AOA crap etc

[radsappy]

I go to a top 20 med school and am getting demolished by my classmates during this M3 year (All P's).

Needless to say, to what levels do grades matter??? WashU for example ( I dont go there ) has an avg MCAT of 37 and still only 20% will get AOA. Will the people who get "passes" all year long suck as rads applicants cuz they couldn't cut it with the rest of their genius classmates?

I guess that leads to question 2: How much does your med school help or hurt you in this process? Thanks a bunch

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[peehdee]

I think you can be sure that people on here will tell you, three basic things:
1) Step 1 (above 230)
2) Honors in clinics
3) AOA
4) Honors in preclinics
5) Research

So there you have it. I think if you don't have most of those in, your chances are pretty slim. You'd have to have something outstanding to make up for lack of those things. I'm sure others on here can add additional comments. It just comes down to numbers. If there were more rad spots or there were less applicants than the number of spots you'd have no problem finding a place somewhere. Sorry for the harsh numbers. Its just like med school apps. Think about how you got in and how you know of people who would have been good physicians who didn't get in because they didn't have the 'numbers' or simply because there weren't enough spots.

I go to a top 20 med school and am getting demolished by my classmates during this M3 year (All P's).

Needless to say, to what levels do grades matter??? WashU for example ( I dont go there ) has an avg MCAT of 37 and still only 20% will get AOA. Will the people who get "passes" all year long suck as rads applicants cuz they couldn't cut it with the rest of their genius classmates?

I guess that leads to question 2: How much does your med school help or hurt you in this process? Thanks a bunch

 

[tigershark]

I didn't make AOA and ended up with a HP average during 3rd year, also went to a relatively crappy school by most people's standards. I ended up getting interviews at the majority of the "top tier" programs (BWH, MGH, Penn, Hopkins, Duke, etc.) I do however have an exceptional amount of publications, and high step scores.

My point is dont think you need to have a perfect app for a shot at the big names. My app is far from perfect but I compensated in other areas. I met lots of people on interviews who had excellent grades and no meaningful research.

The competitiveness of rads is way overblown, you dont have to be perfect.

 

[peehdee]

Hey tiger,

Congrats on your success.....

What do you think of BWH versus Penn.

If you don't wanna post here, you can send me a private message.

Thanks.

I didn't make AOA and ended up with a HP average during 3rd year, also went to a relatively crappy school by most people's standards. I ended up getting interviews at the majority of the "top tier" programs (BWH, MGH, Penn, Hopkins, Duke, etc.) I do however have an exceptional amount of publications, and high step scores.

My point is dont think you need to have a perfect app for a shot at the big names. My app is far from perfect but I compensated in other areas. I met lots of people on interviews who had excellent grades and no meaningful research.

The competitiveness of rads is way overblown, you dont have to be perfect.

 

[tigershark]

Hey tiger,

Congrats on your success.....

What do you think of BWH versus Penn.

If you don't wanna post here, you can send me a private message.

Thanks.

I think at that level it really comes down to how well you clicked with the residents and faculty and where you would rather live, your education is going to be equivalent.

The nature of the Penn interview weekend makes it seem a little more uptight and less laid back than Brigham. They say "If you're not interested in academics, you dont belong here", even though 80% of their grads are going into private practice. On top of that you have 80ish of the most competitive applicants sitting around trying to one up eachother discussing whether they want to go to MGH or UCSF.

I liked Brigham because even though it's Harvard, there's not much of the Harvard attitude you see a lot of at Mass General.

I dont think you could go wrong with either one.

 

[peehdee]

Do you think it was your step scores or high amount of publications that got you interviews at these top schools?

I think at that level it really comes down to how well you clicked with the residents and faculty and where you would rather live, your education is going to be equivalent.

The nature of the Penn interview weekend makes it seem a little more uptight and less laid back than Brigham. They say "If you're not interested in academics, you dont belong here", even though 80% of their grads are going into private practice. On top of that you have 80ish of the most competitive applicants sitting around trying to one up eachother discussing whether they want to go to MGH or UCSF.

I liked Brigham because even though it's Harvard, there's not much of the Harvard attitude you see a lot of at Mass General.

I dont think you could go wrong with either one.

 

[tigershark]

Do you think it was your step scores or high amount of publications that got you interviews at these top schools?

Well there's no way to know that but I would think it was the combination....from what I've seen it takes more than just a high board score to get those interviews.

 

[mudderphudder]

I am an MD/PhD student just getting back into my 3rd year classes. I am trying to gauge my competitiveness so that I can plan an externship at a school that I have a good chance of matching at. My board score was marginal, 231 and my research is in biochemistry/molecular biology with a good number of publications and presentations. Should I try and get in on a small research project in radiology in order to increase my competitiveness? Any advice from those out there who have gone through the process would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

 

[Skeptic]

Is mudderphudder a word you created to incorporate MD/PhD into? Anywho, I'm just a measely 3rd year who's very interested in the field of radiology and am stuck wondering if I'll be competitive enough when the time comes. However, hopefully I can help you out with your question a little bit. I have spoken to the PD of our program here (UCLA) and he mentioned that in stark contrast to all other fields, away electives aren't as helpful during the third and fourth years. The reason being that you can't really expect to contribute; i.e., you can't show up and say "hi, I'm the new fourth year sub-I...point me to the reading room and let me start dictating." Hence, he mentioned that don't expect to get great letters during this time. Rather, focus on doing research and/or electives in more work-intensive fields (medicine, surgery, etc) because too many rads electives may make you look lazy. Good luck to all of you. Hope none of you peeps are going to be like those at MGH trying to one up each other.

 

[peehdee]

MuDderPhuDder

PeehDee


anyone see a connection?

Is mudderphudder a word you created to incorporate MD/PhD into? Anywho, I'm just a measely 3rd year who's very interested in the field of radiology and am stuck wondering if I'll be competitive enough when the time comes. However, hopefully I can help you out with your question a little bit. I have spoken to the PD of our program here (UCLA) and he mentioned that in stark contrast to all other fields, away electives aren't as helpful during the third and fourth years. The reason being that you can't really expect to contribute; i.e., you can't show up and say "hi, I'm the new fourth year sub-I...point me to the reading room and let me start dictating." Hence, he mentioned that don't expect to get great letters during this time. Rather, focus on doing research and/or electives in more work-intensive fields (medicine, surgery, etc) because too many rads electives may make you look lazy. Good luck to all of you. Hope none of you peeps are going to be like those at MGH trying to one up each other.

 

[Skeptic]

dang....all you guys boasting around your post-graduate degrees. Anyone have a good one for G.E.D?

 

[Vince]

Thanks Skeptic for your input...that was good advice I think.

I had a program director from a very good program when I rotated tell me that he cares more about getting letters of rec from people who know you well, rather than a radiologist you shadowed for one month.

So, I think you sort of have to get one good letter from a radiologist if you can, but your other letters should be from people who know you very well and can vouch for your work ethic, character.

In case anyone is interested I got two letters from radiologists, one from an extremely well known radiologist who wrote a great letter (although I didn't get to see it) which was huge for me. The other radiology letter spoke well of my interest in the field and was just a great letter.

My third letter was from a surgeon at a program that I did some surgery/radiology research at (non-published), and did general surgery with him as a third year med student, as well as SICU during my fourth year.

Just my 2 cents...

I did happen to be in the AOA......American Osteopathic Assoc....heh heh.

Not the real "AOA", I know, but it was funny when I was asked during interviews.

Everyone who is applying this year, try to stay positive and keep your head up.

 

[Epithelioid]

I think at that level it really comes down to how well you clicked with the residents and faculty and where you would rather live, your education is going to be equivalent.

The nature of the Penn interview weekend makes it seem a little more uptight and less laid back than Brigham. They say "If you're not interested in academics, you dont belong here", even though 80% of their grads are going into private practice. On top of that you have 80ish of the most competitive applicants sitting around trying to one up eachother discussing whether they want to go to MGH or UCSF.

I liked Brigham because even though it's Harvard, there's not much of the Harvard attitude you see a lot of at Mass General.

I dont think you could go wrong with either one.

Any thoughts on NYU? Does it or will it soon compare to MGH/UCSF/BWH/Penn? What about Hopkins? From my very limited experience, it seems a little iconoclastic, with really odd residents vs. other rads programs.

 

[peehdee]

G.E.D.?
umm

geeeedeee?
lol

dang....all you guys boasting around your post-graduate degrees. Anyone have a good one for G.E.D?

 

[peehdee]

that's funny about the 'aoa' thing. did they actually ask you if you were 'aoa'? isn't that like asking someone during med school interview, 'did you graduate cum laude or summa'?

Thanks Skeptic for your input...that was good advice I think.

I had a program director from a very good program when I rotated tell me that he cares more about getting letters of rec from people who know you well, rather than a radiologist you shadowed for one month.

So, I think you sort of have to get one good letter from a radiologist if you can, but your other letters should be from people who know you very well and can vouch for your work ethic, character.

In case anyone is interested I got two letters from radiologists, one from an extremely well known radiologist who wrote a great letter (although I didn't get to see it) which was huge for me. The other radiology letter spoke well of my interest in the field and was just a great letter.

My third letter was from a surgeon at a program that I did some surgery/radiology research at (non-published), and did general surgery with him as a third year med student, as well as SICU during my fourth year.

Just my 2 cents...

I did happen to be in the AOA......American Osteopathic Assoc....heh heh.

Not the real "AOA", I know, but it was funny when I was asked during interviews.

Everyone who is applying this year, try to stay positive and keep your head up.

 

[abcxyz0123]

dang....all you guys boasting around your post-graduate degrees. Anyone have a good one for G.E.D?

good enough diploma

 

[peehdee]

lol @ seth.

but seriously nothing wrong with GED

good enough diploma

 

[radonc777]

AOA is awesome if you can put in on your Curriculum Vitae but we cannot always have what we want even though we all study very hard in med school. With some schools, AOA is voted on by extra-curricular points anyway so even if you got straight A's or High Honors in the basic science portion, your chances are not automatic for AOA.

Other med schools weight clinicals more so check with your advisor. In the end, the vying for AOA politics reminds me that though we all wish we were Valedictorian in high school but we still get to be doctors. Do your best...with or without AOA...and be good to your patients whatever your specialty!

 

[Long Dong]

Anywho, I'm just a measely 3rd year who's very interested in the field of radiology and am stuck wondering if I'll be competitive enough when the time comes.

I'm sure you could match into almost any specialty you want to. Me on the other hand I'm in the same position as the OP (all Ps for 3rd year). Man there is alot of smart people in our class who turned it up a notch for 3rd year, to bad I'm not one of them. And look at all these Mud Phuds up in here, this shiz is intimidating.

 

[Kluver_Bucy]

I'm sure you could match into almost any specialty you want to. Me on the other hand I'm in the same position as the OP (all Ps for 3rd year). Man there is alot of smart people in our class who turned it up a notch for 3rd year, to bad I'm not one of them. And look at all these Mud Phuds up in here, this shiz is intimidating.

You'll be fine, smart guy.

 

[BenHoganFan]

You'll be fine, smart guy.

Who is the woman on the Avatar? Damn!