Are You Even Happy With a Career in Medicine?

[buckley]

Many physicians don't realize this, but they have the potential to excel in many careers outside of the clinical world. Some have a strong business sense and they make excellent entrepreneurs. Others are very creative and are great at writing. Keep and open mind and explore "outside of the box" to maintain career satisfaction.

I think the problem is medicine is so demanding you hardly have time or energy to explore other fields. I can't even remember the last time I read fiction since starting residency

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[anonymousername]

So after a lot of soul searching (and a month of shadowing) I've come to the decision that I would like to pursue medicine.

I think it came down to several reasons:

-I don't want to be a "small business owner." It seems as though in dentistry, the only way to make a substantial salary is to buy or open up your own business. I take no joy in buying equipment, paying overhead, hiring employees, paying their salary, finding customers, ect. In the future, if I want to own a business I would much rather do FP than dentistry.

-The interest. After shadowing several physicians, I can definitely say that I'm interested. Right now I marvel at how the human body works and I really want to understand it. If I peruse dentistry, I will never truly know and will always think about "what could have been?"

-The prestige. This is a very naive reason but it is a reason nonetheless. I chose to go to a top 20 undergrad school rather than taking a full ride to Chico State because the perception of being intelligent is important to me. Being a physician is considered the most noble profession that only the most intelligent people can become, although this is only partly true, I would like to be a part of this group.



I know that my specialty will play a huge role in my lifestyle and overall happiness in my career. I cannot choose or rule out any specialty right now because I don't know anything about medicine. But I know that when the time comes, I will make an informed and intelligent decision and take lifestyle and happiness into consideration. I am exited about the path that I have chosen and I'm more motivated now to do well in school so that I will have many options in the future.

 

[Substance]

So after a lot of soul searching (and a month of shadowing) I've come to the decision that I would like to pursue medicine.

I think it came down to several reasons:

-I don't want to be a "small business owner." It seems as though in dentistry, the only way to make a substantial salary is to buy or open up your own business. I take no joy in buying equipment, paying overhead, hiring employees, paying their salary, finding customers, ect. In the future, if I want to own a business I would much rather do FP than dentistry.

-The interest. After shadowing several physicians, I can definitely say that I'm interested. Right now I marvel at how the human body works and I really want to understand it. If I peruse dentistry, I will never truly know and will always think about "what could have been?"

-The prestige. This is a very naive reason but it is a reason nonetheless. I chose to go to a top 20 undergrad school rather than taking a full ride to Chico State because the perception of being intelligent is important to me. Being a physician is considered the most noble profession that only the most intelligent people can become, although this is only partly true, I would like to be a part of this group.



I know that my specialty will play a huge role in my lifestyle and overall happiness in my career. I cannot choose or rule out any specialty right now because I don't know anything about medicine. But I know that when the time comes, I will make an informed and intelligent decision and take lifestyle and happiness into consideration. I am exited about the path that I have chosen and I'm more motivated now to do well in school so that I will have many options in the future.

Gravitate to these fields:

Radiology
Dermatology
Radiation oncology
Anaesthesia
Ophthalmology

These fields are prestigious and well-paying, as well as relatively humane.

 

[Acherona]

Gravitate to these fields:

Radiology
Dermatology
Radiation oncology
Anaesthesia
Ophthalmology

These fields are prestigious and well-paying, as well as relatively humane.

Give it a break, the OP has 4yrs of med school to get indoctrinated. I don't respect a dermatologist any more than an internist. In fact I respect them less because they are generally money-grubbing prissy type-A neurotics. The general public thinks a radiologist is a low-level technician and can't tell the difference between an ophthalmologist and optometrist. Maybe they feel really good about themselves for studying 16hrs a day for step 1 but nobody else really cares.

 

[asmallchild]

Gravitate to these fields:

Radiology
Dermatology
Radiation oncology
Anaesthesia
Ophthalmology

These fields are prestigious and well-paying, as well as relatively humane.

Prestige is in the eye of the beholder.

Well-paying is a definition that has undergone tremendous change in the medical field and will continue to change (not in a direction that many healthcare providers would like either)

Relatively humane? I can't argue with this. It wasn't a huge factor in pursuing one of these fields myself but after completing half of my internship year (at a relatively benign place mind you), I would be lying if I told you I wasn't looking forward to that perk as a PGY-2.

 

[asmallchild]

I don't respect a dermatologist any more than an internist. In fact I respect them less because they are generally money-grubbing prissy type-A neurotics.

Who gave you my business card?

 

[Substance]

Give it a break, the OP has 4yrs of med school to get indoctrinated. I don't respect a dermatologist any more than an internist. In fact I respect them less because they are generally money-grubbing prissy type-A neurotics. The general public thinks a radiologist is a low-level technician and can't tell the difference between an ophthalmologist and optometrist. Maybe they feel really good about themselves for studying 16hrs a day for step 1 but nobody else really cares.

Just for perspective's sake, how much call do you do, and how much of that call is non-stop 24 hour action?

 

[brodaiga]

I, at one point, too, tackled with this issue but am happy to be an MS4. I also have a family full of dentists pushing in me in that direction. A person should figure out what is important to them and what they enjoy. What makes my choices unique is that I am married to medicine but have a love affair with being an entrepreneur. I have had a business all throughout medical school. My take:

1. lifestyle
-lifestyle is very important to me. I want my free time to spend on business and with my family. If it is important to you, choose a specialty that allows a controllable set of hours, although you may take a hit in income (unless you do ophtho, plastics, etc). That power to work as little or as many hours as you want is true freedom. You can use the extra time off to pursue more money in business if you feel that your salary is not enough or other activities if passions lie elsewhere.

it is true you have little control over your hours during med school and residency, but once you are out. if you chose the right specialty and find the right job, you are your own man. it goes without saying though, you must enjoy that specialty and dedicate yourself to your work and patients during the time that you are at work.

2. Prestige
I care about this less so than most people. I care little about what the average person thinks. Especially considering two careers already in high regard like dentists and doctors. So, a doctor is perceived to be smarter, who the **** cares? Do you base your sense of well being, esteem, and feeling of personal accomplishment over something so trivial? And I am sick of intelligence, as intelligence based on the IQ test, board scores, being such a penis measuring contest. Intelligence does not equal success. Any definition of success, whether it be to become some academic chair, start free clinics, or become filthy rich does not mainly derive from your analytical, verbal or spatial reasoning being at a 20% higher level than others. Intelligence helps, but it is just one factor, arguably resourcefulness, emotional intelligence, and networking are more important if not moreso.

I also care little about whether my chosen specialty is more or less respected by colleagues. I will get my satisfaction from improving the lives of my future patients and receiving a heartfelt thank you. If some surgeon who considers it a duty to spend 100 hours in the hospital looks down on me, or some other physicians committed to altruism see me as selfish for not having long term care relationships with my patients, I again say, who cares. Do your chosen specialty well, and have the best outcomes for your patients.

3. Interest
Medicine is way more interesting than dentistry, more satisfying, etc.

4. Money
If you want more, become an entrepreneur. You don't even have to love business or have a passion. A lot of doctors have stuff on the side, real estate, franchises, other investments. You will be a doctor, and if you live your life below your means, you will have money to play with. Also, and this is a pet peeve of mine. There is this stereotype that you will be a doctor and buy this big mercedes, or bmw what have you. In my opinion, the doctor that is making average salary, say 200k, that walks in the dealership and drops 75k is a financial idiot. Everything can be bought bought at a better deal, as someone with future money, you should not throw it around on liabilities instead of investments. You want that car? Find a friend with a dealer's license, go to private dealer's auction, and get the same model that is 2-3 years old for 35k, and pay cash, and write it off as a business expense for that business you have on the side. get it?

I apologize for the ranting. The point of this exercise was to show that it is quite possible to enjoy the pros of medicine compared to dentistry while minimizing if not eliminating the cons.

Take the road less traveled by man...

 

[Substance]

Good job! That is exactly the way to do it. NEVER buy a brand new car unless you earn so much money that it just sits there and would never be used. If you buy brand new in cash, you lost so much money the split second you drive off the lot.

Exactly. If you want to buy luxuries, make sure that it's with money you could literally burn with no remorse.

Take for instance a coffee from the cafeteria. It's nice. I like it. But if I were to lose that dollar that I would have used to pay for the coffee, I'd be pretty unconcerned.

Now, imagine the same thing except with that 100k you're using to buy a Ferrari. Would you be able to just lose that 100k and not care? If you care, then don't spend it. It's a lot of money.

 

[wagmanager]

this is one of the most honest heartfelt posts i've seen on here in ages. everybody behaves as if their desire to go into medicine if fueled only by their humane and caring nature.i don't think that's so. there's nothing wrong with wanting to be compensated for your job. if you have no interest in money then by all means join doctors without boarders or some other NGO. i don't care what motivated my doctor as long as long he's a good doctor. Fancy having a doctor who has no clue what's doing but he went into medicine because he wanted to "make a difference" Oh the cliche!.
it's just like sometimes you go for a job interview and they skirt around the pay and nobody wants to mention it when excuse me isn't that the whole reason you're there.
Anyway that's my thoughts on the matter

 

[anonymousername]

To be quite honest, I keep flip flopping everyday, which is making me less confident that medicine is for me.

I hate the idea of a "lifetime of learning" in medicine and I want to be reward for my work soon. I'm halfway through my junior year and the thought of getting payed back for all this work in my early to mid 30's is not the best motivation I need right now.


I'm not really enthusiastic about dentistry but it's just a job, everyone has to do one. I might as well have a job that pays around as much as a physician and allows for 3 day weekends. Maybe medicine should be more of a hobby...

 

[anonymousername]

out of curiosity though, how are PCP's salary and lifestyle compared to a general dentist? i can't find too much literature about it

 

[Substance]

out of curiosity though, how are PCP's salary and lifestyle compared to a general dentist? i can't find too much literature about it

I can't quote it, but from my experience if you want to make bank and work a normal set of hours, go for orthodontics.

FP is annoying. I'd steer clear of it.

 

[rmbsstock]

out

 

[anonymousername]

Dear anonymousername, I would like to help you here, if I don't then forgive my big mouth. I just came from having dinner at my best friend's house. Her husband is a PCP. He owns his own practice. I never ever chose my friends to be my doctors, but I call him sometimes when I am having an emergency on the weekends or at night time. So I know a lot about him. He has a very relaxing life. He never ever overbooks his patients. He runs his clinic by himself without other doctors. Every summer he goes on vacations, and he has other doctors covering for him. Sometimes he does rotations at the VA hospital, but he does not have to. If he has admissions at the hospital, he goes on the weekend to check on them, but usually it does not take all his weekend because he would not have more than 5 or 6 admissions on a weekend. He has his pager on him at night time, but he rarely ever goes out of the house, he answers the questions on the phone. I referred several of my friends to him, and they all came back VERY happy. One example is: I have a co worker who is extremely overweight, and our work requires physicals every year and TB tests and ...She HATES going to doctors, and she was ready to lose her job over it. She stated that doctors always treat her like "crap" and they look down on her because she is fat and....I suggested my friend. Make the story short, she came back almost in tears telling me he was very kind, and he respected her. He didn't preach blah blah blah...His income is great. He is sending his second son this year to the University. I would say 80% of his schedule during the week is from 8-5. I am very close to him and his family, so if you want me to ask him a specific question, I do not mind doing that.
As for the dentist lifestyle, my brother and his girlfriend are graduating this year from Buffalo State University as dentists. My brother loves to own his own business, but he chose first to join the Navy, who is paying now for his schooling, and after his graduation, the Navy is sending him to Washington for his specialty. The good thing is that at the beginning he doesn't have to worry about insurance or paying back big debt. In fact, he will be working and practicing with the Navy. After that, he is planning to have his own practice. His girlfriend's parents both own their own practice, and both teach at the University. They started teaching just for fun. They have the best life style. The income is great. And after vacationing for many years, and getting tired of it (I do not know how that feels) what they do now is that they take students from the dental school each summer to very poor countries, and they do dental work for the people there for free.
If you have any questions that you want me to ask my brother, or his girlfriend's parents do not hesitate to ask. I hope I was able to help.
Thank You

Thanks but after talking it over with a few of the physicians I shadowed I realized that FP's are not where I want to be. I think I'll stick with dentistry.

 

[rmbsstock]

Thanks but after talking it over with a few of the physicians I shadowed I realized that FP's are not where I want to be. I think I'll stick with dentistry.

 

[brodaiga]

Dear anonymousername, I would like to help you here, if I don't then forgive my big mouth. I just came from having dinner at my best friend's house. Her husband is a PCP. He owns his own practice. I never ever chose my friends to be my doctors, but I call him sometimes when I am having an emergency on the weekends or at night time. So I know a lot about him. He has a very relaxing life. He never ever overbooks his patients. He runs his clinic by himself without other doctors. Every summer he goes on vacations, and he has other doctors covering for him. Sometimes he does rotations at the VA hospital, but he does not have to. If he has admissions at the hospital, he goes on the weekend to check on them, but usually it does not take all his weekend because he would not have more than 5 or 6 admissions on a weekend. He has his pager on him at night time, but he rarely ever goes out of the house, he answers the questions on the phone. I referred several of my friends to him, and they all came back VERY happy. One example is: I have a co worker who is extremely overweight, and our work requires physicals every year and TB tests and ...She HATES going to doctors, and she was ready to lose her job over it. She stated that doctors always treat her like "crap" and they look down on her because she is fat and....I suggested my friend. Make the story short, she came back almost in tears telling me he was very kind, and he respected her. He didn't preach blah blah blah...His income is great. He is sending his second son this year to the University. I would say 80% of his schedule during the week is from 8-5. I am very close to him and his family, so if you want me to ask him a specific question, I do not mind doing that.
As for the dentist lifestyle, my brother and his girlfriend are graduating this year from Buffalo State University as dentists. My brother loves to own his own business, but he chose first to join the Navy, who is paying now for his schooling, and after his graduation, the Navy is sending him to Washington for his specialty. The good thing is that at the beginning he doesn't have to worry about insurance or paying back big debt. In fact, he will be working and practicing with the Navy. After that, he is planning to have his own practice. His girlfriend's parents both own their own practice, and both teach at the University. They started teaching just for fun. They have the best life style. The income is great. And after vacationing for many years, and getting tired of it (I do not know how that feels) what they do now is that they take students from the dental school each summer to very poor countries, and they do dental work for the people there for free.
If you have any questions that you want me to ask my brother, or his girlfriend's parents do not hesitate to ask. I hope I was able to help.
Thank You

funny, you should post this, my relatives went to UB and just recently opened up their own Dental practice in Amherst/Clarence

 

[anonymousername]

yeah, I'm definitely doing dentistry. I just need to make sure that I don't watch another episode of Greys Anatomy, House, ER, Mercy, etc. so that I don't get a lopsided view of what medicine is really about.

 

[thedrjojo]

my older brother is in business/sales (sells circuit breakers or systems from GE to corporations, or something mindnumbing like that) and typically works 70-80hrs a week and now he is planning on doing business school part time so he can advance to managerial positions... Business ownership is much more risky and can be just as much time consuming as medicine, and you are much more likely to bust or even just make minimal profits than you are to be living the easy life at 6 figures... so the grass isn't really greener on the other side always.

As for Dentistry vs Medicine, it is like comparing apples to oranges. You couldn't pay me enough to provide dental care... I have no interest in teeth... OMFS is really the only thing I would consider from dentistry, but then that is closer to Surgery/Medicine than it is to Dentistry (in both hours, time in school, etc). And I feel with the high suicide rate in dentists (is that still the job with the #1 suicide rate?) is reflective of the fact that people see it as an easy way to bank money and don't realize how depressing the job can be, especially if you aren't interested in it at all. Good insight for an undergard though

 

[Black Adder]

my older brother is in business/sales (sells circuit breakers or systems from GE to corporations, or something mindnumbing like that) and typically works 70-80hrs a week and now he is planning on doing business school part time so he can advance to managerial positions... Business ownership is much more risky and can be just as much time consuming as medicine, and you are much more likely to bust or even just make minimal profits than you are to be living the easy life at 6 figures... so the grass isn't really greener on the other side always.

As for Dentistry vs Medicine, it is like comparing apples to oranges. You couldn't pay me enough to provide dental care... I have no interest in teeth... OMFS is really the only thing I would consider from dentistry, but then that is closer to Surgery/Medicine than it is to Dentistry (in both hours, time in school, etc). And I feel with the high suicide rate in dentists (is that still the job with the #1 suicide rate?) is reflective of the fact that people see it as an easy way to bank money and don't realize how depressing the job can be, especially if you aren't interested in it at all. Good insight for an undergard though

This shouldn't even factor into the decision making process of choosing to pursue dentistry or medicine... I would bet the suicide rate for doctors is just as high, if not higher than that of dentists.

As for your other points, I agree 100%. You don't necessarily have to open up your own practice as a dentist, but if you do, you'll be encountering all the headaches of starting up and maintaining a small business.

 

[filter07]

I read somewhere that medicine now has the #1 suicide rate and #1 divorce rate. At least we're still the best at something.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2301/do-dentists-have-the-highest-suicide-rate
http://www.newsweek.com/id/132887

 

[lipomas]

I believe the divorce rate statistic. Lots of people going through the process to become a physician get married for the wrong reasons. Some get married too early before they have had a frank discussion with their partner about the true difficulty and costs of what they are going to be going through. Some get married during medical school or residency to another med student - their relationship is fine during training but once they get into the real world, have kids, have to pay bills, etc, they realize that their compatibility is based almost solely on being students/residents together. Others begin to realize that they can't handle a commitment like marriage while still devoting as much time as they think their career needs. Also, people change - med school and residency happen during significant years in your life - the transition between child to adult. For some people, that happens sooner than for others. And when it does, your interests and partner desires begin to change.

As someone married to a non-medical spouse, you need to find YOUR appropriate balance between career and personal life, and find someone who fits into that lifestyle. For some MDs, career is a 9-5 job and home life is separate. But for others, the two increasingly overlap. Many spouses cannot handle this. You need to know if your spouse can handle it before you take the plunge.

In the years I was in med school, I think 5-10% of my class ended relationships that we either in marriage or leading towards marriage. And since then, some of the ones who have gotten married have split up.

 

[anonymousername]

It's going to be dentistry. A thanks is in order to all of the physicians on here (and the ones that contacted me through PM) the last 4 months have been a headache and I think the smart thing to do is to opt for the easy life. I guess I realized that after getting into medical school, the students fight tooth-and-nail to get a residency that has the same lifestyle as dentistry. I guess the ignorance of not really knowing what medicine has in store for pre-meds is bliss.

out.

 

[scrubswannabe]

It's going to be dentistry. A thanks is in order to all of the physicians on here (and the ones that contacted me through PM) the last 4 months have been a headache and I think the smart thing to do is to opt for the easy life. I guess I realized that after getting into medical school, the students fight tooth-and-nail to get a residency that has the same lifestyle as dentistry. I guess the ignorance of not really knowing what medicine has in store for pre-meds is bliss.

out.

I know you've made your decision already but really? does dentistry always provide the easier life? I don't know about that - because whereas you can be a physician and work in a hospital, as a dentist you basically have to start your own pratice and that itself might be harder for the less business savvy.

It's just a thought.

 

[anonymousername]

I know you've made your decision already but really? does dentistry always provide the easier life? I don't know about that - because whereas you can be a physician and work in a hospital, as a dentist you basically have to start your own pratice and that itself might be harder for the less business savvy.

It's just a thought.

I actually see this as a benefit. As much as I dislike the idea of opening my own shop, I've realized after some shadowing that I dislike the idea of working in a hospital more. By having my own practice, I will be in control of my environment.

I will get to choose who I work with, when I want to come to work (or not come to work), how long of a lunch I want to take, how many pts I want to see in a day, etc.

A hospital seems like the worst place to spend the majority of my thirties, forties, and fifties. I've never really been fond of the environment with the plain colors and dingy appearance, tired co-workers, sick people , constant turf-wars, the sheer amount of people looking over your shoulder to find mistakes. (among other things)

 

[anonymousername]

Oh and yes. From my perspective dentistry seems to always provide more opportunities for an easier life.

The way that I've been thinking about it recently is that dermatology and radiology are the holy grail for physicians who desire both lifestyle and income. The most competitive students are the ones who can match into these specialties and after 4 years of medical school and another 3-4 years of residency, they have gotten into a field which provides a comparable lifestyle and a slightly higher income as dentistry in double the time.

I personally am happy with my choice and I'm glad that I made the more intelligent decision for me.

 

[BlueManGroup]

I wouldn't close the medical school door forever.

There are many dentists that decide to go to medical school after they become a dentist. This is much more common than you think.

Good luck with your choice. Just remember no choice is ever final.

Oh and yes. From my perspective dentistry seems to always provide more opportunities for an easier life.

The way that I've been thinking about it recently is that dermatology and radiology are the holy grail for physicians who desire both lifestyle and income. The most competitive students are the ones who can match into these specialties and after 4 years of medical school and another 3-4 years of residency, they have gotten into a field which provides a comparable lifestyle and a slightly higher income as dentistry in double the time.

I personally am happy with my choice and I'm glad that I made the more intelligent decision for me.

 

[anonymousername]

I wouldn't close the medical school door forever.

There are many dentists that decide to go to medical school after they become a dentist. This is much more common than you think.

Good luck with your choice. Just remember no choice is ever final.

thanks for your advice. are you a physician?

 

[scut25]

a few points that I was told when I was in your situation about 6 years ago:

Advisor: Would you rather be bored or frustrated?
Me: Why do you ask that?
Advisor: just answer my question.
Me: Frustrated I guess, when I get bored I get mad, so might as well jump to the frustrated portion right away.
Advisor: Become a physician, you'll fit in nicely.
Me: but denistry has an easier life style and there's no residency.
Advisor: you just told me you didn't like to be bored.
me: good point, i'll do med school


"I think you are right to look at medicine from a selfish standpoint. When you are on your 30th hour making less than the pharm rep who majored in sorority makeovers and doing the walk of shame, remembering self interested motives goes a long way."
- this is a good point that someone made earlier, what is up with this??? why do most pharm reps carry these qualities

Medicine is as hard or as bad or as fun as you make it. I personally love b/c it is really challenge. There's nothing better than a good challange.

It's not fun to dig in someone's mouth all day while they are awake, but it is fun to dig in someone's abdomen while they are sleeping.

your first patient will worship you for fixing their strep throat, the next patient will curse you for a liver transplant. prestige is unpredicalbe and is fading. with webmd out there, everyone thinks they know, but they have no idea.

one of my friend's a dentist, they do pretty well. not something i'd be jealous over though. they live comfortably. he did it for the life style. he's not happy at work, but it's a nice paycheck.
my other friend just graduated residency...he does well also (in rad onc). he likes going to work. he's in debt, but not for long probably!!! also a nice lifestyle from what i hear.

my wife is physician assistant. you can do pretty well there. they never get any credit for anything though. my wife is a bit younger, been practicing for 2 years, did pa school right out of college, not to mention she looks like she's about 16. about 7 times a day she gets asked when she'll be a real doctor. frustrating, but provides us with a nice salary and no debt (she went to a state school). i hear you can become a surgical pa a make 6 digits after a few years. might be worth it if you like to operate. sweet lifestyle, less pay.

that's all i can think of for now.

 

[michaelrack]

I actually see this as a benefit. As much as I dislike the idea of opening my own shop, I've realized after some shadowing that I dislike the idea of working in a hospital more. By having my own practice, I will be in control of my environment.

I will get to choose who I work with, when I want to come to work (or not come to work), how long of a lunch I want to take, how many pts I want to see in a day, etc.

Very few physicians have their own practice right out of residency, with the exception of some psychiatrists. It will be a long time before you are able to choose how long of a lunch break you will take.

 

[anonymousername]

Very few physicians have their own practice right out of residency, with the exception of some psychiatrists. It will be a long time before you are able to choose how long of a lunch break you will take.

I think that you misunderstood my post. I wrote about how dentists are able to control their environment, coworkers, and "lunch break" type things. And how it is more likely that a physician will not be able to have control over those variables.

 

[michaelrack]

I think that you misunderstood my post. I wrote about how dentists are able to control their environment, coworkers, and "lunch break" type things. And how it is more likely that a physician will not be able to have control over those variables.

sorry, was going to quickly through the posts.

 

[heretics]

I won't let my children go into medicine. I don't want them to be abused and overworked and nearly die falling asleep at the wheel postcall, all in the name of a future taking call at 6 hospitals in the middle of nowhere because the market is tight. I want them to keep climbing the happy ladder of success we all were on in high school and college, with hard work and intelligence rewarded with praise in fields like law, business, and engineering. I don't want them to look at nurses reading magazines and making triple their income and feel dejected. Medicine also carries the risk of--if you lose your job, you're little qualified to do anything else and have a black mark on you forever. Now can they go into nurse practitionering? Absolutely.

 

[lipomas]

I want them to keep climbing the happy ladder of success we all were on in high school and college, with hard work and intelligence rewarded with praise in fields like law, business, and engineering.

What? Have you talked to graduates of any of these fields? The unemployment rate is very high! And many are employed with ****ty jobs and the only reason they stick it out is the hope that they will qualify for a better one or get a promotion. it's all well and good to tell your children to avoid medicine as a career, there are reasons why people would. But don't idealize other fields to make your point. I would wager that the bottom 25% of graduates in these three fields (in terms of salary, debt, etc) are doing far worse than those in the bottom 25% of medical school grads. Medicine is a terrible idea if you're doing it for the money but it has always been a terrible idea if you're doing it for the money.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys serously think that anyone with the intelligence to get into med school could just walk onto Wall Street and be making 7 figures in a few years, easy. It doesn't work like that!

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Sometimes I wonder if you guys serously think that anyone with the intelligence to get into med school could just walk onto Wall Street and be making 7 figures in a few years, easy. It doesn't work like that!

People here do think that. I always find it very amusing too.

They also think that *every* JD is on partnership track at a BigLaw firm, and *every* finance guy is pulling in multiple millions at a hedge fund while snorting lines of coke off of Ukrainian models' torsos.

They don't realize there's a massive, massive number of "also-rans" in law & finance that simply don't exist in medicine.

 

[lipomas]

They don't realize there's a massive, massive number of "also-rans" in law & finance that simply don't exist in medicine.

I believe law school grads are now accepting "future" positions at law firms. That is, they interview now for a job but there isn't a spot now but there will be in 2 years, so they are accepted in advance. If that was happening in medicine the frantic posting on SDN would become unmanageable.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

at the top firms they're being delayed by one-two years. Meaning they had offers from when they were summer associates predating the financial crisis, but the firm is buying them out of their contract, as it were. They're being paid nicely (I think around $60K) to do nothing for a year.

That, of course, is <1% of new JD grads. The average salary out of law school is $35,000, and 10 years later the average JD makes $55K. "Average," of course, means that roughly half are at or below that mark.

Can you imagine what would be said on sdn in that situation? After all, we only have one more year of education (and educational debt) than they.

 

[lipomas]

I can't believe they are getting paid. Although I guess the firms have to do something.

The discrepancy in law grad pay is always astounding to me. The average JD ten years out makes $55k, but that's probably because 40-50% make less than $40k, and 10% are making over $500k.

 

[MedicalDoctorV]

Its not worth it. Now that I have practiced Anesthesiology for 1.5 yrs, I can tell you its not worth it.

Worst part of it all: not many people respect you. Worse. Many despise you for "making a lot of money". Good luck with dentistry. If you don't get in, don't worry. Atleast you won't have negative net worth until your mid to late 30s.

Oh and call $ucks!!! It $ucks big time. Without it, you are not gonna make much money. so with lots of loans, you will be working your ***** off for a very long time. And god forbid you get sued anytime in this equation from med school to private practice.

What job don't you work your ass off in? You think garbage-men like waking up at 3am and getting paid $20K. You think it's fun for members of the armed forces to leave their families and fight some crap war with a sinking feeling in their hearts they might not come back - and if they do come back "alive" they have to deal with the horrible VA care being delivered by *****holes who want to clock out at 4pm everyday and not do their jobs? Even our friends in finance that are living the so called high-life with their $100K bonuses are in the office for 14-18 hours a day.

Work is work. It's hard. True there are a few fields in medicine that are considered lifestyle specialties and there are a few people in the world that are lucky enough to mooch off their ancestral fortunes - but most people in the world are just trying to scrounge together a few bucks to pay the bills and get a meal.

I don't absolutely love my job, and sure there are days when I want to strangle my patients - but all in all medicine is a great career. Do your God-damn job and by the very virtue of the work you've helped someone at the end of the day.

I'm actually leaving ophtho for internal med - and everyone and their mother has told me i'm out of my mind. Bottom line is - if you don't do what you love, you'll be miserable.

I would recommend the OP not worry about prestige. The only people that seem to care are people in OTHER FIELDS of medicine. The patient thinks THEIR doctor is the most important person in the room - be it the CT surgeon who fixes their valve or the ophthalmologist who takes out their cataract or their Family Medicine doc that actually seems to care about their complex medical history.

 

[anonymousername]

I officially switched to dentistry and planned my schedule so that there's no way that I could take the MCAT by the time I apply. But I'm bored with this whole dentistry thing, it gives me no real motivation to work.

When I was pre-med, I had a goal...a purpose and I thrived on it and did well in school. But as a pre-dent I see kids getting into dental school with sub 3.0 GPA's and ridiculously low stats giving advice on "what it takes to get into dental school". Most of them are former pre-meds but almost all of them switched because they had no hope for MD/DO.

I've lost my motivation and I quite honestly don't give a f*ck about teeth. I don't want to put in fillings for the rest of my life and it's not realistic for me to think that I'll match into a dental residency (only 5-10% of dental students do). And again, I could give less of a **** about being a "small time business owner", I want to obtain a skill in professional school and utilize it to my advantage. I don't want to open up shop and grovel for patients.

F*ck.

 

[jman128]

I officially switched to dentistry and planned my schedule so that there's no way that I could take the MCAT by the time I apply. But I'm bored with this whole dentistry thing, it gives me no real motivation to work.

When I was pre-med, I had a goal...a purpose and I thrived on it and did well in school. But as a pre-dent I see kids getting into dental school with sub 3.0 GPA's and ridiculously low stats giving advice on "what it takes to get into dental school". Most of them are former pre-meds but almost all of them switched because they had no hope for MD/DO.

I've lost my motivation and I quite honestly don't give a f*ck about teeth. I don't want to put in fillings for the rest of my life and it's not realistic for me to think that I'll match into a dental residency (only 5-10% of dental students do). And again, I could give less of a **** about being a "small time business owner", I want to obtain a skill in professional school and utilize it to my advantage. I don't want to open up shop and grovel for patients.

F*ck.

So does this mean you want to go to med school again? Ive seen your posts and you dont seem enthusiastic about either. I have been in a similar dilemma. At first I was pre-med, but after doing a lot of research, med school just didn't seem like a good fit in terms of lifestyle and other things. There seems to be a ton of negativity surrounding it and the things I know now about it turned me off. If the things I hear give me a bad vibe now, I can't imagine what it will be like actually experiencing them. I have more respect for doctors.

I was heading towards dental too because of mostly lifestyle and monetary reasons. Then I thought about what I would be doing every day. Id basically be doing surgery all day in a small area hunched over. I don't really mind, teeth but I'm not really interested in oral health.

So basically I am a junior biomedical major who will graduate soon with no idea what to do because every career option doesn't excite me. *sigh*

 

[Slack3r]

So does this mean you want to go to med school again? Ive seen your posts and you dont seem enthusiastic about either. I have been in a similar dilemma. At first I was pre-med, but after doing a lot of research, med school just didn't seem like a good fit in terms of lifestyle and other things. There seems to be a ton of negativity surrounding it and the things I know now about it turned me off. If the things I hear give me a bad vibe now, I can't imagine what it will be like actually experiencing them. I have more respect for doctors.

I was heading towards dental too because of mostly lifestyle and monetary reasons. Then I thought about what I would be doing every day. Id basically be doing surgery all day in a small area hunched over. I don't really mind, teeth but I'm not really interested in oral health.

So basically I am a junior biomedical major who will graduate soon with no idea what to do because every career option doesn't excite me. *sigh*

Welcome to my life. Except I'm a senior Physiology major without any work experience outside minimum wage food service jobs. I don't want to waste my life in med school, getting my first job at 30-something only to have a pager on my hip for the rest of my career. Similarly, I don't really want to fill cavities and laud the benefits of flossing all day either. I guess I could do OMS, but that residency is just as long, and ortho is saturated in every city larger than 1million people. Sigh, what to do...what to do...

 

[GMed]

at the top firms they're being delayed by one-two years. Meaning they had offers from when they were summer associates predating the financial crisis, but the firm is buying them out of their contract, as it were. They're being paid nicely (I think around $60K) to do nothing for a year.

That, of course, is <1% of new JD grads. The average salary out of law school is $35,000, and 10 years later the average JD makes $55K. "Average," of course, means that roughly half are at or below that mark.

Can you imagine what would be said on sdn in that situation? After all, we only have one more year of education (and educational debt) than they.

So true. I have several friends who are in law school and are about to graduate and are freaking out because the job market is dismal. Unless you are from a top 10 school with connections, that big money payment isn't going to come anytime soon. Back in the day if you were from a top 10 law school, you were essentially guaranteed a high moneymaking firm, but now many of those positions don't exist anymore because of the economy and they instead are taking more medium level positions which then just screws it up for anyone not in a top 10 school.

I have many friends in business and most of them are making less than 100,000 after several years of work. I have one friend who makes 300,000+ in investment banking, works 80 hours a week and is so disillusioned and hates his job that he has now quit after 5 years to take a 1 year break. Another friend is a vice president at a small biotech firm and is making 100,000+, but working again 80 hours a week, though she does love her job.

I truly think that the people who posts how great being a lawyer is or how great it is to be in business are people would be the same people complaining how bad business is or being a lawyer is if they were in that profession. Grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[anonymousername]

Ive seen your posts and you dont seem enthusiastic about either.

bingo

Both careers seem bearable.....but I don't want bearable, I want desirable. I want something that I'm passionate about while not consuming my entire life.

Medicine seems interesting and exciting but too much so. It seems like because there is so much going on and so much to do, most physicians drift along just waiting for retirement, the next vacation, post-call, the last patient of the day...i don't want to risk being like that.

Dentistry is on the other side of the spectrum, the lifestyle was extremely appealing when I was making the transition but now...I don't see myself working inside a mouth and keeping my business afloat for the rest of my career. It's like the kid brother of medicine...less interesting, doesn't really know as much, and has a huge inferiority complex.

I'm tired of this...

 

[cartoondoc]

There were times when I felt like the OP during med school and residency. But I think if you have serious doubts about going to med school before even applying, it's a huge mistake to go. If you're working your ass off and getting treated like **** for a career you don't even want, then you're really going to be miserable.

That said, I'm a physiatrist, and my residency has been CHILL. I can't remember the last time I've been at work before 8AM.

 

[jman128]

bingo

Both careers seem bearable.....but I don't want bearable, I want desirable. I want something that I'm passionate about while not consuming my entire life.

Medicine seems interesting and exciting but too much so. It seems like because there is so much going on and so much to do, most physicians drift along just waiting for retirement, the next vacation, post-call, the last patient of the day...i don't want to risk being like that.

Dentistry is on the other side of the spectrum, the lifestyle was extremely appealing when I was making the transition but now...I don't see myself working inside a mouth and keeping my business afloat for the rest of my career. It's like the kid brother of medicine...less interesting, doesn't really know as much, and has a huge inferiority complex.

I'm tired of this...

Wow. We think exactly alike. I have the same exact feelings as you do. I agree with you that medicine seems "heavy". Its not a job you can just forget about when you come home. Nor is it a job where you can just take your ball and leave. You are dealing with people's lives and you have tons of debt.

I feel strange because its everyone's goal to get a certain career. My career isn't my priority in life however everyone in my life is convincing me otherwise. I have a lot of pressure to "just pick something" and I have even went to career services and they didn't help either. They just showed me what I can do but nothing on the page made me go "Wow! I really want to do that!" The fact that people define themselves and introduce themselves to other people by their career is just weird to me.

Id rather not, but I feel like I have to blame advisers and society for not truly informing us about what it means to be a doctor or dentist or about other fields in health care.

There are so many ignorant pre-meds I know who seem to have no clue what they are getting themselves into, but because I did my research and have been on SDN a lot, I know more than they do sadly.

 

[TB1]

I officially switched to dentistry and planned my schedule so that there's no way that I could take the MCAT by the time I apply. But I'm bored with this whole dentistry thing, it gives me no real motivation to work.

When I was pre-med, I had a goal...a purpose and I thrived on it and did well in school. But as a pre-dent I see kids getting into dental school with sub 3.0 GPA's and ridiculously low stats giving advice on "what it takes to get into dental school". Most of them are former pre-meds but almost all of them switched because they had no hope for MD/DO.

I've lost my motivation and I quite honestly don't give a f*ck about teeth. I don't want to put in fillings for the rest of my life and it's not realistic for me to think that I'll match into a dental residency (only 5-10% of dental students do). And again, I could give less of a **** about being a "small time business owner", I want to obtain a skill in professional school and utilize it to my advantage. I don't want to open up shop and grovel for patients.

F*ck.

Anyone getting into dental school with a sub-3.0 either has an amazing life story or is the result of schools looking for "diversity," I've seen both, but that will be ending soon I think, stats are shooting up every year nowadays. (Don't kid yourself, there are no white frat boy *******es squeezing into dental school with ****ty stats)

Welcome to my life. Except I'm a senior Physiology major without any work experience outside minimum wage food service jobs. I don't want to waste my life in med school, getting my first job at 30-something only to have a pager on my hip for the rest of my career. Similarly, I don't really want to fill cavities and laud the benefits of flossing all day either. I guess I could do OMS, but that residency is just as long, and ortho is saturated in every city larger than 1million people. Sigh, what to do...what to do...

Don't go to dental school if you don't want to be a general dentist.

So does this mean you want to go to med school again? Ive seen your posts and you dont seem enthusiastic about either. I have been in a similar dilemma. At first I was pre-med, but after doing a lot of research, med school just didn't seem like a good fit in terms of lifestyle and other things. There seems to be a ton of negativity surrounding it and the things I know now about it turned me off. If the things I hear give me a bad vibe now, I can't imagine what it will be like actually experiencing them. I have more respect for doctors.

I was heading towards dental too because of mostly lifestyle and monetary reasons. Then I thought about what I would be doing every day. Id basically be doing surgery all day in a small area hunched over. I don't really mind, teeth but I'm not really interested in oral health.

So basically I am a junior biomedical major who will graduate soon with no idea what to do because every career option doesn't excite me. *sigh*

I think you need to look at what you would be doing everyday as a physician, I think you will find that they have certain "bread and butter" procedures that they are doing everyday, and will you like them any better?

Wow. We think exactly alike. I have the same exact feelings as you do. I agree with you that medicine seems "heavy". Its not a job you can just forget about when you come home. Nor is it a job where you can just take your ball and leave. You are dealing with people's lives and you have tons of debt.

I feel strange because its everyone's goal to get a certain career. My career isn't my priority in life however everyone in my life is convincing me otherwise. I have a lot of pressure to "just pick something" and I have even went to career services and they didn't help either. They just showed me what I can do but nothing on the page made me go "Wow! I really want to do that!" The fact that people define themselves and introduce themselves to other people by their career is just weird to me.

Id rather not, but I feel like I have to blame advisers and society for not truly informing us about what it means to be a doctor or dentist or about other fields in health care.

There are so many ignorant pre-meds I know who seem to have no clue what they are getting themselves into, but because I did my research and have been on SDN a lot, I know more than they do sadly.

Yep, I think I know more about med school and residency than anyone not in med school or residency. I have lurked on every forum on sdn for 2 years, always looking and reading.

Anyways,
here's the deal you three, I have already lived through this exact situation you seem to all be in. I was pre-med from the start, really interested in it, shadowed, the whole deal.

I always felt like I wanted to accomplish something big, I didn't want to be just another paper pusher in some office.

Leading up to applying for med school, I started to have a lot of doubts: hours, length of training, dealing with patients, liability, debt, etc. I started looking into dentistry more, and while it isn't the perfect job (there is no perfect job, except for maybe swedish porn star, sorry to break it to anyone) it allowed me to do the things that I want to do.

It afforded me a flexible schedule, be my own boss, make good money, and would allow me the time to pursue other interests instead of being relegated to the on-call room for the 5 years following med school. Do I LOVE the work? No, but I find it interesting enough and I like the idea of immediate results in relieving pain or improving someone's happiness in a matter of minutes/hours.

The thing that finally sold me on dental school however, was one day when I realized, what if at this moment I was sitting in the middle of my first year of medical school, trying to rationalize my decision to choose med over dent. In the thick of the grind that is med school, combined with so many doubts about being there, I knew I wouldn't be able to continue medical school when I felt there was a much better option in dentistry.

And by the way, I wasn't a half assed pre-med who wasn't getting in anyway, I had the grades and MCAT to get into med school easily (M.D. or D.O.)

Medicine is a great career for the right people, but we tend to idealize everything and it blinded me from some of the realizations that you will come to if you really aren't into medicine 100%. Hopefully those realizations come through before it's too late and your a quarter of a million in debt.

I would recommend anyone in your situations to read up on dentistry more and realize it isn't all drill and fill, there's actually some cool stuff in there. I think many people look at medicine as new and exciting everyday (and that could be true in the ED, although I don't know if I would like that brand of excitement) and dentistry as boring and repetitive, but remember, every single job on this earth has it's "bread and butter" (I use that phrase because my advisor was an oncologist and I think she knows what she's talking about) that you will be doing nearly every day, whether that's as a dentist, a radiologist, or a truck driver.

Specifically I think OP (anon) you need to really try to see yourself in the reality of medicine, not the idealized version, as if you were living it every single day. It's a grind and you have to honestly answer if you can handle that with some small bit of happiness. Unfortunately with the way healthcare is in this country, it's probably going to get much worse before it gets better (if it does). If you're not gonna be happy in that reality, unfortunately there is nothing you can do to change it, and you're just gonna have to make a choice one way or the other.

Anyways, I know this is a resident forum but I'm just trying to throw in my 2 cents from someone who has already experienced what you guys are going through now. I got into quite possibly the best dental school in the country as far as I'm concerned, and I couldn't be happier.

Feel free to fire any questions or comments at me...

 

[eddie13231]

I always laugh when people think being in med school is a "waste" of your life. What a joke you are learning all this sh** so you can save someone's life or greatly improve their quality of life. If you think med school sucks before you even apply then you will want to quit the first 2 months.

Med school is what you make of it. Yes it has sucked but I have also had some great moments in life. Don't decide the rest of your career based on message boards. Go out and talk to some real MD's and shadow and decide for yourself based on how you feel not someone with a chip on their shoulder posting to an message board. (most people come here to vent anyway)

You have anti-med tunnel vision--looking at all the bad without the good like hours, debt, difficultly of education, etc. Try and look at the positives and if they are worth it to you.

 

[jman128]

Well by "waste of life" we mean, dedicating your life to your studies and your career.

Its hard for us as undergrads to picture ourselves caught up in books and studying for the majority of the day, or spending their entire day or more at a hospital.

Theres more to life than your job, and some people don't really think about that while we do.

 

[Acherona]

what are you going to do with your life, go home and watch 5 hours of TV like the average american?

one good thing about medicine is the specialties are vastly different in terms of day to day activity and i think most personality types can find something that suits them. the average day of a pathologist involves a completely different skill set than let's say that of a neurosurgeon or rad oncologist. med school and the first few years of residency are probably pretty similar but after that things diverge substantially so it's important to keep a broad view of your life. personally i had very little clue about what medicine really involved until third year of med school. i went to med school with sort of a vague idea that i liked science/biology but didn't want to do a phd and be stuck on an academic track with poor job/income prospects. i did not expect to like treating patients but in the end i found clinical medicine to be much more interesting and challenging than i expected. the hours in residency do suck and you won't make any money until your youth is over but then most people don't. there are plenty of doctors out there who don't take their work home with them and have nice lives outside of the hospital even in primary care.