Dating in Medical School

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Making your girl jealous ---> she strives to please you better with her company (The same thing you're looking for) I couldn't agree more with your second paragraph. People, especially girls, are mostly dreaming during their daily life, trying to be what the movies aspire them to be. And when you bring up some sad realities about relationships (like the stuff we're talking about right now), you'll most probably be called a "douche".

This guy. Totally one of the best guys. Cafe Press is actually sold out of "World's Best Guy" mousepads because his friends made a run on the place.

It really scares me that some of the people posting on these boards have the future of health care entrusted to them. Yikes.

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He was being sarcastic and berating the guy about his comment about making your girl jealous to get her to treat you better.

I say if that's what it takes to get her to treat you better, you've got more issues than we thought.
 
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He was being sarcastic and berating the guy about his comment about making your girl jealous to get her to treat you better.

I say if that's what it takes to get her to treat you better, you've got more issues than we thought.

lol I figured as much...but what does "cafe press is sold out of world's best guy' etc mean?
 
If I knew any better, I'd suggest that maybe all this theorizing and attempting to game people into liking you/ staying with you is bound to backfire. The best thing is to be as sincere as possible about the big things, and the little things (when to play Scrabble and have sexy fun times and such) will take care of themselves. But of course I don't know any better! I have no experience with serious relationships and I'm all idealistic and such. And also I'm laboring under the assumption that we're talking about people who want to make relationships work for the long-term, because (being all idealistic and such) I don't see the point of making yourself emotionally and financially vulnerable if you don't want to stay with a person for quite some time. Twue wuv!

On the other hand, with the whole power-struggle thing, almost all human relationships have power distributed unequally in various areas. And obviously, there's the old stereotypical power dynamic where the guy appears to make all the important decisions with pomp and bluster while the female keeps things quietly running in the background. But it's stupid to generalize and try to fit the people around you into your theoretical framework. This I believe! Okay, I'll stop blustering on about things I don't know much about now.
 
lol I figured as much...but what does "cafe press is sold out of world's best guy' etc mean?


Cafe Press is a website that sells silly things. He is suggesting that they might sell a mousepad saying "World's Best Guy," and that many people might purchase one for you. He's being deeply sardonic in saying this. The whole conceit is meant to suggest that you are not the world's best guy, presumably because you try to make your girlfriend feel insecure in your affections.
 
Cafe Press is a website that sells silly things. He is suggesting that they might sell a mousepad saying "World's Best Guy," and that many people might purchase one for you. He's being deeply sardonic in saying this. The whole conceit is meant to suggest that you are not the world's best guy, presumably because you try to make your girlfriend feel insecure in your affections.

haha...to-wit, instead of actually reading it carefully, I brushed it over once and read it wrong....silly me.
 
with respect to your idealism...unfortunately idealism doesnt really work that way.

I also think that it depends on the type of girl, how attractive she is etc.
Being extremely nice will not get you anywhere...being a total dick wont either. Being yourself is the perfect way to go about it...I always say, treat a girl just like one of your guy friends. And thats basically my advice. It can't get anymore honest than that. I also think that its in no way taking advantage or being mean to women. I also think that its a pretty good way to succeed with women.

I agree that making a girl jealous is a one way ticket to failure...but I also think that belaboring the point, thinking overly much about a girl before your even dating is another one way ticket to hell. My entire point with my posts was that the guys asking for advice were failing by asking for the advice they were asking!

There's no point in gushing over someone unless your dating/long term. I think its important to just enjoy everything as it comes but not to sit back and hope some one shows attention at the same time...go out there, meet people/girls have fun, and enjoy the ride.

Gaming doesnt really exist...its just a business thats been created by the movie industry/self help people.
 
with respect to your idealism...unfortunately idealism doesnt really work that way.

I also think that it depends on the type of girl, how attractive she is etc.
Being extremely nice will not get you anywhere...being a total dick wont either. Being yourself is the perfect way to go about it...I always say, treat a girl just like one of your guy friends. And thats basically my advice. It can't get anymore honest than that. I also think that its in no way taking advantage or being mean to women. I also think that its a pretty good way to succeed with women.

I agree that making a girl jealous is a one way ticket to failure...but I also think that belaboring the point, thinking overly much about a girl before your even dating is another one way ticket to hell. My entire point with my posts was that the guys asking for advice were failing by asking for the advice they were asking!

There's no point in gushing over someone unless your dating/long term. I think its important to just enjoy everything as it comes but not to sit back and hope some one shows attention at the same time...go out there, meet people/girls have fun, and enjoy the ride.

Gaming doesnt really exist...its just a business thats been created by the movie industry/self help people.

Maybe I just totally misunderstood what you were saying! I'm not all that idealistic. I just think things get done eventually, whether or not you make a big to-do about things or not.

What does the attractiveness of the girl have to do with anything?
 
with respect to your idealism...unfortunately idealism doesnt really work that way.

I also think that it depends on the type of girl, how attractive she is etc.
Being extremely nice will not get you anywhere...being a total dick wont either. Being yourself is the perfect way to go about it...I always say, treat a girl just like one of your guy friends. And thats basically my advice. It can't get anymore honest than that. I also think that its in no way taking advantage or being mean to women. I also think that its a pretty good way to succeed with women.

I agree that making a girl jealous is a one way ticket to failure...but I also think that belaboring the point, thinking overly much about a girl before your even dating is another one way ticket to hell. My entire point with my posts was that the guys asking for advice were failing by asking for the advice they were asking!

There's no point in gushing over someone unless your dating/long term. I think its important to just enjoy everything as it comes but not to sit back and hope some one shows attention at the same time...go out there, meet people/girls have fun, and enjoy the ride.

Gaming doesnt really exist...its just a business thats been created by the movie industry/self help people.
My take on it is...all girls are ****** given the right guy and the right line, and its really not hard to be that guy.
 
This guy. Totally one of the best guys. Cafe Press is actually sold out of "World's Best Guy" mousepads because his friends made a run on the place.

It really scares me that some of the people posting on these boards have the future of health care entrusted to them. Yikes.

Making your girl a bit jealous can be achieved by means which don't harm the relationship. It's just about letting your girl know that she is not your last and only option and that her misbehavior can have consequences. Therefore, she gives up the things you don't like, and this just helps the relationship. IMO, there is no such thing as "equal power" in a relationship. You better grab it, if you can.
Handling my relationships the way I'm talking about, I've enjoyed the most out of my ex and current gfs so far, and they have enjoyed my companionship equally as well. However, everyone is welcome to stick with their a-cheek kissing methods, as they wish.

Dude, by the way, did you really think before posting your last statement? Your last statement somehow reveals some of your subconscious thoughts. The way one handles their relationships, has nothing to do with their involvement in health care, unless that one person is planning to date his/her future patients.
 
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Almost funny, yet strangely pathetic - relationship advice from a bunch of single guys...

I'm a happily married woman. We've been together for 15 years. We have a very good balance of power in our relationship. I dated spineless guys before him, and I was unhappy. I can't imagine a self-confident guy being truly happy in a relationship where the woman lets him walk all over her. Ick. You don't both have to be type A overachievers (although it is ok if you are, so long as you are willing to compromise in order to achieve important mutual goals) but one party should not have the majority of the power in a good relationship.

Believe me, NOTHING leads to divorce faster than a guy on a power trip, thinking that woman are money grubbing ******. She will eventually get fed up with your insecurity and leave with 50% of your assets and custody of your kids. Not because she was a gold digger to begin with, but because you didn't treat her like an equal partner in your marriage, your career and your life.
 
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I know this should be the least of my worries in med school, but I've never had a long term relationship yet... everyone is going to say... oh, chances are you're around med students all the time, so you're more likely to date another med student, but seriously:

what program/year is your current boyfriend/girlfriend in?
how/where did you guys meet?

I read that in the historical origins of residency programs, residents were frequently prohibited from being married, hence came the term, resident. I'm not sure whether hospitals scowled upon dating as well, although the early prohibitions certainly did seem obsessively pragmatic and prudish.
 
Almost funny, yet strangely pathetic - relationship advice from a bunch of single guys...

I'm a happily married woman. We've been together for 15 years. We have a very good balance of power in our relationship. I dated spineless guys before him, and I was unhappy. I can't imagine a self-confident guy being truly happy in a relationship where the woman lets him walk all over her. Ick. You don't both have to be type A overachievers (although it is ok if you are, so long as you are willing to compromise in order to achieve important mutual goals) but one party should not have the majority of the power in a good relationship.

Believe me, NOTHING leads to divorce faster than a guy on a power trip, thinking that woman are money grubbing ******. She will eventually get fed up with your insecurity and leave with 50% of your assets and custody of your kids. Not because she was a gold digger to begin with, but because you didn't treat her like an equal partner in your marriage, your career and your life.

thanks for your wonderful advice....on that note, can you help me? I have a few questions.

I'm in sooo total love with this girl I just met and I am soooo desperately wondering what I should do? Here's what I want to do! Well, ok we met only like twice but I know shes the ONE.. I mean she's got everything, looks, intelligence, and she's soooooo sweet. Ok now, before I begin medical school and have to suffer through all those hours of studying I wnat to make sure we have a good relationship already...so should I take her out to dinner? How about roses? I'm thinking petunias! Maybe I'll get her a ring, nothing fancy...maybe just like um a 100 dollar one? :smuggrin::smuggrin:

Ohhh the generalizations.....single guys? I'm not single...but thanks. And just because one person gives out advice that you don't like doesn't mean we all agree...perhaps you should bother reading the posts before you toss your 2 cents....and by that I really mean, TWO cents.

and your post is all over the place...first about how all the guys here are single and pathetic(without really explaining why we must be either one) then about spineless guys then about power hungry guys. And if you're married...really? why are you even posting here about how great it is? You havn't provided any advice other than start flaming people and make harsh generalizations.

Haha...if I ever do plan on being a total d!ck and exhibit such immaturity and insecurity I'll damn well sure make sure my bride to be signs a pre-nup!
 
I have read the whole thread, thanks very much. I don't really have the inclination to pick through everyone's posts in order to avoid offending those who have given thoughtful (as opposed to misogynistic) relationship advice.

My post was mainly directed at Mr. "Seize the Power" although there are many others who agreed with him.

Finally, I hate to break it to ya, but most people consider you single when you are dating. If you're married/living together not as students/have children together, that changes. If you don't want to take relationship advice from a long-termer, hurrah for you. Personally. I pay careful attention when someone further along a path I'm interested in comments.

As for flaming? Seriously, this is a 7 page thread with 35000 views - get over it.
 
I have read the whole thread, thanks very much. I don't really have the inclination to pick through everyone's posts in order to avoid offending those who have given thoughtful (as opposed to misogynistic) relationship advice.

My post was mainly directed at Mr. "Seize the Power" although there are many others who agreed with him.

Finally, I hate to break it to ya, but most people consider you single when you are dating. If you're married/living together not as students/have children together, that changes. If you don't want to take relationship advice from a long-termer, hurrah for you. Personally. I pay careful attention when someone further along a path I'm interested in comments.

As for flaming? Seriously, this is a 7 page thread with 35000 views - get over it.

Uh, actually no one has AGREED with what he said...in fact, most people have vehemently disagreed. I don't really think you've bothered to read any of the posts, which you don't have to but dont pretend like you have.

Uh what? most people consider people dating single? Maybe most of the married crowed...thats the oddest thing I've ever heard...the only time you're really considered single when dating is for official and tax purposes..
I hate to break it to you but the majority of med schoolers/premeds are not married. So perhaps you're referring to what the married crowd thinks...not really relevant.

And just because you're married doesn't mean anything about how valuable your advice is. Why? Because the VAST majority of people get married..In fact, dare I say, getting married is not a big deal in terms of achievements especially for young males between ages 20 and 30. While we all want to get married at some point its not exactly what bothers us when it comes to RELATIONSHIP ADVICE. whens the last time you ever heard a guy talk about getting married and saying...oh man I really want to get married, but I need help about finding someone for that....

its more along the lines of, oh man I've been trying so hard to date and attract women but I keep getting rejected. The thing is, everyone, fat, ugly, stupid, skinny, short, tall, light skinned/dark skinned gets married at some point...whats difficult is dating attractive women or attracting women in general for dating etc at a younger age.

So while yes, I would definately heed the advice of a medical student for medical school admissions, a physician for career advice, a surgeon for residency advice, those are all important people because they have acheived something incredibly difficult to attain. Marriage, I'm sorry to say, is not so hard.

Don't believe me? Then look at 50 people out there and I guarantee you some 80% of them are unattractive. Why is that? because two people you would never expect to get married did...and spit out some ugly kids. So why'd they get married? BECAUSE THEIR PRIORITIES ARE DIFFERENT FROM OURS.

What most guys want, and I'll bet ended up looking at this thread is about dating attractive women/relationship advice about someone they might find attractive. I don't know a single guy who in his right mind says..oh man she's sooo cool, so smart, i really want to date her, but she's butt ugly. I don't mind...and you know what, I'm having so much difficulty trying to get her attracted to me. So you know what? I'll ask around how to attract ugly women. LOL

men care a lot about such superficiality. Its just biologically evolutionarily ingrained in us. Those are the cold hard facts.

So yea, thanks for your advice...but really...its not particularly helpful when the thread poster is talking about DATING. or, as you would refer to...SINGLE people..lol. And dont tell me that every guys intention of dating in medical school is to marry.

I can say for one, that I am incredibly concerned about getting married prior to beginning residency especially if I want to do surgery. Now if you have good advice about how to make that last while doing a neurosurgical/plastics/ortho residency then please, do part with your advice.
 
I think part of the problem is as much as guys don't understand girls.... girls really don't understand guys either. Which really blows guys mind bc we really aren't that hard to figure out.

I hear girls all the time making comments about some guy doing this or that...trying to put girl like thoughts into a guys action. It doesn't work like that. Guys don't act the same as girls. When people joke that a lot of guys actions towards girls is directed at getting laid.... it is said bc it is true a lot of the times.

Most guys don't go looking for marriage. (Yet, most unmarried girls in their mid20s are thinking... I need to get married now) Guys consider looks very high on the list (Girls value it, but not as much). Yet, it isn't the same type of looks girls seem to value. Girls, i know, seem to value "style" like what people wear and such. Guys value the girl looks for what she is... an ugly girl in whatever a nice dress is... is an ugly girl in a nice dress. A pretty girl in a sweatsuit is still a pretty girl. That is why all those clothes, shoes, and crap is a total waste of money... guys for the most part don't care at all. It is done to impress other women which is pointless unless she is a lesbian. jk :) It has value I guess as guys try to impress other guys at sports or whatever.

Getting an ugly girl is super easy...they usually don't get asked out much at all if ever. So they are super ready to say yes.

Getting a attractive girl is not easy... they get asked out all the time. They are real picky with their saying yes.


Anyway, this is the thoughts of a guy that has seen a lot of stuff, and been like wow... he/she really just did/said that.
 
I think part of the problem is as much as guys don't understand girls.... girls really don't understand guys either. Which really blows guys mind bc we really aren't that hard to figure out.

I hear girls all the time making comments about some guy doing this or that...trying to put girl like thoughts into a guys action. It doesn't work like that. Guys don't act the same as girls. When people joke that a lot of guys actions towards girls is directed at getting laid.... it is said bc it is true a lot of the times.

Most guys don't go looking for marriage. (Yet, most unmarried girls in their mid20s are thinking... I need to get married now) Guys consider looks very high on the list (Girls value it, but not as much). Yet, it isn't the same type of looks girls seem to value. Girls, i know, seem to value "style" like what people wear and such. Guys value the girl looks for what she is... an ugly girl in whatever a nice dress is... is an ugly girl in a nice dress. A pretty girl in a sweatsuit is still a pretty girl. That is why all those clothes, shoes, and crap is a total waste of money... guys for the most part don't care at all. It is done to impress other women which is pointless unless she is a lesbian. jk :) It has value I guess as guys try to impress other guys at sports or whatever.

Getting an ugly girl is super easy...they usually don't get asked out much at all if ever. So they are super ready to say yes.

Getting a attractive girl is not easy... they get asked out all the time. They are real picky with their saying yes.


Anyway, this is the thoughts of a guy that has seen a lot of stuff, and been like wow... he/she really just did/said that.

Haha, you've basically agreed with everything I just said....in fact, the same exact things but with different wording...most of the women posters on here are just in shock at what I've said and/or other posts. But its mostly a reality.
 
Yea, I guess that is my point. Women don't understand guys. Even though most think they do. Guys know they don't understand women!

A girl I know was telling me how she helped a friend figure out this guy because she was great at reading people. I will bet money that she was wrong or he is gay because a straight guy would never have wasted the time, energy, and money for that purpose. Yet, to a girl... it seemed reasonable as I could have seen a girl doing that in the guys place. (I know the guy and I am going to be proven right as time goes on)

Guys don't want friends that are girls. What I mean by that is this.... Guys don't start talking to a girl thinking... I would love to be friends with her. Guys end up friends with girls because they failed, they meet them through someone else, or some meeting was forced (aka class or work). We value those friendships, but we never really went out seeking it.

A girl I know who is 24 and not married... wanted to marry this guy after dating one time and talking on the phone for about a week. She told me he said he was ready and wanting to get married. I tried to tell her (I should have just let it go) that I think he was more likely just wanting her to put out vs actually get married. (Southern girls seem to like to think they are going to marry the guy before sleeping with them). Well guess what it ended without marriage. She said he didn't want to rush things (She didn't sleep with him) was the reason it ended. I think the real reason is he didn't get what he wanted fast enough and moved on to easier prey. *** Note some people do get married quickly and it works, but I would say most of the time it is a guy pushing the right buttons on a girl that wants marriage really bad.***

Yet, I have talked to a lot of girls that do seem to want to meet guys and just be friends... that is their goal. Which drives guys crazy because we can't seem to understand this when it is happening. (maybe it is our pride in thinking we are the man).

I think a guy's goal should be trying to learn to read between the lines with girls so they can avoid a lot of fights/problems... stupid example.. .she asks are you hungry... means she wants to eat now. You know you aren't going to understand everything, but make some effort if you care about her. If you don't care, then do it so you know what buttons to push. That is my advice.
 
Almost funny, yet strangely pathetic - relationship advice from a bunch of single guys...

I'm a happily married woman. We've been together for 15 years. We have a very good balance of power in our relationship. I dated spineless guys before him, and I was unhappy. I can't imagine a self-confident guy being truly happy in a relationship where the woman lets him walk all over her. Ick. You don't both have to be type A overachievers (although it is ok if you are, so long as you are willing to compromise in order to achieve important mutual goals) but one party should not have the majority of the power in a good relationship.

Believe me, NOTHING leads to divorce faster than a guy on a power trip, thinking that woman are money grubbing ****** (Talking about ex-hubby?). She will eventually get fed up with your insecurity and leave with 50% of your assets and custody of your kids. Not because she was a gold digger to begin with, but because you didn't treat her like an equal partner in your marriage, your career and your life.

:laugh:Married chick thinkssheknowsitall. I would love to befriend your husband, and listen to his complaints.

A couple of lessons by Sindadel for those reading this thread:

1) You are always single, unless you sign papers.
2) People who are not married (or better to say "not divorced" based on current statistics) are not qualified to give relationship advice.
3) NOTHING leads to divorce faster than a guy on a power trip, thinking that woman are money grubbing ******. If you don't believe this, ask Sindadel about her ex-hubby.
4) People who talk about sad relationship facts are to be labeled "misogynistc".
 
You guys are making big generalizations here. Not all women are alike. If you don't like one type, why make yourself miserable and stay with her by trying to "push all the right buttons"? Again, some of the things you say sound very callow. You're either lacking in age or in experience. What you describe is Freshman relationships. I know a couple of guys who stay in this mindset into their 30s and beyond and many of these people either never get married or their marriage fails. I know a guy like that right now who has an amazing wife (have no idea why he even got married, but she married him partially for citizenship purposes) and she is now going to leave him. And you know what? He doesn't even see what is happening. All he cared about is upgrading the parts on his car or partying. He is really f-ed up because I know he will never have an opportunity like this again. He was lucky this time because of the circumstances and soon enough he will be back to his loser status and loser relationships.

The negative aspects described here about women are true, but you are forgetting two very important factors: age and personality. You may very well be correct about younger women, like in their mid 20s or younger. However, when it comes to older women, most are not like that. They know what they want, are confident in themselves, and rarely use euphemisms to convey something else while meaning another idea. Maybe this is why I have never been able to date anyone near my age group. At the same time, realize that you yourself are likely pretty immature. And just because you want it, doesn't mean that an older woman is going to want to date you. That is why you are "stuck" with the type of women that make you push all the right buttons. Ever think about that? You can compare that to a college graduate to HS freshman...

What a waste of time trying to hang around a woman you don't care about by making every effort to make it seem that you do. Besides wasting time, you are picking up pretty bad habits which will likely become inveterate down the road and prevent you from enjoying a real relationship.

I have met a few younger women who are attractive and intelligent. They are usually single too. Why? Because most guys in college are like you and into all these games. When they see someone smart, intelligent, and quiet, they are too intimidated to approach and at best try to justify their fear that "it would be too much work and probably not end up in anything worthwhile." Anything worthwhile takes serious effort. If you have a gf simply because you played the game right, I can have her too while she is dating you by playing the same game but adding a few extra things like looks and confidence. When I look at someone to date, I ask myself how easy would it be for her to agree to date the schmuck seating next to me in class. If the answer is a matter of a mere game, I forgo it - not worth my time. You guys obviously are not in this stage. You're more like "how easy will it be for Willy to meet Sally." Freshman:laugh:
 
I have read the whole thread, thanks very much. I don't really have the inclination to pick through everyone's posts in order to avoid offending those who have given thoughtful (as opposed to misogynistic) relationship advice.

My post was mainly directed at Mr. "Seize the Power" although there are many others who agreed with him.

Finally, I hate to break it to ya, but most people consider you single when you are dating. If you're married/living together not as students/have children together, that changes. If you don't want to take relationship advice from a long-termer, hurrah for you. Personally. I pay careful attention when someone further along a path I'm interested in comments.

As for flaming? Seriously, this is a 7 page thread with 35000 views - get over it.

I'm the "Seize the Power" guy:D! Yeah, I say seize the power before the other side seizes it. My kind of "seizing the power" is directed toward the good of the relationship, and it always works. You have no idea about my current and ex girlfriends. They all have enjoyed my company and loved my having some extra power. My comments are directed toward folks who are looking to date someone in school. A woman who has been married for 15 years would obviously not want her man to have any extra power. Neither you are the subject of this thread, nor your advice is relevant. The girls I've been dating all my life since I was 14, love to have a man who has that upper hand in the relationship.
Have you ever heard a girl get in your bed, and tell you how the other guy was "disgusting, because he was just too nice". I agree that women in their 50's love equal power, and a super nice guy, but if you play that game with a girl in 20's, she will simply get bored and run away. YOu gotta keep some challenge in the relationship, and that is brought in by having some extra power. Now when I say power, it brings in a huge negative connotation, and you guys go ballistic.
By the way, Misogyny is hatred or strong prejudice against women. I don't have any hatred against women. I just use my previous dating experience (I didn't get married with my first date) to improve my current and future relationships, and I know that "having equal power" is such a beautiful concept, but I also know that such thing does not exist in a relationship. On the other hand, girls usually love the guy to have some extra power; therefore, I voluntarily confiscate that extra tidbit:laugh: for the sake of my girl;)
 
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Excelsius, I would guess you are older than most here. It is very true that people's thoughts change with age. It is also true that everyone isn't the same. I don't think anyone thinks there is a checklist of do this and your relationship life is going to be great. It is work and learning about the other person. I think our point is that guys and girls are different. Depending on someones relationship goals, guys and girls do different things. Some married woman just trashed a bunch of single guys, who aren't looking for marriage, because they basically aren't looking for that type of relationship. Just a big generalization most girls want that type of relationship a lot sooner than guys do. She viewed that as the goal and was likely wrong for a lot of guys making post in the thread.

I am older and would possible consider that type of relationship. Yet, I am not so old as I don't remember what it was like to be 22-23 and just wanting to date/have fun. I do agree that if you are looking for that serious relationship, then you need to skip over game playing girls. It has been my experience though a lot of times... girls don't know they are involved in playing a game.

 
I know a couple of guys who stay in this mindset into their 30s and beyond and many of these people either never get married or their marriage fails. I know a guy like that right now who has an amazing wife (have no idea why he even got married, but she married him partially for citizenship purposes) and she is now going to leave him. And you know what? He doesn't even see what is happening. All he cared about is upgrading the parts on his car or partying. He is really f-ed up because I know he will never have an opportunity like this again. He was lucky this time because of the circumstances and soon enough he will be back to his loser status and loser relationships.

The negative aspects described here about women are true, but you are forgetting two very important factors: age and personality. You may very well be correct about younger women, like in their mid 20s or younger. However, when it comes to older women, most are not like that. They know what they want, are confident in themselves, and rarely use euphemisms to convey something else while meaning another idea. Maybe this is why I have never been able to date anyone near my age group. At the same time, realize that you yourself are likely pretty immature. And just because you want it, doesn't mean that an older woman is going to want to date you. That is why you are "stuck" with the type of women that make you push all the right buttons. Ever think about that? You can compare that to a college graduate to HS freshman...
Let me see if I'm getting this right. So the guy was lucky this time, because the girl was looking for citizenship, and now it is his fault that the citizen is trying to leave him once the mission is accomplished. What a luck to have someone marry you for your citizenship, and what a disaster to lose such a beautiful person. Sounds like a typical blame on the guy brought to us by a girl, although I know Excelsius is a guy. Man, don't you see the problem in this relationship? The dude should have never married the girl, if he knew she was marrying him to get citizenship. Or even if he did know, he probably knew he was getting a girl sexier that what he can ever get, and now that the business deal (citizenship in exchange for sex) is over, it's totally fine for him. I can't see how this story makes the guy such a "loser" (unless he loses half of his house, etc).
BTW, what is wrong with people who do not get married, or in other words sign papers (from a nonreligious perspective)? People on a whole spectrum of mindsets get married and divorce all the time.
 
Let me see if I'm getting this right. So the guy was lucky this time, because the girl was looking for citizenship, and now it is his fault that the citizen is trying to leave him once the mission is accomplished. What a luck to have someone marry you for your citizenship, and what a disaster to lose such a beautiful person. Sounds like a typical blame on the guy brought to us by a girl, although I know Excelsius is a guy. Man, don't you see the problem in this relationship? The dude should have never married the girl, if he knew she was marrying him to get citizenship. Or even if he did know, he probably knew he was getting a girl sexier that what he can ever get, and now that the business deal (citizenship in exchange for sex) is over, it's totally fine for him. I can't see how this story makes the guy such a "loser" (unless he loses half of his house, etc).
BTW, what is wrong with people who do not get married, or in other words sign papers (from a nonreligious perspective)? People on a whole spectrum of mindsets get married and divorce all the time.

I didn't disclose many details and you misunderstood. I'd think it would be obvious that I wouldn't bring up an example where the purpose of marriage was citizenship. Such marriages serve no purpose and are wrong. Anyway, I can elaborate a little as this is not the case here. The girl was not from some third world country. She is from Germany and was not crazy about coming here. What happened is that they met in Germany. He had to come back to the States, but because of immigration laws, she could not come back with him to continue the relationship unless they were married. So I think she agreed to marry him to give the relationship a chance - there was no other way. Had they both been in USA, staying together wouldn't be an issue and I am sure she would never marry someone like him. She did love him, but she didn't have enough time to discover who he is, which couldn't be done better than in his own jungle, which is USA. So yes, the guy is DAMN lucky and he f-ed up. Something like this won't happen to him again. And oh yeah, she doesn't have her status yet. She never said she is marrying to get a citizenship, but everyone is so surprised that someone like her would marry him that they believe she must have done it at least in part to come to the States. I personally think it is more complicated than a simple case of citizenship.

Who said marriage means much? It is just a piece of paper. I have said in my previous posts that marriage is just a legality that has been adopted by the society. A piece of paper. Nothing more. If you need to put a ring on your SO's finger to claim her, then it's not going to last with or without the piece of metal. It is the same thing with playing games to keep your SO by your side. Maybe you can see the equivalence here. At least with marriage you get hospital visitation rights and tax breaks.
 
You guys are making big generalizations here. Not all women are alike. If you don't like one type, why make yourself miserable and stay with her by trying to "push all the right buttons"? Again, some of the things you say sound very callow. You're either lacking in age or in experience. What you describe is Freshman relationships. I know a couple of guys who stay in this mindset into their 30s and beyond and many of these people either never get married or their marriage fails. I know a guy like that right now who has an amazing wife (have no idea why he even got married, but she married him partially for citizenship purposes) and she is now going to leave him. And you know what? He doesn't even see what is happening. All he cared about is upgrading the parts on his car or partying. He is really f-ed up because I know he will never have an opportunity like this again. He was lucky this time because of the circumstances and soon enough he will be back to his loser status and loser relationships.

The negative aspects described here about women are true, but you are forgetting two very important factors: age and personality. You may very well be correct about younger women, like in their mid 20s or younger. However, when it comes to older women, most are not like that. They know what they want, are confident in themselves, and rarely use euphemisms to convey something else while meaning another idea. Maybe this is why I have never been able to date anyone near my age group. At the same time, realize that you yourself are likely pretty immature. And just because you want it, doesn't mean that an older woman is going to want to date you. That is why you are "stuck" with the type of women that make you push all the right buttons. Ever think about that? You can compare that to a college graduate to HS freshman...

What a waste of time trying to hang around a woman you don't care about by making every effort to make it seem that you do. Besides wasting time, you are picking up pretty bad habits which will likely become inveterate down the road and prevent you from enjoying a real relationship.

I have met a few younger women who are attractive and intelligent. They are usually single too. Why? Because most guys in college are like you and into all these games. When they see someone smart, intelligent, and quiet, they are too intimidated to approach and at best try to justify their fear that "it would be too much work and probably not end up in anything worthwhile." Anything worthwhile takes serious effort. If you have a gf simply because you played the game right, I can have her too while she is dating you by playing the same game but adding a few extra things like looks and confidence. When I look at someone to date, I ask myself how easy would it be for her to agree to date the schmuck seating next to me in class. If the answer is a matter of a mere game, I forgo it - not worth my time. You guys obviously are not in this stage. You're more like "how easy will it be for Willy to meet Sally." Freshman:laugh:

I have no idea if you are referring to me when you say 'guys' but I can't emphasize how much I hate generalizations.

I have never said that playing the game is a good way to go about it...in fact I specifically said its the wrong idea.

I also don't think pushing buttons with the intention of getting laid is a good idea. I have a lot of experience but I am only 23...does that mean that whatever I know applies to people my age? maybe...but then again I've hooked up with older women in their 30s...are they insecure/fresh out of a relationship? maybe, I dont know, I never dated them...but I can say that whatever I have done works just great for me.

I too don't like flaky girls, which is why I dont like to pine over a single girl. I never know who she may be, what she may be doing etc. I don't meet women with the specific interest of dating....I meet women because I enjoy their company and I meet several because I know that if I get caught up with one girl because I end up 'liking' her I'll never know for sure if I like her for who she is or because I havn't met others. I also don't endorse taking advantage of a girl or playing some sort of power game for the sake of dating...I follow rules that apply for me in life in general.

And because of that, that self confidence I have, it generally works for me when it comes to relationships. I don't manufacture it, I dont try and create power plays and all that BS. I live my life the way I want to and women see that. If you have a problem with that I can't help you. All I can say is that I'm not a d!ck, and I dont purposefully try to assert myself with others. Why? Because that means I would have to go out of my way to impress someone and thats just not who I am.

There is no way in hell a guy is going to date a girl without putting the effort to go meet that girl. It just doesnt work that way. and 9 times out of 10 within the first 10 seconds of meeting that chic she's going to know that you're doing it cuz you're interested in her. The truly succesful guys who date who they want to, can because they have that self confidence of I dont care if we date, but I want to meet you because you seem 'interesting' attitude.

About older women...look man no one here cares about older women in their late 20s and 30s. Most of them want to get married...the one's who don't are either ugly or weird. Most of the really attractive women I know who are over the age of 27 are already married....I know a few hot chics who aren't but their more interested in casual hookups and short term relationships. Some are really damaged goods. For all I know they're too scared/messed up to commit.

FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME most guys who are asking for advice about dating women are asking advice for the younger crowd.

Think about it, if you're talking about older women...chances are they're interested in men their age or older. Usually taht means late 20s and 30s. Thats an age when most of us are also looking to get married, settle down have kids etc. I'm not referring to that crowd...seriously, if you need help then, then you've got more issues than just getting married.

Also, why do you keep talking about older women? Most kids going into medical school are in their 20s. And nobody goes in with the intent of marrying the first guy/girl they're dating. Everyone should and mostly goes in with an open mind and satisfaction with who they are with usually. If it works out, they get married...usually in the late 20s. Very few people get married at such an early stage.

Please don't generalize about everyone here...it seems that you guys post haphazardly and think that somehow your saying things that are absolutely true in every respect and then bemoan that we are all generalizing.

preaching is very nice...but it does little when your advice is falling to deaf ears because it doesnt apply to the crowd.
 
Who said marriage means much? It is just a piece of paper. I have said in my previous posts that marriage is just a legality that has been adopted by the society. A piece of paper. Nothing more. If you need to put a ring on your SO's finger to claim her, then it's not going to last with or without the piece of metal. It is the same thing with playing games to keep your SO by your side. Maybe you can see the equivalence here. At least with marriage you get hospital visitation rights and tax breaks.

Wow this last post was really silly. I'm almost sure now that youre either around my age or have almost no experience with women.

Really dude, people get married because its a big event in their life. Weddings are a great way to bring two people together and gives each other a great opportunity to bring their respective families together, etc.

marriage is more than a paper. Some people get married just for money, randomly a la vegas etc. And sure, then those marriages are just on paper.
But its definately something more than that...everytime I go to a wedding in my family I can assure you that it was because both were really interested in each other and wanted a strong relationship.

Most people don't put a ring on a girl so they can claim her...so why you even bother bringing this up is beyond pointless. Most people propose and marry because it has romantic connotations and means a lot. It just is that way....and I don't really get why you have to talk about it like this. Because what you said really doesn't apply to the majority of future doctors. Most of us aren't d!cks who want to marry that trophy wife, throw a ring at her and try and keep her. If I was that desperate to get laid with a hot chic I'd rather just call a high end escort service.
 
Wow this last post was really silly. I'm almost sure now that youre either around my age or have almost no experience with women.

Really dude, people get married because its a big event in their life. Weddings are a great way to bring two people together and gives each other a great opportunity to bring their respective families together, etc.

marriage is more than a paper. Some people get married just for money, randomly a la vegas etc. And sure, then those marriages are just on paper.
But its definately something more than that...everytime I go to a wedding in my family I can assure you that it was because both were really interested in each other and wanted a strong relationship.

Most people don't put a ring on a girl so they can claim her...so why you even bother bringing this up is beyond pointless. Most people propose and marry because it has romantic connotations and means a lot. It just is that way....and I don't really get why you have to talk about it like this. Because what you said really doesn't apply to the majority of future doctors. Most of us aren't d!cks who want to marry that trophy wife, throw a ring at her and try and keep her. If I was that desperate to get laid with a hot chic I'd rather just call a high end escort service.

I totally agree with Excelsius on his last post, and think that your post is the silly one, with all due respect. Marriage is just about signing papers, mostly for the good of the wife. Generally, Women lose their sexual appeal ,their most recognized characteristic from a male's point of view, past the age of 26,27. That's usually when they want to get married and lock it in. Men, on the other hand, get more and more money and power, their most recognized characteristic from a female's point of view, when they age. Therefore, men are not usually in a hurry to get married, unless you are that guy who wants to have 20 year old kids when he is 45. Note that I'm saying GENERALLY.
Most couples wouldn't get married, if the guy had an option of keeping that woman without signing the papers. And btw, I don't blame anything on girls for this. Generally speaking, It's again a matter of one having more power to implement his/her will. The guy wants the girl, and the girl wants the guy + papers signed. The guy knows his power is not beyond escaping the signature, so he gives up [nothing wrong with this, it's like settling a deal]. However, many guys would not settle such a deal, if they had the means to evade it.

Here is a scenario:
Jessica says, "listen John, why don't we just live together without getting married?"
What do you think the guy would say?
A: What? Are you crazy? change your mind, or we're breaking up tomorrow
B: Ohh no sweetheart, I believe we should get married to move our relationship to the next step
C: HELL YEAH! I love that idea.

Anyone who thinks either A or B is the answer, needs some serious reconsideration. Now, switch the guy and the girl in this conversation, and the answer will most probably be A.
 
I totally agree with Excelsius on his last post, and think that your post is the silly one, with all due respect. Marriage is just about signing papers, mostly for the good of the wife. Generally, Women lose their sexual appeal ,their most recognized characteristic from a male's point of view, past the age of 26,27. That's usually when they want to get married and lock it in. Men, on the other hand, get more and more money and power, their most recognized characteristic from a female's point of view, when they age. Therefore, men are not usually in a hurry to get married, unless you are that guy who wants to have 20 year old kids when he is 45. Note that I'm saying GENERALLY.
Most couples wouldn't get married, if the guy had an option of keeping that woman without signing the papers. And btw, I don't blame anything on girls for this. Generally speaking, It's again a matter of one having more power to implement his/her will. The guy wants the girl, and the girl wants the guy + papers signed. The guy knows his power is not beyond escaping the signature, so he gives up [nothing wrong with this, it's like settling a deal]. However, many guys would not settle such a deal, if they had the means to evade it.

Here is a scenario:
Jessica says, "listen John, why don't we just live together without getting married?"
What do you think the guy would say?
A: What? Are you crazy? change your mind, or we're breaking up tomorrow
B: Ohh no sweetheart, I believe we should get married to move our relationship to the next step
C: HELL YEAH! I love that idea.

Anyone who thinks either A or B is the answer, needs some serious reconsideration. Now, switch the guy and the girl in this conversation, and the answer will most probably be A.

dude....that sounds ridiculous. Maybe from an 18 year olds perspective it sounds legit...but i guarantee you take a 100 random guys between 28 and 35 and ask them if they want to marry and the vast majority will say yes. Those who don't...I'll bet the majority won't say yes because of financial considerations.

Seriously man....you sound really really silly here. Think about it...are most guys really desperate to keep that one girl so they're willing to spend the rest of their life(potentially) with her?

no offense but what you said sounds kinda puerile. I mean....almost all the guys I know past 26 say they wanted to get married. And these guys are my friends so its fair to say we have honest conversations. Not one of them can be considered 'unmanly', ugly, or even emo.

Its just how it is.

Do you really think that the vast majority of NFL players decide to get married because they're desperate for their girlfriends? These guys can get what they want when they want. Do you really think Tom Brady got married because he's desperate? Because marriage is a piece of paper? Tom brady is worth 200 million...his wife is worth 150 million alone. They did not marry each other for money considerations.

There are a lot of guys, I'd say majority of guys who want to get married once they get to around 30.

Dude...seriously...stop. drop. and think.
 
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And while I'm proud to say that I have no issues with women, i can definately also say that I would like to get married one day...mostly because I want children and a good family.

Life is short, and as you get older getting laid becomes less important for most men. Sex is important but trying to score with every girl you can becomes less an issue for most of us. This isn't some ignorant/naive/idealistic thought.

The cold hard fact of the matter is that life is short and to not have someone you can trust and have company with for large swaths of your life can really leave you depressed. That last part is actually fact...as studies show that men between ages 40-60 who are unmarried are more depressed than those who are. The study took into consideration socio-economic factors as well as sexuality I'm pretty sure the study ignored men who had recently lost a loved one as well. It was a while back so dont quote me on it.
 
dude....that sounds ridiculous. Maybe from an 18 year olds perspective it sounds legit...but i guarantee you take a 100 random guys between 28 and 35 and ask them if they want to marry and the vast majority will say yes. Those who don't...I'll bet the majority won't say yes because of financial considerations.

Seriously man....you sound really really silly here. Think about it...are most guys really desperate to keep that one girl so they're willing to spend the rest of their life(potentially) with her?

no offense but what you said sounds kinda puerile. I mean....almost all the guys I know past 26 say they wanted to get married. And these guys are my friends so its fair to say we have honest conversations. Not one of them can be considered 'unmanly', ugly, or even emo.

Its just how it is.

Do you really think that the vast majority of NFL players decide to get married because they're desperate for their girlfriends? These guys can get what they want when they want. Do you really think Tom Brady got married because he's desperate? Because marriage is a piece of paper? Tom brady is worth 200 million...his wife is worth 150 million alone. They did not marry each other for money considerations.

There are a lot of guys, I'd say majority of guys who want to get married once they get to around 30.

Dude...seriously...stop. drop. and think.

This has to be one of the worst series of arguments I've ever seen. Ad populum, for one - I don't give a damn what the "vast majority" of guys say. I am of the opinion that they don't know what the hell they're talking about. For one, the "vast majority" of those will be motivated by religious or other non-rational factors.
 
And while I'm proud to say that I have no issues with women, i can definately also say that I would like to get married one day...mostly because I want children and a good family.

Life is short, and as you get older getting laid becomes less important for most men. Sex is important but trying to score with every girl you can becomes less an issue for most of us. This isn't some ignorant/naive/idealistic thought.

The cold hard fact of the matter is that life is short and to not have someone you can trust and have company with for large swaths of your life can really leave you depressed. That last part is actually fact...as studies show that men between ages 40-60 who are unmarried are more depressed than those who are. The study took into consideration socio-economic factors as well as sexuality I'm pretty sure the study ignored men who had recently lost a loved one as well. It was a while back so dont quote me on it.

It is obvious that this conversation isn't getting anywhere. Some of the things that you and others say are fine, but most are not. You seem to think that anyone beyond 27 who is not married is either ugly or has issues (amazing), yet you go on to say that you date older women. So I guess they would fall in that category as well? I would highly doubt any regular older women would put up with immaturity. A one night stand? Perhaps. A relationship? Hell no! I don't think you are being truthful here about dating older women.

And yes, I am not that much older - only by a year or two. But as I mentioned before, besides age you got 1.Experience and 2.Personality. For some guys 21=35+. Women mature more quickly. That's part of the answer to the disconnect.

I don't really have much else to add. You have a lot to learn yet. I just had to mention this though: you misspelled the word definately more than twice in two different posts. The proper spelling is "definitely." Definitely.:smuggrin:
 
It is obvious that this conversation isn't getting anywhere. Some of the things that you and others say are fine, but most are not. You seem to think that anyone beyond 27 who is not married is either ugly or has issues (amazing), yet you go on to say that you date older women. So I guess they would fall in that category as well? I would highly doubt any regular older women would put up with immaturity. A one night stand? Perhaps. A relationship? Hell no! I don't think you are being truthful here about dating older women.

And yes, I am not that much older - only by a year or two. But as I mentioned before, besides age you got 1.Experience and 2.Personality. For some guys 21=35+. Women mature more quickly. That's part of the answer to the disconnect.

I don't really have much else to add. You have a lot to learn yet. I just had to mention this though: you misspelled the word definately more than twice in two different posts. The proper spelling is "definitely." Definitely.:smuggrin:

Yea so I suck at spelling....but that does not give you the right to skewer what I said.

I SPECIFICALLY stated that I have hooked up with older women but NEVER DATED THEM...and that may be why I dont really UNDERSTAND them.

And dude...if you got personality great. I'm happy for you. But seriously...if you really do, there's no need for you to bleat as loud as you can how much better you think you are.

And please, your 2 years older than me and would love to tell me how I have a lot more to learn? Yea right...I'm not going to attack your character, but i have to say, your 'moral outrage' against what I have to say is ridiculous.
 
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Yea so I suck at spelling....but that does not give you the right to skewer what I said.

I SPECIFICALLY stated that I have hooked up with older women but NEVER DATED THEM...and that may be why I dont really UNDERSTAND them.

Fair enough. Now I am sure you can make this connection: since you don't have experience with a large group of women (this is a specific type that applies to both older and some younger women), you can admit that when you talk about women, you are not really talking about women. You are talking about the gfs that you have personally had. This is why your advice about approaching women is qualified to only certain circumstances. Perhaps you can agree to this.;)

I am not any better. I was just lucky to have more experience. All I am saying is that your advice doesn't apply to the majority. That doesn't make me any better than you are. We are just different. And so are a lot of other people out there, both male and female.
 
This has to be one of the worst series of arguments I've ever seen. Ad populum, for one - I don't give a damn what the "vast majority" of guys say. I am of the opinion that they don't know what the hell they're talking about. For one, the "vast majority" of those will be motivated by religious or other non-rational factors.

yes brilliant....all these guys must be marrying for religious reason!!! Of course Tom Brady is a religious evangelist. I forgot how often he went to Church. No wait, most NFL players don't even believe in infidelity. Heck, they've only been with one girl all their life!

I completely forgot.


I can't stand it when people use latin phrases for no reason. Ad populim? Thanks but that was the whole point of what I wrote...what the majority of people do because the previous poster meant to argue that majority of men are not interested in marriage at a later age...

Just brilliant on your part, just brilliant.
 
Fair enough. Now I am sure you can make this connection: since you don't have experience with a large group of women (this is a specific type that applies to both older and some younger women), you can admit that when you talk about women, you are not really talking about women. You are talking about the gfs that you have personally had. This is why your advice about approaching women is qualified to only certain circumstances. Perhaps you can agree to this.;)


NO and yes...No because its based of a large group of fellow male peers from my college days as well as my self. i certainly can't count it in the hundreds or thousands...but if my college is a reflection of college level intelligent/career oriented/attractive(sometimes) young females throughout the nation I don't see why it can only apply to my school or only me.

Further, I have specifically said that its a reflection of younger people and not older women. I'm not sure why there's this absolute rush to discuss what older women want....that was neither part of my discussion nor the main interest of the poster/posters...most people are worried about/interested in women who are our age.

Furthermore, I've had quite a good success with women that I don't get why theres' this hoopla about how I must be soooo immature/too young/ignorant/naive....it just doesnt make sense. If you guys are so sure I'm wrong, why not describe what you do?
 
Just wondering, is there anyone here in their early twenties who finds the age-old notion of marriage (and kids and suburbs) repulsive, at least for the time being? At this point in my life at least, I just want to get laid as frequently as possible. Come on guys, I know I'm not the only one.

When I hear talk about such things as how people are "supposed" to end up in marriage and all that, I just wonder sometimes about how marriage (and kids and suburbs) got to be the natural course of life, and I question its validity as such.

Sometimes I think I'm weird for having these naughty, filthy thoughts, but then I'm reminded of that statistic about how like 60% or more of marriages end in divorce and wonder about what is really right. (And there are a number of people in society who would rather die than get a divorce, so I suspect that that percentage would be a lot higher if divorce was just as acceptable as marriage.) What's up with that?

To me, the divorce rate suggests that perhaps people are somehow pressured into marriage. Maybe they feel they should get married now while they're still physically attractive so they can at least get laid by their legally declared lovers at age 60 when they might not be so appealing to anyone else. Maybe it's that they feel they'd be friendless and lonely at 60 if not for a spouse. Maybe it's just the societal expectation. I think such pressures lead people to hastily plunge into marriage without having fully vetted their partners and thus without being wholeheartedly committed to the eternal binding of marriage. In this case, problems that later arise become enough to unseat one's already suboptimal devotion to another.

I guess I'm not fundamentally opposed to the romanticized concept of marriage: finding someone who is so incredible that you'd actually be willing to abandon bachelorhood and spend the rest of your life with just that one person. It's just that that person would have to be pretty hot pickings, and it seems that in at least 60% of marriages, this isn't the case.

Finding such a great person may be possible, but perhaps it is impractical. Maybe people shouldn't be so quick to "settle." Maybe people shouldn't be so intent on getting married for marriage-sake in the first place.

Well, I dunno, maybe I am just weird. Hopefully, I'll snap out of it by age 27, just in time to get back on track: fall in love by 28, get married by 29, and have a kid, a dog, a house and a white fence by 30.
 
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Just wondering, is there anyone here in their early twenties who finds the age-old notion of marriage (and kids and suburbs) repulsive, at least for the time being? At this point in my life at least, I just want to get laid as frequently as possible. Come on guys, I know I’m not the only one.

When I hear talk about such things as how people are “supposed” to end up in marriage and all that, I just wonder sometimes about how marriage (and kids and suburbs) got to be the natural course of life, and I question its validity as such.

Sometimes I think I’m weird for having these naughty, filthy thoughts, but then I’m reminded of that statistic about how like 60% or more of marriages end in divorce and wonder about what is really right. (And there are a number of people in society who would rather die than get a divorce, so I suspect that that percentage would be a lot higher if divorce was just as acceptable as marriage.) What’s up with that?

To me, the divorce rate suggests that perhaps people are somehow pressured into marriage. Maybe they feel they should get married now while they're still physically attractive so they can still get laid at 60 when they're not such sex magnets. Maybe it's that they feel they'd be friendless and lonely at 60 if not for a spouse. Maybe it's just the societal expectation. I think such pressures lead people to plunge into marriage without having fully vetted their partners and thus without being wholeheartedly committed to the eternal binding of marriage. In this case, problems that later arise become enough to unseat one’s already suboptimal devotion to another.

I guess I’m not fundamentally opposed to the romanticized concept of marriage: finding someone who is so incredible that you’d actually be willing to abandon bachelorhood and spend the rest of your life with just that one person. It’s just that that person would have to be pretty hot pickings, and it seems that in at least 60% of marriages, this isn’t the case.

Finding such a great person may be possible, but perhaps it is impractical. Maybe people shouldn’t be so quick to “settle.” Maybe people shouldn’t be so intent on getting married for marriage-sake in the first place.

Well, I dunno, maybe I am just weird. Hopefully, I’ll snap out of it by age 27, just in time to get back on track: fall in love by 28, get married by 29, and have a kid, a dog, a house and a white fence by 30.

I actually agree with you wholeheartedly.

However, I do want to have kids at somepoint and do plan on getting married. Most likely I'll be near 40 when I do.

the divorce rate statistic you mention is very jmisleading. The data is mostly based on individuals who grew up between the 40s and 60s. The vast majority of those born in the 80s and above have yet to marry and the percentage of the 70s who are married is similarly very low. indeed...our generation is waiting much longer precisely because of what we have collectively seen as a failing family because our parents generation married so early.

Indeed divorce data on those couples who are in the late 20s and early 30s is fairly low compared to the similar age groups of couples back in the 80s/90s. I have a feeling that as we wait and see we'll notice that the divorce rates will be lower.

I'm in total agreement that I want to get laid as often as possible and not have to worry about marriage and stuff...I'm way to horny and probably will be for the next 10 years or so.
 
Men, on the other hand, get more and more money and power, their most recognized characteristic from a female's point of view, when they age.

I must say, at this point in my life, I don't think money and power really attract me. I'm much more likely to gravitate towards looks and other silly things.

For one, the "vast majority" of those will be motivated by religious or other non-rational factors

Does anyone really do anything rationally? Most social institutions and customs are completely irrational. Doesn't mean they don't have power or validity.
 
yes brilliant....all these guys must be marrying for religious reason!!! Of course Tom Brady is a religious evangelist. I forgot how often he went to Church. No wait, most NFL players don't even believe in infidelity. Heck, they've only been with one girl all their life!

I completely forgot.


I can't stand it when people use latin phrases for no reason. Ad populim? Thanks but that was the whole point of what I wrote...what the majority of people do because the previous poster meant to argue that majority of men are not interested in marriage at a later age...

Just brilliant on your part, just brilliant.

Man, you're failing to realize that the celebrity examples do not apply to the life of random people like us. Tom Brady is lying his butt on $200 mills. They've got it all in this world, and will always be willing to try other things out, like getting married, no matter how silly it can be. By the way, These celebrities actually MAKE money by selling the wedding pics to the magazines, becoming more famous in the tabloid, etc... So your argument of celebrities getting married is not valid. You also forgot to bring up examples such as Phil Collin and Paul Mccartney.
 
Yea so I suck at spelling....but that does not give you the right to skewer what I said.

I SPECIFICALLY stated that I have hooked up with older women but NEVER DATED THEM...and that may be why I dont really UNDERSTAND them.

And dude...if you got personality great. I'm happy for you. But seriously...if you really do, there's no need for you to bleat as loud as you can how much better you think you are.

And please, your 2 years older than me and would love to tell me how I have a lot more to learn? Yea right...I'm not going to attack your character, but i have to say, your 'moral outrage' against what I have to say is ridiculous.

I just noticed that it says, "WillStudy4sex" under your username. Such a hot guy in the market, who assertively hooks up with women on age spectrum from 20's to 30's would "willstudy4sex"? Hmmm, ironic.
 
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Just wondering, is there anyone here in their early twenties who finds the age-old notion of marriage (and kids and suburbs) repulsive, at least for the time being? At this point in my life at least, I just want to get laid as frequently as possible. Come on guys, I know I’m not the only one.
Yes, many people, including me, do find it repulsive and of no use. I see marriage as a contract written between a man and a woman, just like other business contracts. However, there are no benefits to be reaped for the guy in a marriage in this era. You want free sex? There are plenty of women to offer it to you in the club. You want a companion for a long term relationship? You can meet beautiful educated girls in college, at work, etc, who will stick with you (without pushing you to get married), if you have some good characteristics (looks or money or personality, all of them, some of them, etc). You want someone to do the laundry, and clean up the house? Hire a house-keeper for about $100 a month. You want someone to cook? Most girls can't even cook these days (Frying eggs over easy doesn't count) Now, if you want to have kids, then get married, cause whoever breeds in this century, should be responsible for bringing the kids up properly for the sake of the society. However, I am not even interested in having kids, since I plan on enjoying my life more, when I end up graduating as a specialist in my early 30's with about 400k in debt.

When I hear talk about such things as how people are “supposed” to end up in marriage and all that, I just wonder sometimes about how marriage (and kids and suburbs) got to be the natural course of life, and I question its validity as such.

Sometimes I think I’m weird for having these naughty, filthy thoughts, but then I’m reminded of that statistic about how like 60% or more of marriages end in divorce and wonder about what is really right. (And there are a number of people in society who would rather die than get a divorce, so I suspect that that percentage would be a lot higher if divorce was just as acceptable as marriage.) What’s up with that?

To me, the divorce rate suggests that perhaps people are somehow pressured into marriage. Maybe they feel they should get married now while they're still physically attractive so they can at least get laid by their legally declared lovers at age 60 when they might not be so appealing to anyone else. Maybe it's that they feel they'd be friendless and lonely at 60 if not for a spouse. Maybe it's just the societal expectation. I think such pressures lead people to hastily plunge into marriage without having fully vetted their partners and thus without being wholeheartedly committed to the eternal binding of marriage. In this case, problems that later arise become enough to unseat one’s already suboptimal devotion to another. Yes, most guys are pressured into marriage. I brought up a scenario in a few posts above. Most guys wouldn't get married, they had the option. It's kinda like,the guy sticks with this girl for two years, and kinda falls in love with her, then she starts pushing on him to get married. Out of weakness, the guy gives up at some point, failing to realize that there are other options for him out there, and also failing to realize that saying "no" might work as well.

I guess I’m not fundamentally opposed to the romanticized concept of marriage: finding someone who is so incredible that you’d actually be willing to abandon bachelorhood and spend the rest of your life with just that one person. It’s just that that person would have to be pretty hot pickings, and it seems that in at least 60% of marriages, this isn’t the case. See, this is the tricky part. It has somehow been engraved in the society's mind that romance shall be achieved by getting married. People fail to understand that a couple can live romatically together for as long as things work out, and simply leave each other, if they can't solve their problems.

Finding such a great person may be possible, but perhaps it is impractical. Maybe people shouldn’t be so quick to “settle.” Maybe people shouldn’t be so intent on getting married for marriage-sake in the first place. IMO, there is no such thing as "sake of marriage".

Well, I dunno, maybe I am just weird. Hopefully, I’ll snap out of it by age 27, just in time to get back on track: fall in love by 28, get married by 29, and have a kid, a dog, a house and a white fence by 30.

....
 
dude....that sounds ridiculous. Maybe from an 18 year olds perspective it sounds legit...but i guarantee you take a 100 random guys between 28 and 35 and ask them if they want to marry and the vast majority will say yes. Those who don't...I'll bet the majority won't say yes because of financial considerations.

Seriously man....you sound really really silly here. Think about it...are most guys really desperate to keep that one girl so they're willing to spend the rest of their life(potentially) with her?

no offense but what you said sounds kinda puerile. I mean....almost all the guys I know past 26 say they wanted to get married. And these guys are my friends so its fair to say we have honest conversations. Not one of them can be considered 'unmanly', ugly, or even emo.

Its just how it is.

Do you really think that the vast majority of NFL players decide to get married because they're desperate for their girlfriends? These guys can get what they want when they want. Do you really think Tom Brady got married because he's desperate? Because marriage is a piece of paper? Tom brady is worth 200 million...his wife is worth 150 million alone. They did not marry each other for money considerations.

There are a lot of guys, I'd say majority of guys who want to get married once they get to around 30.

Dude...seriously...stop. drop. and think.

I said, the vast majority of guys would not get married, if they were not pushed by their girl and their craving for easier access to vagina (need more clarification?). It's a totally different issue. Do the vast majority of guys between 28 to 35 get married? yes. Would they get married, if they had the option of not doing so? NO!
Also, what the vast majority does doesn't mean it's necessarily the right thing to do. The government, media, etc always try to engrave the notion that getting married should be one of everyone's goals in their lives. WHy? because the government and businesses are making billions of dollars out of the institution of marriage, selling $20 colorful candles made of worthless paraffin to women (ever noticed a guy pick up one of those at the store?) . 75% of the money spent in the world is spent by women.GENERALLY SPEAKING, once married, women get to spend more money in the market, since they get access to their hubby's income as well (Men's average salary is about 30% higher than women's). Most people pay for a wedding ceremony. Some good deal of useless Jewelry is bought at the beginning and continuously during the years of marriage. fees are paid to the court (or other gov departments) for getting married and getting divorced. Lawyers get hired in most divorce cases. Houses are sold after divorce, where the realtors make good money. IN an exchange for hundreds of thousands of dollars spent in the economy for a single average marriage during the span of 10 years, the couple get some 10% annual tax relief on their 50k average income to be happy. It's like how people blow up their money in Vegas to get points on their rewards card. Obviously the side of the marriage with less money (the wife, generally speaking) benefits, while the other side (the hubby) becomes delusioned enough to think he is so smart to be married and save money on taxes.
 
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This is totally off topic because the whole point was supposed to be about dating...

anyway...I wrote, willstudy4sex...it makes no sense. Thats why I put it up, its silly. Don't read into it.

Dude...a lot of celebrities and rich people all do what normal people do. Getting married isn't some sort of attempt at making money or doing stupid stuff. I looked up Tom brady and their marriage wasn't even publicized...they didn't even sell their pictures. There are a lot of sports players who do that. Thats why I mentioned NFL players and not hollywood nutjobs who mostly marry because it puts them in the spotlight/helps their careers.

Your cynical view on marriage and an attempt to logically construct it as some sort of economic creation sounds sillier by the minute. There is no reason for anyone to marry for any of those reasons. While it may be attractive for the business community to 'con' all of us into thinking and believing in the romantic notions of marriage to make money out of it...married couples don't get anything out of it.

I mean the more you talk about how guys are desperate to keep that girl the more it sounds like you're just fashioning marriage the way YOU think it happens. Guys don't do it for those reasons...maybe you will, or maybe you think thats the only way you would. But most guys dont marry because thats the only way to keep a chic. I certainly won't and a lot of men, nay majority won't. Its not like women have some sort of gun to our heads to get married. I am sure there are some people who fit your bill. But there are all types of people and these folks do not represent the vast majority of the population. They really don't.

Again, you fail to explain why guys are willing to marry a women and potentially be with her for the rest of their lives. The vast majority of men do not do it for those reasons. Again, it doesnt make sense that a guy would willingly give up what he considers 'his future' just to keep a single girl.
If they really didn't like her...they just have to walk away. In fact, statistically speaking, men are usually the first to break off an engagement...

And your argument on divorce doesnt make much sense either...when someone gets divorced the house doesn't need to get sold...usually the wife or husband gets it. Also, ever hear of a pre-nup...seriously, its becoming more and more common and I really have no problem with it. Maybe some do..but come our time when we get married in 10-20 years pre-nups will be all the more common.
 
I'm getting off this marriage argument...its not what this thread is about.
 
Anyone else with any interesting insights? This thread started out great, but really took a dive starting on page 6.
 
I'm curious about everyone's opinion on my relationship situation. Obviously I'm going to make my own decision, but I was curious to know what everyone who has been in medical school for a while thinks.

Here's the situation:

I've been dating my GF since Christmas of 2008. We met in UG. She has one more semester to go, and wants to go to professional school in Virginia, but I'm going to WVU medical in the fall. She seems to think that we'll be together for 4 years during a long distance relationship while I'm in medical school. I'm not too sure of it, but am willing to give it my best shot. However, I'm not sure that I want to be worried about her/what she's doing while I'm 200 miles away in medical school.
 
I'm curious about everyone's opinion on my relationship situation. Obviously I'm going to make my own decision, but I was curious to know what everyone who has been in medical school for a while thinks.

Here's the situation:

I've been dating my GF since Christmas of 2008. We met in UG. She has one more semester to go, and wants to go to professional school in Virginia, but I'm going to WVU medical in the fall. She seems to think that we'll be together for 4 years during a long distance relationship while I'm in medical school. I'm not too sure of it, but am willing to give it my best shot. However, I'm not sure that I want to be worried about her/what she's doing while I'm 200 miles away in medical school.

I'm assuming she's applying now so you'll be together another year before she heads off, right?

I wouldn't be mad at her for wanting to go to a school away from you. You haven't been together long enough for her to be compromising her choice of schools to stay near to you. I've seen many people in this exact situation who end up growing closer at a couple--a few are engaged currently. In general, however, long-distance relationships end in medical school.

I would think about the prospect of being in a LDR for four years long and hard... if it's not for you, you need to tell her that if she goes away it will end the relationship. You could also just tell her there are no guarantees to an happy end, but you are willing to try at a LDR. It sounds like jealousy will be a problem for you, and with a short foundation to begin a LDR, and the prospect that you may have to move to Virginia for residency waiting for her to finish up... I would be hesitant about continuing.
 
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