Can MDs be trained to spay / neuter?

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Of course.

You are tweaking one of the most uptight of professions. The responses should be pretty predictable. Pavlovian, even.

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Posting the question on two separate forums, might be considered cross-posting, which isn't allowed on SDN. Posting a topic in order incite inflammatory responses, which you discussed in this forum, could be considered trolling, which also isn't allowed on SDN.

Mad respect for the DVMs ... but if you keep it up the threads will be closed.

Uh oh, we've attracted the security guards :scared: ...RUN!!!!
 
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The difference between the question ‘Could MDs help spay/neuter?' and ‘Could vets help do human surgery?' is the patients. You can't put Grandma to sleep, because she will never recover fully from the surgery. Not only that, but Grandma's children are going to sue you for your gross negligence. This example serves to illustrate the value that we, as a society, place on people. The reality of the situation is we place considerably more value in people than we do in animals: Most people feel more loss when our parents, spouse, or children die than we do when our dog dies. However, just because the MD can save Grandma and vets can only save Fluffy doesn't mean that vets are inferior to MDs. We all practice the same thing: Medicine. Practicing medicine is the same, but the way in which we do it is a little different. Physiology and anatomy both overlap and diverge. There are different diseases and diseases are treated differently. Things that happen in human medicine affect vet med and vice versa.

How this became a turf issue, I don't understand. There will always be clients who come in with this information they got from wikipedia, or even google scholar/pubmed and ‘why aren't you doing that?' A human doctor is merely a more educated example of this ‘Why can't you treat Fluffy with X medication that I give all my patients that have this problem?' It's your job as the vet to explain to them why that isn't necessarily the best option in your professional opinion. Normal clients and MDs alike can choose to ignore your advice and find another vet. That's their decision, not an attack on your skills as a veterinarian, just as you asking for a second opinion with an MD because you read a study about the best way to treat X cancer is with Y treatment is not an attack on their skills. Everyone tries to do the best they can given what they know. It's shouldn't be about turf.
 
You can't put Grandma to sleep, because she will never recover fully from the surgery.

An important point. Note that tkim's avatar says "admit?" and "send home?", but not "euth?". The potential cost of an MD screwing up a spay on a feral cat is not nearly as high as the potential cost of a vet screwing up a surgery on a human.
 
An important point. Note that tkim's avatar says "admit?" and "send home?", but not "euth?". The potential cost of an MD screwing up a spay on a feral cat is not nearly as high as the potential cost of a vet screwing up a surgery on a human.

Heh. About that avatar. It's a little inside joke about life 'in the fishbowl (ED)'. It actually isn't supposed to be serious. It's actually pretty insulting. But funny, nonetheless.

Here's the full article:

http://www.qfever.com/issues/20020206/erdocs.html

ER Doc Faces Complex Decisions
Patients could be admitted or sent home... but which?

HARRISBURG, PA--Dr. Jerry Baylor's been making decisions that affect people's lives since seven this morning, and his day isn't over yet. It's only 4 PM, and he's got three hours left to go.

But Baylor, an emergency physician at Harrisburg's Mt. Holyoke Hospital, isn't thinking about going home. He's preoccupied with the tough choices he's facing for the six patients currently under his care.

"In Bed 3," he says, "we've got a woman with a cough and a fever. If her X-Ray comes back positive for pneumonia, I'm admitting her. Otherwise, she might be able to go home. We'll see how she does."

"Then, in Bed 8, there's this guy with some pain in his leg. If the ultrasound shows a DVT, he may get admitted. Otherwise, I'll probably send him home."

And on it goes. Baylor, who prefers to be called an "emergentologist," says he's become accustomed to the challenging dilemmas he encounters every day.

"At first, it was a little daunting," he says. "The first time I had to decide whether a patient should be admitted or not, I almost cried. It was that stressful."

"But after a while, I began to realize that, for the patients that were sick enough to be admitted, most of the real work would be done by the doctors who actually did the admitting - the ones who would actually be taking care of the patient and making them better."

"Also," he adds, "it helps that I don't need to decide which lab tests to order - we just get a full panel for everyone, including cardiac enzymes, troponin levels, thyroid studies, and cholesterol, no matter what they present with."

He says the decision-making skills he's been honing at work has helped him in other areas of his life too.

"When my daughter has a cold, for instance, I instantly fall back on my medical training to make the decision: go to school, or stay home? I can make that determination in about twenty minutes now... ten, if I can get a stat chest film."

But there's one choice Baylor never has any difficulty making.

"When signout's over at 7:15 PM, I'm faced with either staying a bit and helping out with the patients I was seeing, or heading out the door ASAP," he explains.

He pauses to laugh. "And that, my friend, is the easiest decision of all."
 
Heh. About that avatar. It's a little inside joke about life 'in the fishbowl (ED)'. It actually isn't supposed to be serious. It's actually pretty insulting. But funny, nonetheless.

Here's the full article:

http://www.qfever.com/issues/20020206/erdocs.html

ER Doc Faces Complex Decisions
Patients could be admitted or sent home... but which?

HARRISBURG, PA--Dr. Jerry Baylor's been making decisions that affect people's lives since seven this morning, and his day isn't over yet. It's only 4 PM, and he's got three hours left to go.

But Baylor, an emergency physician at Harrisburg's Mt. Holyoke Hospital, isn't thinking about going home. He's preoccupied with the tough choices he's facing for the six patients currently under his care.

"In Bed 3," he says, "we've got a woman with a cough and a fever. If her X-Ray comes back positive for pneumonia, I'm admitting her. Otherwise, she might be able to go home. We'll see how she does."

"Then, in Bed 8, there's this guy with some pain in his leg. If the ultrasound shows a DVT, he may get admitted. Otherwise, I'll probably send him home."

And on it goes. Baylor, who prefers to be called an "emergentologist," says he's become accustomed to the challenging dilemmas he encounters every day.

"At first, it was a little daunting," he says. "The first time I had to decide whether a patient should be admitted or not, I almost cried. It was that stressful."

"But after a while, I began to realize that, for the patients that were sick enough to be admitted, most of the real work would be done by the doctors who actually did the admitting - the ones who would actually be taking care of the patient and making them better."

"Also," he adds, "it helps that I don't need to decide which lab tests to order - we just get a full panel for everyone, including cardiac enzymes, troponin levels, thyroid studies, and cholesterol, no matter what they present with."

He says the decision-making skills he's been honing at work has helped him in other areas of his life too.

"When my daughter has a cold, for instance, I instantly fall back on my medical training to make the decision: go to school, or stay home? I can make that determination in about twenty minutes now... ten, if I can get a stat chest film."

But there's one choice Baylor never has any difficulty making.

"When signout's over at 7:15 PM, I'm faced with either staying a bit and helping out with the patients I was seeing, or heading out the door ASAP," he explains.

He pauses to laugh. "And that, my friend, is the easiest decision of all."


I enjoyed that article. Sometimes we don't realize just how stressful some jobs are ;)
 
It's a little inside joke about life 'in the fishbowl (ED)'. It actually isn't supposed to be serious. It's actually pretty insulting. But funny, nonetheless.

Heehee- inside joke or not, I still say that euthanasia is not a commonly-considered treatment plan in human medicine :)
 
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