Canada's System sucks for you, but it is good enough for me

[lonelobo]

didnt CNN's Jim Acosta already prove walls work? And walls keep other things out too, like zombies. Gotta love the left's talking points getting regurgitated here....walls dont work, there is no national security threat, the crisis is manufactured, etc.
ks
Is it too late for common sense from the left? Cuz their credibility suck.

GOP Texas Rep. Will Hurd calls border 'crisis' a 'myth'

Well so much for your credibility.....as if there was a doubt

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[hyperalgesia]

a fence at tijuana makes sense. thermal scanners, strategic deployment of technology, etc makes sense. fences/walls at specific locations makes sense, too. 2000 miles of a wall is laughably stupid

This sounds a lot like what Trump said in his proposal. He said strategically placed barriers in combination with the other stuff.

His positions are utterly and deliberately distorted by a lot of "news" outlets.

 

[SSdoc33]

This sounds a lot like what Trump said in his proposal. He said strategically placed barriers in combination with the other stuff.

His positions are utterly and deliberately distorted by a lot of "news" outlets.

no, dude, he has no positions. first he said a wall. then he said it has to be concrete. then he said it doesnt. then he said steel. then he said not everywhere. also, he said it would be paid by mexico. remember that little stipulation?

how are democrats supposed to negotiate with that?

there is room for compromise, but the d-bag in the oval office is too inept to get anything done. this whole thing is for him to save face, rather than an actual legitimate policy battle. this is all about machismo. so so stupid

 

[deleted480308]

"free speech" is essential. i agree. foxnews should not be shut-down, even though many would say its content is propaganda. however, there are and need to be limits for the public good

What limits?

 

[SSdoc33]

What limits?

I realize your question is a set up to spew your libertarian nonsense, but ill play along.

i mentioned one already, but here are several others.

United States free speech exceptions - Wikipedia

 

[Doctodd]

GOP Texas Rep. Will Hurd calls border 'crisis' a 'myth'

Well so much for your credibility.....as if there was a doubt

are u trying to get a personal attack in there?...shocker.....TDS is strong in you....and you are just menstruating.

 

[Doctodd]

The whole point of having a free press and freedom of speech is to protect those who want to publish or speak about things that are NOT popular. The reason we have the 1st amendment at all is because the founding fathers were unhappy with the British suppression of unpopular and dangerous-to-the-public comments of the people in the colonies.

I also think it is "idiotic" that you cannot distinguish between the content of someone's speech and the necessity to preserve their right to say so.

when the mass media(90% of it) is employed by one party(Democrats) i dont know how you can call it free....they are bought and paid for

 

[hyperalgesia]

no, dude, he has no positions. first he said a wall. then he said it has to be concrete. then he said it doesnt. then he said steel. then he said not everywhere. also, he said it would be paid by mexico. remember that little stipulation?

how are democrats supposed to negotiate with that?

there is room for compromise, but the d-bag in the oval office is too inept to get anything done. this whole thing is for him to save face, rather than an actual legitimate policy battle. this is all about machismo. so so stupid

The point is that his proposal on the table is pretty much exactly what you said. It's perfectly reasonable. Forget about his ego and guessing his intentions. His ability to troll is his greatest strength.

 

[SSdoc33]

The point is that his proposal on the table is pretty much exactly what you said. It's perfectly reasonable. Forget about his ego and guessing his intentions. His ability to troll is his greatest strength.

show me that proposal

 

[deleted480308]

I realize your question is a set up to spew your libertarian nonsense, but ill play along.

i mentioned one already, but here are several others.

United States free speech exceptions - Wikipedia

So do you think free speech protects the right to say racist things despite the idiocy of racism

 

[SSdoc33]

So do you think free speech protects the right to say racist things despite the idiocy of racism

its a gray area. if the racism is outwardly offensive and could be used to incite violence, then no, it isnt protected. but in general, most racist commentary i see is nuanced and should be considered legal

 

[deleted480308]

its a gray area. if the racism is outwardly offensive and could be used to incite violence, then no, it isnt protected. but in general, most racist commentary i see is nuanced and should be considered legal

Offensive should literally never be part of the equation

Calls to violence, we agree on

 

[lonelobo]

are u trying to get a personal attack in there?...shocker.....TDS is strong in you....and you are just menstruating.

Your typical nonsense.... maybe if you would take the mushroom head out of your month...you could have some clarity

 

[Doctodd]

Your typical nonsense.... maybe if you would take the mushroom head out of your month...you could have some clarity

says the guy who felt the need to directly respond to me with a little jab...take your tampon out and gtfoh

 

[lonelobo]

My only " attack " was on your credibility in this matter...but as usual you continue to ignore facts and spew a party line. then throw in something about menstruation.......
Nice Stem Cell Scrubs by the way LFMAO

 

[powermd]

What limits?

I try to stay out these discussions because of how useless political discussions are on the internet, but this caught my attention.

How about bringing back the Fairness Doctrine, making it apply to any media calling itself "news", and requiring opinion pieces to be aired/presented separately. For example, Fox would need to create a separate channel for all their opinion crap. Same applies to CNN, NYT, MSNBC, etc. No more mingling of opinion with fact.

Maybe this is something different 'sides' can agree on?

 

[lonelobo]

Crime Did Fall, So We Don’t Need a Wall

 

[Ferrismonk]

when the mass media(90% of it) is employed by one party(Democrats) i dont know how you can call it free....they are bought and paid for

It's free because they can say whatever the hell they choose. Same with Fox or whatever other "news" organization you want. You could make your own "news" outlet and say whatever the hell you want too. It's upon the people to decide what is fact/fiction and who is worth listening to.

 

[deleted480308]

I try to stay out these discussions because of how useless political discussions are on the internet, but this caught my attention.

How about bringing back the Fairness Doctrine, making it apply to any media calling itself "news", and requiring opinion pieces to be aired/presented separately. For example, Fox would need to create a separate channel for all their opinion crap. Same applies to CNN, NYT, MSNBC, etc. No more mingling of opinion with fact.

Maybe this is something different 'sides' can agree on?

I would be for advertising pressure to do this but not govt, it would be better for confusion

 

[Ducttape]

Being not popular is distinctly different than being dangerous or endangering some one else’s life - like that “rights” argument.

To the best of my knowledge, one cannot post how to make a dirty nuke or poison a community water supply... or make threats to inflict bodily harm on, say, trump, without investigation

FWIW it is dribble and innuendo propagated by fox news that Acosta was supporting walls working, intentionally or not.

Tho it is not innuendo that trump stated that San Antonio’s wall was so helpful.
The one around the Alamo I guess....


Even if the wall were to be put in, I think we have much better use for the $21.6 billion it would cost to put it up, esp since McConnell is blaming entitlements for the trillion dollar debt

 

[hyperalgesia]

Why do you guys suppose this happened?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-union-endorses-trump/?utm_term=.6ad5272f7d38

 

[hyperalgesia]

I'm on vacation in Singapore now.

They have a very interesting model ..

Ranked #1 healthcare system in the world by WHO a few years ago. Massively subsidized housing with almost no homelessness.

All paid for by the spoils of free market capitalism, tax haven status, zero minimum wage, etc.

Socialists mostly happy, libertarians mostly happy...

 

[deleted480308]

I'm on vacation in Singapore now.

They have a very interesting model ..

Ranked #1 healthcare system in the world by WHO a few years ago. Massively subsidized housing with almost no homelessness.

All paid for by the spoils of free market capitalism, tax haven status, zero minimum wage, etc.

Socialists mostly happy, libertarians mostly happy...

There isn’t anything libertarian about massively tax subsidized housing and health care

 

[hyperalgesia]

There isn’t anything libertarian about massively tax subsidized housing and health care

These subsidies are fixed and predictable and apparently a small price to pay for taking the chains off the rest of the economy, with zero capital gains tax, no minimum wage, etc.

Of course Singapore takes other measures to ensure the model works. The burden of drug abuse on healthcare is low partly because of their laws. If a person is caught with over 30g of morphine (as one example), they are PRESUMED GUILTY of drug trafficking, which carries a MANDATORY death penalty. Yikes.

I doubt they have much tolerance for dead beats either.

I just brought it up because I think it shows how favorable tax and business policy can be used in conjunction with organized and responsible social measures.

 

[deleted480308]

These subsidies are fixed and predictable and apparently a small price to pay for taking the chains off the rest of the economy, with zero capital gains tax, no minimum wage, etc.

Of course Singapore takes other measures to ensure the model works. The burden of drug abuse on healthcare is low partly because of their laws. If a person is caught with over 30g of morphine (as one example), they are PRESUMED GUILTY of drug trafficking, which carries a MANDATORY death penalty. Yikes.

I doubt they have much tolerance for dead beats either.

I just brought it up because I think it shows how favorable tax and business policy can be used in conjunction with organized and responsible social measures.

I agree that a lot of people like the singapore model even if I don’t....I don’t get the impulse to call it libertarian

 

[Gauss]

I'm on vacation in Singapore now.

They have a very interesting model ..

Ranked #1 healthcare system in the world by WHO a few years ago. Massively subsidized housing with almost no homelessness.

All paid for by the spoils of free market capitalism, tax haven status, zero minimum wage, etc.

Socialists mostly happy, libertarians mostly happy...

similar to Switzerland
love the food but wouldn't want to live in singapore - COL is extremely high, housing is tiny, school competition is fierce - kids futures' used to be ranked exclusively on exam results: Children in Singapore will no longer be ranked by exam results. Here's why

"Hard as it may be to believe, decades ago Singapore was very impoverished, and one of the main initiatives of the government was to educate its citizens. But when Dr. Goh Keng Swee, one of Singapore’s ministers, would see hundreds of children streaming out of school at the end of the day, instead of being happy, he was heartbroken. He and the Singaporean government understood that simply attending school wasn’t enough. What would the students do after they graduated? How would the economy create and sustain jobs for all these newly educated children?"
Poverty data never tells the whole story

 

[drusso]

@hyperalgesia @Gauss both Singapore and Switzerland have very workable hybrid models. And, both countries have another thing in common: More local control of distribution of health care resources and access to private practice. Both countries have made effective use of "reference based pricing" too. Hospitals should be like the inter-state highway system: Socialized and for public use. Let everyone drive their Cadillacs and Toyotas on the same roads. Let people who can afford it upgrade to drive in the HOV lanes.

Medical Procedure USA Singapore Thailand
Heart Bypass $140,000 $25,000 $15,000
Hip Replacement $45,000 $13,000 $13,000
Knee Replacement $40,000 $15,000 $12,000

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

@hyperalgesia @Gauss both Singapore and Switzerland have very workable hybrid models. And, both countries have another thing in common: More local control of distribution of health care resources and access to private practice. Both countries have made effective use of "reference based pricing" too. Hospitals should be like the inter-state highway system: Socialized and for public use. Let everyone drive their Cadillacs and Toyotas on the same roads. Let people who can afford it upgrade to drive in the HOV lanes.

Medical Procedure USA Singapore Thailand
Heart Bypass $140,000 $25,000 $15,000
Hip Replacement $45,000 $13,000 $13,000
Knee Replacement $40,000 $15,000 $12,000

Or let the free market take a crack it at: Surgery Center of Oklahoma | Free market-loving, price-displaying, state-of-the-art, AAAHC accredited, doctor owned, multispecialty surgical facility in central OK.

Hip 16k
Knee 16k

 

[drusso]

Or let the free market take a crack it at: Surgery Center of Oklahoma | Free market-loving, price-displaying, state-of-the-art, AAAHC accredited, doctor owned, multispecialty surgical facility in central OK.

Hip 16k
Knee 16k

That's even better...

 

[Ducttape]

or this model.

Rochester Revisited: Community Collaboration for Health Care | H&HN

which did drastically deteriorate in the early 2000s because one administrator decided that free market was the better approach.

 

[deleted480308]

or this model.

Rochester Revisited: Community Collaboration for Health Care | H&HN

which did drastically deteriorate in the early 2000s because one administrator decided that free market was the better approach.

That's a long string of vagueness....do you have something with more specifics?

 

[SSdoc33]

Warren readies plan for tax on ‘ultra-millionaires’

im a reading this correctly? she wants to raid the bank accounts of the uber-rich? she want to take post-tax money? i can understand increasing the income tax RATES on the highest earners, but this looks like outright looting. am i wrong? that would be just pilfering 4 billion dollars from jeff bezos per year.

 

[DOctorJay]

Warren readies plan for tax on ‘ultra-millionaires’

im a reading this correctly? she wants to raid the bank accounts of the uber-rich? she want to take post-tax money? i can understand increasing the income tax RATES on the highest earners, but this looks like outright looting. am i wrong? that would be just pilfering 4 billion dollars from jeff bezos per year.

isn't this YOUR party, YOUR presidential candidate?

 

[SSdoc33]

isn't this YOUR party, YOUR presidential candidate?

my party, but one of twenty candidates all across the left side of the spectrum. this particular policy is garbage and out and out theft.

 

[DOctorJay]

your statement gives me hope

 

[cowboydoc]

Warren readies plan for tax on ‘ultra-millionaires’

im a reading this correctly? she wants to raid the bank accounts of the uber-rich? she want to take post-tax money? i can understand increasing the income tax RATES on the highest earners, but this looks like outright looting. am i wrong? that would be just pilfering 4 billion dollars from jeff bezos per year.

Who cares about economics, rights, ethics, constitutionality and crime. This plays well to a very large political base.

TDS and Democratic socialism marching to its logical conclusion.

 

[deleted480308]

Warren readies plan for tax on ‘ultra-millionaires’

im a reading this correctly? she wants to raid the bank accounts of the uber-rich? she want to take post-tax money? i can understand increasing the income tax RATES on the highest earners, but this looks like outright looting. am i wrong? that would be just pilfering 4 billion dollars from jeff bezos per year.

You’re cool with looting checks but not accounts? Either way, welcome to the “wth are you doing?” Club

 

[SSdoc33]

there is something different about going after post-tax money thats already in your account. i feel like that should be YOURS as long as you obtained it legally. with a progressive tax code, you know the rules and you know what to expect. you cant change the game like this.

i worry that trump has pushed the left too far over to the liz warrens and the bernie sanders of the world

 

[DOctorJay]

really??? Trump's fault?

 

[SSdoc33]

really??? Trump's fault?

trump has definitely swung democrats to the left

 

[cowboydoc]

there is something different about going after post-tax money thats already in your account. i feel like that should be YOURS as long as you obtained it legally. with a progressive tax code, you know the rules and you know what to expect. you cant change the game like this.

i worry that trump has pushed the left too far over to the liz warrens and the bernie sanders of the world

The closest I've come to agreeing with you on a political statement!

 

[Ducttape]

That's a long string of vagueness....do you have something with more specifics?

essentially, an hmo system using local community, business, and hospital collaboration that had significantly reduced costs. killed by 1 boss who decided that capturing market share was more important.
Cost-effective health care: the Rochester experience. - PubMed - NCBI

Health Aff (Millwood). 1993 Spring;12(1):58-69.
Cost-effective health care: the Rochester experience.
Hall WJ1, Griner PF.
Author information
1
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry, NY.
Abstract
Rochester, New York, has been cited repeatedly for having achieved one of the most cost-effective and efficient health care systems in the country. The determinants of the success of this system include a long history of comprehensive health planning; innovative hospital reimbursement programs; community-rated health insurance; and high levels of mutual cooperation among business, insurers, hospitals, and physicians. The Rochester system promotes the goals of access, quality, affordability, and provider satisfaction through a balanced approach to regulation and competition.

 

[Doctodd]

im still waiting on the democrats to go to Venezuela and experience socialism

 

[Doctodd]

trump has definitely swung democrats to the left

call it what u want...the left has been unhinged for years. Maybe Trump just trolled them enough to come out into the open. Throwing out due process, praising socialism, supporting illegal immigration....all the while using the liberal media to spout off this propaganda as "righteous and moral"....it really isnt that hard to see. But your hate blinds you.

I also hear Cuomo made abortion alot easier and legal to perform later in the pregnancy in NY. Soon it will be ok to abort a baby at crowning. You guys are nuts.

 

[deleted480308]

essentially, an hmo system using local community, business, and hospital collaboration that had significantly reduced costs. killed by 1 boss who decided that capturing market share was more important.
Cost-effective health care: the Rochester experience. - PubMed - NCBI

On my phone that is just an abstract, is there a whole article worth reading from a computer later?

 

[hyperalgesia]

Warren readies plan for tax on ‘ultra-millionaires’

im a reading this correctly? she wants to raid the bank accounts of the uber-rich? she want to take post-tax money? i can understand increasing the income tax RATES on the highest earners, but this looks like outright looting. am i wrong? that would be just pilfering 4 billion dollars from jeff bezos per year.

Part of her plan is also to impose a penalty on rich people trying to flee the country and get citizenship elsewhere - a 40% “exit tax” on all wealth above $50 million. Can you believe it? She wants to just confiscate your money if you try to escape. That is so East Berlin. I guess she's called Goofy Elizabeth Warren for a reason...

Elizabeth Warren Is Proposing a Wealth Tax On Fortunes Larger Than $50 Million

 

[Ducttape]

On my phone that is just an abstract, is there a whole article worth reading from a computer later?

there is a very nice little book on the "experiment".
Amazon product


i do have to agree with that liberals are more extreme nowadays. generally speaking, US politicians have been fairly mainstream, and not extreme.

the country - at least the portion that was able to capture the Electoral College - was able to vote in an extremist. the mainstream is apparently not acceptable. it has unbalanced our politics, and made extremism more the norm. as a result, liberals do not feel that they can be middle left - they have to act far left in response.

if we had elected Cruz (yuck), Rubio (meh), or Kasich (even though he is from OHIO...), our discussions would be much different and much more pleasant...

 

[hyperalgesia]

I'd like to see what would happen if the fed didn't tax individuals at all but instead taxed the states based on population (including illegal imm). And then otherwise, leave the states alone. For example, if you said every state owes 25k/head/year and they can distribute the burden however they like. A progressive state might have a 70% IT over 1 mil or whatever. And continue to allow "sanctuary cities".

Other states might do a "fair tax" VAT or some combo of taxes. Some states might say no cap gains tax, no min wage, etc. and use the proceeds to provide universal health care in their state.

States could then take some responsibility and stop blaming the fed for every problem they can't solve like healthcare and "income inequality".

I would just like to see a kind of laboratory where different ideas are tried...

 

[pastafan]

I would like the following tax system that would have 2 components. It would most likely provide more tax revenue than the government has ever had and also curtail illegal activities such as drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.

1. Enact a flat tax. Probably 6% would suffice.

2. Eliminate currency. All transactions would be on plastic.

This would allow taxes to be collected on every segment of the economy at an equal rate. All of the cash businesses that underreport/don't report income would now be taxed as would all of the illegal enterprises that never pay taxes.

 

[Ducttape]

I'd like to see what would happen if the fed didn't tax individuals at all but instead taxed the states based on population (including illegal imm). And then otherwise, leave the states alone. For example, if you said every state owes 25k/head/year and they can distribute the burden however they like. A progressive state might have a 70% IT over 1 mil or whatever. And continue to allow "sanctuary cities".

Other states might do a "fair tax" VAT or some combo of taxes. Some states might say no cap gains tax, no min wage, etc. and use the proceeds to provide universal health care in their state.

States could then take some responsibility and stop blaming the fed for every problem they can't solve like healthcare and "income inequality".

I would just like to see a kind of laboratory where different ideas are tried...

current status:
2018’s Most & Least Federally Dependent States
generally speaking, "Red" states and "sunbelt states" appear to be more dependent on fed dollars.

in fact, most unbalanced states - ones that gave more to the feds than they got back - are in the NE (ie NY and NJ).
The States That Give and Get the Most Federal Dollars