Ask an Army Dentist

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where would be the best place to do the 2 year aegd. ft hood or ft bragg? if you can please give me your reasons also, thx
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Blando said:
where would be the best place to do the 2 year aegd. ft hood or ft bragg? if you can please give me your reasons also, thx
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If you are serious about the 2 year, do it in Hawaii:thumbup:. Hood is a hole:thumbdown:. Never been to Bragg, but at least it's close to civilization. Make sure the 2 year is really what you want to do. The only real reason to do it would be if you are going to make the Army a career (50k retention bonus, but paid only after you initial obligation is complete which would be after you have been on active duty 6 years). No other real advantages over the one year in private practice. Good Luck
 
thx for the response hawkeye, the reason i ask is i know its a little early in the game, but i really do think i want to make the army a career. i know there's no way in heck i could get hawaii right out of school, that's why i was wondering about the difference between the other two :) im originally from a desolute area so it sounds like hood would be sorta nice after living in a big cold city during d-school :) maybe waiting a year or two then applying to hawaii might work?
 
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Hello Army HPSPers. So I am getting real close to (hopefully) being offered the Army HPSP and I just want to get some perspectives from some of yous guys before I sign my life away....

1.) Does the AEGD just make you super deployable?
2.) Do you have a choice of being assigned to a unit (15 month deployments) as opposed to being just susceptible to 6 month tours? Or are you just assigned and you do what your told?
3.) My recruiter implies that coming out of Dschool board certified that you'll be making all said and done close to 60Gs a year. Is there any truth in this?
4.) Who of you have been to Iraq/deployed? What was your experience like?
5.) BQuad, I haven't seen you post in a while.....what are you up to?
6.) All-in-all are you guys pumped on what your doing? Does being in the Army add or take away from what you've worked so hard to accomplish?


Okay....This is a lot. Any information you guys could give me would be so much appreciated. This is a HUGE decision.
 
BQuad said:
Similar to Deep Impact's Navy thread.

If you have a question about Army Dentistry, drop a line and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability from my experience.

My tours so far:

Loma Linda - 4yr HPSP
Ft. Lewis- 1yr AEGD
Camp Casey, Korea- 1yr
Ft. Richardson, AK - 1yr
Camp Bucca, Iraq - Been here 8 months
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I thought he was doing these posts while deployed? So between 8/20/07 and now he's been deployed, come home and then redeployed? Isn't that gonna wind up being 30 months of deployment? That is some serious service BQuad! Is that common these days?
 
Blando said:
thx for the response hawkeye, the reason i ask is i know its a little early in the game, but i really do think i want to make the army a career. i know there's no way in heck i could get hawaii right out of school, that's why i was wondering about the difference between the other two :) im originally from a desolute area so it sounds like hood would be sorta nice after living in a big cold city during d-school :) maybe waiting a year or two then applying to hawaii might work?
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What you will do if you are serious about the 2 year, is apply for a 2 year residency your senior year of dental school. You will just rank your preferences. You can put Hawaii first, Hood second and so forth or how ever you'd like. Your ranking of schools will have nothing to do with if you get a 2 year or not. If that's really what you want to do, then just put in the application. I don't think that the Army is filling all the 2 year slots, so don't worry about that.
 
gnarkill said:
Hello Army HPSPers. So I am getting real close to (hopefully) being offered the Army HPSP and I just want to get some perspectives from some of yous guys before I sign my life away....

1.) Does the AEGD just make you super deployable?
2.) Do you have a choice of being assigned to a unit (15 month deployments) as opposed to being just susceptible to 6 month tours? Or are you just assigned and you do what your told?
3.) My recruiter implies that coming out of Dschool board certified that you'll be making all said and done close to 60Gs a year. Is there any truth in this?
4.) Who of you have been to Iraq/deployed? What was your experience like?
5.) BQuad, I haven't seen you post in a while.....what are you up to?
6.) All-in-all are you guys pumped on what your doing? Does being in the Army add or take away from what you've worked so hard to accomplish?


Okay....This is a lot. Any information you guys could give me would be so much appreciated. This is a HUGE decision.
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1. Yes....after the one year you are ripe pickings for the brigade slots. (see my other thread). Not saying that all agd'ers go to brigade slots, but the brigade slots are filled first, and filled with people who did the agd. That being said I think it would be unwise not to do the AGD. It's a great experience, and would make the rest of your military time better.

2. Again see my (brigade dentist thread). If you are assigned to a brigade, you go as long as they do, be if 12-15 or more months. That being said things could change with a new president. As they say, the truth changes.

3. depends on where you live how much your BAH is, but around 55K is probably close. The first 2 years is pretty low, but it gets better, this summer I'll hit my 3 year point and get about 600 a month extra.

4.I'll find out in August.

5.

6. Greatfull for the experience, can't wait to get out. It's been good, but I've had enough. When I'm done and looking back on it I will be extremely greatfull. I am a better dentist and person for having done it. I will be extremely thankfull I am not paying back 200K over 20 years. But I don't know if I could do it again. Good Luck.
 
Blando said:
where would be the best place to do the 2 year aegd. ft hood or ft bragg? if you can please give me your reasons also, thx
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I am at Ft Bragg and know a bit about the 2 year. PM me for info.
 
Ladies,

After consideration, I think it would be wise not to waste my 8 years of prior service. A few questions:
1) I read about the acceptance into ortho being delayed until experience has been built up, but somehow there is a prior service loophole? What gives? I'm really interested in ortho, and I'm wondering how exactly the military would help me do this. Or what the process would be. Does my prior service get me past the "unspoken rule" that was mentioned, given that I do well in D-school? If so, (again, given that I do well enough) how does HSPS work with this? There's something that I'm just not understanding, apparently.
2) Is time in ortho residency count toward retirement? I'm still pre-dent, so I'm supposing that this is what ortho "school" is being called. If you finish the HSPS payback, without AEGD, and go on to residency, could you be kept in either AD or reserve status? I might as well get a retirement check for my time in.
3) I'm used to the old pay scales, with O-E pay. Apparently this has been changed, in favor of a #3 modifier [O-3(3) for example]. Used to be a separate scale for prior enlisted. So, where the heck does that put me? I'll have 12 years in, with HSPS.
4) Is there some sort of military ortho program, seperate from civilian training?

Break this down for me, or help refer me to where I can find this out. I'd appreciate it.
One more:
5) I really, really hate calling the VA. Does anyone know if I would be able to throw in for the GI Bill, given that I'm already using it for my undergrad? It's worth a shot....


This is so laughable:
ELIGIBLE SPECIALTY: LENGTH OF SVC AGREEMENT:
LEVEL 1: 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR
ORAL-MAXILLOFACIAL SURG (63N) $25,000 $38,000 $50,000
COMPREHENSIVE DENTISTRY (63B) $25,000 $38,000 $50,000
LEVEL 2: 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR
ENDODNTICS (63E) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
PROSTHODONTICS (63F) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
DEN PUBLIC HLTH (63H) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
ORAL-MAXILLOFACIAL PATH (63P) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
ORTHODONTICS (63M) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
PEDIATRIC DENTISTRY (63K) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
PERIODONTICS (63D) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
DENT RESEARCH PHD LEVEL $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
LEVEL 3: Currently not used by ASD(HA)
($18,000 $27,000 $35,000)
LEVEL 4: 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR
ARMY ADVANCED CLIN PRACTICE:
(Exod, Endo, GenDen, Perio, Pros) $13,000 $19,000 $25,000
Eligibility: 8-years creditable service from HPPED -OR- completion of all training obligations (ADOs)
user_offline.gif

When I was in Iraq the second time, an SF weapons SGT got a $125K re-up bonus tax-free. I can't remember the commitment time, exactly, but come on! Only $50,000 for 4 years? I got $20K for 4 years as enlisted! Eight years of school gets you a measly $50K re-up?
 
Another thing:
I was putting in my packet for WO, rotary wing, when I decided to leave for college instead. Pilots get MOS specialty pay (can't remember what it's called, it's been a while), along with danger pay on a continuous basis (unlike basic Joe), and other such little perks. I know they're not the only ones, either. So, what's in it for dentists?



Don't tell me "a sincere pat on the back" and a pair of loupes.
 
Wladziu said:
Ladies,

So, where the heck does that put me? I'll have 12 years in, with HSPS.
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If your implying that your HPSP time will count towards your retirement or pay you are mistaken.
 
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Wladziu said:
Ladies,

This is so laughable:
ELIGIBLE SPECIALTY: LENGTH OF SVC AGREEMENT:
LEVEL 1: 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR
ORAL-MAXILLOFACIAL SURG (63N) $25,000 $38,000 $50,000
COMPREHENSIVE DENTISTRY (63B) $25,000 $38,000 $50,000
LEVEL 2: 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR
ENDODNTICS (63E) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
PROSTHODONTICS (63F) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
DEN PUBLIC HLTH (63H) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
ORAL-MAXILLOFACIAL PATH (63P) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
ORTHODONTICS (63M) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
PEDIATRIC DENTISTRY (63K) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
PERIODONTICS (63D) $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
DENT RESEARCH PHD LEVEL $20,000 $30,000 $40,000
LEVEL 3: Currently not used by ASD(HA)
($18,000 $27,000 $35,000)
LEVEL 4: 2 YEAR 3 YEAR 4 YEAR
ARMY ADVANCED CLIN PRACTICE:
(Exod, Endo, GenDen, Perio, Pros) $13,000 $19,000 $25,000
Eligibility: 8-years creditable service from HPPED -OR- completion of all training obligations (ADOs)
user_offline.gif

When I was in Iraq the second time, an SF weapons SGT got a $125K re-up bonus tax-free. I can't remember the commitment time, exactly, but come on! Only $50,000 for 4 years? I got $20K for 4 years as enlisted! Eight years of school gets you a measly $50K re-up?
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The bonuses are PER YEAR, so if you sign a four year multi-year retention bonus for a tier 1 specialty, it is 50k per year for each of the 4 years of your commitment.
 
i met an army recruiter today at some dental convention at my school. I liked the sound of it. My question is

can you rank/choose your deployment location? That would be cool, if I get to go to Korea since I am one.
 
eric275 said:
The bonuses are PER YEAR, so if you sign a four year multi-year retention bonus for a tier 1 specialty, it is 50k per year for each of the 4 years of your commitment.
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Oh, well then! That sounds more like it! The article is written very similar to the re-up charts that I've seen in the past: 1 year is worth X amount, 2 years are worth Y, etc.


if I get to go to Korea since I am one.
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No offense, but I was always told this was dangerous. I've heard bad stories.
 
as far as the bonuses you are mentioning here, pay special attention to the fact that they do not come into effect until after your initial obligation is complete.

For Example: if you chose Ortho as you mentioned. If, and that's a big IF you get straight into ortho you would have a 3 year residency. The residency would count as years in service toward retirement/pay etc. Then you would have a 3-4 year payback for the HPSP/Residency...they would be served simulaneously. (recap you have now been a dentist for 7 years...3 years residency+payback)...Then and only then do you get the multiyear retention bonus you mentioned on the pay charts. That 50k a year is only after your intial obligation is complete. Otherwise the only bonus you will get is the 3,000 a year VSP which is 250 bucks a month, and the DASP whatever the hell amount they finally come up with there between 4,000 and 10,000 per year. All other pay is simply from the pay charts of an O3 with X# of years plus BAH. It is laughable, but hey that's why most of us get the hell out the first chance we get.

Hope this helps.

PS I'm under stoploss too. :thumbup:
 
Blando said:
How are bravos treated in the army?
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They are prime for brigade slots and admin slots.

From other dentists, it depends on the bravo. Look at it this way, a bravo means absolutely nothing outside of the military and maybe an educational setting. Congratulations you are a specialist of general dentistry. However if you are planning on staying in the Military or perhaps education then having that specialty is helpfull. In private practice it's not going to make you any more money than a one year residency most likely. There are some bravo's that are awesome. There are some that are weeners. They somehow are "super dentists". Look don't get me wrong, it's a great program especially if you are considering the military for a career. My one year was incredibly good for me, and I think 2 years of constant mentoring would be great experience. But when it comes down to it your still a general dentist. Again, some of these guys think they are now head and shoulders better than everybody else, they think they are specialists in everything, and there are others that would just assume be the clinics oral surgeon. Hell our OIC (a full bird and a bravo) would rather be a hygeinist. She refers teeth like fully errupted #1, 16 to me, I don't mind.

To answer you question you are ripe for deployment, ripe for administrative jobs like OIC of a small clinic. There would be less of a chance of you just blending in and going to work. If I were to stay in the Military I would do that program because I like general dentistry, and the 50k a year is equal to the Oral Surgeons. (he he he :laugh:)
 
do any of you guys have any information about an exodontia program they have at fort leavenworth? i've only heard a little about it, maybe it doesn't exist. it's a 6 month program? if any of you active duty guys have information on it please let me know
 
i don't think it is at ft leavenworth. leavenworth is a very small post and has no need for the program. i'm very sure it is at ft leonard wood, MO. it is a 4 month course. afterwards you are typically assigned to a basic training site where there is need for a lot of extractions. you are supposed to spend 50% of your time afterwards doing extractions, the rest doing general dentistry. it doesn't affect pay or your ADSO.
 
And before some kid comes on here telling me which circle of hell I'm from:

Every single military female that has done the things that I've mentioned started out with the exact same statement that I quoted you using above. And to prove that I'm not a pig, military men try to use a power play of the same order: by screwing over everyone that they can possibly come in contact with, in order to achieve their own personal goals. I've fallen into the same trap myself, as have everyone else that's been in for at least a week.
The military's not about getting what YOU want. They give you all of those perks so that you can GIVE BACK. You're not getting loan repayment, etc, just because you're a great and wonderful person. It's because the soldiers need health care. If the soldiers go somewhere, then you will go there to help them. If you don't understand that, then you're gonna treat the person in your chair like a dog simply because they have on a uniform that you disrespect. THAT will be the experience that you learn. THIS is why military doctors and dentists get the bad rap that everyone's heard about.
So, before you sign anything, consider if you can keep your commitments in the face of people breezing by and screwing you over just because they think they're special (for the next large chunk of your life) and not become some angry jerk like me. Consider whether you can resist jerking some poor guy's jaw around just because you're mad at your commanding officer's choice of words on a report that your life depends on, just because the poor guy's an E-2. If you are thinking that your life is going to be taken away from you, then you're exactly correct. It's not about YOUR life, it's how you can USE your life to help other people and still feel like you're happy. This is exactly the problem when you so woefully proclaim that you don't want "to be deployed at a moment's notice". Saying such a thing is already disrespecting a life that you're considering being a part of.
This isn't me attacking you because of my opinion of the war or for any other reason, this is an opinion from someone who spent nearly a decade in the military and can attest to the things I've mentioned. Do you believe you can give the best care in the face of having your self-importance taken from you? Do you believe that doing so will make you an incredibly wonderful practitioner, or even understand how? Or are you scared by someone with a strong opinion, and wouldn't be able to clear your head to practice dentistry at your very best? Or are you too worried about leaving your current post because of your nice oak cabinets and easy commute?

This isn't me being mean or trying to scare you away. I'm just giving you a heads-up. You can spend your time in the military trying to run away from the dirty jobs, and screwing your peers over by doing so (as you seem to be doing already). Playing the system will basically cause you to worry the entire time, though, besides turning you into human garbage and screwing up your morality. Go read about the amalgam-caravan and the people who spend 4 years trying to avoid it, scrutinizing over every career decision. Then, realize that's why it exists in the first place. Then, ask yourself if you're ready to work next to jerks like me.
 
Wladziu said:
And before some kid comes on here telling me which circle of hell I'm from:

Every single military female that has done the things that I've mentioned started out with the exact same statement that I quoted you using above. And to prove that I'm not a pig, military men try to use a power play of the same order: by screwing over everyone that they can possibly come in contact with, in order to achieve their own personal goals. I've fallen into the same trap myself, as have everyone else that's been in for at least a week.
The military's not about getting what YOU want. They give you all of those perks so that you can GIVE BACK. You're not getting loan repayment, etc, just because you're a great and wonderful person. It's because the soldiers need health care. If the soldiers go somewhere, then you will go there to help them. If you don't understand that, then you're gonna treat the person in your chair like a dog simply because they have on a uniform that you disrespect. THAT will be the experience that you learn. THIS is why military doctors and dentists get the bad rap that everyone's heard about.
So, before you sign anything, consider if you can keep your commitments in the face of people breezing by and screwing you over just because they think they're special (for the next large chunk of your life) and not become some angry jerk like me. Consider whether you can resist jerking some poor guy's jaw around just because you're mad at your commanding officer's choice of words on a report that your life depends on, just because the poor guy's an E-2. If you are thinking that your life is going to be taken away from you, then you're exactly correct. It's not about YOUR life, it's how you can USE your life to help other people and still feel like you're happy. This is exactly the problem when you so woefully proclaim that you don't want "to be deployed at a moment's notice". Saying such a thing is already disrespecting a life that you're considering being a part of.
This isn't me attacking you because of my opinion of the war or for any other reason, this is an opinion from someone who spent nearly a decade in the military and can attest to the things I've mentioned. Do you believe you can give the best care in the face of having your self-importance taken from you? Do you believe that doing so will make you an incredibly wonderful practitioner, or even understand how? Or are you scared by someone with a strong opinion, and wouldn't be able to clear your head to practice dentistry at your very best? Or are you too worried about leaving your current post because of your nice oak cabinets and easy commute?

This isn't me being mean or trying to scare you away. I'm just giving you a heads-up. You can spend your time in the military trying to run away from the dirty jobs, and screwing your peers over by doing so (as you seem to be doing already). Playing the system will basically cause you to worry the entire time, though, besides turning you into human garbage and screwing up your morality. Go read about the amalgam-caravan and the people who spend 4 years trying to avoid it, scrutinizing over every career decision. Then, realize that's why it exists in the first place. Then, ask yourself if you're ready to work next to jerks like me.
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Behold the dangers of booze and a keyboard.
 
Yeah, yeah, nobody likes me, whatever.

It's an embarrassment to the profession to have so many people talking about worming their way out of deployments, or being shocked to hear they have to leave precious little Johnny with Aunt Jill.
 
Wladziu said:
Yeah, yeah, nobody likes me, whatever.

It's an embarrassment to the profession to have so many people talking about worming their way out of deployments, or being shocked to hear they have to leave precious little Johnny with Aunt Jill.
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I agree with much of what you have said. I get tired of people always wanting someone else to do the duty that their family member has signed up for. We are an Army of volunteers.

With that said, I do not plan on trying to get myself deployed. I will go when they tell me, but never would I want to leave my family behind. I think most people are not afraid of the dangers of Army dentistry---what they fear is returning from a 12 month deployment and having their kids not recognizing them. I don't know what your family situation is, but I know that most people who have young kids want to see every moment of their young lives. I gladly would sacrifice those moments for my country, but don't exactly welcome the thought.

Perhaps your message would be better received if the tone was not so filled with gender bias, and anger.
P.S. I would work next to you!
 
I agree with you 100%.
On every single deployment that I've been on, complaints were always kept to a minimum out of respect for the people with kids (besides also being extremely annoying). And, on every single deployment I've been on, it was the parents who actually did the least whining. They're some of the most noble people that I've ever met.
I wish this would catch on, over here.

The last four years that I was in the Army, I slept in my own bed for about a year and a half (non-consecutively). I can post the data sheet if anyone wants (I forget what it's called). I was at home, once, for barely enough time to see my wife carry to term, but I would have had to leave immediately following. We chose not to have kids because of this, and because I was afraid of making her a single mom. But, this was our choice, and we don't complain about it. I reenlisted with the knowledge that this was probably going to happen.
That's the military. It sucks, but you deal with it.
Maybe someone should start a new thread entitled "How to get out of deployments 101", to help the folks that want to just stay home. We used to call it "early retirement". I promise not to go on there and lose my composure.
 
sensitivejoi said:
Currently I am a senior graduating from dental school this year. The military did not pay for my education or have I recieve any monetary benefits. I have not signed up for the Army as of yet. I have not taken my physical or have been sworn in. I heard that I may be deployed if I go into active duty with the Army. My husband initally was happy that I was going into the army for the experience, extra training and the benefits. But now with this new information, what do i do. Is there a likely chance that I will be deployed at a moments notice even though I am a female with no desire to fight on the front line? I understand that I am signing up at time of war but I was not told much by the recruiter except that i would not be sent over seas.

I am posting only for some advice not to be attacked by anyone who has their own opinion about the war.
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the army is clearly not for you.
 
sl2obel2ts said:
i met an army recruiter today at some dental convention at my school. I liked the sound of it. My question is

can you rank/choose your deployment location? That would be cool, if I get to go to Korea since I am one.
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you can rank where you want to go, yes, but if none of those have positions available, you will get what you get.
the best way to go about this is to stay in contact with the person who determines assignments (CPT Pratt-Chambers, if you are a 63A).
with that being said, if you wanted korea, you could probably get it. it always has positions available, and not many actually want to go there, so if you made it one of your choices, you could probably have it.
 
Wladziu said:
My MOST sarcastic BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You haven't even signed up yet, and you're already trying to play the gender card to back out of responsibilities? Well, let's see... you can try to get sent to a post low on the deployable list like most women, if you can find an open slot (because of the women that are already there). You can lie to your husband about wanting to start a family, since pregnancy will get you sent home. (If his gonads haven't already shrunk from being in your presence.) You can flirt and flash your way up the chain of command, like every other Army female that I've seen. When you get to the guy with the power, you can screw him until he let's you stay on rear-detachment (which we've ALL seen before). Hell, you can even knock out the pregnancy thing, then, too! Lie to your husband, say it's good for your career or something. Or just tell him; I'm sure he won't mind.


And we all notice the doe-eyed "no desire to fight on the front line" thing. And the "not told much by the recruiter" thing. But, I'm assuming that you're over the age of 6 and have lived in this country long enough to know how the whole "America" thing works. So, before I get attacked for posting this, let me point out for everyone's benefit that I believe you already know how the system works (i.e. the same as it works for everyone else). This topic has been already covered. Therefore it appears that you're trying to play the system against itself, hoping that some dope will be dumb enough to tell you how to get out of doing sandbox time (and basically trading spaces with you) .
If you don't know how it works, then start asking the RIGHT questions. For example, exactly how dangerous is it to practice dentistry while deployed... or... (!!!) I would like to know how rewarding it is to practice while deployed (if I DO get sent), so that I may make the best decision for my life...
ALL of the experience, extra training, and benefits package is going to come at a cost. You're not special, your boobs aren't your golden ticket to paradise (unless you continue to cheapen yourself with statements such as the one I quoted you using).
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or you can whine a lot and talk about your daddy who was a 30-year full bird endodontist a lot. then, when you don't get the answer you want from the cpt who is supposed to answer your question, you call up one of your daddy's buddies and whine some more and kiss ass. you can also start throwing around words like "sexual harrassment" every now and then and a lot of people start getting scared to step on your toes.
 
Hey! Nobody said you could sit in the angry-chair while I was on vacation!

Which reminds me, what supplemental duties are to be expected, if any?
 
jmick101 said:
Behold the dangers of booze and a keyboard.
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Hey jmick101,

Great reply. It sounds as if this thread might be going a little south. That is unfortunate. It has been so helpful.
 
Anybody at OBLC that is starting tomorrow? What is with the gang out in the parking lot adjacent to quarters----are they enlisted or officers? Looks like fun, but I don't think we are invited.:)
 
Let's bring things back to a little more constructive topic, then...

I was recently reading in the last Dentaltown rag that MID (minimally invasive dentistry) through CAMBRA (Caries Management By Risk Assessment) originated in the military. The article was an excerpt from a forum thread, so I'm unsure of the authenticy. But, I find it very interesting, and I'd like to know if anyone currently practicing in the military has been using the CEREC test or following the MID approach.
The article speaks about CAMBRA being a hot topic in California, and that it's being taught in several West Coast schools. Since I'm hoping to attend my state school in NC, I'm wondering if there exists sufficient MID training through the military (in order not to be forced to take CE courses).
Let's please not have a discussion about the appropriateness of the MID approach.

Also, if anyone has actually used this methodology, do you find it extremely time consuming?
 
Wladziu said:
Let's bring things back to a little more constructive topic, then...

I was recently reading in the last Dentaltown rag that MID (minimally invasive dentistry) through CAMBRA (Caries Management By Risk Assessment) originated in the military. The article was an excerpt from a forum thread, so I'm unsure of the authenticy. But, I find it very interesting, and I'd like to know if anyone currently practicing in the military has been using the CEREC test or following the MID approach.
The article speaks about CAMBRA being a hot topic in California, and that it's being taught in several West Coast schools. Since I'm hoping to attend my state school in NC, I'm wondering if there exists sufficient MID training through the military (in order not to be forced to take CE courses).
Let's please not have a discussion about the appropriateness of the MID approach.

Also, if anyone has actually used this methodology, do you find it extremely time consuming?
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Wladziu,

MID & CAMBRA concepts are the conerstone of Army Dental Education with regards to Operative Dentistry. My dental school did a poor job at teaching these types of concepts. However, my Army Comprehensive Dental Residency made up the defficiancy in SPADES!! Also, I had access to CEREC machines in my residency and at my last duty station in Georgia!! Basically, if your dental school doesn't teach you about these concepts, the Army will....


SoonerFan
 
Very nice. I approve of this. :laugh:

Did it slow you down at all? Was it a complete 180, like I was reading? No one in my town has a clue about it. Anything you can tell me about it?

Side note: I saw an ungodly number of extractions today at a medicare clinic. A No.7 popped out, flew over the dentist's arm, over the patient, and hit me square in the mask. Awesome.:D


Is this thread ever going to a 6th page?!!! I'm tired of scrolling down!
 
Wladziu said:
Very nice. I approve of this. :laugh:

Did it slow you down at all? Was it a complete 180, like I was reading? No one in my town has a clue about it. Anything you can tell me about it?

Side note: I saw an ungodly number of extractions today at a medicare clinic. A No.7 popped out, flew over the dentist's arm, over the patient, and hit me square in the mask. Awesome.:D


Is this thread ever going to a 6th page?!!! I'm tired of scrolling down!
Click to expand...

Wladziu,

There has for many years been a large disconnect within the dental community. As a Profession we have been only focusing on fixing current dental caries with "surgery" on the teeth (i.e. resteration/filling). The approach you are inquiring about is in a group of methods which are aimed to use a Medical Model for treating dental caries. The group of methods says "hey, this is a bacterial problem so lets teat it as such" So, the teatment is on one hand actual treatment and on the other a different way of thinking!! If you will it is a shift from being a tooth technician to a doctor!!!!! Yes, I still have to treat caries that are extensive with resterations, but I treat people with multiple caries with Chlorhexidine, Fl-, and Xylitol suger. I educate the patient that if they literally have no "cavity forming bugs" they can eat a pound of sugar an hour and not get caries. Of course it is extrememly difficult to get rid of all the microbs, but studies do show that if held to quantifiable minimums than the chance of caries is very low. OK, OK, there is a lot more to it than that. But, everthing I have learned in this arena is all from my Army Residency.

To answer your time question...This method takes no time at all, maybe less due to the idea you treat less lesions. The problem in private practice is that if you remineralize lesions you will not make the $$$$$. Also, many Dental Professionals do not seem to know much about the Medical Approach to treating caries. However, I think the change is coming though!!


SoonerFan
 
I love it! Have you joined the WCMID? Have you compared them with military training?
I was hoping you could tell me some specifics. Did you immediately receive this training, or was it simply stressed by your unit? Were you even trained at all? Do you receive any certification? Do you use the MID approach with every patient? (I've never received this type of care from a military dentist, but I also have no cavities.) I've been reading snippets of info from the inter-tubes, but can you recommend any reading that I might understand as a lowly pre-dent? (I have no idea what Chlorhexidine is.) Are there TM's on this? How much would this approach add to civilian overhead?
 
Wladziu said:
I love it! Have you joined the WCMID? Have you compared them with military training?
I was hoping you could tell me some specifics. Did you immediately receive this training, or was it simply stressed by your unit? Were you even trained at all? Do you receive any certification? Do you use the MID approach with every patient? (I've never received this type of care from a military dentist, but I also have no cavities.) I've been reading snippets of info from the inter-tubes, but can you recommend any reading that I might understand as a lowly pre-dent? (I have no idea what Chlorhexidine is.) Are there TM's on this? How much would this approach add to civilian overhead?
Click to expand...

Wladziu,

This training was an intagral part of my Army Residency training!! I am not part of some organization or anything like that. This is a basic ideology for Comprehensive Dentist. The overhead is very minimal. This is really an ideology (approach to treating dental caries) rather than a revolutionary technologicaly advanced movement. If any organization you are finding is acting like this is some new concept they are misleading people (I do not know if this is what is going on?). However, I do applaud any group that is promoting this.

Yes, all the ideologies that you are refering to I do and believe in. This group of ideas are originally known as the Anderson Medical Model for Caries Management. If any Army Dentist did not practice around you with this concept in the past, it is b/c one of two reasons. #1- they know and do not want to apply what is collectively known as the "Medical Model" of Caries Management or #2 they simply are not educated on the concept (I was not in Dental School!!)

From what I know the original "author" of this concept is Dr. Max Anderson and you can search his many articles over this. His first was sometime in either the late 1980's or early 1990's, off the top of my head I can not remember the date.

If you would like to talk further just send me an e-mail and I will give you my phone #.


SoonerFan
 
Sent you a visitor message, Sooner.

That's interesting, unkcdds. Where did you receive your aegd training?
 
umkcdds said:
i just finished an aegd and i've never heard of either concept.
Click to expand...

umkcdds,

Somebody dropped the ball:confused: I find it even more interesting than Wladziu. Just look up Dr. Max Anderson.

SoonerFan
 
umkcdds said:
did the aegd at fort campbell.
Click to expand...

umkcdds,

At Fort Compbell's AEGD program you all really did not talk about minimally invasive dentistry or caries management by risk assesment (therapy driven by knowlege of caries risk, etc)? These are intagral concepts in the Comprehensive Program (AEGD-2) but I also thought they would be tought at all the AEGD (AEGD-1) programs as well. I know for a fact that they are tought at Fort Benning's AEGD b/c I was involved in the program.



SoonerFan
 
At Pacific CAMBRA is part of our first year curriculum and part of our Diagnosis and Treatment protocols. Funny thing is that there is some latent resentment/resistance to implementing it for some reason. We have some instructors who are all in and others who are apathetic at best about it. Personally, I am all for it and I am extremely pleased that the military is teaching it as part of some residencies. In fact, when I first heard about CAMBRA I wrote to my professor to see if the military had picked up on it.

And Wlidaziu, hope that you dont have to find out what chlorhexidine is the hard way. That stuff is just this side of palatable and the taste lasts for about half a day, but it works well.
 
SoonerFan said:
umkcdds,

At Fort Compbell's AEGD program you all really did not talk about minimally invasive dentistry or caries management by risk assesment (therapy driven by knowlege of caries risk, etc)? These are intagral concepts in the Comprehensive Program (AEGD-2) but I also thought they would be tought at all the AEGD (AEGD-1) programs as well. I know for a fact that they are tought at Fort Benning's AEGD b/c I was involved in the program.

SoonerFan
Click to expand...


therapy driven by knowledge of caries risk? do you have to have a specific name or regimen for this? isn't the standard of care for all therapy driven by the knowledge of caries risk? isn't it blatantly obvious to anyone that has been to dental school that you have to treat the source of the caries if you intend to treat the disease?

it doesn't take a rocket scientist, nor specific, special integral concepts taught by a "comprehensive" residency to prescribe chlorhexidine and prevident to a patient with a high caries risk, or to teach that patient how alter his habits to reduce his caries risk.

minimally invasive dentistry? hasn't this been been the standard of care since we quit following gv black's "extension for prevention techniques?" why would you provide any care that isn't the most minimally invasive required?
 
jmick101 said:
At Pacific CAMBRA is part of our first year curriculum and part of our Diagnosis and Treatment protocols. Funny thing is that there is some latent resentment/resistance to implementing it for some reason. We have some instructors who are all in and others who are apathetic at best about it. Personally, I am all for it and I am extremely pleased that the military is teaching it as part of some residencies. In fact, when I first heard about CAMBRA I wrote to my professor to see if the military had picked up on it.
Click to expand...

i've known enough dentists that have gone to UOP to know that you are lacking plenty of other stuff, namely practical clinical skills and knowledge, by not having completed four years of school. the didactic, textbook memorization of concepts for board exams is therefore less than impressive when it can't be applied to actual clinical treatment.
 
umkcdds said:
therapy driven by knowledge of caries risk? do you have to have a specific name or regimen for this? isn't the standard of care for all therapy driven by the knowledge of caries risk? isn't it blatantly obvious to anyone that has been to dental school that you have to treat the source of the caries if you intend to treat the disease?

it doesn't take a rocket scientist, nor specific, special integral concepts taught by a "comprehensive" residency to prescribe chlorhexidine and prevident to a patient with a high caries risk, or to teach that patient how alter his habits to reduce his caries risk.

minimally invasive dentistry? hasn't this been been the standard of care since we quit following gv black's "extension for prevention techniques?" why would you provide any care that isn't the most minimally invasive required?
Click to expand...

umkcdds,

I did not intend to push any hot buttons and I think jmick101 did not intend to either. I just read your initial post on this subject and you where the one who said you had never heard of either concept!! (post #242) Therefore, we started a good natured dialogue:rolleyes:

I would like to point out that many dentist see caries and the only therapy they render is a surgical approach (drill and fill). When instead it would be nice if they took the time to treat the cause and not just treat the end result. I think the resistance jmick101 might have gotten in dental school could have to do with the resistance to change ones mindset ("what ever I was tought first must be right"). Many dentist, if they know of this therapy, do not accept it or do not practice it (but I think this may be changing:)). This is the Medical Model for Caries Mangement instead of the traditional Surgical Model of Caries Management. Medical Model requires a diagnosis of an overwhelming infection in someones mouth and the Surgical Approach has no real pause for anything else but to anesthatize, prep and restore. There is less financial incentive for the Medical Model Approach. Lastly, studies support different restorations in different caries risk patients. So yes, I do different therapy in low, moderate, and high risk patients (high risk I aim at treating the infection with an antimicrobial, high PPM F-, & Xylitol). I do not use a cookie cutter approach to my therapy. I am not saying you do or do not, I am only stating what I do:love:


SoonerFan
 
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