Boosting my GPA!!

[futuredoctor727]

Okay....soo after speaking to people on the admissions committee at several schools....i've decided that im going to take classes in order to increase my Science GPA. They've all instructed me to take upper division science courses...but I'm not exactly sure what courses I should take. If anyone has any suggestions....PLEASE let me know....im in desperate need of some guidance.....

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[Blade28]

Well it depends on a lot of factors.

Are you going to retake any classes?

What is your current GPA?

Which areas are you weak in?

 

[pistachio]

Take Biochem. You'll have a head start for med school, and it's upper level. Also suggested are physiology (try to take the one that the PhD students take) and cell/molecular biology. These are all things that will give you a head start for first year, and if you do well, that's evidence that you can handle those classes once your in med school.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Take Biochem. You'll have a head start for med school, and it's upper level. Also suggested are physiology (try to take the one that the PhD students take) and cell/molecular biology. These are all things that will give you a head start for first year, and if you do well, that's evidence that you can handle those classes once your in med school.

Definitely agree with # 2 & 3 as I just finished them. At my school, anatomy & physiology were combined; there was less of a benefit to this I think than if I could have ONLY taken physiology. Anatomy (among other things) taught me the names and locations of around 50 cat muscles on our dissection pet. Interesting, but not totally relevant I don't think.

I've heard Biochem is great, another one to consider would be Genetics. I can't see how any most advanced chemistry or physics courses would help much with preparing you for med school, so I'd suggest sticking with biology or possibly a chemistry/biology crossover type class if available.

 

[DrBubbles]

In the general sense, I agree with the above posters. Anatomy & Physiology totally helps give you the vocabulary for med school A&P, Biochem, and Genetics would be my top three.

If you GPA is below a 3.3, I would say taking undergrad classes is definitely the way to go. Some schools even have formal post-bac courses, and some med schools have post bac programs; my school has one for minorities, and if you pass their post-bac courses, you get an automatic acceptance.

If your GPA is above a 3.3, consider applying to SMPs, and getting a master's degree out of it. Best of luck!

 

[futuredoctor727]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!!!....

Okay..so to start...my gpa is low...like my science GPA right now is a 2.53...yea i know horrible. im not going to take n e classes over though..because i dont think that would benefit me much. ive taken a comparative anatomy course which basically dealt with animal dissections...sooo taking a anatomy and phys. class might be a good idea. ive taken genetics already along with population genetics...so im guessing biochemistry is a definite course to take. i've never taken molecular or cell bio...so ill prolly try to get in either of those...or both. i was told that i should take 2 classes spring semester and then 2 fall semester along with improving upon my MCAT score...and then i should be eligible as long as i receive >3.5.

now...because im only taking 4 classes for the whole year...i was thinking that i should try to volunteer or work in a hospital...any suggestions? im very involved with non-profit organizations but im thinking i should get more involved with something medical related to build up my resume.....

 

[DrBubbles]

Sounds like you've got some great ideas. However, based on your science gpa, I would encourage you to consider retaking your lowest grade pre-med pre-reqs. While you may not feel it'll benefit you much, it will do the following:
1) be easier to get a good grade because you've seen the material before
2) show med schools you're capable of learning the core material
3) prepare you for the mcat

Once you get above a 3.0, then I'd consider taking some upper level bio courses, like you said: A&P, biochem, etc.

Retaking the MCAT is a fine idea, and volunteering is too. Do you have any clinical experience? That's key. Shadowing a physician (preferably in a field that interests you) is a great experience, and med schools like to see it.

Best of luck!

 

[Blade28]

Okay..so to start...my gpa is low...like my science GPA right now is a 2.53...yea i know horrible. im not going to take n e classes over though..because i dont think that would benefit me much. ive taken a comparative anatomy course which basically dealt with animal dissections...sooo taking a anatomy and phys. class might be a good idea. ive taken genetics already along with population genetics...so im guessing biochemistry is a definite course to take. i've never taken molecular or cell bio...so ill prolly try to get in either of those...or both. i was told that i should take 2 classes spring semester and then 2 fall semester along with improving upon my MCAT score...and then i should be eligible as long as i receive >3.5.

If your current science GPA is 2.53 after three years, you've definitely got your work cut out for you. Get straight As during all of senior year, assuming the same average number of credits, and your GPA will only increase to 2.90 (better, but still not great). Are you planning on applying to DO schools? If you retake a class they'll take the newer (hopefully higher) grade and drop the lower one - this can significantly improve your GPA.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that you can raise your GPA to a 3.5...maybe I misunderstood you and you've only gone through two years of college? In that case, two years of straight As would get you to 3.27 - an extra year of straight As would improve your GPA to 3.41, and ANOTHER year on top of that would get you to 3.51.

Either way, no matter what you decide, best of luck.

 

[futuredoctor727]

LOL to Blade......

I've already graduated....so I'm just taking post bacc classes to obtain a new GPA...but it' s not under a particular program...im just taking them as a non-degree seeking student...

To Bubbles....

I've worked in a Pediatrician's office...which is what I'm aspiring to be...soo I'll probably try to find something like that again...

Thanks Again!!!

 

[Blade28]

Ah...so the 2.53 GPA is from all of your undergrad work?

Well taking post-bac classes to improve your GPA is a step in the right direction though. You've got your work cut out for you, so study hard, pace yourself, and best of luck!

 

[paperdoll25]

LOL to Blade......

I've already graduated....so I'm just taking post bacc classes to obtain a new GPA...but it' s not under a particular program...im just taking them as a non-degree seeking student...

If you don't mind me asking, how are you paying for your classes? Private loans, out of pocket, etc...?
I'm in a similar situation and I am having trouble deciding what to do and how to fund it.

 

[seva86]

I'm in a similar boat...my GPA is a 2.66 but I can't afford a formal post-bacc program. Instead, I may just retake all my courses at a community college which would be substantially cheaper. Given the CC I'm looking at is a very good school, I feel I would be just as prepared as anyone else.

 

[DrBubbles]

I'm in a similar boat...my GPA is a 2.66 but I can't afford a formal post-bacc program. Instead, I may just retake all my courses at a community college which would be substantially cheaper. Given the CC I'm looking at is a very good school, I feel I would be just as prepared as anyone else.

Retaking your pre-med courses is a great option, but check around with some of the med schools you're interested in to find out if they accept pre-reqs from a community college--I'm not positive they do. With that said, the way I funded my extra courses was to work full-time and take one course at a time. However, at the risk of time and burn-out, I would encourage you to work part-time, and take two classes at a time. My boyfriend did a formal post-bac program, but he did work about 25-30 hours/week, and took two classes at a time. It took him 2 1/2 years to fulfill all his pre-reqs, including biochem, genetics, and calculus.

 

[Nasem]

I just planned my "upper division" sciences for Fall 2008 & Spring 2009, I am gearing to apply next year

Here are the sciences I'll be taking,
Biochem I, Genetics, Genetics lab, Anatomy, Immunology, and I might be able to squeeze either microbio or physiology

I too have been advised to take upper level sciences by many medical school advisors. My Undergrad GPA from 2004 was a sh!!!y 3.01 with 136 credits.... been doing my post-bacc since Spring 2007 and pushed out 21 credits worth of all my chemisties / organics and all thier labs combined and knocked off 4.0s in every single one..... and my overall GPA now is a whooper 3.14 (IT TAKES FOREVERRRRR TO RAISE THIS GPA, AS YOU CAN SEE, MINE IS STILL IN THE CRAPPER).... However, my Science is pretty good (3.4 for MD, and 3.7+ for DO)....

After doing all my upper sciences, and suppose I obtain a 3.8 in all of them (I could suppose say 4.0, but I am giving myself a little bit of leeway)...
My overall will be pushed to 3.2 - 3.25 and my science will be pushed to 3.5-3.7+

 

[iloveimmunoblot]

I'm in the same boat and I was wondering if anyone has any advice as to what I should do. I have a 3.3 Cum, 3.1 BCPM, and I'm currently working at the NIH as a post-bac IRTA in an immunology lab with the hope of at least one publication by the time I leave. I have had 160 hrs+ clinical experience and I was an Residential Advisor for 3 years during undergrad. Since I'm in Maryland for the year I was planning on taking some classes at a community college or at any nearby schools that offer upper level Bio courses. If anyone is familiar with the area and has suggestions that would be great. Also, what should I aim for in my GPA to have a decent shot at MD and/or DO? Thanks!

 

[Blade28]

I have a 3.3 Cum, 3.1 BCPM, and I'm currently working at the NIH as a post-bac IRTA in an immunology lab with the hope of at least one publication by the time I leave.
...
Also, what should I aim for in my GPA to have a decent shot at MD and/or DO? Thanks!

The mean GPA for allopathic matriculants hovers at around 3.65. So you've definitely got your work cut out for you - assuming your 3.3/3.1 GPA is after four years of undergrad, a full year of straight As will only bring you up to 3.44/3.28 - better, but still below average. Two years' worth of As will bring you up to 3.53/3.40.

But that's your best bet - bring that GPA up! If you're applying DO then retaking classes will further improve your GPA as they only take the most recent grade.

 

[iloveimmunoblot]

Thanks Blade for the input. I was planning on taking classes at CC and then also applying to an MS program to get that GPA up as you said. Are you aware of any good 1-2 year MS programs that would help me in this respect? Should I also take some non-science courses at the CC, or is it most efficient to focus on science classes to raise my BCPM and cum GPA simultaneously? Thanks again!

 

[Blade28]

Thanks Blade for the input. I was planning on taking classes at CC and then also applying to an MS program to get that GPA up as you said. Are you aware of any good 1-2 year MS programs that would help me in this respect? Should I also take some non-science courses at the CC, or is it most efficient to focus on science classes to raise my BCPM and cum GPA simultaneously? Thanks again!

A Master's program won't help - your undergrad GPA is kept separate from any graduate courses you may take. Only post-bac classes (or more undergrad work) help improve your GPA. And a Master's degree is only considered a "nice" extra-curricular - so it doesn't help that much.

The exception to this is an SMP.

 

[futuredoctor727]

PaperDoll....im going to see what kind of financial aid i can get...but the majority will prolly be out of pocket.....

Nasem....immunology is a good idea...thanks for that one. do u have to improve your MCAT score also?

ILOVEIMMUNOBLOT......u could take classes a UDC...my friend took some nursing classes that weren't offered at our school there...and she said they weren't that expensive.....

 

[DrBubbles]

I'm in the same boat and I was wondering if anyone has any advice as to what I should do. I have a 3.3 Cum, 3.1 BCPM, and I'm currently working at the NIH as a post-bac IRTA in an immunology lab with the hope of at least one publication by the time I leave. I have had 160 hrs+ clinical experience and I was an Residential Advisor for 3 years during undergrad. Since I'm in Maryland for the year I was planning on taking some classes at a community college or at any nearby schools that offer upper level Bio courses. If anyone is familiar with the area and has suggestions that would be great. Also, what should I aim for in my GPA to have a decent shot at MD and/or DO? Thanks!

So, taking classes to boost your gpa is certainly a good idea. I encourage you to check into the community college thing, though, some schools frown upon CC courses, and some just don't take them into account. Your GPA is high enough that you could do an SMP and be competitive at DO and likely MD programs. So, figure out which route, either one of these or some other, you want to go, and then figure out if you truly need to/want to take classes this year--you might be able to have your evenings off for the last time ever, which is wonderful for reflection, self-discovery, growth, and renewed motivation. Best of luck!

 

[Truffles]

Hi, I'm new here and this was exactly the post that I wanted to find.

First, I want to thank DrBubbles and Blade28 for taking the time out of their busy schedules to give helpful advice, thank you very much.

So, here is my story, kinda long, sorry. I have a BS in Zoology, but unfortunately graduated with a 2.85 cumulative GPA and 2.97 sciences GPA. Absolutely terrible, and it really hurts to see those numbers. I was immature, didn't take school seriously, never studied, hardly went to class, etc. But, I am willing to do whatever it takes to get to medical school. I've volunteered in the ER for a little over a year and a half and I'm so amazed and fascinated by what I've seen and observed that it has inspired me to pursue medicine to make a positive difference in people's lives.

So, my question is, where do I go from here? I didn't realize DO schools take the most recent course grades, so I have no problem retaking all the prereqs. I am confident I will do well in them as I have the drive, and the motivation to actually study hard this time around and earn high marks.

I would like to retake the prereqs at the local CC as money is tight right now, however, I don't know if/what DO schools will accept grades from CC. If I have to borrow money to retake classes at my university, then I will do that too. Although, since I already graduated, am I supposed to declare a new major or something? Stupid question, I know, but I have no clue. I guess I need to start e-mailing admissions people.

Anyway, I just bought the Exam Krackers home study guide a couple weeks ago. I have been studying about 3-4 hours a night. It's going good and I can already tell that Verbal and Physics is going to be my toughest/weakest areas.

Right now, I feel like I am trying to climb Mount Everest, lol. I mean, I have a low GPA, little ECs, no one that could write me a LOR, and I haven't taken the MCAT yet. Not to mention I'm already 30 years old. I try not to think about this while I'm studying the MCAT, but my goodness, it can be so demoralizing.

Academically, the only thing I can hang my hat on is the fact that I actually managed to graduate and was one of 21 students in a 220 person Anatomy course to get a 4.0. And one of only two people to get 100% on the midterm, yipeeee. I feel so pathetic, argh...

Any help, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys, take care.

 

[Nasem]

Hi, I'm new here and this was exactly the post that I wanted to find.

First, I want to thank DrBubbles and Blade28 for taking the time out of their busy schedules to give helpful advice, thank you very much.

So, here is my story, kinda long, sorry. I have a BS in Zoology, but unfortunately graduated with a 2.85 cumulative GPA and 2.97 sciences GPA. Absolutely terrible, and it really hurts to see those numbers. I was immature, didn't take school seriously, never studied, hardly went to class, etc. But, I am willing to do whatever it takes to get to medical school. I've volunteered in the ER for a little over a year and a half and I'm so amazed and fascinated by what I've seen and observed that it has inspired me to pursue medicine to make a positive difference in people's lives.

So, my question is, where do I go from here? I didn't realize DO schools take the most recent course grades, so I have no problem retaking all the prereqs. I am confident I will do well in them as I have the drive, and the motivation to actually study hard this time around and earn high marks.

I would like to retake the prereqs at the local CC as money is tight right now, however, I don't know if/what DO schools will accept grades from CC. If I have to borrow money to retake classes at my university, then I will do that too. Although, since I already graduated, am I supposed to declare a new major or something? Stupid question, I know, but I have no clue. I guess I need to start e-mailing admissions people.

Anyway, I just bought the Exam Krackers home study guide a couple weeks ago. I have been studying about 3-4 hours a night. It's going good and I can already tell that Verbal and Physics is going to be my toughest/weakest areas.

Right now, I feel like I am trying to climb Mount Everest, lol. I mean, I have a low GPA, little ECs, no one that could write me a LOR, and I haven't taken the MCAT yet. Not to mention I'm already 30 years old. I try not to think about this while I'm studying the MCAT, but my goodness, it can be so demoralizing.

Academically, the only thing I can hang my hat on is the fact that I actually managed to graduate and was one of 21 students in a 220 person Anatomy course to get a 4.0. And one of only two people to get 100% on the midterm, yipeeee. I feel so pathetic, argh...

Any help, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys, take care.

If you’re from East Lansing (by the way, so Am I), then you should know that MSUCOM respects the science departments of Lansing Community college (which is like 5 minutes away from MSU).... I know this because I've spoken directly with the medical admission advisors of MSUCOM and asked those whats the best way for me to be competitive at their schools.... Of course, they didn't suggest for me to take classes at Lansing Community college, but they did tell me that if Im tight on time, I can take a few of my sciences at the community college and they would be ok with that.....

Here is one suggestion MSUCOM told me... they said retaking courses is a sure way to up your UG gpa, which is a nice thing to have... but when they see students who have lower UG GPAs like you & me, the next thing they look for is not exactly if you retook your classes and increased your numbers, but rather how many upper division sciences you've taken and how well you did in them....

I was in a similar situation almost 2 years ago, I had a BS degree in computer science with an overall GPA of 3.01, and science was (3.1 MD, and about 3.3 DO), I ended up taking most of my pre-med reqs for a first time as a post-bacc student at MSU (I decided to do the university bath rather than the community college because I am applying to 15-20 schools and I wanna make sure I get all my bases covered).... So after finishing all my general chemistries, organics, physics, and all their labs at the university level, THEN I started to go for the only 2 remaining pre-med classes at Lansing community college which are biology 1 & 2 and it’s because MSU never offers these courses at a decent time for me to schedule them along with my fulltime job.

 

[Blade28]

I agree with the above post.

Taking post-bac classes - especially upper-division ones - to improve your GPA is probably the best thing you can do right now. You also absolutely have to rock the MCAT.

Know that the mean GPA for matriculants is around a 3.65 so you've got some work ahead of you. It's good that you're also considering applying to DO schools as they will indeed take your most recent grade if you're retaking any classes.

If you get your GPA slightly above 3.0 you may also want to consider an SMP program - but know that you'll then be competing with other pre-meds hungry to go to med school...do well and you're greatly increasing your chances at being accepted to med school; do badly and you're really jeopardizing any last shot you may have.

Best of luck!

 

[Truffles]

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.

Yes Nasem, I am also from East Lansing and it sounds like you are doing very well on your path to med school. Great job and keep it up. Best of luck in your classes this year and on the MCAT. And thanks again for your post.

As of right now I am leaning towards retaking my pre-reqs at LCC. I plan on retaking Biology 2, Inorganic Chem 2, Orgo 2, and Physics 1. I obviously did poorly in these classes, and my science undergrad GPA without them is a 3.55.

After that, I'll start taking upper-division courses at MSU. Although, I'm not sure if I'm just better off taking upper-division science courses (Genetics, Biochem, Phsiology,etc.) as opposed to retaking pre-reqs.

 

[FutureDocDO]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!!!....

Okay..so to start...my gpa is low...like my science GPA right now is a 2.53...yea i know horrible. im not going to take n e classes over though..because i dont think that would benefit me much. ive taken a comparative anatomy course which basically dealt with animal dissections...sooo taking a anatomy and phys. class might be a good idea. ive taken genetics already along with population genetics...so im guessing biochemistry is a definite course to take. i've never taken molecular or cell bio...so ill prolly try to get in either of those...or both. i was told that i should take 2 classes spring semester and then 2 fall semester along with improving upon my MCAT score...and then i should be eligible as long as i receive >3.5.

now...because im only taking 4 classes for the whole year...i was thinking that i should try to volunteer or work in a hospital...any suggestions? im very involved with non-profit organizations but im thinking i should get more involved with something medical related to build up my resume.....

The fastest way to raise your GPA is to retake classes you didn't do well on and absolutely sure you could get an A on the second time around. Taking a few new classes to raise your 120-something credit is not going to make a dent in it.

 

[oreosandsake]

sprinkle in some easy lower div science classes to speed up the process...

"astronomy" and "earth sciences" are two that come to mind

 

[DrBubbles]

Truffles--kudos for sticking with it. It's totally possible. Being older is an advantage for you right now. Hopefully you've done something over the past eight years other than sit on your couch (or worse, someone else's). These will be assets. You claim to have few ECs, but a year-and-a-half in the ED is great! Think about shadowing a physician too (at least an osteopath--required for DO apps, and an allopath if possible). Anyhow, any jobs you've stuck with, any skills you've picked up, things you've committed to--they're all good to have on your app.

Now, you can retake the courses you did poorly in, and then take some upper division courses. Don't take the MCAT yet. Wait till you've got your pre-reqs under your belt, and you're closer to applying.

Another decision you have to make is whether or not you want to do school part-time and work your way through, or do a formal post-bac pre-req program, take out some loans, and get it done quicker. Or you can do both. My boyfriend did the one at Loyola University Chicago--he took two classes each semester, took a class each summer term, and worked 25-30 hours a week. He took Calculus I & II, Genetics, and Biochemistry outside the pre-reqs, and it took him 2.5 years.

Anyhow, best of luck. I do agree that DO is a great bet since they look at your most recent grades--figure out what's most important to you.

 

[mbe36]

I you really want to show improvement I would avoid taking courses at CC's. No matter how well-respected the CC may be most of the med schools you apply to will not take it into account. They may view it as you finding the easiest way to boost your GPA. I would not recommend it.

 

[JohnDoe1]

I you really want to show improvement I would avoid taking courses at CC's. No matter how well-respected the CC may be most of the med schools you apply to will not take it into account. They may view it as you finding the easiest way to boost your GPA. I would not recommend it.

I have to make a decision of where to take upper level undergraduate science courses. I can take 2 of them at a "top" university, but the courses are mid day during the week, and I would have to cut back on work. Or, I can take them at a local 4 year college at night/on weekends. It is not a community college, but it is clearly not ranked as well as the "top" university. What are your thoughts?

 

[jasminealove]

In the general sense, I agree with the above posters. Anatomy & Physiology totally helps give you the vocabulary for med school A&P, Biochem, and Genetics would be my top three.

If you GPA is below a 3.3, I would say taking undergrad classes is definitely the way to go. Some schools even have formal post-bac courses, and some med schools have post bac programs; my school has one for minorities, and if you pass their post-bac courses, you get an automatic acceptance.

If your GPA is above a 3.3, consider applying to SMPs, and getting a master's degree out of it. Best of luck!

What school do you attend? I am interested in learning more about the post-bac program that your school offers where you can get an automatic acceptance if you perform well..

Thanks

 

[nibiru6]

okay....soo after speaking to people on the admissions committee at several schools....i've decided that im going to take classes in order to increase my science gpa. They've all instructed me to take upper division science courses...but i'm not exactly sure what courses i should take. If anyone has any suggestions....please let me know....im in desperate need of some guidance.....

epic fail

 

[thame]

Does anyone know if you take post-bacc classes, do those classes factor into you undergraduate GPA or will amcas list your undergraduate and post-bacc gpa's separately?

 

[genswim24]

Does anyone know if you take post-bacc classes, do those classes factor into you undergraduate GPA or will amcas list your undergraduate and post-bacc gpa's separately?

Post-bac grades are factored into your undergraduate GPA. Since these are undergraduate courses they marked as such.

SMP grades are factored into your graduate school GPA.

Hope that helps

 

[gman33]

Does anyone know if you take post-bacc classes, do those classes factor into you undergraduate GPA or will amcas list your undergraduate and post-bacc gpa's separately?

Post-bacc are included in overall UG gpa, but they are also listed in a separate category. Some schools will look at your app more favorably if you have a strong GPA in the post-bacc. In most cases, you need to get the overall GPA as high as possible as well.
For example: a 4.0 in post-bacc won't help much if your overall UG GPA is 3.0.

 

[Vihsadas]

Post-bacc are included in overall UG gpa, but they are also listed in a separate category. Some schools will look at your app more favorably if you have a strong GPA in the post-bacc. In most cases, you need to get the overall GPA as high as possible as well.
For example: a 4.0 in post-bacc won't help much if your overall UG GPA is 3.0.

Well I think it depends on the rest of the app to be honest. If the applicant shows a strong trend in his last year or two (including his post-bacc), but more importantly has done many other things in those two years indicating a commitment to medicine, supplements his grade trend with a high MCAT, and maybe some research with a few independent endeavors, that applicant could have a very compelling story to tell. To compare, my Ugrad GPA without my post-bacc is about a 3.23 or something like that. It is because my application tells a very strong story, however, that I think I've had success so far.

 

[dragonfly99]

there's a significant difference between a 2.53 and 3.2 GPA.

 

[Vihsadas]

there's a significant difference between a 2.53 and 3.2 GPA.

There's a very significant difference. The post I quoted was talking about a 3.0 though (which is still slightly different).

 

[nick_carraway]

Well I think it depends on the rest of the app to be honest. If the applicant shows a strong trend in his last year or two (including his post-bacc), but more importantly has done many other things in those two years indicating a commitment to medicine, supplements his grade trend with a high MCAT, and maybe some research with a few independent endeavors, that applicant could have a very compelling story to tell. To compare, my Ugrad GPA without my post-bacc is about a 3.23 or something like that. It is because my application tells a very strong story, however, that I think I've had success so far.

Vihsadas, you're at Georgetown SMP right now, correct?

It's great to see such a positive reaction to your application since undergrad. And it's very reassuring to see current SMPers getting interviews so early.

 

[Vihsadas]

Vihsadas, you're at Georgetown SMP right now, correct?

It's great to see such a positive reaction to your application since undergrad. And it's very reassuring to see current SMPers getting interviews so early.

No, I decided not to go. I was accepted both to the UCinci SMP and the Gtown SMP but I chose not to attend. For me, there would have been no personal motivation to "prove" to myself that I could handle the medical school course load. I feel like I've done that already with my previous two years along with the amount of activities I was pursuing during that time. If I had gone to the SMP, it would not have been for "me" persay, it would have really just been something else to put down on my resume (not to mention 50K extra debt!) I dunno, I guess in the end I wasn't too into that idea. In reality, I think I've gotten a lot more perspective out of life by doing things in my life that I really enjoy and feel a sense of reward in doing. I work in a hospital research laboratory and also have my hands in a few ventures aimed at helping future pre-meds (organizing a shadowing program) along with volunteering. In addition, I'm glad that I still have time (that I may not have had in an SMP due to the pressure) to keep on doing my music thing and my athletics thing.

So don't use my app to promote current SMP programs! Although, I still do think that the SMP is a great option.

 

[dragonfly99]

vihsadas
I just looked at your resume page thing...
I think that you will get in to a school this year. I think with >6 interviews, anyone would have a very good chance. I think your MCAT score, which is quite high, is helping you, as is your research background. Best of luck!

 

[LuvPink]

Ok, so I've applied to DO schools and so far have been getting rejection letters which is understandable since I got a 21 MCAT and have a 3.1 overall gpa and 2.8 science gpa. I will be retaking my MCAT in January and I'm graduating in May and I'm not sure what to do. Should I do an SMP and reapply next year? Can I even retake the classes I did not do so well on after I graduate or what can I do?
AAHHHH I'm feeling kinda lost right now

 

[ILikeFood]

Ok, so I've applied to DO schools and so far have been getting rejection letters which is understandable since I got a 21 MCAT and have a 3.1 overall gpa and 2.8 science gpa. I will be retaking my MCAT in January and I'm graduating in May and I'm not sure what to do. Should I do an SMP and reapply next year? Can I even retake the classes I did not do so well on after I graduate or what can I do?
AAHHHH I'm feeling kinda lost right now

ILuvPink too.

Don't do an SMP yet. Way too risky. Retake your crap classes @ a local state college. If you do well AND you still don't get in next cycle, do an SMP.

But first, concentrate on the MCAT.

 

[DrBubbles]

Ok, so I've applied to DO schools and so far have been getting rejection letters which is understandable since I got a 21 MCAT and have a 3.1 overall gpa and 2.8 science gpa. I will be retaking my MCAT in January and I'm graduating in May and I'm not sure what to do. Should I do an SMP and reapply next year? Can I even retake the classes I did not do so well on after I graduate or what can I do?
AAHHHH I'm feeling kinda lost right now

I agree with ILikeFood.
(I like food too.)

1. Do well on your MCAT.
2. Retake the classes you performed poorly in. (DO schools will accept the higher grade.
3. Then consider an SMP. The trick with the SMP is it'll make or break you: if you do well, it'll almost guarantee an acceptance, provided your numbers are acceptable. If you do poorly, you kind of destroy your chances of getting in.

As long as you can beat the MCAT, and retake your lower-grade classes, I am confident you'll get in. In the meantime, take a break after graduation--K through MD is a tough road--most people get burned out, and then there's residency afterwards! It's even looonger if you're in school between college and med school. So I encourage you to take some time off, and then regroup--I did that, and performed MUCH better in the classroom when I returned.

Best of luck!

 

[LuvPink]

thanks bubbles and food!
Another question, so if I shouldn't do a smp right now would you suggest a post bac program? I see post bac programs as improving my undergraduate gpa without me really having to actually go back to those classes I previously attended. Is that right?

 

[DrBubbles]

thanks bubbles and food!
Another question, so if I shouldn't do a smp right now would you suggest a post bac program? I see post bac programs as improving my undergraduate gpa without me really having to actually go back to those classes I previously attended. Is that right?

That's true. However, if you can improve your BCPM grades for DO schools, I encourage you to do so. Retaking the BCPM classes you did poorly in will improve both your BCPM AND your overall GPA. A post-bac will only improve your overall.

Also, it's expensive to do formal programs! You're in college, you're thinking a possible SMP, and then med school. It'll be super expensive already, and adding a formal post-bac program will only add to it! If you can work part-time, and retake BCPM classes part-time, you might enjoy life a bit more, and then you'll be able to build up a better wardrobe now for those clinical years, instead of having to put together makeshift outfits from college. Just something to think about too: some allopathic med schools won't accept courses taken at community colleges; I advise you to check with the osteopathic schools you're looking at to see what their policy is. You can always retake your classes at a university, but not pay full tuition if you're not full-time.

Anyhow, let me know if you have more questions!

 

[dresden62]

Hope you guys can help...sorry for the long post but I feel I need to put my story out there. Thanks to anyone who wants to help!
Background:
Grew up in South America, came to states not knowing a word of English. Worked for 5 years after HS graduation at Baylor College of Medicine were I did two years of volunteering, shadowing, attended conferences and lectures. Most of my EC are from this time period (98-2003). At the moment, I'm currently volunteering at a Children's hospitals on the weekends.
I'm a Florida resident currently working as a research technician conducting my own research in toxins and human metabolism. I'm not published yet but I think by next spring I should be. I graduated from the University of Florida in 2007, having gone to a community college the first two years obtaining a GPA of 3.65. Once I transfer to UF, I realized I could no longer work full time and attend school as a full-time student as I did in the time I was attending CC. So I lowered my hours and only worked 15hrs per week. However, life has a funny way of throwing one's plan out the window. My wife got pregnant (thank I God I helped) before my last undergrad year. Needless to say I went back to full-time student/ employee status. I graduated with my transfer class in time but my grades suffer from the lack of time needed to study. I have a bachelor's degree in Biochemistry and had a final GPA of 3.4 (science 3.04) with a few C+ along the way. I wish I could change the past but I can't. I'm happy with the decisions I made and have not regret a single thing up to this day.
I took the MCAT last June and I score a 22M (vr:3,ps: 9, bs: 9). Then I tried as much to prepare for the September MCAT and I got my results last week. I got a miserable 24P (vr: 6, ps: 8, bs: 8). Now I can honestly pinpoint my weaknesses-one being the lack of practice, practice, practice. I want to retake the MCAT this coming January and I'm only concentrating in practicing the material instead of fooling myself into thinking I know it. I've looked around the forum and there are people which have taken the MCAT three times and still got accepted to allopathic schools.
Question:
My question deals with raising my upper level GPA. I got a few A's in upper division clases (Molecular Bio, Parasitology, Virology and all upper division labs plus a year's worth of Research). I obtained A's in most of the core classes (Bio, Orgo, Physics and Inorganic) so retaking these courses will do me no good. The problem was working full-time while going to school full-time. I got a C+ in Biochem, Microbiology, Pathology, Eukaryotic Cell Structure and Analytical Chem.

I can honestly say I'm lost as to what to do next. I will take the MCAT and rock it, no questions about that. I have awesome EC and solid LORs from three professors and one from my PI.

Yet the biggest draw-back is my GPA. I don't even have an upper trend because my grades go from extreme to extreme (from A's to C+ nothing really in between). I guess, what I'm trying to ask is that if you guys can help me figure out if an SMP is the right choice or should I take upper level classes at University where I work at the moment (FIU)?.

I spoke to one of the ADCOMs at the FIUCOM and she gave me a list of gap year schools (SMPs). She also told me that in some cases, if the student is pursuing a MPH, most schools would not accept them until the MPH is completely finish, which can take from 1-2 years and is not as prestigious as a SMP. I have a choice of an SMP in my backyard, Barry University, but I don't think I can afford to dish out $35K for a year. My wife is in school at the moment and I'm the sole provider for our little family.
Do you guys recommend doing a SMP program, replacing my upper division course grades by retaking them or persuing a graduate non-degree certificate? UMDNJ has one the cheapest SMPs ($17,000 a year) or to follow a regular Masters programs at the school where I work at, which can take anywhere from 2-21/2 years. By the way, I'm 29 years old and I have a family to think about so which ever choice I end up making, I'm affecting two other lives.
I want to thank any one who may want to offer their two cents….
Ps= Thank you Vihsadas for your recent answer and comments, they are really appreciated.

 

[DrBubbles]

Hope you guys can help...sorry for the long post but I feel I need to put my story out there. Thanks to anyone who wants to help!
Background:
Grew up in South America, came to states not knowing a word of English. Worked for 5 years after HS graduation at Baylor College of Medicine were I did two years of volunteering, shadowing, attended conferences and lectures. Most of my EC are from this time period (98-2003). At the moment, I'm currently volunteering at a Children's hospitals on the weekends.
I’m a Florida resident currently working as a research technician conducting my own research in toxins and human metabolism. I’m not published yet but I think by next spring I should be. I graduated from the University of Florida in 2007, having gone to a community college the first two years obtaining a GPA of 3.65. Once I transfer to UF, I realized I could no longer work full time and attend school as a full-time student as I did in the time I was attending CC. So I lowered my hours and only worked 15hrs per week. However, life has a funny way of throwing one’s plan out the window. My wife got pregnant (thank I God I helped) before my last undergrad year. Needless to say I went back to full-time student/ employee status. I graduated with my transfer class in time but my grades suffer from the lack of time needed to study. I have a bachelor’s degree in Biochemistry and had a final GPA of 3.4 (science 3.04) with a few C+ along the way. I wish I could change the past but I can’t. I’m happy with the decisions I made and have not regret a single thing up to this day.
I took the MCAT last June and I score a 22M (vr:3,ps: 9, bs: 9). Then I tried as much to prepare for the September MCAT and I got my results last week. I got a miserable 24P (vr: 6, ps: 8, bs: 8). Now I can honestly pinpoint my weaknesses-one being the lack of practice, practice, practice. I want to retake the MCAT this coming January and I'm only concentrating in practicing the material instead of fooling myself into thinking I know it. I've looked around the forum and there are people which have taken the MCAT three times and still got accepted to allopathic schools.
Question:
My question deals with raising my upper level GPA. I got a few A’s in upper division clases (Molecular Bio, Parasitology, Virology and all upper division labs plus a year's worth of Research). I obtained A's in most of the core classes (Bio, Orgo, Physics and Inorganic) so retaking these courses will do me no good. The problem was working full-time while going to school full-time. I got a C+ in Biochem, Microbiology, Pathology, Eukaryotic Cell Structure and Analytical Chem.

I can honestly say I’m lost as to what to do next. I will take the MCAT and rock it, no questions about that. I have awesome EC and solid LORs from three professors and one from my PI.

Yet the biggest draw-back is my GPA. I don’t even have an upper trend because my grades go from extreme to extreme (from A’s to C+ nothing really in between). I guess, what I’m trying to ask is that if you guys can help me figure out if an SMP is the right choice or should I take upper level classes at University where I work at the moment (FIU)?.

I spoke to one of the ADCOMs at the FIUCOM and she gave me a list of gap year schools (SMPs). She also told me that in some cases, if the student is pursuing a MPH, most schools would not accept them until the MPH is completely finish, which can take from 1-2 years and is not as prestigious as a SMP. I have a choice of an SMP in my backyard, Barry University, but I don’t think I can afford to dish out $35K for a year. My wife is in school at the moment and I’m the sole provider for our little family.
Do you guys recommend doing a SMP program, replacing my upper division course grades by retaking them or persuing a graduate non-degree certificate? UMDNJ has one the cheapest SMPs ($17,000 a year) or to follow a regular Masters programs at the school where I work at, which can take anywhere from 2-21/2 years. By the way, I'm 29 years old and I have a family to think about so which ever choice I end up making, I'm affecting two other lives.
I want to thank any one who may want to offer their two cents….
Ps= Thank you Vihsadas for your recent answer and comments, they are really appreciated.

Wow, you sound like you have a lot going for you, and a little holding you back. Here are my thoughts:

1) Do what you need to to support your family, but ROCK THE MCAT! It sounds like you've already identified a core issue: that you believe you understand the material, but weren't practicing it. You can do well without taking a review course, but you need to work at it. Some people don't. I had to, and barely pulled a decently good score. I know you can do it, since you got As in the BCPM courses.

2) SMPs are expensive. With a 3.4, it may not be worth your family's income. The deal with the SMP is that if you do well, you have a better chance of getting into med school. But if you're working, or if any other unforeseen issues come up, and you do poorly, it kind of ruins your chances at med school. I would say just work 25-30 hours a week if possible, and take two undergrad classes at a time. I realize this probably won't get you all healthcare, and that may be an issue if you're not working 40. But anyhow, if you take two courses at a time, you can hopefully bring your gpa up above 3.5 or 3.6. And with your BCPM core grades, a good MCAT, all your experiences, and your honest explanation about your grades, I think you'll do fine. (Med schools do take into consideration a change in family circumstances, and you have a valid reason for why school became more challenging your last year.)

I hope this helps, and I wish you the best of luck!

 

[dresden62]

I hope this helps, and I wish you the best of luck![/quote]

Thank you so much Dr. Bubbles for taking your time to answer some of my questions. I know everyone makes excuses for not doing well in some classes. God knows that I could've have done better, I just didn’t pushed myself as hard as I need it to. Now that I know better, I know what I must do to bring up those C+ grades up. Also, I was curious to know how well would a certificate from the Mayo Clinic look in my resume. They have a program for minorities that I qualify for with a stipend of 21K a year. Granted, this is not much but at least I would be getting paid instead of me doing the paying. In the mean time, I'm going to find out if I can obtain free tuition as a full-staff member in the school where I'm currently working at. At least one or two classes. Thanks for all your help!

 

[dragonfly99]

Congratulations on your baby!

I agree with the comment above (about trying to retake and do well on the MCAT). Not sure what the cost is now, but Princeton Review has a very good test prep program for the MCAT. Also, Kaplan has one and I heard they used to have a scholarship program, so you might want to check in to that. Last I looked Princeton Review didn't give scholarships, though in my opinion it's a little better than Kaplan. You could just study on your own too, but might want to look in to the Kaplan scholarship. I also think that your 2nd MCAT score is significantly better than the first one...essay score is better and verbal reasoning score is better. You may continue to have trouble with the verbal reasoning part...I personally can't imagine taking that part if not a native English speaker...that would be truly hellish in my opinion! One strategy to address that in med school interviews is to say, "Oh yes, I didn't do that great on my verbal reasoning section, but look I got a better grade on the essay (if you can get a Q,R,S, or T for example)".

I don't think your GPA is as much of a barrier as the MCAT. If, as you say, you got good grades in basic chem/physics/biology, that may atone for some of the C+ grades, especially if you later take a couple more upper level classes and ace them. However, if your A grades are all from community college, they might not be looked upon the same as grades from a 4 year university.

Florida has several medical schools, so if you do better on the next MCAT, I would just go ahead and apply the next summer/fall to all your state schools that you can find, probably including whatever DO schools are in Florida (? are there some in Florida). When I read your post with all your interesting life experiences, and being a parent and having lots of experience working in a hospital and lab, etc. it made me think of a lot of the students that DO schools take. They tend to value the experience over just the MCAT and GPA, so you might want to consider them.

You might want to contact the National Medical Association (group for ethnic minority physicians and medical students) and/or look on their web site. They may have advice about getting in to medical school, and/or special programs for aspiring medical students. I'm interested to hear more about the program from Mayo...it sounds like it might be a winner. Mayo, from what I hear, is kind of a unique place and they take pride in that...also they like nontraditional students and/or community service minded students for their med school I think.

I am against paying 30k to do an "SMP". That sounds like a little bit of a scam to me...most of these SMP things do, actually. You have a family and you need to work, and besides you already have an undergraduate degree in science. These postbac and SMP things seem better suited to one who perhaps doesn't have the study habits, or didn't study science in undergrad but then wants to become a doctor.

I'm not sure I'd try to take 2 courses at a time while working...maybe one at a time would be better? I know it will take longer to raise up the GPA then, but I'm thinking you might be one of those students the adcoms might actually cut some slack in the GPA department, as long as you show improvement.

When you get around to applying to med school, you definitely need to mention your interesting background (i.e. immigrant, has worked at Baylor, have worked while going to college, recently became a parent, etc.) in your personal statement. It's definitely relevant. Having a couple C+ grades on your transcript isn't going to help, but having a reasonable explanation for it will. It's not just whining if you mention it, but don't dwell on it, in your application. Also it's good to mention it if you speak other languages...you'd be surprised how helpful it can be in some clinical situations, like working in the emergency room (i.e. to speak Spanish or Chinese, for example).

 

[Blade28]

You sound like you've gone through a lot - you're to be commended for tackling all those different responsibilities.

I agree that you need to work on your MCAT; in addition, while it's certainly difficult to maintain solid grades while working fulltime, unfortunately quite a few other applicants do this and adcoms tend to frown upon people who let their grades slip due to other commitments - after all there are also lots of applicants who manage to maintain solid grades while working, raising a family, etc.

I don't know what a Mayo "certificate" is - can you elaborate?