comlex scores and specialties

[gators21]

if I do end up doing FM , and then decide to go to another specialty, wouldn't that close my doors (vs IM, which has other subspecialties?). Wouldn't it be better then to do IM and then apply to whatever specialties? I am just saying this because I have heard this in the past! Thank you very much for your input guys!!!

Ok your 408 is starting to make a little more sense. How are you a fourth year and just now figuring things like this out?
Also, how do you fall asleep during the biggest exam of your career? If you fell asleep during 1, 8 hour exam then how do you expect to get through the stress and work hours internship and residency? (serious question) You have to know that that is a pretty big red flag to a PD.
Congrats on the big jump, however no amount of explanation (especially with your reason) is going to get passed the fact that you got a 408. Thinking about doing IM and then a fellowship after is still a pretty big leap. That score is not going to get you into a good IM program, which leads to fellowships. If you want to do procedures, your option is FM (which in a lot of places can work in an ER). I'm not trying to be mean, but you need to be realistic. Don't think it will be easy to "just do IM and then go to a fellowship".

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[Pink Candy]

Ok your 408 is starting to make a little more sense. How are you a fourth year and just now figuring things like this out?
Also, how do you fall asleep during the biggest exam of your career? If you fell asleep during 1, 8 hour exam then how do you expect to get through the stress and work hours internship and residency? (serious question) You have to know that that is a pretty big red flag to a PD.
Congrats on the big jump, however no amount of explanation (especially with your reason) is going to get passed the fact that you got a 408. Thinking about doing IM and then a fellowship after is still a pretty big leap. That score is not going to get you into a good IM program, which leads to fellowships. If you want to do procedures, your option is FM (which in a lot of places can work in an ER). I'm not trying to be mean, but you need to be realistic. Don't think it will be easy to "just do IM and then go to a fellowship".

unfortunately, the school I went to gives us very little guidance with respect to rotations, internships, etc. The reason why I fell asleep is irrelevant, since I will not go into my personal problems here, and much less during an interview; prob should not have said that. I don't think it will be easy to do IM and then a fellowship, but at least is a starting point. Right now, I am more able to manage the issues that set me behind during my second year, and I feel that I am capable of achieving a high usmle 1 score. I am smart and capable, but even smart people with issues perform worse than not-so-smart people that have a clear minds. I just say this because that 408 is not a product of my knowledge or capabilities, but rather of my particular personal situation and mind set.

like I said before, since I don't have guidance from my school at all, and really don't know people that have recently graduated, I have come to you guys for advices/opinions. This doesn't mean I will do exactly what you guys tell me, but it is a great starting point, reference, and something to consider, that's all

 

[Gither]

unfortunately, the school I went to gives us very little guidance with respect to rotations, internships, etc. The reason why I fell asleep is irrelevant, since I will not go into my personal problems here, and much less during an interview; prob should not have said that. I don't think it will be easy to do IM and then a fellowship, but at least is a starting point. Right now, I am more able to manage the issues that set me behind during my second year, and I feel that I am capable of achieving a high usmle 1 score. I am smart and capable, but even smart people with issues perform worse than not-so-smart people that have a clear minds. I just say this because that 408 is not a product of my knowledge or capabilities, but rather of my particular personal situation and mind set.

like I said before, since I don't have guidance from my school at all, and really don't know people that have recently graduated, I have come to you guys for advices/opinions. This doesn't mean I will do exactly what you guys tell me, but it is a great starting point, reference, and something to consider, that's all

Just curious... are you blonde? OK now Im being an ass...

 

[Lacktherof]

Don't pay the troll toll guys

 

[gators21]

unfortunately, the school I went to gives us very little guidance with respect to rotations, internships, etc. The reason why I fell asleep is irrelevant, since I will not go into my personal problems here, and much less during an interview; prob should not have said that. I don't think it will be easy to do IM and then a fellowship, but at least is a starting point. Right now, I am more able to manage the issues that set me behind during my second year, and I feel that I am capable of achieving a high usmle 1 score. I am smart and capable, but even smart people with issues perform worse than not-so-smart people that have a clear minds. I just say this because that 408 is not a product of my knowledge or capabilities, but rather of my particular personal situation and mind set.

like I said before, since I don't have guidance from my school at all, and really don't know people that have recently graduated, I have come to you guys for advices/opinions. This doesn't mean I will do exactly what you guys tell me, but it is a great starting point, reference, and something to consider, that's all

Ok I guess this needs to be explained a little better for you. You are a fourth year. Taking the USMLE at this point is pretty much useless. You should have already applied to your programs and be going on interviews NOW. By the time you take USMLE, get your scores, update ERAS, and then hope to be interviewed is going to be way too late. Are you planning on not matching this year and waiting until next year? What are your actual plans for right now.
Also this attitude of yours is exactly what gets a lot of people in trouble. Do you think that anyone who fails the USMLE actually thinks they are going to fail and are stupid people? No, everyone thinks they are smart and better than everyone else. People also fail to match into residencies and fellowships, do they think they are going to fail? Nope.
You need to take the blinders off and actually listen to what EVERYONE is telling you.There is a time to be optimistic about your chance of doing any specialty you want. That was thrown out a long time ago when you got your 408 and waited until 4th year to consider USMLE.
And I am sorry but you not knowing the process of residency training is not the fault of your school not giving you guidance. That is your fault for not taking the effort to find out.

 

[Pink Candy]

Just curious... are you blonde? OK now Im being an ass...

No, I'm not. Hey, no problem, I knew u were an ass all along. Is very easy for ppl to be asses behind a computer or from a phone. You would not have the balls to tell me this to my face in person because I can assure you I could kick your --- and then you would go back to the computer to whine about it... I bet you I pretty much just described your personality

 

[Pink Candy]

Ok I guess this needs to be explained a little better for you. You are a fourth year. Taking the USMLE at this point is pretty much useless. You should have already applied to your programs and be going on interviews NOW. By the time you take USMLE, get your scores, update ERAS, and then hope to be interviewed is going to be way too late. Are you planning on not matching this year and waiting until next year? What are your actual plans for right now.
Also this attitude of yours is exactly what gets a lot of people in trouble. Do you think that anyone who fails the USMLE actually thinks they are going to fail and are stupid people? No, everyone thinks they are smart and better than everyone else. People also fail to match into residencies and fellowships, do they think they are going to fail? Nope.
You need to take the blinders off and actually listen to what EVERYONE is telling you.There is a time to be optimistic about your chance of doing any specialty you want. That was thrown out a long time ago when you got your 408 and waited until 4th year to consider USMLE.
And I am sorry but you not knowing the process of residency training is not the fault of your school not giving you guidance. That is your fault for not taking the effort to find out.

I know it will be difficult, but not impossible. I am not planning on matching this year. I did not say that ppl fail because they are dumb, ppl fail or do poorly (like me) for other reasons. I did pretty well during med school, and my score doesn't show it for personal reasons, not because I don't understand or know the material. I think anyone that makes it to med school has to be smart. period. I just don't buy the whole concept of doing poorly on one exam shots your possibilities forever because I personally know 2 guys that failed comlex 1, and are now ortho residents, one of them at a great program. SO, THERE IS TIME TO BE OPTIMISTIC ALWAYS!!! I surely hope that this doesn't happen to you, because even ppl with great scores and excellent resumes don't get to their desired residency.... you will remember these words next year when your turn comes. believe me!

 

[Makati2008]

I know it will be difficult, but not impossible. I am not planning on matching this year. I did not say that ppl fail because they are dumb, ppl fail or do poorly (like me) for other reasons. I did pretty well during med school, and my score doesn't show it for personal reasons, not because I don't understand or know the material. I think anyone that makes it to med school has to be smart. period. I just don't buy the whole concept of doing poorly on one exam shots your possibilities forever because I personally know 2 guys that failed comlex 1, and are now ortho residents, one of them at a great program. SO, THERE IS TIME TO BE OPTIMISTIC ALWAYS!!! I surely hope that this doesn't happen to you, because even ppl with great scores and excellent resumes don't get to their desired residency.... you will remember these words next year when your turn comes. believe me!

Can't disagree with you but you do know not matching statistically hurts you matching the next year right?

Also again taking step 1 will be worthless for the programs you mention that you want to match. No research and being a DO as well as attempting to match late are all bad signs.

 

[gators21]

I know it will be difficult, but not impossible. I am not planning on matching this year. I did not say that ppl fail because they are dumb, ppl fail or do poorly (like me) for other reasons. I did pretty well during med school, and my score doesn't show it for personal reasons, not because I don't understand or know the material. I think anyone that makes it to med school has to be smart. period. I just don't buy the whole concept of doing poorly on one exam shots your possibilities forever because I personally know 2 guys that failed comlex 1, and are now ortho residents, one of them at a great program. SO, THERE IS TIME TO BE OPTIMISTIC ALWAYS!!! I surely hope that this doesn't happen to you, because even ppl with great scores and excellent resumes don't get to their desired residency.... you will remember these words next year when your turn comes. believe me!

Well good luck to you. I truly hope you are one of the statistical oddities. Just remember that whatever you decide to shoot for, you also have to be able to live with the consequences should you not achieve it. Best of luck to you!!!!

 

[Gither]

No, I'm not. Hey, no problem, I knew u were an ass all along. Is very easy for ppl to be asses behind a computer or from a phone. You would not have the balls to tell me this to my face in person because I can assure you I could kick your --- and then you would go back to the computer to whine about it... I bet you I pretty much just described your personality

You can assure a complete stranger on an internet forum that you can kick his/her ass... right... it's so hard to take you seriously, but Im going to keep responding at the risk of being trolled this entire thread.

 

[group_theory]

Let's avoid any name callings, or insults. Stick to the topic at hand.

 

[TrimtheChute]

Here is an alternative with n=1 so keep that in mind. A neighbor of mine wanted derm, did not match out of med school into derm but into a back up - peds. During their peds residency, they did research in derm, electives in derm, made derm connections. They then applied and matched into derm after completing peds residency. I don't know if they got paid during their derm residency, but they were at least eligible to moonlight with a full license.

IMO you should at least try to match into IM, FM or TRI this cycle and use elective time to pursue your interest in derm or optho. Perhaps try to match into IM/FM at a place with derm/optho residency so you can network? Good luck!

 

[SunDevilDoc]

A little off topic here, but I am looking for any allopathic IM programs that are not only DO friendly, but interview candidates without USMLE scores. I now realize that not taking the USMLE was a terrible mistake, considering I want to get into the allopathic world.

Anyway, I've appled to 40 programs, have only 3 interviews to low-tier programs, despite COMLEX scores of 593 and 656 (albeit with no research, limited ECs) and am now trying to find places that might consider me. I only applied to California, Arizona, and Illinois programs (it's weird, I know) but now am considering any place in the country.

Does anyone have any programs they know of? Or could I be wiggin out prematurely? I realize I could just apply DO and be fine, but I'd like either an ID or Pulm/Crit fellowship and there are so few in the DO world I'd rather do allo.

 

[Trogghunter]

.

 

[Trogghunter]

Sundevil, apply in the Midwest/Texas too. They have DO friendly programs. Your steps are better than most cutoffs that I've heard of and better than any that I've seen, but IM interviews may come out all the way until November. Did you just get your step 2 back? That improvement may help get some more looks, but otherwise I wouldn't freak out, but you may want to make sure that the programs to which you applied explicitly state that they will accept usmle OR comlex

Specifically? Michigan and Ohio programs are DO friendly states, and some may be DO programs with your preferred specialty in house. But you're going to have to research the programs specifically to see, I'd say.

 

[Pink Candy]

Here is an alternative with n=1 so keep that in mind. A neighbor of mine wanted derm, did not match out of med school into derm but into a back up - peds. During their peds residency, they did research in derm, electives in derm, made derm connections. They then applied and matched into derm after completing peds residency. I don't know if they got paid during their derm residency, but they were at least eligible to moonlight with a full license.

IMO you should at least try to match into IM, FM or TRI this cycle and use elective time to pursue your interest in derm or optho. Perhaps try to match into IM/FM at a place with derm/optho residency so you can network? Good luck!

Thanks so much for your advice TrimtheChute!! I'm working toward that right now. Someone told me that my personal statement should be geared to internal medicine and then I should add what I'm interested it in the end. Is this a good advice?

Thanks so much for your input

 

[SDHB]

I have a comlex level 1 score of 617 /226 on usmle. have done research - 1 publication. I know that ACGME is out of question and applying only AOA. But have not been able to get audition rotations. The only contact I had are PD's of residency programs. I emailed some and almost none got back to me. How to do you schedule these rotations if nobody gets back to you ?
Also anyone know what kind of students match into these programs ? do you have to be from the osteopathic school associated with the program or anyone has a fair shot ?
Also is it easier to get into radiology as compared to ophthalmology given there are more spots and scores count in the radiology programs
anyone ???????

 

[StarDOc14]

For reference: http://data.aacom.org/media/DO_GME_match_2011.pdf

Refer to charts 11 and 13 for average comlex board scores per specialty from the 2011 match. This might give you a more accurate idea of what you are competitive for.

I think the most important thing (although not always what you want to hear) is to be realistic. Is it likely you are going to even get an interview (as board scores appear to be a weed out) for derm or optho or any other specialty that is highly competitive with a barely passing comlex one? No, probably not. You can apply to those programs but I wouldnt be shocked when you have to scramble. Also, ERAS for MDs have been open for a month and DO since July. If you are just now trying to figure out what to apply to you are kind of swimming upstream. I greatly doubt the few interview spots left in any of those programs are going to be offered to a less than optimal candidate.

In terms of IM vs FM... IM is generally more competitive than FM. Maybe a combination of both would give you the best shot.

But hey, what does anyone on here know. Never say never. only the match will tell.

 

[Dr. USMLE]

I have a comlex level 1 score of 617 /226 on usmle. have done research - 1 publication. I know that ACGME is out of question and applying only AOA. But have not been able to get audition rotations. The only contact I had are PD's of residency programs. I emailed some and almost none got back to me. How to do you schedule these rotations if nobody gets back to you ?
Also anyone know what kind of students match into these programs ? do you have to be from the osteopathic school associated with the program or anyone has a fair shot ?
Also is it easier to get into radiology as compared to ophthalmology given there are more spots and scores count in the radiology programs
anyone ???????

Although the radiology average step is higher than ophtho for both the allopathic and osteopathic matches, there are many more spots since rads is a much bigger field. If you shine on your away rotations, have very well prepared application materials, do well on step 2, and interview well, your scores will not keep you out of either ophtho or rads.

 

[cliquesh]

I have a comlex level 1 score of 617 /226 on usmle. have done research - 1 publication. I know that ACGME is out of question and applying only AOA. But have not been able to get audition rotations. The only contact I had are PD's of residency programs. I emailed some and almost none got back to me. How to do you schedule these rotations if nobody gets back to you ?
Also anyone know what kind of students match into these programs ? do you have to be from the osteopathic school associated with the program or anyone has a fair shot ?
Also is it easier to get into radiology as compared to ophthalmology given there are more spots and scores count in the radiology programs
anyone ???????

I hope you're a 3rd year. Your scores are good enough for Acgme rads. 3 people in my class matched Acgme rads at community programs with mid 500 board scores. They didn't even have usmle scores. 4 other people matched university programs and they had usmle scores between 232 and 241.

 

[TrimtheChute]

Thanks so much for your advice TrimtheChute!! I'm working toward that right now. Someone told me that my personal statement should be geared to internal medicine and then I should add what I'm interested it in the end. Is this a good advice?

Thanks so much for your input

I'm not sure on the PS for IM since I'm only applying FM. I would think you would want to show a strong interest in IM and perhaps an IM subspecialty if applicable. But I don't know how optho or derm would come across to a PD in an IM PS. At the end of the day, I think the most important thing would be to match somewhere this year where you would be happy and could pursue a specialty or subspecialty during elective time. With hard work and making good connections, you can make anything happen even if it is not the traditional route. Good luck!

 

[Dr Dazzle]

Do you guys know how the chances of matching are affected if you failed a 1st year course and had to remediate it? Or is it all really about the board scores?

 

[pattr]

Do you guys know how the chances of matching are affected if you failed a 1st year course and had to remediate it? Or is it all really about the board scores?

Shouldn't matter as much as board scores, third year and sub-I grades, letters, class rank (in that order)... usually preclinical isn't too important. You might have to explain what happened during your interviews though.

 

[iatros]

http://data.aacom.org/media/DO_GME_match_2012.pdf

2012 Osteopathic Match Data is available now (as of yesterday)

 

[twocentnews]

In terms of AOA, family, peds, Ob/gyn, emergency, internal, general surgery, psych, neurology, PM&R for sure.

In terms of Acgme...I don't know. Probably family, im, and psych for sure. You'd probably get a handful of EM invites. I don't know about the rest.

I had 1 classmate match Acgme radiology radiology with 550 and another 1 match Acgme anesthesia with a mid 500. They didn't get many interviews, but they matched. If you took the usmle step 2 and did about average, it would improve your chances of matching.

Thanks for the help! When you say AOA and then write PM&R for sure, does that also take the ACGME programs into account? Because there are only about 2 osteo PM&R programs. Will my 550 get me into the door for the more competitive higher ranked PM&R programs?

 

[Trogghunter]

I would say maybe....I know that like 20% of acgme pm&r residencies go to osteopathic students, can't imagine that many of them have >550 comlex. You should look up all of pm&r programs and see if they all take comlex and then what their cutoff scores are. Residency swap.org or .com has a database for the programs, as does the nrmp website

 

[twocentnews]

Thanks Trogghunter! I did contact a majority of the programs and almost all of them have said they accept COMLEX but none of them have been open about their score cutoffs unfortunately...

I would say maybe....I know that like 20% of acgme pm&r residencies go to osteopathic students, can't imagine that many of them have >550 comlex. You should look up all of pm&r programs and see if they all take comlex and then what their cutoff scores are. Residency swap.org or .com has a database for the programs, as does the nrmp website

 

[Y0Adrienne]

Hi, I really want to do ortho surgery and i got a 564 on comlex, and I took the usmle and dont plan on using it and have 208, as I didnt finish the test. anyway... I know I need a backup but I dont know realisticly wht my chances are and also as a back up for ortho and apply say peds in acgme, would I have a chance? or do I go osteopathic for both?

 

[cliquesh]

Hi, I really want to do ortho surgery and i got a 564 on comlex, and I took the usmle and dont plan on using it and have 208, as I didnt finish the test. anyway... I know I need a backup but I dont know realisticly wht my chances are and also as a back up for ortho and apply say peds in acgme, would I have a chance? or do I go osteopathic for both?

It's possible to match orthopedics. Everyone in my class with a sub 600 failed to match orthopedics, however. You could match general surgery for sure.

 

[Gobblox]

Interested in Pathology

561 COMLEX and No USMLE
I have research.

Thoughts?

 

[pathologyDO]

Just scored 498 on my COMSAE -A and have about a week out before my exam. Haven't started studying OMM yet so hopefully looking to break 550+ but even if I stay around 500, can anyone tell me how that stacks up for osteopathic rads in the current market? I know things have gotten much easier for allopathic rads

 

[hallowmann]

Just scored 498 on my COMSAE -A and have about a week out before my exam. Haven't started studying OMM yet so hopefully looking to break 550+ but even if I stay around 500, can anyone tell me how that stacks up for osteopathic rads in the current market? I know things have gotten much easier for allopathic rads

If all you want is Rads, I'd even consider applying to the low-tier ACGME community Rads programs. A lot of those places might prefer a DO over an IMG. Obviously it varies, but if you apply broadly AOA and ACGME, I doubt you'll have an issue.

Hopefully this is all irrelevant and you'll score 550-600+ and not have many (cause every 4th yr I know has some) doubts.

 

[pathologyDO]

If all you want is Rads, I'd even consider applying to the low-tier ACGME community Rads programs. A lot of those places might prefer a DO over an IMG. Obviously it varies, but if you apply broadly AOA and ACGME, I doubt you'll have an issue.

Hopefully this is all irrelevant and you'll score 550-600+ and not have many (cause every 4th yr I know has some) doubts.

Thanks for the response! I totally agree, and I wouldn't mind applying acgme rads. Do you know if any programs take COMLEX in place of USMLE?

 

[hallowmann]

Thanks for the response! I totally agree, and I wouldn't mind applying acgme rads. Do you know if any programs take COMLEX in place of USMLE?

So obviously most ACGME Rads programs will want a USMLE score, but I've heard of people matching community Rads with just a COMLEX. I'm not very familiar with Rads programs, so I don't have a list off the top of my head, but @cliquesh probably has some idea, since I recall him having a lot of knowledge about specialty matching from his class.

 

[rifler26]

I know it's unlikely for someone to know this for sure, but I've been considering this hypothetical: you apply to allo programs that accept COMLEX, but you've also taken the USMLE. Do they then disregard your COMLEX and just consider your USMLE? I ask because my stats are USMLE: 228 and COMLEX: 629. One is significantly better than the other so did I screw myself over by taking the USMLE with regards to those programs that look at both? Any ideas on this would be appreciated.

 

[DocVapor]

I know it's unlikely for someone to know this for sure, but I've been considering this hypothetical: you apply to allo programs that accept COMLEX, but you've also taken the USMLE. Do they then disregard your COMLEX and just consider your USMLE? I ask because my stats are USMLE: 228 and COMLEX: 629. One is significantly better than the other so did I screw myself over by taking the USMLE with regards to those programs that look at both? Any ideas on this would be appreciated.

I'm sure this is program-dependent. If it's one that has taken lots of DO's in the past, then they'll probably consider your COMLEX. If not, they'll probably just use your USMLE.