US Horse Slaughter Ban Lifted

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I'd like to believe this would work, but I just don't see the economics of it these days. Unless, of course, Bill Gates or his ilk, gets interested in horse rescue.

His daughter is apparently a rider.... ;)

Just trying to play devil's advocate. I got caught in this trap during my interview at Mississippi State --
"How do you feel about horse slaughter" "Pro"
"What if it was your horse...." "Umm...."

I think it's something that every equine-oriented interviewee should think about, especially since this became a hot topic item this week.

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His daughter is apparently a rider.... ;)

Just trying to play devil's advocate. I got caught in this trap during my interview at Mississippi State --
"How do you feel about horse slaughter" "Pro"
"What if it was your horse...." "Umm...."

I think it's something that every equine-oriented interviewee should think about, especially since this became a hot topic item this week.


If it came down to slaughter in the US or slaughter in mexico, I know what I'd choose for my own horse.
I plan on having my first horse donated to a teaching hospital when it comes to that time- might as well have some good come from a death, whether it's learning or feeding.
 
I think along with what cowgirl was saying, each vet school needs to step it up and have a good donation program and only use donated horses for teaching.
Unfortunately the ponies from our anatomy lab were purchased and killed for the purpose of the class - when I am sure that plenty of people would have donated their ponies if they had the opportunity to dispose of the body for free and for a good cause.
What do other schools do?
 
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That's one shining point for Western - all the anatomy specimens are voluntarily donated by hospital clients. Not only is that nicer than having to purchase them from somewhere, but processing the specimens in-house ensures quality, an issue we faced with our purchased specimens this year. Poor injection, incomplete preservation, perforated body cavities, etc... we had to buy more at one point, which means more dead animals, more cost... I wish more schools could do what Western does.
 
That's one shining point for Western - all the anatomy specimens are voluntarily donated by hospital clients. Not only is that nicer than having to purchase them from somewhere, but processing the specimens in-house ensures quality, an issue we faced with our purchased specimens this year. Poor injection, incomplete preservation, perforated body cavities, etc... we had to buy more at one point, which means more dead animals, more cost... I wish more schools could do what Western does.


The horses for the spring semester are bought and "processed" in the anatomy lab.
You'll still find poor injections, incomplete preservation, etc. Definitely not a gaurantee.
 
I think along with what cowgirl was saying, each vet school needs to step it up and have a good donation program and only use donated horses for teaching.
Unfortunately the ponies from our anatomy lab were purchased and killed for the purpose of the class - when I am sure that plenty of people would have donated their ponies if they had the opportunity to dispose of the body for free and for a good cause.
What do other schools do?

Our ponies are donated. The 3rd years perform an advanced surgery on them that you couldn't do on an animal that you would wake up. Then they are euthanized and are prepped at the school for the first years to use for dissection.
 
From what I understand from the COTH BB's from folks who have attempted to donate horses to vet schools, many vet schools are filled to capacity with teaching horses and (especially in light of recent budget cuts) can't afford to take on anymore.

Plus, it takes a special type (aka personality) of horse to be a suitable teaching horse -- especially the lovely mares we use for rectal palpation labs.

I'm not 100% sure on the sourcing of the ponies in Penn's anatomy lab, so please don't quote me on this, but my guess is that many of those guys and gals would've soon been on a truck to Mexico if not purchased for anatomy...
 
Just trying to play devil's advocate. I got caught in this trap during my interview at Mississippi State --
"How do you feel about horse slaughter" "Pro"
"What if it was your horse...." "Umm...."

but... can't "I wouldn't be in that situation" be an option? Like, would it be that unreasonable to say that you keep X amount of money in your savings account for a horse euthanasia if it came down to it? That you're pro-horse slaughter for the horses that would be abandoned or shipped off to other countries for slaughter, but that you personally would not choose slaughter as an option for your horse?

Kinda like how people can be pro-choice so that others would have that choice, but would not personally have an abortion?
 
Unfortunately the ponies from our anatomy lab were purchased and killed for the purpose of the class - when I am sure that plenty of people would have donated their ponies if they had the opportunity to dispose of the body for free and for a good cause.

Were these ponies purpose bred? Or were they rejects at auctions that no one else wanted anyway? If it was the latter, would it make a difference?
 
but... can't "I wouldn't be in that situation" be an option? Like, would it be that unreasonable to say that you keep X amount of money in your savings account for a horse euthanasia if it came down to it? That you're pro-horse slaughter for the horses that would be abandoned or shipped off to other countries for slaughter, but that you personally would not choose slaughter as an option for your horse?

Kinda like how people can be pro-choice so that others would have that choice, but would not personally have an abortion?

That was basically how I finished up my "umm..." statement. But instead of it rolling smoothly off my tongue, I felt trapped and panicked a bit (obviously, since that's still 1 of 3 total interview questions/statements I can recall from my 3 interviews). ;)
 
From what I understand from the COTH BB's from folks who have attempted to donate horses to vet schools, many vet schools are filled to capacity with teaching horses and (especially in light of recent budget cuts) can't afford to take on anymore.

Plus, it takes a special type (aka personality) of horse to be a suitable teaching horse -- especially the lovely mares we use for rectal palpation labs.

I'm not 100% sure on the sourcing of the ponies in Penn's anatomy lab, so please don't quote me on this, but my guess is that many of those guys and gals would've soon been on a truck to Mexico if not purchased for anatomy...


I personally donated a horse to a vet school for a terminal study a few years ago - my first horse. I had the same experience, and this was before things got REALLY bad. I had calls in to 3 vet schools and it was months before one had an opening that would be suitable for my mare. Fortunately I had a really great experience with the donation coordinator and the school overall, and while I still miss my horse, I don't regret the end I chose. It was certainly a more humane one than slaughter, the way slaughter is run at the moment.
 
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You don't have to agree with me or like my opinion, but the truth speaks for itself.
[/soapbox]

Well, I appreciate the effort that you put into that argument as it is a well-formed one. I have read several articles on the incident now and am terribly disturbed as to what went on. Hopefully something has been done about the breach of regulations and that such violations won't occur in Canada in the future (or the U.S. once this is up and running). I don't believe the CFIA condoned the actions taken as they launched in investigation into the incident --- and hopefully things were sorted out.

I worked closely with CFIA agents during my internship (though it was dealing more with international travel papers and border inspections) and will continue to have faith in that they are doing what they can to resolve the problems that arise.
 
I am sure I will just be restating what's already been said (I did not read all of the posts... so many!), but I also think this is a better solution than letting horses starve. It has a plus of potentially helping the economy, and horses would be shipped and slaughtered out of the country in less humane conditions than they would be in the US, anyways. If the US does choose to re-open plants, though, they will have to be constructed for HORSE slaughter, not cow slaughter as they have totally different mentalities. People are so appalled that others are even considering horse slaughter... while they are eating their hamburgers.

If people don't want there to be horse slaughter, they have to stop adding to the surplus of horses in the country. Less breeding = less horses = increase in price of quality horses = better business for *quality* breeders = better for the horse world in general. If people cut back on breeding, registered their horses, trained them well, and put the effort into finding good permanent homes for them, this would not be an "issue" in the first place. I for one plan on keeping my horse until the day she dies and never breeding her.
 
Amazing article! Thank you for sharing that! I love Dr. Grandin. She is an amazing woman with a big heart and a lot of compassion for animals. I hope that we can get management in these future processing plants to adhere strictly to her philosophies.

She came and spoke at our school. Pretty cool lady.

Kinda like how people can be pro-choice so that others would have that choice, but would not personally have an abortion?

In other words, not treading on other people's rights just because they don't match your own.
 
We Geld in the same way that we push for spaying and neutering of household pets.

This is a huge issue very close to home for me. My neighbor is now up to 6 horses on his 5 acre tract of land without a stitch of grass on his land. The kicker is, he's running not one, but 2 stallions on his property. Not only is the fencing not stallion safe, but every year he has another foal.

I had discussed with him more than once the danger behind having two stallions together with mares, but he didn't listen. I came home one day to find him chasing the young stallion throught he neighborhood because the dominant stallion had forced the young stallion through the fence and out of the pasture. I helped the guy catch the young one and treat his injuries, then watched as he attempted to put the young stallion back in the same pen. I was astonished at this guys lack of knowledge or willingness to accept that his situation wasn't going to work. After the older stallion nearly mowed down his wife in an attempt to prevent the young stud from being put back in the pasture, he finally separated the stallions.

At that point, I referred him to my vet and practically begged him to geld his studs.

To date, they're both still stallions, and now the young stallion is penned up with his mother. I guess we're in for more unwanted and inbred horses...

Unfortunately, any attempt at educating some people falls on deaf ears and the poor animals are forced to pay the price for their owners' stubbornness.

Hopefully, we can get through to enough people to make a dent in the overpopulation problem.
 
She came and spoke at our school. Pretty cool lady.


I know!! I wanted to come out for her presentation but wasn't able to get off work. I was pretty bummed. Hopefully she will make the rounds again and I'll finally get to see her in person.
 
Well, I appreciate the effort that you put into that argument as it is a well-formed one. I have read several articles on the incident now and am terribly disturbed as to what went on. Hopefully something has been done about the breach of regulations and that such violations won't occur in Canada in the future (or the U.S. once this is up and running). I don't believe the CFIA condoned the actions taken as they launched in investigation into the incident --- and hopefully things were sorted out.

I worked closely with CFIA agents during my internship (though it was dealing more with international travel papers and border inspections) and will continue to have faith in that they are doing what they can to resolve the problems that arise.

Thank you. I am hopeful that we can get these regulations enforced and this cruelty never happens again, but as with anything, there will always be some people who try to evade the rules for one reason or another. All we can do is keep putting the pressure on the folks with the power to effect change and hope for the best.

That's cool that you were able to intern with the CFIA, I'm sure that was an interesting experience.
 
The equine clinic I've worked with posted this, apparently from the AAEP. I think it's a nice summary, if sort of messy:
Recently there has been a lot of confusion about a new law legalizing horse processing. Here are the facts as released by the American Association of Equine Practitioners (AAEP):

In recent days you may have seen news reports regarding horse processing in the U.S. To help you understand what has happened and to provide you with information that may assist you with keeping your clients or colleagues informed, the AAEP has prepared a summary of the status of horse processing in the U.S.
Congress Passes USDA Appropriations Bill - USDA Inspection of Horse Processing Allowed to Resume
A provision that had prohibited USDA funds being used for personnel inspecting the slaughter process at horse processing facilities was not included in the Fiscal Year 2012 Agriculture, Commerce/Justice/Science, and Transportation/Housing and Urban Development Appropriations bills signed into law by President Obama on Nov. 18. The appropriations bill passed the House on a vote of 298-121, while the Senate voted 70-30 in favor of the bill. The bill funds a variety of federal programs and agencies and is not solely a bill addressing horse processing.

What does the passing of this bill mean for horse processing?
It means that USDA can now pay inspectors to inspect horses and meat that may be processed for human consumption at U.S. plants.
This bill does not, however, appropriate any new money to pay for these inspections. The USDA would have to find the money in the funds appropriated in the FY' 12 bill.
Is there a federal law that has been reversed?
No. There has been no law passed or changed dealing with processing itself. There is no current prohibition on the processing of horses in the U.S. The federal bills introduced in Congress to prohibit this are still before Congress. The only change is that for the past five years the USDA was not allowed to fund the inspection of horses at the plants - even though no plants were open - and now they are should a plant begin operating.
Will horse processing plants open?
While a plant could open and start processing horses, it should be understood that this appropriations bill is only good until September 30, 2012. In addition, as mentioned above, there are two bills currently in Congress proposing to ban horse processing in the U.S.: H.R. 2966 and S. 1176.
Due to state laws passed in Texas and Illinois, the home of the last plants to process horses in the U.S. in 2007, the processing of horses for human consumption in those states, even with USDA inspections allowed, will not be possible. Horse processing also is banned in California.
Does AAEP support the reopening of processing plants in the U.S?
With challenging economic times continuing to impact the United States, the large number of horses in our country that are considered unwanted and without viable care options remains a tremendous concern. Because of the increased potential for abuse, neglect and abandonment faced by this population of horses combined with the lack of financial resources for their long-term care, the AAEP does not oppose the reopening of processing facilities in the United States provided the facilities meet the following provisions:
1. Strict oversight of operations by the U.S. Department of Agriculture under the Commercial Transport of Horses to Slaughter Act and the regulations there under, including the presence of and inspections by USDA veterinarians at the facilities.
2. Horses are euthanized by trained personnel in a humane manner in accordance with the requirements of federal law and guidelines established by the American Veterinary Medical Association.
3. Transportation to the production facility is conducted according to the law and guidelines established by the USDA.
When other humane options do not exist, the AAEP supports processing as an acceptable form of euthanasia under these controlled conditions.

Additional Resources:
History of USDA inspection funding
Since 2007, no federal money has been allowed to be used to inspect horse slaughter facilities in the U.S., as stipulated in the Agricultural Appropriations bill over the past five years. Without U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) inspections, horse processing facilities could not process horses for human consumption because the meat could not be shipped internationally or interstate and a majority of the market for horse meat is overseas. Although this clause had support due to the undesirable idea of horse meat for human consumption in the U.S., many, including the AAEP, believe the ban had "unintended consequences" and this was again emphasized in a June 22, 2011 report issued by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) titled - "Horse Welfare: Action Needed to Address Unintended Consequences from Cessation of Domestic Slaughter."

AAEP Position on Horse Processing and Current Bills in Congress
GAO Report - Summary & Full Report (June 22, 2011)
AAEP Statement Regarding GAO Report on Horse Welfare (June 27, 2011)

For additional information, please contact Keith Kleine, AAEP industry relations director, at [email protected] or (800) 443-0177.​
 
I am really torn about this. I certainly do not think horses should be allowed to starve, but I don't fully understand why a humane euthanasia program cannot be practically put into place. I know the biggest barrier to overcome is carcass disposal, and perhaps this is completely naive of me, but why not give the humane society/animal control the power/funding to accept abandoned/unwanted horses and euthanize? Chemical euthanasia can certainly be expensive, but I have no problem with a gun/captive bolt and someone who is trained to use it.

I view horses as companion animals, not livestock. I think it is a choice to own and care for a horse and people need to be better educated. And I can't imagine someone, nor do I know anyone, who would sell a horse for the purpose of slaughter, so maybe I am just not on the same playing field here.

I also do not see how a slaughter house can ever be a humane place for horses. As a herd and prey animal, there will always be insurmountable amounts of stress in auction, transport, holding, and processing. There are steps that can be taken to reduce stress, but I don't see it being eliminated. I think it will always be a traumatic experience by nature.

I also have a problem with the fact that horses are not raised for meat in the United States. There is no (effective) control and regulation over drugs and management, and I would imagine meat quality would be highly variable and really not create a good consistent product anyway. I am fine with animals being raised for food and production, and having that purpose, but I think horses that were bred to be ridden/shown/whatever do not belong in meat production. (Sentimental me)

I can't help but get the jeebies when someone suggests all the jobs this will create. But my opinion on that is a whole different tangent focusing on the need for math and science education to create a competitive global workforce. Is the economy really so desperate that the best thing we can come up with for jobs is slaughtering and processing horses?


Yes, I agree there is a problem with unwanted horses in this country. But I disagree with the sentiment that everything is about money and maximizing profit when the welfare of animals is in question.
 
I know!! I wanted to come out for her presentation but wasn't able to get off work. I was pretty bummed. Hopefully she will make the rounds again and I'll finally get to see her in person.

Just curious do you go to Southwestern? Just saw the city where you are. I graduated from SU in 2007.
 
I am really torn about this. I certainly do not think horses should be allowed to starve, but I don't fully understand why a humane euthanasia program cannot be practically put into place.

I think you've answered your own question.

I know the biggest barrier to overcome is carcass disposal, and perhaps this is completely naive of me, but why not give the humane society/animal control the power/funding to accept abandoned/unwanted horses and euthanize?

Where would this funding come from?
 
The horses for the spring semester are bought and "processed" in the anatomy lab.
You'll still find poor injections, incomplete preservation, etc. Definitely not a gaurantee.

Truth. Our ponies are processed in-house, and this year's crop was an abysmal failure. One was so poorly preserved, they might as well have not even bothered trying. Our group scored a beautifully preserved pony :)thumbup:)... but everything outside of the thorax= total injection FAIL. The dogs and cats we worked with were in much better condition.

I also do not see how a slaughter house can ever be a humane place for horses. As a herd and prey animal, there will always be insurmountable amounts of stress in auction, transport, holding, and processing. There are steps that can be taken to reduce stress, but I don't see it being eliminated. I think it will always be a traumatic experience by nature.

Doesn't this apply to a number of the species regularly slaughtered in this country, though? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just looking to understand the perspective.
 
Where would this funding come from?

And frankly, if the answer is 'from the government', I'd much rather it go towards education at the lower levels (or maybe even the higher ones to give us a tuition break) than feeding horses when slaughter is an alternative.
 
And frankly, if the answer is 'from the government', I'd much rather it go towards education at the lower levels (or maybe even the higher ones to give us a tuition break) than feeding horses when slaughter is an alternative.

agreed. I would say that horses have no bearing on the lives of 99% of the people I know outside of vet school. I would personally object to gov't funding of disposal of unwanted horses for that reason, ESP if there's a viable disposal alternative that can fund itself. I'm not seeing too much of a difference from the horse's perspective between gov't funded captive bolt followed by disposal and slaughter house captive bolt followed by selling of meat, aside from the possibility that a slaughter house may not employ or care as much about humane handling of the horses. I think it's prob more effective and def more financially doable to just try and improve the conditions in the slaughter houses.
 
Hi all! I've been lurking for awhile but for some inexplicable reason, I'm choosing to introduce myself by posting on sensitive subject. I'll blame the insomnia. Finals week makes everyone crazy anyhow, right?

As a lifelong horse owner and lover, I never would have imagined myself as anything but anti-slaughter. Then last year, a family friend of mine had the bizarre situation of finding two abandoned horses essentially dumped on his doorstep. I was in a very intense reporting class at the time (senior public relations student, finally realized I actually don't like journalism and should have been pre-vet from the beginning... but that's another story) so I thought it would be an interesting topic for a story. Man finds random horses tied to his truck, maybe as a practical joke? I really had no idea what I getting myself into.

Countless hours of eye-opening interviews later, I came up with this story. Obviously some of it is out of date, but writing this, I learned so much about the opposite side of an issue on which I was sure no one could sway me.

I still don't know what I 100% believe, but I think it was a great learning experience for me. The older I get, the less black and white life is becoming. I think that's a good thing.

So yeah, hi! And I love this forum :)
 
agreed. I would say that horses have no bearing on the lives of 99% of the people I know outside of vet school. I would personally object to gov't funding of disposal of unwanted horses for that reason, ESP if there's a viable disposal alternative that can fund itself. I'm not seeing too much of a difference from the horse's perspective between gov't funded captive bolt followed by disposal and slaughter house captive bolt followed by selling of meat, aside from the possibility that a slaughter house may not employ or care as much about humane handling of the horses. I think it's prob more effective and def more financially doable to just try and improve the conditions in the slaughter houses.

Where is USDA money coming from? The government. USDA is understaffed and overworked as it is, and humane slaughter violations happen constantly, in all species. I don't believe it will be any different for horses.

Also, this article goes over some of the very high rates of inhumane slaughtering at a Canadian plant.
http://www.defendhorsescanada.org/lpn.html
Animals bred and raised for meat are very uniform in their size and market weight... cows being the possible exception, but still mostly the same. Horses can range from a 12hh pony to an 18hh draft horse. How can a slaughter house design a kill box to accommodate such a wide range of sizes? I'm sure they have adjustable electronic ones, but I can't imagine they'd spend the time to change it for each horse... plus that would also add more stress to the experience if the horse was in the box while it was moving.

I am against exporting horses to Canada and Mexico. I think tighter regulations and export fees at the border could stop that practice. I have nothing against death and euthanasia, I just do not agree that a slaughter plant is the appropriate and respectful place to do it. Yes, humans can make a few dollars, but I think there are other things to look at besides money.

Breed registrations and horse shows can charge a small fee (or even just have a donation box) to support humane euthanasia of unwanted horses. Animal control can charge a registration fee similar to those for cats and dogs. Breeders can face penalties for creating more horses. The racehorse industry can contribute. Euthanize horses on property on a trailer and sell to renderers. I think there are plenty of viable options for funding unwanted horses, but I do not think slaughtering horses for human consumption is one of them.

Things won't change while irresponsible owners still have places to dump their horses and receive payment for it. Just because something will be hard in the short term does not mean the long term benefits should be ignored.
 
I think there are plenty of viable options for funding unwanted horses, but I do not think slaughtering horses for human consumption is one of them.

If they exist, why weren't they implemented during the slaughter ban? I don't think the ones you proposed were realistic.
 
If they exist, why weren't they implemented during the slaughter ban? I don't think the ones you proposed were realistic.

Even if they're not 'unrealistic', I don't think they'd be able to deal with the huge number of animals that need disposed of...

Rollie Pollie, I liked your article. I wish I could write like that! :)
 
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