Attrition rate at DO schools?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
This is a silly topic. If you are not cut out for med school, then the school has every right to kick you out. The school will give you multiple opportunities to re-mediate, etc, etc, but at the end of the day they have a legacy and image to maintain. This is true at all schools, DO, MD, carribean, undergraduate, etc, etc, etc. Don't be so nieve. ALL schools (and yes I mean ALL) are a for-profit business, some just masquerade under the guise of "public" & "non-profit".

If a kid isn't cutting it, then it's the student's own fault. Deal with it.

/thread.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Does anyone at COMP know if this projection of 4 years includes the students that do the 1-year OMM fellowship?

I have no idea but that'd make more sense to me. I remember seeing this stat before matriculating, freaking out, and posting an SDN thread inquiring more. I can only think of ~4 people in my class who had to repeat/drop out, though I bet there's more, and maybe half a dozen to a dozen who were fine academically but decided on doing other things. I don't know everyone but don't see how we could have 15%/34 people on the 5 year plan unless you count the fellows.
 
I am curious as to the typical 4 year graduation rate. I looks as if at some schools, it is < 80%.

For example, Touro-NY matriculated 135 students into its first class on 2007. In 2011, only 107 (79%) graduated.
For LMU-DCOM, 122/160 of the first class appears to have graduated in 4 years (76%)
RVU: 126/159 (79%)

source: http://www.aacom.org/data/studentenrollment/Documents/2008-2013_AppEnrollGrad.pdf

I would guess that is not atypical. If you looked at enrollment vs residency match in 4 years, I would bet the % might be in the 60s at a lot of schools.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Taking more than 4 years to graduate because you took a research year or earned an additional degree (PhD, MPH, MBA, etc) is legitimate and an accomplishment that is applauded whereas taking more than 4 years because you were held back is a big red flag (though one that is very surmountable if you are coming from a US MD school). Point is that at DO schools the reason for taking >4 yrs to graduate is almost always a failure which is not the case at US MD schools so making the comparison of pure percentages is unfair and disingenuous. Typically at US MD schools <5% take more than 4 years to graduate for involuntary reasons. In my class it was 3% but if you count those who voluntarily took time off to complete a laudable endeavor that number would jump to ~15%

Thank god we avoided unfairly and dismissively interpreting stats in a self-aggrandizing way. That was a close one!
 
Thank god we avoided unfairly and dismissively interpreting stats in a self-aggrandizing way. That was a close one!

Just from my limited experience of attending a DO school and acgme residency, there may be some truth to this.
 
Just from my limited experience of attending a DO school and acgme residency, there may be some truth to this.

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

At the bottom of page 14 (the pdf page, not the real page), it shows that md students had a graduation rate of 86% when not including students who took joint programs, special research/non-research studies, or were deceased. MD only students with no research year and no extra degrees.



https://www.aamc.org/download/37922...onratesandattritionfactorsforusmedschools.pdf

This study found a four year graduation rate of 81% for the 2009-2013 class when including MD only students who DID take time off to do research (early under results)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

At the bottom of page 14 (the pdf page, not the real page), it shows that md students had a graduation rate of 86% when not including students who took joint programs, special research/non-research studies, or were deceased. MD only students with no research year and no extra degrees.



https://www.aamc.org/download/37922...onratesandattritionfactorsforusmedschools.pdf

This study found a four year graduation rate of 81% for the 2009-2013 class when including MD only students who DID take time off to do research (early under results)

What!? I was certain that 99.99% of MDs who didn't graduate in 4yrs did so because of research, and the 1-2 others were just people that snuck in at orientation and who should have gone to DO school. :rolleyes:

You might be able to say that at top 20 MD schools most people who take longer are probably doing research, but despite what it sometimes seems like on SDN most MD schools (~120) aren't in the top 20 MD.
 
Last edited:
Failure to pass COMLEX. This cohort tends to be our weakest students or people who get nailed by a bad life event.
sorry for bringing up
What!? I was certain that 99.99% of MDs who didn't graduate in 4yrs did so because of research, and the 1-2 others were just people that snuck in at orientation and who should have gone to DO school. :rolleyes:

You might be able to say that at top 20 MD schools most people who take longer are probably doing research, but despite what it sometimes seems like on SDN most MD schools (~120) aren't in the top 20 MD.
I personally know people that are at top 50 schools that are "taking a year off to do research" because are having trouble passing USMLE

I do realize your post is in sarcasm...
 
...so..i have a horror story for ya...i was in the first class at TouroCOM-NY....one of the highest MCATs in the class. I started my forth year in the ICU...as a patient...took LOA but returned after six months....my mother was then dx c lung ca (by me) and died in my arms. So i passed all written and physician graded portion of the comlex 2 PE...failed 4 times 'humanistic domain' of PE (actor scored)....dismissed after that at six year rule....330k down the drain....sad thing is...huge waist...having great people skills, the humanistic domain is an invalid test...if your not familiar with the rubric..you should be if you are going to or plan to attend a DO program...being in NYC..even our 1st class had remarkable students (including me)...sad that literally hours from being a doctor now i'm on food stamps and other horrific things...still hanging on by a prayer...i hope to file a suit soon to contest the humanistic domain (oh the irony). I'll attach the latest version of my pro se litigation...a seasoned medical professional, but hung out to dry........a few people have messaged me already...responses vary from don't quit..this is important to the profession, to ur an idiot....well ..i'll clarify a few things....I have passed advanced science test eg physical chemistry using multi-variable calculus answering problems in nuclear chemistry, degree in chemistry, bio-med science, minors in physics, biology...first author publications x3 in chemistry (as undergrad)...several people are walking around today as result of my skills in EMS.....now i'm told i can't pass a test whereas if you shower and brush ur teeth...2 right already...please this is a issue that needs fixin' for the good of the profession...the term i use is "unthinking dogmatism'. In plain terms...cutting you nose off to spite ur face' , 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'.

..so having worked with some of the best doctors in the world...never have I heard one thank a pt for being sick or injured....the rubric's logic is that one who doesn't thank a pt is putting them at risk and need to be protected from those who might for professional reasons use a different way to confer gratitude....one might say, 'its my pleasure to help with your health care needs'. ...FAIL...let me say that again..FAIL...or ...one may be an expert in resuscitation, cancer therapy, general expertise....this poorly designed and implemented disaster of a 'test' ,exam' has and will in the future do much to detract from a noble profession..by the unintended consequences of its illogical rationale...or is it irrational logic...hummm..anyway...

..and ...not just me but psychometric experts (APA et al) have said this is a BAD idea for diverse reasons....these publications are listed and referenced in the attached....so for now i point out that either intentionally or incompetence..this test ignores nuanced or more advanced techniques a more skilled interviewer might use...assuming the candidate is a green behind the ear novice. It portends to measure empathy and compassion of a actor who playing the part in a skit, neither has the reported condition nor is the least bit worried about having it and the candidate knows this making it an acting exercise, not a measure of genuine pt concern...invalidating the test by a well described rationale too many experts articulate, to be ignored...
 

Attachments

  • 427-4a.doc
    41.5 KB · Views: 108
Last edited:
I mean, which schools have more lenient policies. Like I've heard one DO school strictly dismisses you if you fail 2 systems 1st year while another school with that same policy.. rarely enforces it. Then you'd have some schools (I'm guessing) that have more lenient policies.

It's not that I'm assuming there's any chance I'd fail. But no one knows what life throws at you and I think school policies are something to factor in.
I would hope the school would kick you out if you fail two systems. Pretty sure every school would. Do you mean fail a test or fail and entire block of material? No school is gonna let the student keep failing, period. Some have remediation policies but no school is gonna let you fail multiple class obviously, at least not without some sort of policy to get you up to speed
 
Last edited:
Cookie,

I'm sorry to hear about your story. It's truly a nightmare, and something I wish no one would even have to imagine.

With that said, given the high pass rate of the Step 2 PE, what do you think went wrong for you to fail ... 4 separate times. I have to assume you had different standardized patients in these different visits. A huge red flag is jumping out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
...so..i have a horror story for ya...i was in the first class at TouroCOM-NY....one of the highest MCATs in the class. I started my forth year in the ICU...as a patient...took LOA but returned after six months....my mother was then dx c lung ca (by me) and died in my arms. So i passed all written and physician graded portion of the comlex 2 PE...failed 4 times 'humanistic domain' of PE (actor scored)....dismissed after that at six year rule....330k down the drain....sad thing is...huge waist...having great people skills, the humanistic domain is an invalid test...if your not familiar with the rubric..you should be if you are going to or plan to attend a DO program...being in NYC..even our 1st class had remarkable students (including me)...sad that literally hours from being a doctor now i'm on food stamps and other horrific things...still hanging on by a prayer...i hope to file a suit soon to contest the humanistic domain (oh the irony). I'll attach the latest version of my pro se litigation...a seasoned medical professional, but hung out to dry........a few people have messaged me already...responses vary from don't quit..this is important to the profession, to ur an idiot....well ..i'll clarify a few things....I have passed advanced science test eg physical chemistry using multi-variable calculus answering problems in nuclear chemistry, degree in chemistry, bio-med science, minors in physics, biology...first author publications x3 in chemistry (as undergrad)...several people are walking around today as result of my skills in EMS.....now i'm told i can't pass a test whereas if you shower and brush ur teeth...2 right already...please this is a issue that needs fixin' for the good of the profession...the term i use is "unthinking dogmatism'. In plain terms...cutting you nose off to spite ur face' , 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'.

..so having worked with some of the best doctors in the world...never have I heard one thank a pt for being sick or injured....the rubric's logic is that one who doesn't thank a pt is putting them at risk and need to be protected from those who might for professional reasons use a different way to confer gratitude....one might say, 'its my pleasure to help with your health care needs'. ...FAIL...let me say that again..FAIL...or ...one may be an expert in resuscitation, cancer therapy, general expertise....this poorly designed and implemented disaster of a 'test' ,exam' has and will in the future do much to detract from a noble profession..by the unintended consequences of its illogical rationale...
how were your OSCE's, at least? also did your school require you to pass any kind of mock PE before the actual?

despite the high pass rate, I do feel NBOME should at least offer more feedback for those who fail the PE.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
how were your OSCE's, at least? also did your school require you to pass any kind of mock PE before the actual?

despite the high pass rate, I do feel NBOME should at least offer more feedback for those who fail the PE.
ok..for sterters...i deny i failed...rather i excelled ...which nuanced technique is ignored.

and yes i was passed by my school in pretty much the same format...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
ok..for sterters...i deny i failed...rather i excelled ...

This is a little troubling. You failed 4 times. Something very real and consistent likely occurred in each of your test days. Do they provide any sort of feedback with the scoring?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Cookie,

I'm sorry to hear about your story. It's truly a nightmare, and something I wish no one would even have to imagine.

With that said, given the high pass rate of the Step 2 PE, what do you think went wrong for you to fail ... 4 separate times. I have to assume you had different standardized patients in these different visits. A huge red flag is jumping out.
good question...i have updated my post which at least partially answers your question but to summarize...nuanced skills used by seasoned clinicians are not given credit. eg 'its my pleasure to serve your health care needs' ...no credit...'thank you' , i've never heard it used , full credit' and its not typically used...that is to say...it is a skit, acting exercise, there is nothing wrong with my skills...on the contrary...advanced esp in my area were i would likely practice ultimately... also...actors may not identify with a candidate who might be older for example...they have a certain quota for scoring...if they score most or all they see' high' it is pointed out to them where they are too easy..so someone different is more likely to receive scrutiny. actors are asked to make valued judgements when they have no particular expertise in educational psychometric testing, sociology, psychology...these are points made in the articles listed in the resources of the attached doc.

i saw some actors several times...each time the phenomena of conformity to conscious or not, perceived norms comes more into play/...ie it becomes more difficult to pass each time a particular actor is seen...as they conscious of their being compared to other scores, and needing to conform to perceived score by other actors.

Poor design....some of the scenarios are not realistic, so it becomes difficult to say if the purpose of this scenario is to be tested by a sullen bitter pt...or what...i may have been spot on in previous encounter but trying to do something different b/c who knows..what they might be looking for...here is another essay mas o menos pointing out the flaws...again...although i recognized these flaws, not much searching was required to find psychometric people screaming the unintended consequences that invariably would be consequent. The rubric is contradictory, every pt knows they are entitled to a second opinion, if i suggest that they go to another doc to receive one...how does that say i' m confident....on and on and on......

the high pass rate is exactly what should be noted as your 'red flag" that something is amiss here....malitious...? incompetent...? or just plain NOT valid? which is sufficient for my suit to prevail.

oh yeah...there is no system of review...one can't say,'wait a minute..i did ask that question or it came about with an open-ended question and the actor failed to record it...special note is NBOME own research anticipated this actor issue and performed their own study to validate actor evaluations saying they correlate with the physician score...not in my case...red flag?
 

Attachments

  • seeking rep 427,,,,,.docx
    20.6 KB · Views: 94
Last edited:
the high pass rate is exactly what should be noted as your 'red flag" that something is amiss here....malitious...? incompetent...? or just plain NOT valid? which is sufficient for my suit to prevail.

I know it's easier said than done, but you should try and put this in your past and move on. I am not optimistic about your chances of prevailing in court. (Courts have consistently ruled that a medical school dean's decision is final, unless you can prove that the school violated an anti-discrimination statute or acted in an "arbitrary and capricious" manner.)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I know it's easier said than done, but you should try and put this in your past and move on. I am not optimistic about your chances of prevailing in court. (Courts have consistently ruled that a medical school dean's decision is final, unless you can prove that the school violated an anti-discrimination statute or acted in an "arbitrary and capricious" manner.)

I don't know if that's what they're after. I'd imagine there'd be no way to get reinstated as a student mainly because of the lapse in time and the length of time it would take in general. If anything, I think the goal is to sue for lost tuition or salary if the test is found to be "suspect".

Personally, I'm not a big fan of things like the "Humanistic Domain" of the PE. Its a little too subjective to be dealing with a exam that people must pass to finish medical school. In any case, there are things in med school where you just have to act the way others want you to act, check the boxes they want you to check, and just get out of there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
ok..for sterters...i deny i failed...rather i excelled ...which nuanced technique is ignored.

and yes i was passed by my school in pretty much the same format...

You're right. It definitely was the fault of the PE format and the patients who were unable to recognize your nuanced skills on 4 different occasions.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
good question...i have updated my post which at least partially answers your question but to summarize...nuanced skills used by seasoned clinicians are not given credit. eg 'its my pleasure to serve your health care needs' ...no credit...'thank you' , i've never heard it used , full credit' and its not typically used...that is to say...it is a skit, acting exercise, there is nothing wrong with my skills...on the contrary...advanced esp in my area were i would likely practice ultimately... also...actors may not identify with a candidate who might be older for example...they have a certain quota for scoring...if they score most or all they see' high' it is pointed out to them where they are too easy..so someone different is more likely to receive scrutiny. actors are asked to make valued judgements when they have no particular expertise in educational psychometric testing, sociology, psychology...these are points made in the articles listed in the resources of the attached doc.

i saw some actors several times...each time the phenomena of conformity to conscious or not, perceived norms comes more into play/...ie it becomes more difficult to pass each time a particular actor is seen...as they conscious of their being compared to other scores, and needing to conform to perceived score by other actors.

Poor design....some of the scenarios are not realistic, so it becomes difficult to say if the purpose of this scenario is to be tested by a sullen bitter pt...or what...i may have been spot on in previous encounter but trying to do something different b/c who knows..what they might be looking for...here is another essay mas o menos pointing out the flaws...again...although i recognized these flaws, not much searching was required to find psychometric people screaming the unintended consequences that invariably would be consequent. The rubric is contradictory, every pt knows they are entitled to a second opinion, if i suggest that they go to another doc to receive one...how does that say i' m confident....on and on and on......

the high pass rate is exactly what should be noted as your 'red flag" that something is amiss here....malitious...? incompetent...? or just plain NOT valid? which is sufficient for my suit to prevail.

oh yeah...there is no system of review...one can't say,'wait a minute..i did ask that question or it came about with an open-ended question and the actor failed to record it...special note is NBOME own research anticipated this actor issue and performed their own study to validate actor evaluations saying they correlate with the physician score...not in my case...red flag?


You must contact a legal referral service in NYC and ask for somebody willing to review your case. This is the reverse of Caribbean schools kicking people out at the earliest opportunity. This is about Touro that keeps you on year after year to collect tuition. A good lawyer should be able to build a case of consumer fraud/deception for you and sue for damages. At a minimum you should ask for all the tuition that was paid to Touro over the six years you were in NYC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You must contact a legal referral service in NYC and ask for somebody willing to review your case. This is the reverse of Caribbean schools kicking people out at the earliest opportunity. This is about Touro that keeps you on year after year to collect tuition. A good lawyer should be able to build a case of consumer fraud/deception for you and sue for damages. At a minimum you should ask for all the tuition that was paid to Touro over the six years you were in NYC.
How exactly is this the school's fault? He failed a standardized test 4 times and the school requires you pass it to graduate. Pretty clear cut.

As for the case…. You're a 4th year med student not a "seasoned clinician". I can't comment on complex PE specifically cause I've never taken it but if step 2 CS is any indication then you must have messed up real bad. Did you actually try to improve or just insist the whole time that you were misunderstood?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I'm not sure what benefit you think arguing your case on SDN is going to do, or posting your letter. Seek legal counsel.
i'm not sure either...however...i spent half, most of my life on this mission...a cadre of actors using an invalidy test saying i'm not empathetic, compassionate....no no no no......i ain't going away with that....I was accepted into med school at 47.....they told me i was crazy then when I said I was applying to med skrewl...watch and learn my friend...
 
How exactly is this the school's fault? He failed a standardized test 4 times and the school requires you pass it to graduate. Pretty clear cut.

As for the case…. You're a 4th year med student not a "seasoned clinician". I can't comment on complex PE specifically cause I've never taken it but if step 2 CS is any indication then you must have messed up real bad. Did you actually try to improve or just insist the whole time that you were misunderstood?

au contraire mon amie....you talking to a seasoned professional....you never took CS...bless ur heart..i don't mean this harshly...ur ignorant...maybe u should just listen to this discussion... :)
 
At risk of sounding insensitive...your posts and much more so your letter... You sound like you need help. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to seriously edit the content of that letter (and not just for the obvious spelling mistakes)


to be sure..i'm fighting mad....you would be too if you were in my shoes...well that's another reason to post it...i'll listen to all constructive criticism...and it is a rough draft....also several have seen the argument as valid and an important fight for the sake of the integrity of our esteem profession... cheers never claimed to be a good spreller...i do however have 132 iq

perhaps the subject matter is just over your head...
 
Last edited:
I know it's easier said than done, but you should try and put this in your past and move on. I am not optimistic about your chances of prevailing in court. (Courts have consistently ruled that a medical school dean's decision is final, unless you can prove that the school violated an anti-discrimination statute or acted in an "arbitrary and capricious" manner.)


...move on...u mean give up...sorry..its not in me...which btw...is an admirable quality esp if i'm you doc and ur arse is real sick...say having a cv issue..or maybe broken to pieces and bleeding all over the floor :) also there is the issue of 330k and btw...i'm underdog..damnit.....
 
Last edited:
How do ppl like this get into medical school...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
OMG and I thought failing boards was the worst thing that happens
 
How do ppl like this get into medical school...

...30mcat...2 mack daddy science degrees...first author x3 chemistry publications....beaucoup medical experience.....shmart....dat how
oh yeah..wild animals climb in my lap and eat out of my hand...and when i drink beer...u guessed it...dos equis...
 
Last edited:
troll.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Also, did you really just post your name, address, phone number, and 2 email addresses on a public website?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
au contraire mon amie....you talking to a seasoned professional....you never took CS...bless ur heart..i don't mean this harshly...ur ignorant...maybe u should just listen to this discussion... :)

I said I didn't take PE. Which makes sense since I'm not a DO.

Anyway you are either a troll or a sociopath. Either way, from your posts it's clear you really shouldn't be a physician. I guess that test that > 90% of med students pass is worthwhile after all.

Go away
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I don't know if that's what they're after. I'd imagine there'd be no way to get reinstated as a student mainly because of the lapse in time and the length of time it would take in general. If anything, I think the goal is to sue for lost tuition or salary if the test is found to be "suspect".

Personally, I'm not a big fan of things like the "Humanistic Domain" of the PE. Its a little too subjective to be dealing with a exam that people must pass to finish medical school. In any case, there are things in med school where you just have to act the way others want you to act, check the boxes they want you to check, and just get out of there.

thats what i'm saying halowwmann...mama always said I sucked at jumping through hoops...she was right...kinda proud about that...

"We need more doctors. On a global scale, the shortage is staggering: The World Health Organization says we need 15 percent more doctors. In the United States, the American Association of Medical Colleges estimates the current deficit at almost 60,000 and forecasts a worrisome 130,600-doctor shortfall by 2025. There’s one simple solution: We have to consider ways to manufacture doctors faster and cheaper."

Read more at: http://forum.facmedicine.com/threads/should-it-really-take-14-years-to-become-a-doctor.20502/

look...if your life is on the line...u don't need a hoop jumper...u need a doctor...like me... ;)

maybe tomorrow i'll tell yall the story about why i ain't my executive dean pet student....
 
Last edited:
You must contact a legal referral service in NYC and ask for somebody willing to review your case. This is the reverse of Caribbean schools kicking people out at the earliest opportunity. This is about Touro that keeps you on year after year to collect tuition. A good lawyer should be able to build a case of consumer fraud/deception for you and sue for damages. At a minimum you should ask for all the tuition that was paid to Touro over the six years you were in NYC.

Good luck finding a money-back guarantee in the school's catalog.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Also, did you really just post your name, address, phone number, and 2 email addresses on a public website?


yeah and don't u dare start callin me up...friend...want my FB?
 
Under dog why did you wait 4 years to take care of this issue?

Also why didn't you just go to the carribean or something over that 4 year span??
In fact why don't you just go to the carribean now?

Or reapply to US DO/MD schools?


ideally, if you've been through med school once, it should be a cake walk the second time... become a neurosurgeon in alaska and pay those loans off in like 3 years after residency

No. Just No. It is time to move on. It will be better for your mental and physical health. Try to put this all behind you and live your life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Under dog why did you wait 4 years to take care of this issue?

Also why didn't you just go to the carribean or something over that 4 year span??
In fact why don't you just go to the carribean now?

Or reapply to US DO/MD schools?


ideally, if you've been through med school once, it should be a cake walk the second time... become a neurosurgeon in alaska and pay those loans off in like 3 years after residency
Is this real....?
 
it's safe to assume that many people didn't like his style of doctoring every single time they saw him...
 
it's safe to assume that many people didn't like his style of doctoring every single time they saw him...
They just didn't understand his nuanced style.

Oh, and my personal style inverts some of the questions from the standard guideline (e.g. I give examples and then ask the patient to describe the pain, since over half of the patients just shrug when asked to "describe the pain"). Somehow I didn't have any problems with the PE.
 
look...if your life is on the line...u don't need a hoop jumper...u need a doctor...like me... ;)

But you're not a doctor. And you never will be because you lacked the insight to follow simple instructions.

You're also a decent troll.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The people and posts in this forum never cease to surprise me. What did I just read?
 
thats what i'm saying halowwmann...mama always said I sucked at jumping through hoops...she was right...kinda proud about that...

While I certainly sympathize, my point was more that sometimes you just have to jump through the hoops if you want something.

As a physician, you're not in full control over your situation all the time (or even most of it). There are going to be times where you have to follow other people's rules or your career will be short.

I wish you the best of luck with your future, but I strongly recommend removing your private information from this site. It's in your best interest to be as anonymous as possible, especially if you plan to move forward with your plans.

It's not ideal, but it is possible. There's another student in this forum who wants to go to med school and is in 4th year of pharm school...
relatively similar debt levels... many people are pushing pharm student to med school

idk why this guy didn't just try to go to med school somewhere else andstart from scratch...
he could've been matching in residency by now... but for some reason he waited 4 years to address this issue.

if i was him, i would have have gone to med school all over again, if not in the usa, i would've gone to st george's

He was 53 when he was dismissed. Late 50s now. Seems like the best thing to do is to move on, at least that's what I would do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I was not aware he was 53, also I did not realize he basically chose not to comply I thought he got axed for no real reason

Guilty of not reading carefukly

These other folks know more about the subject than I do. Thus ignore my advice please
 
Based on his FB page I'm pretty sure cookie is legit...not sure what to think about that...
 
I can say with certainty that the only people we lost from my class at LECOM-B...deserved to get lost. Three had significant personality issues to go along with underachieving. If they were harder working, and more sane...the school would have worked with them. One got held back because she got caught having her friends swip her card in and missing class. Nobody that was hard working and sane got held back or failed. That was with over 160 students.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I was not aware he was 53, also I did not realize he basically chose not to comply I thought he got axed for no real reason

Guilty of not reading carefukly

These other folks know more about the subject than I do. Thus ignore my advice please

I admit, this made me LOL.

No offense Jordan, but you gotta admit, the irony is delicious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top