

I agree with this. Legislation to ban declawing only takes away the right to choose what may be best for your pet.

My position is that the veterinarian should educate on declawing, what it entails and what other options exist (training, softpaws) and the owner should then be able to decide what they will do on their own given all the information. I don't LOVE declawing but it is certainly better than the cat being taken to the shelter or thrown outside permanently because they scratched a couch.

 

[PiddlingFish]

I'm glad that we're finally starting to become as civilized as Europe.

 

[vegternarian]

I agree with this. Legislation to ban declawing only takes away the right to choose what may be best for your pet.

We agree on something???? omg high five!!!

My position is that the veterinarian should educate on declawing, what it entails and what other options exist (training, softpaws) and the owner should then be able to decide what they will do on their own given all the information. I don't LOVE declawing but it is certainly better than the cat being taken to the shelter or thrown outside permanently because they scratched a couch.

At my clinic we won't do a declaw when the p. is >5 or so years just because recovery time is so long and the chance of some really serious consequences is so high. I think the doctor should have the right to refuse a procedure in some cases. The O doesn't always make the best decisions, you know?

 

[VelcroSky]

I hate declawing. The procedure is nasty and watching the cats recover is horrible. That being said, I still plan on doing it as a vet. I believe that if declawing was banned nationwide then we would see a decrease in the adoption of cats. That's unacceptable to me. I do think that the public needs to be better educated though. I have two indoor cats, neither of which are declawed and my furniture is still intact and the only time I get scratched is when I play with them and I get bunny kicked (and that's easily avoided, if I were to care). There are ways to discourage scratching and they should be tried before the decision to declaw is made. And if that doesn't work, then maybe declawing is the right way to go. It beats turning the cat out of the home.

One other thing that should be mentioned while we're on the topic, I think that vets should talk to their clients about training their cats very early in the game (i.e. first visit) because if the declawing is going to happen, it's probably best to do it at the same time as the spay/neutering so that you only have to put the cat under once, thus minimizing anesthesia risks.

 

[bakaduin]

Lol to add there are some ferocious cats that have come in for procedures that I have been very glad were declawed =P.

 

[sofficat]

to be the devil's advocate... declawing is illegal all around the world, yet are they having problems with low adoption rates, people illegally declawing (not in a vet's office), cats getting euthanized or kicked out on the street? i don't think they are, but i honestly don't know. i just want to throw another perspecitve out. any of you from australia, germany, switzerland, spain, etc have a say on this?

 

[rexosaurus]

Lol to add there are some ferocious cats that have come in for procedures that I have been very glad were declawed =P.

I definately agree. I have a scar on my hand from a "friendly" kitty named Fred that I will remember forever. If she were declawed....

 

[Doctor Bagel]

What about the idea that declawing makes cats more likely to bite?

I'm curious about this, too. I've heard it before but never from a professional.

Interesting thoughts about the legislation in this thread. Emotionally it seems right to me just because I hate declawing, but I agree that I'd rather a cat get declawed and get to live in a nice home than get euthanized or have owners who don't even allow the cat inside.

I'm glad you guys are planning on doing lots of patient education on the issue -- it seems like so many people reflexively declaw their cats before even seeing if clawing will be a problem.

 

[VelcroSky]

to be the devil's advocate... declawing is illegal all around the world, yet are they having problems with low adoption rates, people illegally declawing (not in a vet's office), cats getting euthanized or kicked out on the street? i don't think they are, but i honestly don't know. i just want to throw another perspecitve out. any of you from australia, germany, switzerland, spain, etc have a say on this?

I may have to look deeper into this after all. I just found an article that says that declawed cats may be more likely to be given up by owners than those with their claws. They site the behavioral problems that occur after declawing as the main reason. Check out this site: http://www.pawproject.com/html/faqs.asp

They talk about things like biting and litter box avoidance that some of the other posters were talking about. Check out the question "Do declawed cats find homes more easily because they won't damage furniture? Will people abandon or euthanize their cats if they cannot have a veterinarian declaw their cats?"

 

[VelcroSky]

Here is a link to the actual lawsuit:

http://www.law.com/jsp/ca/LawDecisionCA.jsp?id=1182762361241

The law apparently allows declawing that are "necessary for a therapeutic purpose". I'm not sure what qualifies as necessary for a therapeutic purpose but there it is.

 

[ShelterGirl]

I hate declawing. I think it messes with cat's minds to an extent when you take away one of their primary means of defense. When declawed cats are surrendered to our shelter they tend to be much more frightened and angry than ones who still have all their tools, so to speak.

Having said that, as a practicing veterinarian I will probably perform declaws, but only using laser and only after client education and discussion like VelcroSky mentioned.

 

[VelcroSky]

Ok, at the risk of over-posting, I'm back. Here is a recent (2005) article that is less biased than the one I posted earlier. It's a very interesting read. The authors point out that there really haven't been any studies to back up whether or not declawing outweighs the alternatives. They point out that even though in Europe it is mostly illegal to declaw, they may also have a significantly lower number of indoor only cats. They also say that they were unable to find much scientific literature to suggest that the psychological trauma of declawing actually exist. So the article is unable to draw any real conclusions, but it is still an interesting read. The bottom line, there needs to be more research into this area to find out whether or not declawing plays a significant role in adoption rates vs. relinquish/euthanasia rates and to establish firm evidence to back up the trauma aspect.

http://testing.hsus.ga4.org/web-files/PDF/hsp/SOA_3-2005_Chap3.pdf

 

[VAgirl]

Ok, at the risk of over-posting

In my opinion, not overposting at all. Just helping add more information to the discussion. That should always be welcome.

Thanks, Velcro!

 

[bakaduin]

to be the devil's advocate... declawing is illegal all around the world, yet are they having problems with low adoption rates, people illegally declawing (not in a vet's office), cats getting euthanized or kicked out on the street? i don't think they are, but i honestly don't know. i just want to throw another perspecitve out. any of you from australia, germany, switzerland, spain, etc have a say on this?

I think theoretically speaking, your comparing apples and oranges. First of all, to a majority of Europeans it is socially and morally unacceptable to declaw cats. That is why in the UK though declawing wasnt legally outlawed until the Animal Welfare Act of 2006, it was very rare because the general population, and veterinarians, objected to it. What this means is it would have no effect on adoption rates because Europeans prefer cats with claws. In the U.S. this is quite the opposite and many cat owners are prefer declawed cats. Not being able to adopt declawed cats may lead to them not adopting at all. People don't declaw their cats themselves because they don't want them declawed at all.

The second big difference is that in European countries it is the norm to have outdoor cats rather than indoor cats. Having worked with a few different adoption groups it is quite common to have immigrants from European countries get very confused when you wont adopt them out a cat because they want to keep it outdoors.

 

[nyanko]

The second big difference that makes these cases different is that in European countries it is the norm to have outdoor cats rather than indoor cats. Having worked with a few different adoption groups it is quite common to have immigrants from European countries get very confused when you wont adopt them out a cat because they want to keep it outdoors.

Yeah I think that this is the big difference. I would never declaw a cat that the owners planned to let outside and in European countries a few adoption agencies won't adopt to you if you don't have a cat flap for outdoor access.

and re: owners not knowing best. That's a given, but I think that their wishes should still be respected to an extent. The only time I can remember the vet that I worked for doing a declaw on a cat over even the age of 3-4 was when the owner suddenly developed a blood clotting disorder and the cat often scratched her by accident while lying on her lap and stretching/kneading/whatever. That's also, incidentally, the only time I ever remember us having done a rear declaw, for the same reason. Under regular circumstances no rear declaw and no declaw on older cats, period. I don't think that as a veterinarian you are required to do whatever the owner requests, but on the same token, you also can't do things the owner doesn't approve. So it becomes a weird situation.

 

[Beagingese]

To echo the several other posts already made: I really don't like declawing. Cats have claws for a reason and like every other behavioral problem, scratching is just a natural habit used in a bad way (saw on your couch or your arm). There is pain involved with recovery, etc and I CAN'T STAND when owners adopt a kitten from the shelter and take him/her straight to the vet to be declawed without attempting training and without giving the cat the change to be good.

That said, I absolutely will perform declaws. If the choice is declaw, or end up in the shelter or thrown outside- DECLAW. Many larger hospitals and clinic are also using laser exclusively for this procedure which is a DREAM! We have more problems from cats being TOO active immediately after surgery because the pain is so significantly reduced than from cats wallowing in misery. So I say, don't declaw if possible. If not possible, use a laser. If your vet doesn't use laser for declaws, drive two towns over and get it done at a vet there that does. And if crazy animal rights-ers ban declawing in your county, drive to the next county and get it done there. What REALLY bugs me is that these guys are animal rights-ers vets...that really gets under my skin because I feel like the people that should be on our side, our colleagues, fighting for our right to client education and the right to determine and practice veterinary medicine as best we see fit- are legislating it away because "it's mean", or "it's painful" or some other silly wussy reason....anyway...rant....I apologize...

 

[julieDVM]

i can perform a declaw as efficiently and as proficiently with a scalpel as with a laser - its a matter of doing it properly. further, if proper analgesia is employed (local blocks, balanced anesthesia, pre and post op pain meds) you can significantly reduce the discomfort the cat feels, and by reducing the pain (in my opinion) expedite its recovery.

I agree with education before declawing - but if it comes down to it, i'll perform the procedure, usually with little hesitation.

 

[chris03333]

I'm curious about this, too. I've heard it before but never from a professional.

Declawing making cats more likely to bite...In my professional opinion (I am licensed to practice in 2 states, one being California) is that it is unfounded.

My personal opinion is it is a load of crap

 

[bakaduin]

i can perform a declaw as efficiently and as proficiently with a scalpel as with a laser - its a matter of doing it properly.

Your certainly more knowledgeable on the subject than me as I havent gone through vet school yet. But I have heard and seen many veterinarians who use the clipper method for declaws and the laser is certainly better on the patient than that.

 

[chris03333]

Your certainly more knowledgeable on the subject than me as I havent gone through vet school yet. But I have heard and seen many veterinarians who use the clipper method for declaws and the laser is certainly better on the patient than that.

Clipper (reskos) are not the same as a scalpel.

 

[bakaduin]

Clipper (reskos) are not the same as a scalpel.

I know, I was saying that may dont take the care or precision to use the scalpel.

 

[StealthDog]

I CAN'T STAND when owners adopt a kitten from the shelter and take him/her straight to the vet to be declawed without attempting training and without giving the cat the change to be good.

The sucky part is, recovery is so much faster in young kittens since they have so much less weight on those paws. So do you wait and try training at the risk of a more difficult surgery?

 

[dyachei]

to be the devil's advocate... declawing is illegal all around the world, yet are they having problems with low adoption rates, people illegally declawing (not in a vet's office), cats getting euthanized or kicked out on the street? i don't think they are, but i honestly don't know. i just want to throw another perspecitve out. any of you from australia, germany, switzerland, spain, etc have a say on this?

When you say all around the world you mean Europe and Australia right? Because I know for a fact that it is legal in most of Asia. I worked with a vet in Singapore who used to do declaws. In a country that is almost all city, it can be hard to have outdoor cats and many of the animals would not have been adopted had they not been declawed. Sad, but true.

 

[sofficat]

"The following is a list of countries in which declawing cats is either illegal or considered extremely inhumane and only performed under extreme circumstances.

England Scotland Wales Italy France Germany Austria Switzerland
Norway Sweden Netherlands Northern Ireland Ireland Denmark
Finland Slovenia Portugal Belgium Spain Brazil Australia
New Zealand Yugoslavia ."

this is just one list i found