Choosing between PCOM and Lecom?

[Batphysician]

Hey everyone I'm in an awesome pickle and I'm very thankful for the good fortune of being admitted to both Lecom Erie and PCOM Philadelphia. Now my problem is I have no idea which one to choose. I live in Ohio and my priorities for med school are good teachers with strong rotation sites and obviously good pass rate. On paper both these schools fit the bill but PCOM is older and Lecom is cheaper. Any insight from current students or any inside knowledge would be very much appreciated!

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[cliquesh]

Pcom. I'm actually surprised you are contemplating this.

 

[Elevencents]

LECOM so I can have your PCOM spot.

 

[ZeaL6]

I would personally choose PCOM all day. Lake Erie just has too many negatives. I interviewed at Erie and was accepted, but it would honestly probably be my last choice. I guess some people may have good opinions of LECOM on interview day but the massive group interview alone turned me off and showed me how much time they'd put into their 350+ students.

 

[pattr]

PCOM. It's actually one of the *best* DO schools in terms of getting a quality education, preclinical and clinical.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Pcom.

 

[BCAA]

Pcom.

I'm interested in hearing some of the rationalizations for choosing pcom over lecom. Not saying I disagree, but I'm curious. What do you mean by "one of the best" DO schools? Well, I see you said further that its clinical education etc. is better, but what does that mean...is there any quantifiable difference between them? It seems that the responses are a clear cut pcom, but I'm having trouble seeing that easy of a differentiation. Via lecom, you save 60k tuition total... How different can DO programs be? I don't think they are like MD programs that can be rated in terms of research quality such as hopkins vs. school x...

 

[pattr]

I'm interested in hearing some of the rationalizations for choosing pcom over lecom. Not saying I disagree, but I'm curious. What do you mean by "one of the best" DO schools? Well, I see you said further that its clinical education etc. is better, but what does that mean...is there any quantifiable difference between them? It seems that the responses are a clear cut pcom, but I'm having trouble seeing that easy of a differentiation. Via lecom, you save 60k tuition total... How different can DO programs be? I don't think they are like MD programs that can be rated in terms of research quality such as hopkins vs. school x...

The most important difference is 3rd/4th year, clinical rotations.

PCOM has its own affiliated teaching hospitals so all students get a very standardized experience with attendings and residents who are used to having medical students around: PCOM clinical rotation sites. Because of this there's also opportunities to network and impress people which can lead to better chances at residency programs.

LECOM is more the hodgepodge of different sites where different students have different schedules and the experience is more varied from student to student: LECOM clinical rotation sites.

Also PCOM is like a century older than LECOM so it's more established and regionally recognized, especially in Pennsylvania.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Hey everyone I'm in an awesome pickle and I'm very thankful for the good fortune of being admitted to both Lecom Erie and PCOM Philadelphia. Now my problem is I have no idea which one to choose. I live in Ohio and my priorities for med school are good teachers with strong rotation sites and obviously good pass rate. On paper both these schools fit the bill but PCOM is older and Lecom is cheaper. Any insight from current students or any inside knowledge would be very much appreciated!

PCOM easily.

 

[ZeaL6]

I'm interested in hearing some of the rationalizations for choosing pcom over lecom. Not saying I disagree, but I'm curious. What do you mean by "one of the best" DO schools? Well, I see you said further that its clinical education etc. is better, but what does that mean...is there any quantifiable difference between them? It seems that the responses are a clear cut pcom, but I'm having trouble seeing that easy of a differentiation. Via lecom, you save 60k tuition total... How different can DO programs be? I don't think they are like MD programs that can be rated in terms of research quality such as hopkins vs. school x...

No Food and Drink basically anywhere, prosected cadavers, class size 350, not so great hospital affiliates, the list goes on and on. You get what you pay for I guess.

 

[BCAA]

The most important difference is 3rd/4th year, clinical rotations.

PCOM has its own affiliated teaching hospitals so all students get a very standardized experience with attendings and residents who are used to having medical students around: PCOM clinical rotation sites. Because of this there's also opportunities to network and impress people which can lead to better chances at residency programs.

LECOM is more the hodgepodge of different sites where different students have different schedules and the experience is more varied from student to student: LECOM clinical rotation sites.

Also PCOM is like a century older than LECOM so it's more established and regionally recognized, especially in Pennsylvania.

thanks for the explanation. I'm still having trouble seeing how it's a clear choice for pcom, but I didn't realize the difference in variability of rotation schedules so thanks.

 

[Escape_Goat]

PCOM, absolutely.

Another consideration is that LECOM students can't do clinical rotations at UPMC affiliated hospitals anymore. LECOM wasn't paying UPMC for their students to do rotations in UPMC hospitals, so UPMC didn't renew the contract once it expired. So, anything on this page http://www.upmc.com/LOCATIONS/Pages/default.aspx can be crossed off the LECOM site list.

 

[Dharma]

Which school has consistently better clinical rotation experiences across its student body? Pick the school were you are most likely to receive a solid clinical education. The first two years are pretty much the same anywhere (i.e. you basically teach yourself no matter where you go… yes most professors are useless). It's those last two years where some pull away from the pack and others lag strugglingly behind.

 

[Batphysician]

Thank you very much to everyone who responded I'll keep all this in mind. It's still a tough choice because location wise and where I'd like to rotate Lecom is more desirable and obviously price wise it is. But if the quality of rotation sites are better at PCOM I'll have to do more research.

 

[Bacchus]

I'm a PCOM grad. I had this question when I was in the application process as well. Cost is a big, big issue and shouldn't be dismissed because of PCOM's age or clinical rotation sites. Our rotation sites are varied as well; not all of them are going to provide you great experiences. Some of them, in fact, may provide you pretty poor experiences. If you're going to be happier at LECOM I'd go there. You're more apt to do well if you're happy. You're going to be a DO on the market and if you don't necessarily want to practice in Eastern PA the PCOM name won't get you too far. PCOM won't hold the same clout as many of the other schools in PA: Hershey, Pitt, Penn, Temple, Jefferson or Drexel.

For your cost, I think you'd be better off going to LECOM. Go wherever you're happy. PCOM isn't going to land the residency of your dreams if you do poorly because you're so unhappy.

 

[Batphysician]

I'm a PCOM grad. I had this question when I was in the application process as well. Cost is a big, big issue and shouldn't be dismissed because of PCOM's age or clinical rotation sites. Our rotation sites are varied as well; not all of them are going to provide you great experiences. Some of them, in fact, may provide you pretty poor experiences. If you're going to be happier at LECOM I'd go there. You're more apt to do well if you're happy. You're going to be a DO on the market and if you don't necessarily want to practice in Eastern PA the PCOM name won't get you too far. PCOM won't hold the same clout as many of the other schools in PA: Hershey, Pitt, Penn, Temple, Jefferson or Drexel.

For your cost, I think you'd be better off going to LECOM. Go wherever you're happy. PCOM isn't going to land the residency of your dreams if you do poorly because you're so unhappy.

Thank you for your honesty. You're the first person to not tell me PCOM is perfect. When did you graduate if you don't mind me asking? Where do you practice? So you think if I want to practice in Ohio It'd be better in Lecom? Also does PCOM do the majority of it's rotations in Philadelphia? How were the teachers?

Anyways thank you so much for your advice.

 

[Dr Yiot]

Thank you for your honesty. You're the first person to not tell me PCOM is perfect. When did you graduate if you don't mind me asking? Where do you practice? So you think if I want to practice in Ohio It'd be better in Lecom? Also does PCOM do the majority of it's rotations in Philadelphia? How were the teachers?

Anyways thank you so much for your advice.

cost is a big factor, just acknowledge that you get what you pay for.

both schools will make you a doctor and both are good academically.

i say go to PCOM every time in this situation. regardless of cost you will be happier as a student

 

[hallowmann]

Thank you for your honesty. You're the first person to not tell me PCOM is perfect. When did you graduate if you don't mind me asking? Where do you practice? So you think if I want to practice in Ohio It'd be better in Lecom? Also does PCOM do the majority of it's rotations in Philadelphia? How were the teachers?

Anyways thank you so much for your advice.

OK, so this is my opinion. I go to LECOM, but I'm in PBL, and I like it a lot. That said, if the choice was LECOM LDP vs PCOM, I'd probably choose PCOM simply for the better lifestyle. Be sure that you also know what you're getting into at LECOM in terms of the rules. They are strict, and clearly laid out, so keep it in mind. That said, if you like LECOM go there, if you like PCOM, go there. Wherever you think will make you happier, go there.

In terms of opportunity, PCOM is more well known, especially in the Philly, NJ, NY metro area. You also have the opportunity to rotate at a good amount of big sites in Philly and you are living in a big city, whereas Erie or Greensburg are more like small cities/towns. That said, LECOM has a bunch of rotation sites in Ohio and UH is one of our "big name" academic sites. Really though, Ohio has a ton of residencies and they tend to like DOs, so you'll probably be able to match somewhere in Ohio no matter which DO school you go to.

Price is a big deal. $10,000-$15,000 extra a year is a lot to swallow, especially if you are doing it all on loans. Ultimately that extra cost with interest will probably end up being around $80,000 extra by the time you pay it off.

All that said, no matter what you choose, don't look back. The grass is always greener, and no matter where you go, you will have times that just suck. The last thing you want to do is think, "if only...?" and let that bog you down. Once you make your decision and start, forget everything else.

 

[Dr Yiot]

OK, so this is my opinion. I go to LECOM, but I'm in PBL, and I like it a lot. That said, if the choice was LECOM LDP vs PCOM, I'd probably choose PCOM simply for the better lifestyle. Be sure that you also know what you're getting into at LECOM in terms of the rules. They are strict, and clearly laid out, so keep it in mind. That said, if you like LECOM go there, if you like PCOM, go there. Wherever you think will make you happier, go there.

In terms of opportunity, PCOM is more well known, especially in the Philly, NJ, NY metro area. You also have the opportunity to rotate at a good amount of big sites in Philly and you are living in a big city, whereas Erie or Greensburg are more like small cities/towns. That said, LECOM has a bunch of rotation sites in Ohio and UH is one of our "big name" academic sites. Really though, Ohio has a ton of residencies and they tend to like DOs, so you'll probably be able to match somewhere in Ohio no matter which DO school you go to.

Price is a big deal. $10,000-$15,000 extra a year is a lot to swallow, especially if you are doing it all on loans. Ultimately that extra cost with interest will probably end up being around $80,000 extra by the time you pay it off.

All that said, no matter what you choose, don't look back. The grass is always greener, and no matter where you go, you will have times that just suck. The last thing you want to do is think, "if only...?" and let that bog you down. Once you make your decision and start, forget everything else.

You are PBL, completely different animal. That said, still way too much BS that you would never have to deal with at another school. I like my school but bieng completely objective, if i had to make this same decision the cons would make me think again about going there.

The thing is that nothing that im upset about has anything to do with becoming a physician. Just that your first two years of school are stressful enough that it is not worth it IMO

 

[cabinbuilder]

Thank you for your honesty. You're the first person to not tell me PCOM is perfect. When did you graduate if you don't mind me asking? Where do you practice? So you think if I want to practice in Ohio It'd be better in Lecom? Also does PCOM do the majority of it's rotations in Philadelphia? How were the teachers?

Anyways thank you so much for your advice.

NO ONE CARES where you went to medical school when you are looking at jobs. The school name isn't going to help you/hurt you to get a job in Ohio. Just and FYI, the Ferretti's who own/run LECOM went to medical school at PCOM. LECOM has a ton of rotation opportunities and just because UPMC was dropped shouldn't be your deciding factor. There are so many choices to pick. I personally would pick a location that is not big city where getting around is easy. Erie is super cheap to live in, low rent, groceries are cheap, the school is cheap, etc. The weather is crap but you can't be outside anyway so you might as well study. As someone else said, go where you will be happy so you can be successful. I LOVED going to LECOM. I felt like it was family, I got a great education, and I work anywhere I want to.

 

[cliquesh]

NO ONE CARES where you went to medical school when you are looking at jobs. The school name isn't going to help you/hurt you to get a job in Ohio. Just and FYI, the Ferretti's who own/run LECOM went to medical school at PCOM. LECOM has a ton of rotation opportunities and just because UPMC was dropped shouldn't be your deciding factor. There are so many choices to pick. I personally would pick a location that is not big city where getting around is easy. Erie is super cheap to live in, low rent, groceries are cheap, the school is cheap, etc. The weather is crap but you can't be outside anyway so you might as well study. As someone else said, go where you will be happy so you can be successful. I LOVED going to LECOM. I felt like it was family, I got a great education, and I work anywhere I want to.

Many employers do care.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Many employers do care.

Not that I've seen. They care that you are board certified.

 

[cliquesh]

Not that I've seen. They care that you are board certified.

Not to be a complete dick, but you work in the middle of no where, correct?

I want to ultimately practice in a semi-rural environment.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Not to be a complete dick, but you work in the middle of no where, correct?

I have worked both rural and smaller cities. I just worked in Las Vegas and I'm TELLING YOU, they care that you are BOARD CERTIFIED. I have taken both permanent positions and locums positions. They care that you are board certified. I have NEVER been questioned about where I went to medical school. Believe me or not, that's up to you. But I've been out here for 5 years working - I have no reason to lie. You think some employer in Ohio is going to choose a PCOM grad over a LECOM grad? Doubt it.

 

[cliquesh]

I have worked both rural and smaller cities. I just worked in Las Vegas and I'm TELLING YOU, they care that you are BOARD CERTIFIED. I have taken both permanent positions and locums positions. They care that you are board certified. I have NEVER been questioned about where I went to medical school. Believe me or not, that's up to you. But I've been out here for 5 years working - I have no reason to lie. You think some employer in Ohio is going to choose a PCOM grad over a LECOM grad? Doubt it.

No, I don't think theyll pick a pcom grad over a lecom grad or lecom grad over a pcom grad. But saying employers don't care where you went to school, in my opinion, is not true.

 

[cabinbuilder]

No, I don't think theyll pick a pcom grad over a lecom grad or lecom grad over a pcom grad. But saying employers don't care where you went to school, in my opinion, is not true.

That's fine, I choose to disagree. I'm actually interviewing tomorrow for a job in Reno, my school choice is not part of the decision whether I get the job. If I wasn't board certified, I would not even be considered.

 

[Batphysician]

NO ONE CARES where you went to medical school when you are looking at jobs. The school name isn't going to help you/hurt you to get a job in Ohio. Just and FYI, the Ferretti's who own/run LECOM went to medical school at PCOM. LECOM has a ton of rotation opportunities and just because UPMC was dropped shouldn't be your deciding factor. There are so many choices to pick. I personally would pick a location that is not big city where getting around is easy. Erie is super cheap to live in, low rent, groceries are cheap, the school is cheap, etc. The weather is crap but you can't be outside anyway so you might as well study. As someone else said, go where you will be happy so you can be successful. I LOVED going to LECOM. I felt like it was family, I got a great education, and I work anywhere I want to.

Thank you for your input! When did you graduate Lecom out of curiosity? Glad to hear people can be happy in Lecom. That's good to hear.
Is it true that Lecom doesn't pay the hospitals or doctors for rotations?

 

[cabinbuilder]

Thank you for your input! When did you graduate Lecom out of curiosity? Glad to hear people can be happy in Lecom. That's good to hear.
Is it true that Lecom doesn't pay the hospitals or doctors for rotations?

Yes, it's true they don't pay hospitals or doctors for rotations. They have agreements in place at certain sites where a LECOM student is continuously rotating there. The agreements are just different. I graduated in 2006. I did enjoy my time there and still keep in contact with some staff there and fellow classmates.

 

[Dr Yiot]

yup no body cares where you went to medical school.

they care that you are board certified

but thats not why i would choose PCOM over LECOM.

go where you will be happiest.

for my personal decision i would have been happier at another school but i went to lecom cause the tuition was much cheaper.

i do not know how cabin builder felt like lecom had a family atmosphere. thats actually the one reason im not too happy at the school. i feel like there is a huge disconnect from the administration/faculty and students (most). the other schools i had to choose from seemed to have a great freindly atmosphere and happiness about them. lecom does not. you cannot help but feel that this only cares about money and money only despite the low tuition.

that bieng said the education here is great. cannot deny that. for most subjects you get a good education and board scores are good. rotations are also decent compared to other osteopathic schools. if i could do it again thought i would have went somewhere where i would have been happier personally. im not very happy here but thats just the atmosphere here. i feel like your voice is not heard and you have to just keep your head down and get buy. and for someone like myself who does not like to complain or cause conflict it kind of sucks.

 

[cabinbuilder]

yup no body cares where you went to medical school.

they care that you are board certified

but thats not why i would choose PCOM over LECOM.

go where you will be happiest.

for my personal decision i would have been happier at another school but i went to lecom cause the tuition was much cheaper.

i do not know how cabin builder felt like lecom had a family atmosphere. thats actually the one reason im not too happy at the school. i feel like there is a huge .

I went to LECOM when it was still relatively new, in 2001, before they became this huge entity. Many of the professors I had and connected with are no longer there. I had little kids at the time and was very active with the family clubs. I was friends with the rotation office staff, the security personnel, and the admin folks. My husband received the spouse of the year award. Dr. Sylvia knows me by name and has seen me multiple times over the years at conferences. At the time it was still exotic that I was from Alaska so I was well known for that fact and people made a point to talk to me about that. Sorry it has changed for you. I had a great time there.

 

[Lost Vagus]

I can't make the decision for you but I can tell you what I would do. These are just my personal opinions, maybe you will share some of them.

I would go to PCOM without hesitation. It's known as one of the best schools in the country. Whether or not the reputation will help you land a great residency/job, I don't know. The reputation definitely won't hurt you though. I'm not a fan of the strict rules at lecom. If I had the option of wearing what I want vs wearing a tie I would pick being comfy every time. I also like the location of PCOM much much better. Erie averages 100 inches of snow each year.... that is not something I want to experience. I know the rotations at pcom are supposed to be pretty great and I have heard mixed reviews with lecom. Like I said, I would pick PCOM fairly easily.

Lecom does have some things going for it. It has a large alumni base that could help you make some connections and it is cheap.
I've come to terms with the fact that I am going to be in debt but I know I will pay it off. Tuition wasn't really a factor for me.

Looking back, most of my decisions are based on comfort (not many rules, dressing down, nicer weather/location). These are the things I like, maybe you are the complete opposite of me. Pick what place you think will make you the happiest, either school will give you the means to become a great physician. Go with your gut and don't look back. Good luck

 

[EnergyDrink]

These schools are practically polar opposites of each other. Think about where you'd fit in better.

 

[Dr Yiot]

I went to LECOM when it was still relatively new, in 2001, before they became this huge entity. Many of the professors I had and connected with are no longer there. I had little kids at the time and was very active with the family clubs. I was friends with the rotation office staff, the security personnel, and the admin folks. My husband received the spouse of the year award. Dr. Sylvia knows me by name and has seen me multiple times over the years at conferences. At the time it was still exotic that I was from Alaska so I was well known for that fact and people made a point to talk to me about that. Sorry it has changed for you. I had a great time there.

It has clearly changed drastically since you have been there then. As I have said before the education here is good. Sure a lot of people complain about the rules of which I could care less about. What I would have wanted was what you are describing. To know Dr. Silvia by name and to have a great relationship with professors etc. Unfortunately I have never even met dr. silvia. Never even seen exchanged a hello with her while she walked down the hallway. That is the same way with all of the students there. There is zero communication or relationship at all. When I mention the disconnect that the current student body is experiencing i keep hearing that it is probably better this way. It is very unfortunate. I wanted to attend a medical school where the dean of the school, the teachers, the administration all knew you bye first name and you discussed these things. I started a post bacc program at another school while trying to get into medical school. I wasnt even a medical student and that dean and other various professors/administrators new me by name in weeks and asked me about my application/my family etc.

When it came to deciding between schools it was difficult but i went with what was what I thought a better decision. Lecom was the most fiscally responsible decision but I never thought how important it would be to me that I wanted a better atmosphere for an education.

 

[cabinbuilder]

It has clearly changed drastically since you have been there then. As I have said before the education here is good. Sure a lot of people complain about the rules of which I could care less about. What I would have wanted was what you are describing. To know Dr. Silvia by name and to have a great relationship with professors etc. Unfortunately I have never even met dr. silvia. Never even seen exchanged a hello with her while she walked down the hallway. That is the same way with all of the students there. There is zero communication or relationship at all. When I mention the disconnect that the current student body is experiencing i keep hearing that it is probably better this way. It is very unfortunate. I wanted to attend a medical school where the dean of the school, the teachers, the administration all knew you bye first name and you discussed these things. I started a post bacc program at another school while trying to get into medical school. I wasnt even a medical student and that dean and other various professors/administrators new me by name in weeks and asked me about my application/my family etc.

When it came to deciding between schools it was difficult but i went with what was what I thought a better decision. Lecom was the most fiscally responsible decision but I never thought how important it would be to me that I wanted a better atmosphere for an education.

That is unfortunate. I am sorry it has changed so much.

 

[Batphysician]

It has clearly changed drastically since you have been there then. As I have said before the education here is good. Sure a lot of people complain about the rules of which I could care less about. What I would have wanted was what you are describing. To know Dr. Silvia by name and to have a great relationship with professors etc. Unfortunately I have never even met dr. silvia. Never even seen exchanged a hello with her while she walked down the hallway. That is the same way with all of the students there. There is zero communication or relationship at all. When I mention the disconnect that the current student body is experiencing i keep hearing that it is probably better this way. It is very unfortunate. I wanted to attend a medical school where the dean of the school, the teachers, the administration all knew you bye first name and you discussed these things. I started a post bacc program at another school while trying to get into medical school. I wasnt even a medical student and that dean and other various professors/administrators new me by name in weeks and asked me about my application/my family etc.

When it came to deciding between schools it was difficult but i went with what was what I thought a better decision. Lecom was the most fiscally responsible decision but I never thought how important it would be to me that I wanted a better atmosphere for an education.

Hmm thank you for this information. It definitely seems like I'll have to think about this atmosphere in my decision.

 

[Dr Yiot]

you will get a good education at lecom at a good price. there is no denying that. this years avg comlex score was a 524 for the boards. We scored an average of a 550. (this includes those from the seton hill and erie campus, all pathways). Out of however many students that includes (i believe somewhere in the upper 300's) we only had 3 failures. We had a 99.1% pass rate on FIRST attempt. There is something to be said about that. However, I feel like this success could have been achieved without the feeling of being oppressed 24/7. Being in medical school for almost two years now I can say that your success is more of a reflection on your hard work and I think that i could have done just as good at another school.
GL on your decision. I have been in your shoes before and its tuff. go with your gut.

 

[primadonna22274]

PCOM all the way, if only for the third and fourth year rotations and residency opportunities. No contest.

 

[Dr Yiot]

PCOM all the way, if only for the third and fourth year rotations and residency opportunities. No contest.

agreed

 

[Batphysician]

Does anyone have any PCOM emails or contacts I could talk to?