Are the decks stacked against low income pre-med students with few resources?

[coffeeandcodeine]

By a dictionary definition yes, but they're not truly demonstrating grit. Overall, pre-meds are the furthest thing from being gritty.

Schools offer many programs to help disadvantaged applicants throughout the entire pre-med process with tutoring, mcat prep, advising, and summer programs that aren't offered to the general masses. There is enough help to level the playing field.

Lol this is hardly a broadly accurate statement. True disadvantage and poverty are deeply rooted, beginning in early childhood, and extremely difficult to overcome. Children of impoverished families lack access to mentoring, are rarely exposed to professional, non-blue collar jobs, and often are forced to drop out of school early to support their families. The odds that a truly disadvantaged child will even dare to dream of med school are so, so slim. No one is going to encourage them to pursue such a dream, when the immediate pressure of earning a living wage is so much more concerning. And for students who are URM and disadvantaged this is doubly true. Academic expectations for poor, URM students in the public school system are incredibly low -- these students will face stereotype threat and prejudice on a daily basis.

Meanwhile their well-off peers frequently have access to incredible tutors, mentors in academics and medicine, and exposure to a wide range of careers from an early age. The expectations from them are high from an early age -- their parents and teachers expect them to perform at a high level academically, and go on to have a professional career. Not to mention, these advantaged students are free from the burden of shouldering their entire family's financial future. This means they can delay earning money and take on risk and debt in their 20s to pursue higher education.

So no, a few extra resources in college, some scholarship money, and free prep courses are not going to make up for an entire lifetime of socioeconomic disadvantage. And grit is exactly the word I would use to describe pre-meds who, in the face of this type of adversity, succeed against all odds.

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[DokterMom]

As has been said -- yeah, lower SES applicants have a harder time at every step of the long, long process. You will have to work harder and more importantly, work smarter. Think ahead, investigate and locate resources, and plan your strategy. If it takes you longer, it takes you longer. The point is to get there --

For your undergrad -- Look at state universities, but ALSO at well-funded private schools. Many Ivy League (and similar caliber) schools have need blind admissions and will guarantee to meet a student's demonstrated financial need. In other words, if you have the academic chops to get into Harvard, Harvard guarantees to find a way to make it economically feasible for you. Don't assume -- investigate. Again, if it takes you an extra year, so what -- it's freaking Harvard! And dig into financial aid opportunities as well.

During Undergrad -- so starting now. You're economically disadvantaged. Fact of life. That does bring with it certain unavoidable disadvantages. BUT - There are also a few advantages, and you need to make the most of these. We like to believe we live in a meritocracy and that it's the American way to favor the 'bootstraps' applicant. Plus liberal guilt -- If you can show (through your actions) that helping you up the socioeconomic ladder will benefit other low-income or otherwise disadvantaged people, that will give you a meaningful edge. Use this to your advantage. Gear your volunteering towards low-SES populations -- food banks, homeless shelters, minority or immigrant groups, HIV or addiction clinics. Stay OUT of the affluent suburban hospitals as it will paint you as someone who wants to escape poverty rather than alleviate it. I know time is scarce, but start NOW and make up in duration and consistency what you may not be able to give in quantity.

Also in undergrad - If you need to stretch it out, do that. You will need top grades, and if keeping your grades up means taking fewer credits or working fewer hours or taking out more loans -- decide on a strategy and execute accordingly. There is a limit to what you can humanly do, and a strong GPA is simply a necessity. Prioritize that accordingly.

A strong MCAT is also a necessity. Give yourself enough time to succeed and research self-study strategies here on SDN. There are some great threads about MCAT preparation and not all successful strategies involve spending lots of money.

Good luck to you --

 

[laxbrah20]

Lol this is hardly a broadly accurate statement. True disadvantage and poverty are deeply rooted, beginning in early childhood, and extremely difficult to overcome. Children of impoverished families lack access to mentoring, are rarely exposed to professional, non-blue collar jobs, and often are forced to drop out of school early to support their families. The odds that a truly disadvantaged child will even dare to dream of med school are so, so slim. No one is going to encourage them to pursue such a dream, when the immediate pressure of earning a living wage is so much more concerning. And for students who are URM and disadvantaged this is doubly true. Academic expectations for poor, URM students in the public school system are incredibly low -- these students will face stereotype threat and prejudice on a daily basis.

Meanwhile their well-off peers frequently have access to incredible tutors, mentors in academics and medicine, and exposure to a wide range of careers from an early age. The expectations from them are high from an early age -- their parents and teachers expect them to perform at a high level academically, and go on to have a professional career. Not to mention, these advantaged students are free from the burden of shouldering their entire family's financial future. This means they can delay earning money and take on risk and debt in their 20s to pursue higher education.

So no, a few extra resources in college, some scholarship money, and free prep courses are not going to make up for an entire lifetime of socioeconomic disadvantage. And grit is exactly the word I would use to describe pre-meds who, in the face of this type of adversity, succeed against all odds.

You're grossly stereotyping both ends of the spectrum here.

 

[Neuro25_]

I don't count those years of my life between college and medical school as "lost." I had valuable experiences during them and I wouldn't trade them for anything. So many people seem to think they life is "on hold" during medical school and residency," but I don't agree. Your life looks different than your friends who are already in their careers but I had plenty of life while in training. I am of the personal opinion that no one should go directly from college to medical school (and residency shouldn't be anyone's first real job) but that is another discussion. Yes it's three years less of physicians salary for me but in the grand scheme of things I'd rather have those 3 years in my early 20s as they were. It is more difficult for those with financially disadvantaged backgrounds for sure, but I don't consider myself "screwed." Over a 30-40 year career the financial side is negligible, especially compared to the environment I was raised in.

This is largely a mindset thing IMHO. You can either bemoan the difficulties or acknowledge they exist and then take control of your life and appreciate the significance of overcoming the challenges you face.

Well said, I agree 100%.

 

[AcornFactory]

Take advantage of the opportunities available.

I received the fee waiver to apply to 15 schools, MCAT was free. Kaplan course heavily discounted due to financial aid EFOC score on fasfa. I applied to schcools close to my home to limit travel expenses during interviewing and while attending( and near family). I applied to schools that offer need based aid (in addition to merit based).

I got into med school, 100% of my tuition is covered.

Be thrifty and look for the resources available to you.

I'm also a non traditional student and during my gap year, I made more than both of my parents.

Wow, that's amazing! How did you manage to take the MCAT for free? I didn't know the Kaplan course offered a lower rate for low income students. Thanks for those tips!

 

[Neuro25_]

Wow, that's amazing! How did you manage to take the MCAT for free? I didn't know the Kaplan course offered a lower rate for low income students. Thanks for those tips!

Yes!! The FAP allowed me to take the MCAT at a discounted rate and my prehealth advising program at my undergrad covered the rest (I do not remember how much that was, I think like 150$)

Kaplan will deeply discount your course if you submit your FASFA information. (I paid 500$ for a 1300$ course)

I recommend all student who receive state financial aid apply to AMCAS FAP program, even if they deny you, you never know until your try.

I know that it is hard for us to work our way up, and at times it seems impossible, but it made me more resourceful and I am thankful for that!

Also, do not be ashamed of your background because you never know until you ask and so many people have gone to bat for me.

 

[AcornFactory]

I just wanted to echo what everyone else has said. The odds are stacked against those from a lower economic background. Med schools will give those from disadvantaged backgrounds a slight preference depending on the school but overall grades and MCAT matter most. Unfortunately sometimes grade and MCAT are effected by economic circumstances.

I personally worked in high school, all through undergrad, and in my 2 gap years with very few employment breaks. During junior and senior year I worked 24-32 hours per week and took full loads of difficult upper level classes. During my gap years I worked 50 hours a week while studying for the MCAT and did a DIY program with cheap resources like Khan Academy. My parents never gave me a dime, I grew up on welfare, paid for all my own cars, bills, apartments, etc. It's possible but not easy. You'll have to take out loans and apply for all financial aid you can: scholarships, grants, FAP program. If you can get the "full ride" type of scholarships that's ideal but I personally have only gotten the smaller ones. Good luck!

That's really inspiring. I love hearing that it can be done. It's also slightly terrifying though because I legitimately don't know if I have the memory retention to work nearly full time while taking a full load that includes things like O chem. I'm a dedicated study-session addict, but it definitely takes time for the information to take hold. Time which I might not have if I've got more than 12 sem. units and a full time job.

I've definitely been looking into every grant and scholarship option I can find. Trying to go the route if possible. Someone on here also mentioned the possibility of a work-study...which I somehow hadn't thought about. I absolutely need to check out the possibility for my undergrad!

 

[AcornFactory]

Huge thank you to everyone for the advice, resources, and encouragement. I feel way better about my chances after having read all of your comments. Now I'm off to go make a spreadsheet and a refreshed 5 year plan. Haha.

 

[Pepe18]

.

 

[7331poas]

Yes it's three years less of physicians salary for me but in the grand scheme of things I'd rather have those 3 years in my early 20s as they were.

See you just dont get it. The point is, poor people DONT GET A CHOICE. Thats the point. Sure, YOU might think that those aren't wasted years. But in a financial sense, they most definitely are. But, like I said, EVEN IF you disagree with that statement, you have only the illusion of choice. Because the poor lack the spending power necessary to keep up with the rich in life, and that is evident in medical school applications.

Hopefully you understand now. It really has nothing to do with what you think about non-trad versus trad. The point is that the poor dont have a choice either way. The fact that you "like" delaying your application is irrelevant.

 

[Pusheen]

Ok, so I applied as disadvantaged with no income but the money I made working part time in school. Here's how I managed, hopefully this will help anyone else in a similar situation.

Undergrad - got a scholarship and pell grant/other need based grants

MCAT - self studied with used books I got on ebay, plus a couple new ones from amazon. Mcat registration was $100 with FAP

Application -FAP covered almost all of my app and secondary fees, had to pay for a couple extra primaries

Travel for interviews -- about half a year before interview season, my SO and I both opened credit cards with large travel bonuses if you hit a certain amount( I used chase sapphire and venture). We put literally everything on them we could: rent, auto insurance, ect. Got about $1500 in travel points, which covered almost all my interview expenses.

 

[Pusheen]

As has been said -- yeah, lower SES applicants have a harder time at every step of the long, long process. You will have to work harder and more importantly, work smarter. Think ahead, investigate and locate resources, and plan your strategy. If it takes you longer, it takes you longer. The point is to get there --

For your undergrad -- Look at state universities, but ALSO at well-funded private schools. Many Ivy League (and similar caliber) schools have need blind admissions and will guarantee to meet a student's demonstrated financial need. In other words, if you have the academic chops to get into Harvard, Harvard guarantees to find a way to make it economically feasible for you. Don't assume -- investigate. Again, if it takes you an extra year, so what -- it's freaking Harvard! And dig into financial aid opportunities as well.

During Undergrad -- so starting now. You're economically disadvantaged. Fact of life. That does bring with it certain unavoidable disadvantages. BUT - There are also a few advantages, and you need to make the most of these. We like to believe we live in a meritocracy and that it's the American way to favor the 'bootstraps' applicant. Plus liberal guilt -- If you can show (through your actions) that helping you up the socioeconomic ladder will benefit other low-income or otherwise disadvantaged people, that will give you a meaningful edge. Use this to your advantage. Gear your volunteering towards low-SES populations -- food banks, homeless shelters, minority or immigrant groups, HIV or addiction clinics. Stay OUT of the affluent suburban hospitals as it will paint you as someone who wants to escape poverty rather than alleviate it. I know time is scarce, but start NOW and make up in duration and consistency what you may not be able to give in quantity.

Also in undergrad - If you need to stretch it out, do that. You will need top grades, and if keeping your grades up means taking fewer credits or working fewer hours or taking out more loans -- decide on a strategy and execute accordingly. There is a limit to what you can humanly do, and a strong GPA is simply a necessity. Prioritize that accordingly.

A strong MCAT is also a necessity. Give yourself enough time to succeed and research self-study strategies here on SDN. There are some great threads about MCAT preparation and not all successful strategies involve spending lots of money.

Good luck to you --

Oh, also wanted to 100% back up this amazing post! Especially the recommendations during undergrad. I did what doktermom is suggesting and it worked out great

 

[Save a life]

Just have to chime in and say something about the loans and not working idea. I went to a state school and even after have a Pell Grant pay most of tuition I took out federal loans. They covered the rest of tuition books and most of the time my rent. But I still had to work to have a car, food, cell phone, etc. Loans are great and thank God they're available but they don't necessarily pay for everything while in undergrad.

 

[LucidSplash]

See you just dont get it. The point is, poor people DONT GET A CHOICE. Thats the point. Sure, YOU might think that those aren't wasted years. But in a financial sense, they most definitely are. But, like I said, EVEN IF you disagree with that statement, you have only the illusion of choice. Because the poor lack the spending power necessary to keep up with the rich in life, and that is evident in medical school applications.

Hopefully you understand now. It really has nothing to do with what you think about non-trad versus trad. The point is that the poor dont have a choice either way. The fact that you "like" delaying your application is irrelevant.

Actually I think that the fact that there is lack of choice is irrelevant. I see your struggles and I acknowledge them because I lived them. I'm not disregarding how hard it is. But I think the point I'm making is not the same one you are chastising me for.

I don't ask for an equal playing field (in what leads up to medical admissions) because I'm not a socialist. I ask for the means to be able to work to get myself to where I want to be (socioeconomic mobility). My point wasn't that it wasn't an unequal playing field but that I don't consider myself "screwed" or consider the gap years lost years of my life, regardless of their necessity rather than being a true "choice."

I've done it. I'm near the end of my training but that isn't the finish line for me: it's a milestone that will change my life but the finish line is a life well lived after a career as a vascular surgeon.

At what point did this discussion become about whether or not life is fair? I thought it was more about how to overcome the obstacles in your path to achieve your goals. I participated here as the voice of someone that was in the OP's shoes and who has almost completed their training and achieved what the OP and other posters here are trying to achieve. The point I am trying to make is that this is achievable, not that it isn't unfair that we have to be more proactive and work at it more than a person with wealthy parents.

 

[bornunderatree]

The article that you've cited doesn't actually support the statement you've made. Medical schools do in fact acknowledge and reward applicants who demonstrate significant 'distance traveled' -- overcoming economic or other types of adversity. The fact that applicants who face such adversity have a greater likelihood of attrition doesn't mean that schools are less likely to accept these applicants, it simply indicates that schools may need to allocate more resources towards retaining these students. Overall, having a disadvantaged background will, at most schools, add to your application because achieving success with such a background demonstrates grit and a unique ability to overcome obstacles. In addition, students with such backgrounds offer a different perspective, and are often able to relate to disadvantage patient populations in a way that their more affluent peers may not.

It does actually. It comments on how few matriculants come from low socioeconomic backgrounds, and the few that do, have higher rates of drop out. In 2010. Seven years ago.

If the article did encourage admission committees to seek out those from poverty, do you think we would still be having this conversation today?

 

[Stagg737]

I just have to chime in and say fed loans don't always pay enough to survive living expenses of undergraduate. I had t


Just have to chime in and say something about the loans and not working idea. I went to a state school and even after have a Pell Grant pay most of tuition I took out federal loans. They covered the rest of tuition books and most of the time my rent. But I still had to work to have a car, food, cell phone, etc. Loans are great and thank God they're available but they don't necessarily pay for everything while in undergrad.

Out of curiosity how much was your tuition and expected COL? I've never heard of anyone who attended a state school who wasn't able to get everything (easily) covered with loans unless they had some underlying medical condition/other unusual cost.

 

[psychgirl95]

Just have to chime in and say something about the loans and not working idea. I went to a state school and even after have a Pell Grant pay most of tuition I took out federal loans. They covered the rest of tuition books and most of the time my rent. But I still had to work to have a car, food, cell phone, etc. Loans are great and thank God they're available but they don't necessarily pay for everything while in undergrad.

Same here. Although I have a 4.0 GPA, I usually don't meet the requirements for most scholarships, because I've had health issues that forced me to be a part-time student. (And working obviously hasn't been an option either.) For example, even with an EFC of 0, there is very little funding avaliable to students in my state. And I wasn't able to get a 4-year scholarship (although I met the academic requirements) because I was homeless during that part of my senior year in high school. I didn't have the money to apply to colleges, and my school (a state school) doesn't award scholarships to students who apply to the school after December 1st of their senior year. So yes, as you said, loans are great, but they definitely don't cover everything for all students. Also, everyone can't just get grants; the Pell Grant is wonderful, but it only covers about a third of my estimated COA, so I completely understand why some students have to work long hours just to make ends meet.