carving/waxing and OMFS

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fightingspirit

fightingspirit

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Waxing/carving and OMFS

When you were in dental school, did some of you do poorly on waxing/carving/tooth restoration? And did that push you more into OS as opposed to general dentistry?

Also, do you think that poor waxing/carving skills are an ominous sign of lack of fitness to perform oral surgery?

I will be perfectly honest. I am a first year dental student and although all of my classmates are, like me, beginners in waxing, I am perhaps the worst in the entire class and no matter how much feedback I get from my school's wonderful instructors, I fail to wax the anatomy of the tooth. I am getting C's on my practical exams and I see no signs of progress in my work. I will not talk about how depressed and stressed I am over this but suffice it to say that I am seriously questioning my fitness for operative dentistry.
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do you know what they call the guy that graduates at the bottom of the class.... Dr. (there is a big difference between having this attitude as an excuse to not work hard and somebody that busts their but and still is "only managing C's")

nearly everybody questions their fitness to manage the handskills of dentistry at some point in their education
 
you aren't going to school to become a lab technician. my waxing skills weren't that great either. once you get into clinic, i think you will realize that when you are doing a restoration or making a provisional, the anatomy isn't going to be nearly as detailed as were you waxing a tooth, and it still looks great in the mouth. i wouldn't get too down bucause you don't wax a crown worthy tooth.
 
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i got a couple of pms that are along the lines of what you guys are saying here.

i would like to thank all of you, including the two SDNers who sent very insightfull message, for the kindness and support. SDN is great because i get feedback from those who have gone through it all.....


feedback greatly appreciated
 
You are stressin way too much...just pass the class and you'll be fine. To think waxing is telling of your skills is seriously absurd.
 
i didn't pass a single waxing practical but there was some weird wicked curve in the class and passed..
 
rocknightmare said:
i didn't pass a single waxing practical but there was some weird wicked curve in the class and passed..
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man, you should check out some of the hands in our class.....we have 3 students who are truly gifted. give them an hour, and they'll give you an exact replica without even using the gauge...they just eyeball the model and boom.....
 
Waxing teeth is very important to OMFS. If you can't wax, don't apply. I like to set a burner, some wax, and a paper clip in front of each applicant. If they finish early I've got some denture teeth and a wax rim behind the desk.
 
tx oms said:
Waxing teeth is very important to OMFS. If you can't wax, don't apply. I like to set a burner, some wax, and a paper clip in front of each applicant. If they finish early I've got some denture teeth and a wax rim behind the desk.
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....i have read your posts before. this one is perhaps one of your least successfull attempts at wit and comedy....i think people misunderstood the logic behind my analysis regarding OS and carving/waxing....

what i meant to say was that OS requires manual dexterity/delicate cautious hands.....and so does waxing/carving. and hence the question whether or not poor waxing/carving skills bode ill on one's prospects as an oral surgeon.
 
tx oms, i thought it was funny.
 
fightingspirit said:
Waxing/carving and OMFS

When you were in dental school, did some of you do poorly on waxing/carving/tooth restoration? And did that push you more into OS as opposed to general dentistry?

Also, do you think that poor waxing/carving skills are an ominous sign of lack of fitness to perform oral surgery?

I will be perfectly honest. I am a first year dental student and although all of my classmates are, like me, beginners in waxing, I am perhaps the worst in the entire class and no matter how much feedback I get from my school’s wonderful instructors, I fail to wax the anatomy of the tooth. I am getting C’s on my practical exams and I see no signs of progress in my work. I will not talk about how depressed and stressed I am over this but suffice it to say that I am seriously questioning my fitness for operative dentistry.
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you are learning how to reconstruct a complex and elegant human organ- a tooth by using wax as a medium. and the fact that you are stressed that means you are learning a lot and making good progress. it just likes learning how to draw or play a violin or piano. keep up the effort on learning, you will become a very good dentist--any kind of dentist.:cool:

'Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to give up every conceived notion, follow humbly wherever and whatever abysses nature leads, or you will learn nothing'. --Thomas Huxley
 
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tx oms said:
Waxing teeth is very important to OMFS. If you can't wax, don't apply. I like to set a burner, some wax, and a paper clip in front of each applicant. If they finish early I've got some denture teeth and a wax rim behind the desk.
Click to expand...

I thought you were funny also. Hell, its funnier than the fact that OJ is writing a book about how he killed his wife, yet still says he didn't do it. Now that is funny.






Maybe fighting spirit just doesn't have a good sense of humor.
 
fightingspirit said:
Waxing/carving and OMFS

When you were in dental school, did some of you do poorly on waxing/carving/tooth restoration? And did that push you more into OS as opposed to general dentistry?

Also, do you think that poor waxing/carving skills are an ominous sign of lack of fitness to perform oral surgery?

I will be perfectly honest. I am a first year dental student and although all of my classmates are, like me, beginners in waxing, I am perhaps the worst in the entire class and no matter how much feedback I get from my school’s wonderful instructors, I fail to wax the anatomy of the tooth. I am getting C’s on my practical exams and I see no signs of progress in my work. I will not talk about how depressed and stressed I am over this but suffice it to say that I am seriously questioning my fitness for operative dentistry.
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your lack of ability to wax a crown might cause you to think twice about applying to pros, all the other specialties should be fair game. then again, scraping wax is a lot like scraping teeth, forget perio. OMS has nothing to do with that trivial crap, go ahead, set your sights high, just make sure that C in waxing doesn't screw over your GPA too much, a couple easy A's in preventive dentistry, cariology, and nutrition should be enough to compensate, its all good brutha, waxing is like arts and crafts, just go, relax, and have fun, it's a good thing.
 
north2southOMFS said:
maybe fighting spirit just doesn't have a good sense of humor.
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when i am stressed over something, i am usually numb towards humor. after some meditation though...i got over it....now i am tryin to think of away to not screw up the GPA
 
KIMOANGELO said:
you are learning how to reconstruct a complex and elegant human organ- a tooth by using wax as a medium. and the fact that you are stressed that means you are learning a lot and making good progress. it just likes learning how to draw or play a violin or piano. keep up the effort on learning, you will become a very good dentist--any kind of dentist.:cool:

'Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to give up every conceived notion, follow humbly wherever and whatever abysses nature leads, or you will learn nothing'. --Thomas Huxley
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thank you very much
 
Teefies said:
your lack of ability to wax a crown might cause you to think twice about applying to pros, all the other specialties should be fair game. then again, scraping wax is a lot like scraping teeth, forget perio. OMS has nothing to do with that trivial crap, go ahead, set your sights high, just make sure that C in waxing doesn't screw over your GPA too much, a couple easy A's in preventive dentistry, cariology, and nutrition should be enough to compensate, its all good brutha, waxing is like arts and crafts, just go, relax, and have fun, it's a good thing.
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yeah....i guess that's the only downside. it might screw up my gpa. we'lll see. i'll try to focus on the didactic portion of it so that i could at least aim for a B
 
fightingspirit said:
Also, do you think that poor waxing/carving skills are an ominous sign of lack of fitness to perform oral surgery?
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FYI, I read this very large randomized, prospective, double blinded study on the ability to wax teeth and a number of other interesting skills and this is essentially the conclusion of the study.

1. People who couldn't wax teeth very well seemed to hit their heads on the dresser often when they bent over to tie their shoes.

2. They seemed to get their hands caught in chain-linked fences when they reached through to pick up an apple.

3. They never seemed to master the "modified bass technique" thus their DMFS scores and plaque indexes were much higher.

4. Lastly, they had extreme difficulty managing a knife and a fork at the same time thus the waiter/waitress had to cut up their food for them.

Overall the long term outcome of the study showed: that those whose waxed teeth looked like little spaceships from space invaders, made rather good periodontists.....
 
ohhhh, more perio jokes.

I think that if we are going to make fun of specialties we should make fun of Oral Medicine.

I have also heard that to get into an OMFS program you must be able to wax up a mandible and maxilla. Each tissue/muscle/bone has to be a different color of wax and when you are done they tll you that there is a class III tumor at the base of the tongue and the only solution is a mandiblectomy. After the mandiblectomy you must wax up two rib bones and give the model a new pseudomandible. Is this true oh might OMFS residents who spit on freshman dental students?

I thought tx oms was funny bytheway:laugh:

:thumbup:
 
north2southOMFS said:
Oh damn. I see a serious ban comin'.
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hey...i started this thread with a valid, albeit naive, concern/inquiry. people started making jokes. now it is one thing to be an OMFS, who has been through it all, and crack jokes in a thread that related, albeit naivly, carving skills with the execusion of oral surgery,.... but it is totally another when you are a clueless first year dental student who comes to the thread of another first year student just to throw dung and brownnose other OMFS folks, as though you know it all. corolla was neither creative (mandiblectomy was pretty lame) in his posts nor informative. that's all.

folks seriously, it is not that complicated: if you dont like a thread or you think it is just too ******ed then dont waste time posting in it. in a thread that was not meant to be a joke, either post something meaningfull or dont post at all....
 
fightingspirit said:
great mr. oral medicine...now go give'em a blow job and wax his nuts mormon style....:D
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Banned and Sinking Spirit,

I guess you can't repsond due to your recent behaviors. I must be missing some context from this post. What does the Mormon Church have to do with waxing anatomy that excites you so much? Maybe you know Corolla Boy. For the future, it may have been slightly more effective to PM the Cheerio King and express your concerns privately.

I've got to say, taking in this entire thread, you are an interesting creature. Just do your best in your classes (even in all the less-applicable courses such as Dental Anatomy), work hard in clinic (especially OMFS), and be well-balanced.

Finally, do your best to avoid offending others. In the application process you need all the allies you can get for letters, etc. You don't appear to be terribly conscious of this point. I (and likely others) don't fully know what you mean by your comment, but it's in poor taste. One doesn't have to be Mormon to see that.
 
fightingspirit said:
hey...i started this thread with a valid, albeit naive, concern/inquiry. people started making jokes. now it is one thing to be an OMFS, who has been through it all, and crack jokes in a thread that related, albeit naivly, carving skills with the execusion of oral surgery,.... but it is totally another when you are a clueless first year dental student who comes to the thread of another first year student just to throw dung and brownnose other OMFS folks, as though you know it all. corolla was neither creative (mandiblectomy was pretty lame) in his posts nor informative. that's all.

folks seriously, it is not that complicated: if you dont like a thread or you think it is just too ******ed then dont waste time posting in it. in a thread that was not meant to be a joke, either post something meaningfull or dont post at all....
Click to expand...


you're in your first year, so i guess you haven't learned that getting through school is about having friends in your class and not trying to be an ass. it's waxing, get over it. if that's what keeps you from getting into omfs then you don't really need to apply when the time comes. you're main concern is getting through the first few years and then getting into clinic and finding out what you really want to do. there are plenty of people in my class who came into school swearing that they wanted to do omfs, pedo, ortho, etc. and now that we're a semester from being done, the majority of them want nothing more than to be a GP and start making some $$. the ones that want to go on are those that claimed they just wanted to get through when school started but they found something they wanted and they decided to go after it. i don't know of a single person who's been held back because their wax was a little off. get over the fact that you're not the best around anymore, you're in higher education now and suprise others are as good or better than you.
 
Denticles said:
you're in your first year, so i guess you haven't learned that getting through school is about having friends in your class and not trying to be an ass. it's waxing, get over it. if that's what keeps you from getting into omfs then you don't really need to apply when the time comes. you're main concern is getting through the first few years and then getting into clinic and finding out what you really want to do. there are plenty of people in my class who came into school swearing that they wanted to do omfs, pedo, ortho, etc. and now that we're a semester from being done, the majority of them want nothing more than to be a GP and start making some $$. the ones that want to go on are those that claimed they just wanted to get through when school started but they found something they wanted and they decided to go after it. i don't know of a single person who's been held back because their wax was a little off. get over the fact that you're not the best around anymore, you're in higher education now and suprise others are as good or better than you.
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def gets my vote.. i thought i could deal with dental school by myself and i did for nearly a year.. but once 2nd year hits you really need yoru support b/c this ain't easy stuff..
 
Denticles said:
you're in your first year, so i guess you haven't learned that getting through school is about having friends in your class and not trying to be an ass. it's waxing, get over it. if that's what keeps you from getting into omfs then you don't really need to apply when the time comes. you're main concern is getting through the first few years and then getting into clinic and finding out what you really want to do. there are plenty of people in my class who came into school swearing that they wanted to do omfs, pedo, ortho, etc. and now that we're a semester from being done, the majority of them want nothing more than to be a GP and start making some $$. the ones that want to go on are those that claimed they just wanted to get through when school started but they found something they wanted and they decided to go after it. i don't know of a single person who's been held back because their wax was a little off. get over the fact that you're not the best around anymore, you're in higher education now and suprise others are as good or better than you.
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agreed
 
wow...I forgot this thread existed. Taking some jokes to heart aren't we? Gave me a good laugh as I am cruising through finals and wax ups like I was tying my shoe. Yes fightingspirit, it is that easy for me. I hope this doesn't make you even more unstable.

Another thing to note about my comment made above: it wasn't directed towards you or your good question (it was a decent question). Someone made fun of Perio (yes we are in an OMFS thread and they like to make fun of Perio guys) so all I said was, "Lets make fun of an even more ******ed specialty: oral medicine." (no offense it is just a joke:D )

(yes for your reference this is an ACTUAL specialty. By-the-way...a mandiblectomy is ALSO a real procedure done to the mandible in extreme cases of oral cancer)

And it looks like my kissing tail in this thread earned me some points because you didn't get much love from anyone after your off the wall comment.

I hope you do well on finals...and on your wax ups. Number 30 is a doozy!
 
fightingspirit said:
....
what i meant to say was that OS requires manual dexterity/delicate cautious hands.....and so does waxing/carving. and hence the question whether or not poor waxing/carving skills bode ill on one's prospects as an oral surgeon.
Click to expand...

Okay, so does anyone else out there know even a SINGLE oral surgeon with "delicate, cautious hands" and "manual dexterity". I think spirit hasn't yet realized that oral surgeons become oral surgeons because they DON'T have "delicate, cautious hands". They are definitely the 'Brutes' of dentistry. But I still love them.

Anybody?
 
Jaybe said:
Okay, so does anyone else out there know even a SINGLE oral surgeon with "delicate, cautious hands" and "manual dexterity". I think spirit hasn't yet realized that oral surgeons become oral surgeons because they DON'T have "delicate, cautious hands". They are definitely the 'Brutes' of dentistry. But I still love them.

Anybody?
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What?!?! No "delicate, cautious hands" in OMFS.... that is because you have never seen me: delicately wipe the tear from a crying interns cheek when they just got called to the ED for the 10th time in a few hours, brush the dust from a soft rose petal, roll a burrito with a torn and compromised tortilla, and lastly snatch the pebble from the "old Asians hand".... oh wait, I'm a MARRIED OMFS not SINGLE, I guess I don't count
 
esclavo said:
What?!?! No "delicate, cautious hands" in OMFS.... that is because you have never seen me: delicately wipe the tear from a crying interns cheek when they just got called to the ED for the 10th time in a few hours, brush the dust from a soft rose petal, roll a burrito with a torn and compromised tortilla, and lastly snatch the pebble from the "old Asians hand".... oh wait, I'm a MARRIED OMFS not SINGLE, I guess I don't count
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That's awesome! roll a burrito . . .
 
Jaybe said:
Okay, so does anyone else out there know even a SINGLE oral surgeon with "delicate, cautious hands" and "manual dexterity".
Anybody?
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Yes. I know a bunch. They are my attendings. And hopefully someday me.
 
Jaybe said:
Okay, so does anyone else out there know even a SINGLE oral surgeon with "delicate, cautious hands" and "manual dexterity". I think spirit hasn't yet realized that oral surgeons become oral surgeons because they DON'T have "delicate, cautious hands". They are definitely the 'Brutes' of dentistry. But I still love them.

Anybody?
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Oral Surgeons operate with VERY DELICATE and CAUTIOUS HANDS and EXCELLENT MANUAL DEXTERITY...

This tells me you haven't been in the operating room to see an OMFS perform the the careful ballet of cleft lip/palate surgery, head and neck cancer and microvascular surgery, microneurosurgery, facial reconstructive and cosmetic surgery. Our program director was the perfect example of this... Watching his hands operate was an inspiring and humbling experience. Every movement was purposeful and definitive.

This soft tissue management crap really pisses me off, because those in the know are very well aware that the thinnest most delicate skin on the body is the eyelids [not the gingiva] and we operate on that all the time.

Yes, there are periodontists handle tissue ever so gently, but so do my general dentistry friends who perform soft tissue grafting and implant surgery. Soft tissue management, manual dexterity, and delicate cautious hands are not a god-given right of the periodontist. The only god-given right of the periodontist is that they endowed with small genitalia, small brains, and an unhealthy obsession of pretending to be gingival plastic surgeons.
 
Jaybe said:
Okay, so does anyone else out there know even a SINGLE oral surgeon with "delicate, cautious hands" and "manual dexterity". I think spirit hasn't yet realized that oral surgeons become oral surgeons because they DON'T have "delicate, cautious hands". They are definitely the 'Brutes' of dentistry. But I still love them.

Anybody?
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huh??? i disagree w/ you completely. sure some OMFS may have a "brute" and tell it like it is attitude, but don't associate that w/ a lack of clinical manual dexterity....my guess is you haven't spent much time in an OR....
 
i dont see why it would take gentle, skilled hands and manual dexterity to disect out the facial nerve, making sure not to cause any paresthesia, and be in the operating room for several hours. any monkey with brute strength could do that.
 
north2southOMFS said:
This tells me you don't know **** about good oral surgeons.
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Most of the good oral surgeons I know make sure and use a little ketamine or propafol in their patients' IV so that within 10 seconds or so amnesia sets in. This way they can let those "delicate, gentle hands" inject 8 carpules of anesthesia across four quadrants at warp speed. After about 20 - 30 seconds, which is all it takes for these hot shots to unceremoniously unload (via gentle, delicate, tender and deliberate hands) all 8 carpules, all the way eliciting excessive moaning and groaning from their amnesic patients.

Everybody knows a good asian massage parlor is were you find the truly "gentle, delicate hands". Not the OR.

Anybody???:D
 
doncorleone said:
i dont see why it would take gentle, skilled hands and manual dexterity to disect out the facial nerve, making sure not to cause any paresthesia, and be in the operating room for several hours. any monkey with brute strength could do that.
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I'm not even sure you'd have to be a monkey.
 
By the way, I need to hire someone to check my grammer in my posts. I've been hanging out in the intn'l forum too long or something
 
Jaybe said:
Most of the good oral surgeons I know make sure and use a little ketamine or propafol in their patients' IV so that within 10 seconds or so amnesia sets in. This way they can let those "delicate, gentle hands" inject 8 carpules of anesthesia across four quadrants at warp speed. After about 20 - 30 seconds, which is all it takes for these hot shots to unceremoniously unload (via gentle, delicate, tender and deliberate hands) all 8 carpules, all the way eliciting excessive moaning and groaning from their amnesic patients.

Everybody knows a good asian massage parlor is were you find the truly "gentle, delicate hands". Not the OR.

Anybody???:D
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even orthognathic surgery requires brute force at times to allow movements accurate to 1-2mm. now go bend some wires for practice or else you may jack up someone's presurgical ortho. :smuggrin:
 
Jaybe said:
Most of the good oral surgeons I know make sure and use a little ketamine or propafol in their patients' IV so that within 10 seconds or so amnesia sets in. This way they can let those "delicate, gentle hands" inject 8 carpules of anesthesia across four quadrants at warp speed. After about 20 - 30 seconds, which is all it takes for these hot shots to unceremoniously unload (via gentle, delicate, tender and deliberate hands) all 8 carpules, all the way eliciting excessive moaning and groaning from their amnesic patients.

Everybody knows a good asian massage parlor is were you find the truly "gentle, delicate hands". Not the OR.

Anybody???:D
Click to expand...


Oh young and uninformed. We do blow carpules into people while they are sedated. This has many reasons, one of which is who gives a **** if it is uncomfortable, they are sedated ******. Another is why would you give a carpule over 1-2 minutes when you are trying to keep the overall sedation time down, when they can't feel it anyway? You could try and make a "periodontist" like argument and say "it is less traumatic to the musculature" but i think time has proven that it doesn't really matter, and tell me.. why don't nurses give the flu shot over 1-2 minutes? And third, it does take those "brute" hand to get a big tooth out of a small hole. Show me a dentist who tries to get every tooth out using "light, tender, delicate pressure", and i'll show you he's a periodontist who is unsuccessfully trying to remove teeth.

I challenge you to go and watch a microvascular procedure. You can barely see the 11-0 suture, and the needle looks like a little metal shaving. How on earth could you not have good hands dealing with that? You are generalizing all of oral surgeons based on one procedure we do. Teeth. If you think all we learn to do in residency is take out wizdom teeth.

Once again..........

Young and ignorant.
 
north2southOMFS said:
We do blow carpules into people while they are sedated . . . who gives a **** if it is uncomfortable, they are sedated ****** . . . It does take those "brute" hand to get a big tooth out of a small hole.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...... I suppose these are the delicate, tender mutterings of a soft hearted, meek and deliberate OMS!

Point taken.
 
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