Army selects new sidearm

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-new-pistol-of-choice/?utm_term=.b3770fe4281e

I've always been a SIG fanboy and a bit of an M9 hater, so I'm on board. I'm pretty familiar with the SIG decocking lever, but I wonder how others will do with a pistol that lacks a true safety. There was a Navy resident a few years ahead of me who, rumor has it, received a letter of admonishment for a negligent discharge of her M9 while deployed. I wonder if there will be more NDs with the new pistol.

Oh well, at least its not a Glock.

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-new-pistol-of-choice/?utm_term=.b3770fe4281e

I've always been a SIG fanboy and a bit of an M9 hater, so I'm on board. I'm pretty familiar with the SIG decocking lever, but I wonder how others will do with a pistol that lacks a true safety. There was a Navy resident a few years ahead of me who, rumor has it, received a letter of admonishment for a negligent discharge of her M9 while deployed. I wonder if there will be more NDs with the new pistol.

Oh well, at least its not a Glock.

I have a Sig at home and love it. It is leaps and bounds better than the M9s we use in the Navy. NDs occasionally happen in all branches. I watched a LEDET Coastie shoot himself in the leg doing quick draws when he caught himself on the holster.

The M9 is easy to use and easy to clean and repair, but the Navy did away with parts replacement now, and considering how often the locking blocks break on those things, the benefits they do have are not so beneficial anymore.

The familiarization issue is why we have training. You shouldn't be drawing your pistol unless you intend to use it, and the decocking lever isn't necessary unless you've fired a round. So most people in the Navy will only ever have to deal with it at the range, which is the perfect place to retrain yourself. As for the Army, I don't see why it should be an issue. The SEALs have used Sigs for years, and police departments have been switching to Sigs left and right without incident. It will just take some training. Hitting the decocking lever after firing instead of the safety shouldn't be too big a change.

 

[pgg]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-new-pistol-of-choice/?utm_term=.b3770fe4281e

I've always been a SIG fanboy and a bit of an M9 hater, so I'm on board. I'm pretty familiar with the SIG decocking lever, but I wonder how others will do with a pistol that lacks a true safety. There was a Navy resident a few years ahead of me who, rumor has it, received a letter of admonishment for a negligent discharge of her M9 while deployed. I wonder if there will be more NDs with the new pistol.

I doubt it there will be more NDs. Though I'm sure any ND that occurs will be blamed on the lack of a safety, and the gun will probably develop a reputation as being less safe than the M9.

My daily carry is a Sig P226 without a safety. It sits in a holster with one in the chamber 100% of the time and I have zero worry or concern that I'll ever have a ND.

People who have NDs are screwing around, period.


Speaking of screwing around, I've always thought clearing barrels were pants-on-head ******ed. Especially the ones at DFACs on FOBs. Let's take a bunch of people, especially ones who don't routinely handle weapons, and 3x per day at the chow hall, make them handle their weapons, unload them, mess around with a barrel, pull the trigger to prove the chamber is empty, all in the name of safety. Some idiot got a medal for that idea years ago, I'm sure.


I actually like the M9 and own an accurized one for competition. I don't like 1911s at all, don't have one. I think the Sig P220 is a better 45.

Oh well, at least its not a Glock.

Amen to that. I'd rather have a 1911 than a Glock.

 

[deleted480308]

NDs are the users fault with any quality modern firearm.

I also agree that firing barrels are a bad idea.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-new-pistol-of-choice/?utm_term=.b3770fe4281e

I've always been a SIG fanboy and a bit of an M9 hater, so I'm on board. I'm pretty familiar with the SIG decocking lever, but I wonder how others will do with a pistol that lacks a true safety. There was a Navy resident a few years ahead of me who, rumor has it, received a letter of admonishment for a negligent discharge of her M9 while deployed. I wonder if there will be more NDs with the new pistol.

Oh well, at least its not a Glock.

Sig is fine. HK would have been better, but their cost is an issue. The Glock hate is puzzling given how many LEOs carry them who have a higher probability of actually using their sidearm. The all-passive safety is easier to train and the build quality and weather-resistance are benchmark. If you can't accept a striker and have to have a hammer gun, and/or a manual external safety latch, then there is an issue, I suppose. A lot of armies issue them.

 

[Monty Python]

My daily carry is a Sig P226 without a safety. It sits in a holster with one in the chamber 100% of the time and I have zero worry or concern that I'll ever have a ND...

For those of us with an employer policy forbidding bringing a personal weapon onto employer property, what do you recommend? Employer will not accept any requests for exemption, even if the requestor has a CCW permit.

 

[pgg]

For those of us with an employer policy forbidding bringing a personal weapon onto employer property, what do you recommend? Employer will not accept any requests for exemption, even if the requestor has a CCW permit.

Same thing I do. I don't carry to and from work. I wouldn't carry in a hospital anyway. My clothing (scrubs) and activities aren't compatible with concealment and positive control over a handgun. I've known people who keep a handgun in a purse, fanny pack, or backpack they take everywhere in the hospital ... but me personally, I can't seem to go 3 days without leaving my stethoscope in an OR, I'm not playing that game with a gun.

I might make a distinction between private property with a policy forbidding weapons, and federal property. I wouldn't bring a firearm onto a military base, into a post office, etc. The consequences of it being seen would involve prosecution and other nastiness. The owners of private property can set what rules they want, but the consequences of being discovered are simply being asked to leave, or getting fired if they employ you. So for a hospital private property, I might consider carrying to & from, but leaving the firearm secured in the vehicle. Easy enough to put a handgun safe in a car, behind/under a seat, cable locked to the frame of the seat.

If Tasers aren't specifically mentioned in the policy, that might be an option. Even pepper spray is better than harsh language.

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm pretty familiar with the SIG decocking lever, but I wonder how others will do with a pistol that lacks a true safety.

I believe that the one that was involved in Army testing had an external safety. I'll bet the external safety makes it on to the ones issued to soldiers.

 

[Shikima]

Sig P229 in .40. You've got a good balance and can carry more than a .45.
Glock is good due to more plastic than metal. I don't like the plastic.

I do appreciate the auto decocking lever that comes on Sig. No matter how safe you are, there is always that chance for it discharge when doing a manual decocking.

 

[deleted480308]

For those of us with an employer policy forbidding bringing a personal weapon onto employer property, what do you recommend? Employer will not accept any requests for exemption, even if the requestor has a CCW permit.

You can lose your job if it's just a term of employment. If your state makes it illegal to carry in a hospital it becomes a crime and then you can lose the gun forever. I won't carry on federal bases even though my state allows me to carry on NG duty. I have state permission, not federal.

Whether you are willing to risk you job is up to you, a guy in TX was carrying against protocol and used his gun to stop a psych patient that tried to kill a bunch of people. Managed to keep his job but if he had been caught in a non-hero moment probably would have been fired.

Tough call

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

I don't like 1911s at all, don't have one.

Somebody call Senator McCarthy, that's flat Un-American

If it was good enough for Pershing, Patton, and Plumley, it's good enough for me.

 

[Shikima]

Somebody call Senator McCarthy, that's flat Un-American

If it was good enough for Pershing, Patton, and Plumley, it's good enough for me.

I want to see tears!!

 

[DeadCactus]

The .40 is such an overrated round.

 

[Shikima]

Nah. .45 is.
9mm used to be underrated, but with new projectile advancements, it's a lot better.

 

[Shikima]

But it's fun? Better than talking medicine all of the time or how patients are noncompliant but want you to fix it.

 

[DeadCactus]

There's no more argument for the .40 than there is an argument against vaccines.

 

[pgg]

Nah. .45 is.
9mm used to be underrated, but with new projectile advancements, it's a lot better.

The day we start issuing 9mm hollow points in the military is the day it'll be an adequate round for a military sidearm.

Stupid Hague Convention.

.45acp is harder to shoot well than 9mm, but the military doesn't care about pistol marksmanship. Maybe magazine capacity should win out.

Nobody likes 40s&w but the FBI, and not even them any more.


I used to carry a .45 (a P220 not a 1911) when I lived in an oppressed state with magazine capacity restrictions. I figured if I could only have 10 rounds, they might as well be big ones. Now I have a choice and I carry a 9mm.


Chili must have beans in it, too.

 

[schmoob]

The day we start issuing 9mm hollow points in the military is the day it'll be an adequate round for a military sidearm.

Stupid Hague Convention.

.45acp is harder to shoot well than 9mm, but the military doesn't care about pistol marksmanship. Maybe magazine capacity should win out.

Nobody likes 40s&w but the FBI, and not even them any more.


I used to carry a .45 (a P220 not a 1911) when I lived in an oppressed state with magazine capacity restrictions. I figured if I could only have 10 rounds, they might as well be big ones. Now I have a choice and I carry a 9mm.


Chili must have beans in it, too.

It might actually be a thing...
https://thearmsguide.com/12008/12008/

I doubt it there will be more NDs. Though I'm sure any ND that occurs will be blamed on the lack of a safety, and the gun will probably develop a reputation as being less safe than the M9.

My daily carry is a Sig P226 without a safety. It sits in a holster with one in the chamber 100% of the time and I have zero worry or concern that I'll ever have a ND.

People who have NDs are screwing around, period.


Speaking of screwing around, I've always thought clearing barrels were pants-on-head ******ed. Especially the ones at DFACs on FOBs. Let's take a bunch of people, especially ones who don't routinely handle weapons, and 3x per day at the chow hall, make them handle their weapons, unload them, mess around with a barrel, pull the trigger to prove the chamber is empty, all in the name of safety. Some idiot got a medal for that idea years ago, I'm sure.


I actually like the M9 and own an accurized one for competition. I don't like 1911s at all, don't have one. I think the Sig P220 is a better 45.




Amen to that. I'd rather have a 1911 than a Glock.

I agree, I've never witnessed any ND's with the Sig. If it would happen with the Sig, it would happen with the M9.
Also, out of curiosity, what FOB had clearing barrels outside the DFACs? Not doubting you, it's just that I've never seen that before.

 

[pgg]

It might actually be a thing...
https://thearmsguide.com/12008/12008/

Interesting. Good news if they actually do it.

Also, out of curiosity, what FOB had clearing barrels outside the DFACs? Not doubting you, it's just that I've never seen that before.

Our DFAC at Bagram had them (2004).

They're even used some places in the US - Ft Jackson had them. I did part of my pre-deployment workup there prior to going to Afghanistan again in 2012. It's a good thing they didn't issue us any ammo, because a bunch of doctors and nurses, lots of them with crappy non-issue shoulder holsters, handling their Berettas at every meal time, would've been asking for it.

Not sure exactly where else I've seen them. So many delicious meals at so many DFACs, they all blur together.

 

[Shikima]

Ooooh, shiny! My precious! BLAM!

 

[schmoob]

Interesting. Good news if they actually do it.




Our DFAC at Bagram had them (2004).

They're even used some places in the US - Ft Jackson had them. I did part of my pre-deployment workup there prior to going to Afghanistan again in 2012. It's a good thing they didn't issue us any ammo, because a bunch of doctors and nurses, lots of them with crappy non-issue shoulder holsters, handling their Berettas at every meal time, would've been asking for it.

Not sure exactly where else I've seen them. So many delicious meals at so many DFACs, they all blur together.

I'm guessing Ft. Jackson for IA training?
I was in BAF briefly in 2012 as well before moving on to another FOB. No clearing barrels when I was there. Green on Blue was a big deal at the time too. 2004 was likely a whole other situation, but I was not there in that time period.

And what was up with those ridiculous "Dragnet" shoulder holsters?!?! I also saw a number of medical personnel that used them and I wasn't sure if those were authorized or not, but I know now. They looked ridiculous.

 

[Apollyon]

Somebody call Senator McCarthy, that's flat Un-American

If it was good enough for Pershing, Patton, and Plumley, it's good enough for me.

"We Were Soldiers" is on right now, coincidentally, but I liked this post so much, over all these months, I wish I could like it twice!

 

[pgg]

"We Were Soldiers" is on right now, coincidentally, but I liked this post so much, over all these months, I wish I could like it twice!

Meh. SDN needs a "don't like" button ...

Wooden ships and black powder were good enough for John Paul Jones, but the world has advanced since then.

Yesterday at 50 yards with my 9 mm Beretta and factory ammo (from a rest):

I usually shoot 124 gr XTP progressive reloads from it, but wanted to see if it would shoot 147s well too before buying a bunch of them to handload.

Don't need no stinkin' 1911 ...

(Exceptionally clever observers might notice that the target is a 25-y B-8 ... I was out of 50-y B-6 targets so put the 25 at 50.)

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

I want one.

New sidearm issued to Tomb Guards

 

[TheEarDoc]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-new-pistol-of-choice/?utm_term=.b3770fe4281e

I've always been a SIG fanboy and a bit of an M9 hater, so I'm on board. I'm pretty familiar with the SIG decocking lever, but I wonder how others will do with a pistol that lacks a true safety. There was a Navy resident a few years ahead of me who, rumor has it, received a letter of admonishment for a negligent discharge of her M9 while deployed. I wonder if there will be more NDs with the new pistol.

Oh well, at least its not a Glock.

I would have rather seen us go with the CZ P-09. It's NATO tested, dang near bomb proof, and any war zone we would have plenty of spare parts and mags since it's all interchangeable.

I own several CZ pistols including a couple CZ 75's and an SP-01 and they are awesome and dang near indestructible.

I never understood the Glock hate either. They are great pistols unless you've shot other style pistols say 1911 and then they feel like you're holding a wooden block in your hand until you figure out how to shoot them. I've only ever heard of a few of the .40 glocks going boom in the hand for no apparent reason.

Sig makes great guns though and I loved the 226 I had for awhile, but I traded it in for my SP-01 when I was shooting comps and I am glad I did.