Are U.S IMGs doomed with the new med schools expanding?

[billydoc]

What do you guys think? There are quite a few new D.O schools either already opened or are on the way. Some allo one are in the works as well. FP, IM, Psych, Peds have traditionally been good to FMGs, and U.S IMGs. What are your predictions about residency availability for IMGs 4-5 years down the road? With all this talk about aging America, and the shortage of docs, but the door seemingly getting slamed on IMGs I don't know which way to turn. Let the crystal ball roll....

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[awdc]

It all depends if more residency positions will open up. If there is a shortage of physicians, it won't be solved just by increasing U.S. med students since the real output of physicians comes after residency or fellowship. Without an increase in residency positions, U.S. medical graduates will just displace IMG's in the pool of residents and there will be no net increase in number of physicians.

 

[billydoc]

It all depends if more residency positions will open up. If there is a shortage of physicians, it won't be solved just by increasing U.S. med students since the real output of physicians comes after residency or fellowship. Without an increase in residency positions, U.S. medical graduates will just displace IMG's in the pool of residents and there will be no net increase in number of physicians.

Thanks! That was my point exactly. I guess I should've rephrase it. I'm older and going to Carib now vs retakig some old prereqs, and taking MCAT which will thraw me back by another 1-2 years. I'm still leaning towards trying D.O. But I'm pretty sure of what I want to do. Got lots of prior clinical experience, and if I was graduating now Carib would be fine, but...as you've said it new AMGs could displace IMGs, and being older is already a challenge. Anyways, just thinking outloud, hope to get some expert opinions.

Thanks

 

[Faebinder]

Don't kid yourself.. there is no shortage of physicians... there is a shortage of physicians willing to work for $120k a year when a pharmacists working 6 days a week makes over $200k (real life example, yes they get double pay for working weekends/graveyards).

Going the IMG route used to be a good idea... now with residency numbers the same (or barely increaing such as Ped or even decreasing such as FM) then the increase in american grads will displace IMGs.

The IMG and FMG numbers have been steadily increasing as well. So more of that competition.

One thing is clear.... the number of physicians practicing will always depend on the number of residency positions and that is controlled by ACGME.

 

[lateness]

Don't kid yourself.. there is no shortage of physicians... there is a shortage of physicians willing to work for $120k a year when a pharmacists working 6 days a week makes over $200k (real life example, yes they get double pay for working weekends/graveyards).
nd that is controlled by ACGME.

WHat! are you serious. over 200K. dam. thats crazy,

 

[Faebinder]

WHat! are you serious. over 200K. dam. thats crazy,

You do the calculation... 50 dollars an hour... weekend/graveyard her case gets double... 100 dollars per hour... (2 X 12 hour shifts over the weekend and the rest regular hours...) It piles up. OF course she is working her butt off.. but so do a lot of doctors for a lot less.

 

[billydoc]

You do the calculation... 50 dollars an hour... weekend/graveyard her case gets double... 100 dollars per hour... (2 X 12 hour shifts over the weekend and the rest regular hours...) It piles up. OF course she is working her butt off.. but so do a lot of doctors for a lot less.

Yeah I know. There was one guy with me at ROSS, who is a R.Ph. He also said that the money was quite good. I'm an RN and a Licensed Acupuncturist. So $120k is not something to jump for joy.Though I'm in NYC, i don't think I could pull the same in other areas, except for may be L.A and Miami. But been there done that. But just like that pharmacist guy the itch to be a doc is always there for me. For me going to medicine, especially for the FP is not about money. I want a different scope of practice, and just practice on a different level alltogether. But...if FP is going to get tight just like the competative fields are then going an IMG route is an unnecessary risk.
But what is all this talk about doctors shortage? I know there is a nursing shortage, but it's there for the same reasons basically: too many hours for non-compatetive rates, or benefits that suck, or good money, but high patient ratio, and thus huge potential for liability.

So do i hear the board saying :IMG is a bad idea, even for FP and IM?

Thanks

 

[awdc]

Don't kid yourself.. there is no shortage of physicians... there is a shortage of physicians willing to work for $120k a year when a pharmacists working 6 days a week makes over $200k (real life example, yes they get double pay for working weekends/graveyards).

Going the IMG route used to be a good idea... now with residency numbers the same (or barely increaing such as Ped or even decreasing such as FM) then the increase in american grads will displace IMGs.

The IMG and FMG numbers have been steadily increasing as well. So more of that competition.

One thing is clear.... the number of physicians practicing will always depend on the number of residency positions and that is controlled by ACGME.

Don't kid yourself either. the AAMC seems to think there will be huge shortage in twenty years if things don't change soon. In reality no one has the crystal ball. In the 90's they thought there was going to be an excess and that hasn't happened. The federal government then slashed funding for a ton of residency positions. And if current salaries and headhunter data are any indication, there are indications of growing shortages. In any case... it's all still fortune telling to me.

 

[Faebinder]

Don't kid yourself either. the AAMC seems to think there will be huge shortage in twenty years if things don't change soon. In reality no one has the crystal ball. In the 90's they thought there was going to be an excess and that hasn't happened. The federal government then slashed funding for a ton of residency positions. And if current salaries and headhunter data are any indication, there are indications of growing shortages. In any case... it's all still fortune telling to me.

Agreed... but again... doc shortage is all talk... don't bank on it and as far as I see it... it doesn't exist at present... there is a shortage of docs who will do it for $120k a year... that is all.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

I doubt the FP IM distribution will change much. We need primary care. The more, the merrier.

 

[lateness]

You do the calculation... 50 dollars an hour... weekend/graveyard her case gets double... 100 dollars per hour... (2 X 12 hour shifts over the weekend and the rest regular hours...) It piles up. OF course she is working her butt off.. but so do a lot of doctors for a lot less.

yes but thats the thing. we work our butts off, and so if we work, extra should get double the money, but it doesnt always happen

 

[Faebinder]

yes but thats the thing. we work our butts off, and so if we work, extra should get double the money, but it doesnt always happen

Hey, their careers are a lot more in control of their pay than we are... we cant even unionize or agree on stopping insurance from jacking us.

 

[billydoc]

I doubt the FP IM distribution will change much. We need primary care. The more, the merrier.

From what I hear medicare is looking to cut some residency spots in primary care, b/c they go unfilled year after year. That's the basis for my fear going an IMG route again. I was at ROSS about 3 years ago, but then got sick. Now I'm (hopefully) comming back. D.O seems well within the reach, but takes longer to get in. Carib is wide open for me including the reputable schools, but I have that bad feeling about not being able to get a good residency. may be I'm overreacting. But I keep in touch with my ROSS buddies who are no interviewing, and hope to match this year. Just about everyone says don't go IMG now. it's a sinking ship So, even though I'm well into the 4th decade in this World, I'm ruling on the side of caution, and want to get in D.O. All I want is neurology, psych, FM, IM or if I'm really lucky PM&R. In the not such distant past those were quite easy to get at least for the U.S IMGs. Not so anymore, I gather

Any takers?

 

[awdc]

I'm a MS-IV from Ross and juding from my experience and those of my classmates, you should have little problem with matching into a decent psych, FM, or IM given decent boards scores and letters. Probably neuro, too. I think PM&R might be more competitive but I don't really know. Many of my friends/classmates have had interviews at pretty good places. FM still seems wide open and it doesn't look like there's lack of very good programs willing to interview Ross students. According to my classmates, there are still many programs offering prematch positions. Most decide not to prematch because they have their sights set on other programs. Naturally, if you have a red flag in your application, such as having repeated Step 1, you're going to want to do as well as you possibly can on Step 2 and beef up your application in some other way (awesome letters, research, extracurriculars, involvement in professional organizations, going to conferences, etc.).

I'm going for EM myself and have gone on more than enough interviews according to a couple program directors. Am I still worried about matching? Definitely yes. Just don't let the paranoia get the best of you. Going DO is a good option too. But as you've alluded to, it may be a longer road. Only you can decide if it's worth it.