Aegd

[DrSmiles12]

What's the low down on an AEGD for the ARMY? Aren't they supposed to be really good?

Anyone know some pro's and cons?

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[SoonerFan]

What's the low down on an AEGD for the ARMY? Aren't they supposed to be really good?

Anyone know some pro's and cons?

DrSmiles,

They are the best!! Why? Two main reasons:

1) The U.S. Army Dental Corps has the $ and Specialists to fully staff thier AEGD (AEGD-1yr.) and Comprehensive Dental Residency (AEGD-2yr.) with a Specialist in every field to train the Resident one on one. In my Comprehensive Dental Residency, I literally had a Specialist in every field sit down with me and assist me as I did this and that procedure!!! Civilian institutions can typically not afford this type of staffing (I have never heard of one that can, but maybe they are out there).

2) The patients do not pay for anything, therefore, the acceptance rate for proposed therapy (treatment) is near close to 100%. In a Residency if the patients can not pay for the treatment, then you the Resident do not get to learn b/c you do not get to do the procedure. The Army has a large advantage over civilian Residencies in this regard......

Sorry, I can not think of any Cons!! I really can not.....

*Also, the Army pays the Resident about 2.5 to 3 times the amount payed by civilian programs*

The truth for me is, I consider the full ride to Dental School by the Army the least rewarding thing the Army has done for me. The #1 thing that I have recieved from the Army was/is my Residency Training!!!!


SoonerFan

 

[DrSmiles12]

Thanks for the reply. That's exactly why I am joining the military. I want all that good experience! Is there any advantage to the 2 year? I would suppose that you get more exposure and that would be better.

 

[Focker2Fillings]

Was wondering on the AF side if people have heard of graduates not being accepted into AEGD. Basically, I'm wondering if it's competitive to get in or just competitive to get your first selection.

 

[SoonerFan]

Thanks for the reply. That's exactly why I am joining the military. I want all that good experience! Is there any advantage to the 2 year? I would suppose that you get more exposure and that would be better.

DrSmiles12,

To answer your question I am cutting and placing a relpy that I gave about the Comprehensive Dental Residency on another forum.

The Comprehensive Dental Residency (AEGD-2yr.) is aimed to make the Comprehensive Dental Officer a "sub-specialist" in every field of dentistry. This is considered a Specialty in the Federal Service (i.e. Government) and is paid as such. I really do feel like the residency did accomplish it's goal (sub-specialized) for me. In my practice I really only need to refer large OR types of cases. As a matter of fact, I am currently going through the process of getting OR privaledges at my new Post's Hospital b/c I am a Comprehensive Dental Officer (Board Certification is something the Hospital looks at heavily for OR privaledges). A Comp. Dental Officer can become Board Certified (not the same as liscensed). The AEGD (AEGD-1yr.) Program is also an excellant program but it's goals of training are different.

*In the Federal Services we call the Program's 1) Comprehensive Dental Residency and 2) AEGD. It is the ADA that has asked us to call them AEGD-2yr. and AEGD-1yr., but the programs are not out to achieve the same objective.* Meaning they are not simply the same program but one happens to be 1yr. and the other happens to be 2yrs, but they are two totally different programs. Now, b/c it's still in the arena of a general style of practice they share many of the same subjects.......Dentistry.



SoonerFan

 

[superman]

SoonerFan, where did you do your 2-year AEGD residency? It seems like you had a good experience with your program. I am a HPSP student about to apply for residencies and I am trying to get an idea about how the different sites (Tripler, Bragg, & Hood) differ in terms of experience. Thank you.

 

[SoonerFan]

SoonerFan, where did you do your 2-year AEGD residency? It seems like you had a good experience with your program. I am a HPSP student about to apply for residencies and I am trying to get an idea about how the different sites (Tripler, Bragg, & Hood) differ in terms of experience. Thank you.

superman,

I did my Comprehensive Dental Residency (AEGD-2) at Fort Hood from 2004-2006. The nice thing about Fort Hood's program is that there is no other residency and the Post has about 50,000 Soldiers. Therefore, there is ample referrals to the Residency and you (Resident) have to take the referrals and pose as the Specialist in what ever field they may be (The Mentor is always right there in a one on one style learning environment). This is a wonderful aspect to the learning process. Usually it is a hard case or something has been messed up and now you have to learn to fix it. This is one way the Residency teaches the Resident to be a sub-specialist in the major fields of dentistry!!

On another post you asked about Implants and the Comp. Residency. Well, here is the deal! As far as I know surgical placement of Implants is still not an official "requirment" of the program Myself and others are trying to change this. However, the OMFS and Perio Mentors will let you place them, at least they did in my Residency I also have placed them after my Residency as well.


SoonerFan

 

[superman]

Wow, thanks for the info!

I've always heard people talk down on Ft. Hood because of it's location but I could care less as long as I get a high quality experience! It's awesome that the 2-year AEGD is the only residency there and that it's such a big base. I've heard that Ft. Bragg has other residencies and that the 2-year AEGD residents weren't getting as much stuff to do...

Ft. Hood has been bumped up on my list of preferences.

 

[Aceofspades]

DrSmiles12,

To answer your question I am cutting and placing a relpy that I gave about the Comprehensive Dental Residency on another forum.

The Comprehensive Dental Residency (AEGD-2yr.) is aimed to make the Comprehensive Dental Officer a "sub-specialist" in every field of dentistry. This is considered a Specialty in the Federal Service (i.e. Government) and is paid as such. I really do feel like the residency did accomplish it's goal (sub-specialized) for me. In my practice I really only need to refer large OR types of cases. As a matter of fact, I am currently going through the process of getting OR privaledges at my new Post's Hospital b/c I am a Comprehensive Dental Officer (Board Certification is something the Hospital looks at heavily for OR privaledges). A Comp. Dental Officer can become Board Certified (not the same as liscensed). The AEGD (AEGD-1yr.) Program is also an excellant program but it's goals of training are different.

*In the Federal Services we call the Program's 1) Comprehensive Dental Residency and 2) AEGD. It is the ADA that has asked us to call them AEGD-2yr. and AEGD-1yr., but the programs are not out to achieve the same objective.* Meaning they are not simply the same program but one happens to be 1yr. and the other happens to be 2yrs, but they are two totally different programs. Now, b/c it's still in the arena of a general style of practice they share many of the same subjects.......Dentistry.



SoonerFan

You keep saying the goals of training are different, but how so? How is the goal of the 2yr program different from the 1yr program? Also, the 2yr might be recognized as a specialty in the military but what about the private sector? One last thing... considering that one could do a peds/endo/ortho/etc specialty in 2yrs, do you think the comprehensive aegd program is worth it in that light?

 

[SoonerFan]

You keep saying the goals of training are different, but how so? How is the goal of the 2yr program different from the 1yr program? Also, the 2yr might be recognized as a specialty in the military but what about the private sector? One last thing... considering that one could do a peds/endo/ortho/etc specialty in 2yrs, do you think the comprehensive aegd program is worth it in that light?

Aceofspades,

Very good questions!!! I will make a statement up front: My words are just that, my words and not necessarily the position of the U.S. Army or the ADA, AGD and the like. However, being involved with the Army Education process via being a Resident myself in the Comprehensive Program (AEGD-2) and then being an adjunct Mentor in an AEGD (AEGD-1) program and knowing the 2 Dental Officers who run the Army Dental Residencies very well, I feel like I have some insight that is close to reality. So, I will answer your questions to the best of my knowledge.

Over-Arching Goals of the two programs (Comp. Program & AEGD)

1) Comprehensive Program (AEGD-2): Aims to "produce" Dental Officers who are a specialist in that they are sub-specialized in every field. The idea is that a Comprehensive Dental Officer may take the place of a Specialist (in a specific field) if need be. I am currently functing as an Oral Surgeon for my clinic in that my practice is limited to Dento-Alveolar Surgery. I only do Periodontal Surgery and Oral Surgery. It happens to be that the clinic needs these two fields "filled" and I love doing them. I have a friend who did the Comp. Program with me and he is functioning as an Endodontist. However, most my friends who are Comp. Dental Officers have a wide scope of practice. A Comp. Dental Officer is expected to treat patients at the same standard the Specialist (in a specific field) would. If one makes the most of the Comp. Program one should feel very proficiant in every field of dentistry. However, I have noticed this is very hard to keep up with. We are expected to know the current and classic literature in what ever field we are practicing in. Having said that, the Comp. Program teaches the Resident the tools and background needed to keep up, but it takes a lot of time!! The Comp. Residency is very big in didactics (i.e. lecture, literature reading, and mock oral & written boards). In summery, the "product" of the Comprehensive Program is to be the embodiment of a Specialist in that we are typically held, in the Army, at the same standards as a Specialist in what ever field we are doing and therefore make treatment decisions based on sound procedures that are backed up by literature (if possible) and not by "what works well in our hands". (Now do not get me wrong, a person who has not done this Residency should practice at this standard also if that person does complex cases)

2) AEGD (AEGD-1) Aims to "produce" a general dentist who is advanced beyond his/her peers. The programs vary based on who the Residency Director is (Always a Comp. Dental Officer), but most of these programs are much lighter on the didactic portion and typically the Residents do minimal literature study. Usually, the classic literature is not studied too much. This is a very good program in that the Dental Officer still rotates with all the Specialist in a one on one syle of training. The Aim is to not create a Dental Officer who is sub-specialized in every field, but to create an advanced general dentist. In the Comp. Program the Mentors know that the Residenct probably will be practicing thier field and so they typically take responsibility to train the Comp. Resident to fullfill that mission. I am not trying to say a Mentor in the AEGD will hold back info. but they have only one year in the AEGD and with the Comp. Program they have 2-yrs which is 2X more time to create a program to train at a different level.

*Note: These are the programs goals and does not necessarily translate into a "product" which embodies these goals. Each dentist has to make the most of their program and their continued studies after the Residency. What I am saying is that you do not necessarily have to do one of these Residencies to be a great dentist. I have decided to take on the idea that I am suppose to be sub-specialized in every field and therefore I read literature in specific fields to keep up.*

Summery of difference: These programs are not like a 1/2 Marathon where the runner can simply do a half-marathon or can continue and do the whole Marathon. These two programs have a different style of curriculum from the get go. Remember though that both still teach the same field, Dentistry.

The Government considers the Comprehensive Dentist a Specialist, however, the ADA does not. So what do I get in private practice, I literally would have to refer very few cases and when I refer I should have some good knowledge of what the Specialist is going to do. The ball is/would be in my court!!

I did the Comprehensive Dental Residency to have controll over my practice. A Specialist is subject to my referral and if I, after the Residency, know how to do the case I will not refer. This means I could keep the patient in my practice. Now, if you would like to Specialize in one of the fields you mentioned which are still usually 2yrs as well, only you can make that call.

I have written a book and am now tired. Please forgive grammer & spelling errors for I am very tired!!


SoonerFan

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

1) Comprehensive Program (AEGD-2): Aims to "produce" Dental Officers who are a specialist in that they are sub-specialized in every field. The idea is that a Comprehensive Dental Officer may take the place of a Specialist (in a specific field) if need be.

This is funny. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match because much of what he said is true. But there is a mentality that the 2 year program makes you a specialist in everything. In private pracice it will basically get you a hug. If I were going to stay in the military I would do the 2 year for the 50K bonus, but if my plans were to get out, I'd do the one year and get on with your life. I did the one year and it was very good for me, endo retreats, complete bony impactions etc. One more thing about the 2 year (bravo) program, it makes you ripe for admin. duties. Nothing in the military is all roses.

 

[Aceofspades]

Thanks SoonerFan and HawkeyeDDS for your input, it was greatly appreciated.

I don't mean to turn this into a flame war but it seems to me like it all comes down to one question: Is a 2-yr AEGD dentist more skilled/competent than a 1-yr AEGD dentist? Some people say they are subspecialists in every field with the 2-yr, but what does that really mean?

Take 2 people who do not want to be career military dentists for instance...
Person A - 2-yr AEGD
Person B - 1-yr AEGD + 1 yr experience

Who a better, all-round general dentist? Is there anything A can do that B can't? Is there anything A is better at than B? Will A have a lower referral rate than B in private practice? If the answer is no to all of them then that does not speak well for the 2-yr program.

From what I understand that there might be the intangible advantage that A has over B. If A is considered a specialist in terms of the military, then they might give him/her more complicated cases and thus A would have better skills. Not because of the 2-yr AEGD program was better but because he/she was given more opportunities.

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

There's to many variables. It's like comparing dental schools. There are dipsticks that somehow manage to get degrees even though they probably shoudn't from every school.

The 2 year is definately an extra year of schooling. Some of the "bravos" are great dentists, others quite frankly can't find their butt with both hands.

Will you make more money on the outside with the 2 vs 1 year...probably not. Will you be able to do more complicated cases.....maybe, but is that better? I love referring "unprofitable" cases to the specialists. Just because I can do complete impactions doesn't mean that I should. How many Bravo's that get out purchase microscopes for molar endo retreatments? That could be considered below the standard of care for a specialist. Don't get caught up in the "specialist" thing. Anyway, Definately do one or the other, don't try and go through the military without doing the residency, but honestly unless you want to make the military a career and get the extra 50k I wouldn't do it. The military is what you make it. I work in an office with the endodontist, perio and pros. If I want to take on a challenging case, I've got all the free help I need right next door. infact the perio and prosthodontist were my mentors at my one year, we just happened to all end up in the same place.

 

[SoonerFan]

There's to many variables. It's like comparing dental schools. There are dipsticks that somehow manage to get degrees even though they probably shoudn't from every school.

The 2 year is definately an extra year of schooling. Some of the "bravos" are great dentists, others quite frankly can't find their butt with both hands.

Will you make more money on the outside with the 2 vs 1 year...probably not. Will you be able to do more complicated cases.....maybe, but is that better? I love referring "unprofitable" cases to the specialists. Just because I can do complete impactions doesn't mean that I should. How many Bravo's that get out purchase microscopes for molar endo retreatments? That could be considered below the standard of care for a specialist. Don't get caught up in the "specialist" thing. Anyway, Definately do one or the other, don't try and go through the military without doing the residency, but honestly unless you want to make the military a career and get the extra 50k I wouldn't do it. The military is what you make it. I work in an office with the endodontist, perio and pros. If I want to take on a challenging case, I've got all the free help I need right next door. infact the perio and prosthodontist were my mentors at my one year, we just happened to all end up in the same place.

Overall, I agree with HawkeyeDDS on his multiple posts after my very long post. I will say, however, that I do see and feel the benefits by being considered a Specialist in the government!! (not just more $) Yes, if you plan on getting out this makes no difference. Like HawkeyeDDS said if you plan on staying in it is a good course of action!! Also, the Comp. Program leads to Board Certification (different than having a license), which is what most of our physician pals have. This is an ultimate credential for GPs. However, not a must at all in private practice. I am at the Academy of General Dentistry in Orland, FL right now and this Board Certification thing is becoming big (bigger anyway)!!

I do want to make one point on the discussion about the person A vs. person B person. I can not speak for all the Mentors in the program, but I have heard some say that they have more time in the Comp. Program to train the resident up to the standards of their field. Remember the courses are not the same, it is not that the 2-yr. is simply 1 year longer. The intent is different and therefore the course work is different. Having said that our 1yr. programs are excellant!!


SoonerFan

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

That is true, the 2 year graduates get to go to the AGD or ADA meetings for their cont. ed all paid for, but we get to go to an army sponsored 1 week training instead. I'd much rather go to the AGD or ADA meetings.

If you feel that there is any chance of making the military a career, I would definately do the BRAVO program if you are sure you want to "just be a general dentist" (I hate it when people say that). Once you "specialize" you are locked in for I believe 5 years. For example if you really liked endo or OS you would need to complete your commitment to the military as a Bravo before you could choose another specialty. Lots to think about.

PS Sooner, did you know Ridpath?

 

[SoonerFan]

That is true, the 2 year graduates get to go to the AGD or ADA meetings for their cont. ed all paid for, but we get to go to an army sponsored 1 week training instead. I'd much rather go to the AGD or ADA meetings.

If you feel that there is any chance of making the military a career, I would definately do the BRAVO program if you are sure you want to "just be a general dentist" (I hate it when people say that). Once you "specialize" you are locked in for I believe 5 years. For example if you really liked endo or OS you would need to complete your commitment to the military as a Bravo before you could choose another specialty. Lots to think about.

PS Sooner, did you know Ridpath?

HawkeyeDDS,

From what I understand you are correct, it would be 5 years between Residency Programs. For those who do not know, the Army allows Docs to do two Residencies, however, you have to wait 5 years between them. The 5yr thing just lets the Army get their "money's worth" from what ever Specialtly you did prior to you doing another residency.

Dr. Ridpath was 1 yr behind me at The U. of Oklahoma COD!! Did you do the AEGD with him?



SoonerFan

 

[DrSmiles12]

I guess in my mind the 2 year program is going to have less time limitation and more benefits. Seems like that would be more advantageous... I don't really have a clue, but I guess I have plenty of time to figure it out!

 

[umkcdds]

Also, the Comp. Program leads to Board Certification (different than having a license), which is what most of our physician pals have. This is an ultimate credential for GPs. However, not a must at all in private practice.
SoonerFan

why is this the ultimate credential? what does it earn you?

outside of a bonus in the Army, it earns you nothing.....and outside of the Army, you don't have to do a "comprehensive" residency to earn it either.

Aceofspades,
I am currently functing as an Oral Surgeon for my clinic in that my practice is limited to Dento-Alveolar Surgery. In summery, the "product" of the Comprehensive Program is to be the embodiment of a Specialist in that we are typically held, in the Army, at the same standards as a Specialist in what ever field we are doing
SoonerFan

no, you are not functioning as an oral surgeon. you are functioning as an exodontist. big difference.

and in the (paraphrased) words of the ADA, every general dentists is held to the same standard as a specialist, if they perform a procedure that a specialist performs. it isn't just the "comprehensive" dentists.

But there is a mentality that the 2 year program makes you a specialist in everything. In private pracice it will basically get you a hug.

i'm glad to see someone else thinks this is as laughable as i do!! the "comprehensive" denists spend two years in general dentistry, and suddenly think they have all the skills of an oral surgeon, periodontist, endodontist and prosthodontists all combined!

 

[SoonerFan]

why is this the ultimate credential? what does it earn you?

outside of a bonus in the Army, it earns you nothing.....and outside of the Army, you don't have to do a "comprehensive" residency to earn it either.



no, you are not functioning as an oral surgeon. you are functioning as an exodontist. big difference.

and in the (paraphrased) words of the ADA, every general dentists is held to the same standard as a specialist, if they perform a procedure that a specialist performs. it isn't just the "comprehensive" dentists.



i'm glad to see someone else thinks this is as laughable as i do!! the "comprehensive" denists spend two years in general dentistry, and suddenly think they have all the skills of an oral surgeon, periodontist, endodontist and prosthodontists all combined!

To my Friend form UMKC,

Have I not used the term "sub-specialist" and not oral surgeon, endodontist, etc. I do not pretend to know it all, likewise, niether does the oral surgeon, endodontist, etc. know it all. Point is nobody does. Yes, they know more than I do in thier field, but it is nice to have a wealth of knowledge about every field. I do believe it is hard to evaluate what a program teaches if the evaluator has never done it. Your logic is sound in the idea that the graduate of a Comp. Program is not an oral surgeon, endodontist, etc. (I agree, but the wording "function as" would tell the reader that the person is not one, but filling a void. I used this wording.) Having said that, I would have a hard time knowing how much time is spent by the the oral surgeon, endodontist, etc. in trying to educate the Comp. Resident in their field, if I had never completed a Comp. Program. Now, like other posts where you have attacked others. I do not feel we should get into a match of opinions on who is right. (we can do that in private) In your defense I did state what I "feel" the Comp. Program has done for me and you have the right to speculate (from what I understand you have not done a Comp. Program) what it did not do for me. My goal is to give some insight to individuals who are trying to decide which residency they would like to choose. I personally know the people who create the course work for both programs and the intent and therefore course work is different. I would be lying if I said it is the same program just one year longer.

*Special note* I did mention that anyone who does cases that typically would be done by a specialist is held to the standards in that field. Please read the () portions as well. Please read my posts carefully prior to the response.

Lastly, you asked about the "ultimate credential" comment. In any health professional field (physicians, dentist, etc.) Board Certification by a Certifying Board is the ultimate mainstay Credential. Now, some Boards themselves may offer extra side awards, I do not know. However, I do know that if a Hospital Credentialing Committee ever where to look at a health professionals CV the Board Certification is the ultimate credential they look for. What does it get in private practice? Well, I have to answer very honest, I do not know, it is speculation at this point I am not in private practice. I would speculate that if the criteria is about $$$, I would say not a whole lot.



SoonerFan,



P.S. If you are not happy with me because of last years football season results, just say so and lets get on with it Just a friendly joke...

 

[beijingdds]

I think the Bravo program is just for people who wanted to stay in and make the O6. However, you don't always get to use what you learn and almost never use it. OIC of my clinic who is a Bravo dentist never does any surgery, endo and implants. Mostly he does is adminstrative duties. Fiancially, you make good money being a "specialist" in the army and get promoted. However, you still consider a general dentist out in the cilivian world which does not make any difference at all. For now, people applies to the residency are either don't know what they get themselves into or just wanted to make a career of the army(mostly people who have prior service so that it is quicker for them to get to 20 years mark).

Bottom line, almost 100% people(63A) get out of the army after their payback. You tell me why is that the case!!!! Go figure!

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

Bottom line is if you are in the HPSP you really should do a residency to make your payback time worthwhile. It gives you one-two years to learn how the army (in my case) works, then you can make it work for you once you get out. The Amalgam line is Real!!!!!!!! And with the experience of "a" residency you can typically avoid it to some extent. Even as a one year resident I typically get alot of the OS and Pros from our clinic due to the fact that the specialists are to booked. My dental school gave all 3rd molars to the residents......so I had zero experience. But working with the Oral surgeons (and other specialties) one on one for about 2 months each was life changing.

Again if you are considering staying in the military and are sure you want to be a General dentist I would recommend the 2 year, otherwise do the one year and reevaluate what you want to do after. A good number of the one year residents went on to specialize after the 1 year because they found their "calling in life" in the one year. But either way both are very good programs.

PS you can always do the 2 year after the one year. That way you have 3 years of General Residency and are a "Super Comprehensive Dentist"

 

[beijingdds]

Well, residency is a good thing and will beef up your clinic skills. However, the payback is substantial too. You will avoid the amalgam line to some extent. If you graduate from one year AEGD, you are almost definitely be assigned to a Division slot which will deploy over 12 months or more in Iraq. Secondly, that one year of training does not count towards the payback.

Also, i can't believe how stupid the Decom people are because they spend so much money training the residents and they all ETS after their payback. I heard now the sign on bonus is 20k on top of HPSP. Ferking pathetic and someone in dencom is desperate!!!

 

[umkcdds]

If you graduate from one year AEGD, you are almost definitely be assigned to a Division slot which will deploy over 12 months or more in Iraq.

this is only true if you aren't proactive about where you go. stay in contact with HRC early and often. ask questions about what is available and what types of slots they are.

out of the last 16 AEGD residents from ft campbell, only four are going to/went to a MTOE unit. and none of them were forced to go there.

you do have a fair amount of choice about where you go. you just have to be proactive. don't sit back and wait for an assignment to be forced upon you.

 

[SoonerFan]

Bottom line is if you are in the HPSP you really should do a residency to make your payback time worthwhile. It gives you one-two years to learn how the army (in my case) works, then you can make it work for you once you get out. The Amalgam line is Real!!!!!!!! And with the experience of "a" residency you can typically avoid it to some extent. Even as a one year resident I typically get alot of the OS and Pros from our clinic due to the fact that the specialists are to booked. My dental school gave all 3rd molars to the residents......so I had zero experience. But working with the Oral surgeons (and other specialties) one on one for about 2 months each was life changing.

Again if you are considering staying in the military and are sure you want to be a General dentist I would recommend the 2 year, otherwise do the one year and reevaluate what you want to do after. A good number of the one year residents went on to specialize after the 1 year because they found their "calling in life" in the one year. But either way both are very good programs.

PS you can always do the 2 year after the one year. That way you have 3 years of General Residency and are a "Super Comprehensive Dentist"

All,

I could not agree more strongly with HawkeyeDDS's first sentence (I basically agree with his whole post). Yes, you are going to be in more time, but you gain "high" value in your payback time instead of just going through the motions. Basically, I feel my Residency training has more value added to me than the fact that I recieved a 4yr. HPSP Scholarship. Now, to be fair I went to a inexpensive dental school.


SoonerFan

 

[krmower]

I did my 2-year in Hawaii. It was very difficult looking out on the ocean - but someone had to do it

 

[DevilDOgDDS]

More imput on Hawaii. Graduate in 09 and applying for 2yr. Is on-base housing a sure thing or is it hit or miss? (I got 4 kids)

 

[DrSmiles12]

Whats the payback like when you do a 1 yr or 2 yr AEGD? I want to know the total time assuming a 4 yr payback from the 4 yr HPSP from D-school.

THANKS

 

[umkcdds]

the years you spend in the aegd's (both of them) are neutral years - your payback from HPSP does not start until you are done with the program.

 

[krmower]

More imput on Hawaii. Graduate in 09 and applying for 2yr. Is on-base housing a sure thing or is it hit or miss? (I got 4 kids)

I left in 2004 and they had just begun building all sorts of new housing - very nice from what I hear. Prior to that the housing was not very nice. Because the whole landscape has changed there I am not sure. However you can look up Schofield Barracks housing in google and call and ask what the wait list is for a Captain with the number of kids you have. When we were there and housing was more limited we were on a 13 month wait list so we rented and then bought - best thing I ever did - obviously the housing market is a little different now. Current BAH rates for Hawaii for a Captain are $2700/month - you could find a house to rent for that much without too much problem I would think.

Other rates can be found here. http://images.military.com//ContenFiles/2008-BAH-With.pdf

 

[krmower]

Whats the payback like when you do a 1 yr or 2 yr AEGD? I want to know the total time assuming a 4 yr payback from the 4 yr HPSP from D-school.

THANKS

As umkcdds stated the residencies are neutral - the times you are in the programs do not count toward your HPSP payback. However the payback is simultaneous with your HPSP payback. If you did a 1-yr you would do a total of 5 yrs. If you did a 2-yr you would owe 6 yrs total.

 

[beijingdds]

As umkcdds stated the residencies are neutral - the times you are in the programs do not count toward your HPSP payback. However the payback is simultaneous with your HPSP payback. If you did a 1-yr you would do a total of 5 yrs. If you did a 2-yr you would owe 6 yrs total.

I wonder why AEGD(both 2 year and 1 year) did not count towards the payback whereas OS and other speciality can payback concurrently. I wonder how much the DENCOM and HRC want to screw the general dentists.

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

I wonder why AEGD(both 2 year and 1 year) did not count towards the payback whereas OS and other speciality can payback concurrently. I wonder how much the DENCOM and HRC want to screw the general dentists.

It's the same. Any residency counts as neutral years. In other words if you still owe time for your HPSP, then the residency, 1yr 2yr OS Endo etc will not add years of payback, it's just that the residency doesn't count toward your payback. In my case my one year residency counted toward payback, it was not a neutral year. But things have changed and now it is just Neutral. (however they will almost get that year back with stoploss).

The only caveat is if you do not have any additional years remaining on your HPSP, and you do a residency....then you would add additional years on to your commitment. If you did your 4 years Payback for HPSP then decided you wanted to do ENDO residency in the military. When you were finished with the residency you would have to work as an Endodontist for 3 years with the military before you could get out.

 

[beijingdds]

It's the same. Any residency counts as neutral years. In other words if you still owe time for your HPSP, then the residency, 1yr 2yr OS Endo etc will not add years of payback, it's just that the residency doesn't count toward your payback. In my case my one year residency counted toward payback, it was not a neutral year. But things have changed and now it is just Neutral. (however they will almost get that year back with stoploss).

The only caveat is if you do not have any additional years remaining on your HPSP, and you do a residency....then you would add additional years on to your commitment. If you did your 4 years Payback for HPSP then decided you wanted to do ENDO residency in the military. When you were finished with the residency you would have to work as an Endodontist for 3 years with the military before you could get out.

Now they let everybody to apply for residency while they are in school. Before, you can't even apply to certain specialty such as endo after serving 2 years as a general dentist. This is a good thing if someone can't live without that specialty. To me, I don't know if i want to commit one specialty the rest of my life.

 

[beijingdds]

It's the same. Any residency counts as neutral years. In other words if you still owe time for your HPSP, then the residency, 1yr 2yr OS Endo etc will not add years of payback, it's just that the residency doesn't count toward your payback. In my case my one year residency counted toward payback, it was not a neutral year. But things have changed and now it is just Neutral. (however they will almost get that year back with stoploss).

The only caveat is if you do not have any additional years remaining on your HPSP, and you do a residency....then you would add additional years on to your commitment. If you did your 4 years Payback for HPSP then decided you wanted to do ENDO residency in the military. When you were finished with the residency you would have to work as an Endodontist for 3 years with the military before you could get out.

So how did you get stuck with the stop loss? I mean, you must be a division dentist. I think they can't stop loss you if you are just a profis doctor.

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

So how did you get stuck with the stop loss? I mean, you must be a division dentist. I think they can't stop loss you if you are just a profis doctor.

Yep, Division Dentist. I've posted a fairly long thread on that experience earlier, it's the Army's dirty little secret that the recruiters won't tell anyone. It's really pretty stupid anyway. We should all be profis. There is no need for me to set up tents, drive 5 ton vehicles any other grunt work. But if I more of an asset doing that than dentistry, that they paid over 180K for me to graduate, then that is up to them.

 

[beijingdds]

Yep, Division Dentist. I've posted a fairly long thread on that experience earlier, it's the Army's dirty little secret that the recruiters won't tell anyone. It's really pretty stupid anyway. We should all be profis. There is no need for me to set up tents, drive 5 ton vehicles any other grunt work. But if I more of an asset doing that than dentistry, that they paid over 180K for me to graduate, then that is up to them.

My sympathy towards you man. I hope you can get some kinda of "compensation" for your stop loss. We will feel the same way as you do. Don't worry, once you get out, you will just enjoy a real good doctor's life. Army sucks!!

 

[Herme]

Sorry, I'm resurrecting this thread a bit, but it has a lot of great info in it. There was one question asked earlier I didn't see an answer to that I also am interested in.

If you're on the AF hpsp, how difficult is it to get into the AEGD-1 with the AF.

and also,

If you're with the AF, can you apply for AEGD with other branches, or no. Or is that not really advantageous?

 

[umkcdds]

Sorry, I'm resurrecting this thread a bit, but it has a lot of great info in it. There was one question asked earlier I didn't see an answer to that I also am interested in.

If you're on the AF hpsp, how difficult is it to get into the AEGD-1 with the AF.

and also,

If you're with the AF, can you apply for AEGD with other branches, or no. Or is that not really advantageous?

you can't apply to the AEGD of other branches.

i *think* that you are required to apply for the AEGD right out of school, but aren't required to accept it. the army does this because they don't have enough applicants to fill all the available AEGD slots, so it is pretty easy to get into the AEGD. i would *assume* this is also the case for the AF.

 

[GOARMYDENTAL]

I am writing here first of all, as a tax-paying citizen of the United States, 2nd as a proud member of our active duty military forces, and 3rd as a dental specialist who teaches in a military residency program.

To all those who have bad things to say about the military, I would like to point out the griping and whining I read here is pretty disappointing to read from my "esteemed" dental colleagues. You have obviously not had many challenging experiences in your lives yet...

As a tax payer, who works incredibly hard to make sure our dental residents learn as much as possible (I work no less than 60-70 hrs every week), I am disgusted at the thought of my hard earned tax dollars being used to pay those of you who are negative about your service in the military. Your scholarships should be revoked as you don't deserve to serve in the military or wear the same uniform as those of us who know why we are here and why the United States people pay our salaries...to provide outstanding dental care for each and every one of our precious Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen, and Marines who continually give over and over to us.

For those of you who don't feel the same way, you should seriously consider giving ALL THE MONEY THE US GOV'T HAS PAID YOU FOR YOUR SCHOOLING. Don't waste our time by continuing on when you couldn't care less about anyone but yourself.

For many years, I have been on both sides of the tracks...civilian and military practice...2 different worlds...I also am still paying off all my student loans (which are now down to $200,000 after paying for many years...). For those of you who will have ALL your school paid for by the military (this was not an option for me), you really have no ground to stand on when you say how bad the military is...NONE whatsoever.

While I pay more than $2,000 a month in student loan payments (and for many more years), you will pay $0 forever.

I strongly suggest the negative folks here do some serious soul searching and do NOT enter the military service if you can't handle the pressure.

This service to our precious country is an honor and a blessing. This kind of pressure is a privilege. Do not come into my military and take up precious resources if you will not act with honor and integrity. Find somewhere else to go and someone else to pay your bills besides those who WANT strong, positive people to serve our country.

Disgusted at the NEGATIVE attitude you display here...

 

[jmick101]

Hey Go Army,

I totally hear what you are saying. I was enlisted for a while and did all kinds of grunt work for the Army. While we all moaned and groaned about it, when we went home in our greens, we were proud as hell to be soldiers. For some of us here, I think we tend to think of this board as a private place to let those considering the military hear the pros and cons in order to make a good choice, so I wouldn't necessarily agree that airing grievances is a bad thing. But to say nothing but negatives is wrong, especially coming from commissioned officers.

Anyways, it is great to have an Old Codger on the board to help bring some insight our way. I have a question. I took the NBDE 1 a few weeks ago and earned a 78. Guess that answers the "will I be specializing soon after Dental School" question. That score sucks. What I am wondering is how would this affect my chances at getting into the 1 or 2 year AEGD programs?

 

[GOARMYDENTAL]

Thanks for the positive response.
I have to point out that calling someone you are asking advice from an "Old Codger" isn't the best way to make a good impression, especially in the military setting. Just a word of caution for your future.

Do you already have an HPSP?

If so, the national boards scores will mean very little in terms of getting into the AEGD programs. The overriding philosophy of military dentistry is once you are "one of us", you are programmed and destined for success. We want you to be successful, to get additional training, to make the best of what you have to offer, etc. The selection process of getting into programs (once you are already in and established, i.e. scholarship with ADSO), is pretty straightforward.

Certain specialties, i.e. endo and ortho are much more competitive but pretty much everything else is a wide open doorway. That does not mean you can get away with not applying yourself but it is easier to get into programs in the military than on the outside, by far.

I hope this info helps you as you plan your future. If I can be of assistance, please let me know. Just remember not to call me an old codger...

GOARMYDENTAL!!! HOOAH!!!

 

[jmick101]

Got it, no more "old codger" sorry if you took offense, none intended.

Good to hear about the AEGD. Thanks. For a career officer would you plan on doing the 2 year or the 1 year AEGD soon after school. I am planning on retiring since I have a 7 year duty obligation (Undergrad plus Dental School) and have already done a few years of active duty.

 

[jmick101]

Bottom line is if you are in the HPSP you really should do a residency to make your payback time worthwhile. It gives you one-two years to learn how the army (in my case) works, then you can make it work for you once you get out. The Amalgam line is Real!!!!!!!! And with the experience of "a" residency you can typically avoid it to some extent. Even as a one year resident I typically get alot of the OS and Pros from our clinic due to the fact that the specialists are to booked. My dental school gave all 3rd molars to the residents......so I had zero experience. But working with the Oral surgeons (and other specialties) one on one for about 2 months each was life changing.

Again if you are considering staying in the military and are sure you want to be a General dentist I would recommend the 2 year, otherwise do the one year and reevaluate what you want to do after. A good number of the one year residents went on to specialize after the 1 year because they found their "calling in life" in the one year. But either way both are very good programs.

PS you can always do the 2 year after the one year. That way you have 3 years of General Residency and are a "Super Comprehensive Dentist"

Hawkeye,

So lets say that someone "finds their calling" in life and wants to specialize after the 1 year AEGD. What is the timeline like for that? Would it be: 1year AEGD and apply for residency during AEGD, wait for a year after AEGD for the residency cycle to begin? Or is it just jump into a residency immediately after the AEGD?

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

Hawkeye,

So lets say that someone "finds their calling" in life and wants to specialize after the 1 year AEGD. What is the timeline like for that? Would it be: 1year AEGD and apply for residency during AEGD, wait for a year after AEGD for the residency cycle to begin? Or is it just jump into a residency immediately after the AEGD?

To answer your question, yes, you would apply during your residency. I believe most applications are due by November for residencies. (check with HRC for exact dates). Usually that is not for the following summer because you will just be finishing up your one year residency at that point. It is usually for the following year. So the year in between can either be spent at your AGD location working as a general dentist, or maybe you can swing a deal to PCS to your residency location and work as a general dentist. You might get lucky and get to work under your specialty even though you haven't started the residency yet. There are several exceptions though. I know several people who did Pros and Perio and even an OS or 2 who got picked up for the following summer right out of their 1 year program. It just depends on how many openings there are. Endo, ortho and even OS....good luck, but that doesn't mean don't try. There are a good number of people that apply for both the civilan and military residencies, and when they get accepted to the civilian residency, decline the military one. They are able to decline the military one because their time is up, and they haven't started their residency, thereby not accruing any additional commitment. Hope that answered your questions. I would say that the sooner you know what you want to do, the better.

 

[jmick101]

Nice. I have a prior service friend who graduated last year and went immediately into an OS slot because someone backed out last minute, so I know that that happens on occasion. Thanks for the info.

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

Got it, no more "old codger" sorry if you took offense, none intended.

Good to hear about the AEGD. Thanks. For a career officer would you plan on doing the 2 year or the 1 year AEGD soon after school. I am planning on retiring since I have a 7 year duty obligation (Undergrad plus Dental School) and have already done a few years of active duty.

If I was in your shoes and going to do General Dentistry, I would do the 2 years. 50k worth of reasons for doing roughly the same job. If you're not sure and want to keep your options open, maybe consider the one year. There is a fairly new program in the Army for dentists who did the one year AGD to get a 25k retention bonus, but you might as well have done one more year and get an additional 25k a year.

Honestly, to make a career out of the military you need a specialty to be taken seriously. Promotions/Pay etc. And every year you delay is one less year you will get that 50k retention bonus after your initial obligation is complete.

 

[makushin]

.

 

[jmick101]

If someone on HPSP went from school straight into a 2 year AEGD, would they start getting the $50k bonus immediatly after finishing the AEGD, or would it start after payback years for HPSP?

The 50k is a retention bonus after you have completed your Active Duty Service Obligation (ADSO). Basically, the Army wants to keep you in the Army after you are no longer contractually obligated to stay in (i.e. after you have done your 4 year ADSO for dental school). At that point they offer the following deal: Bonus x years= total bonus. The bonus is specific for different jobs in the Army such as General dentists, Oral Surgeons, Comprehensive Dentist (which is the same as Oral Surgeons by the way), vascular surgeons, primary care doctors, Special Forces soldiers, etc..

For example, the retention bonus for a Comprehensive Dentist is 50k. So if you sign on for another 4 years (that is the max number of years you can sign for) you would get 50,000 x 4= 200,000. I am not sure how much of that would be taxed, but its still a nice chunk of change. Some of the guys who have done it please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the details that I have laid out are pretty much how it is.

 

[jim85213]

Wait....so you can get a retention bonus after fours years even though the commitment is technically eight years?

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

Wait....so you can get a retention bonus after fours years even though the commitment is technically eight years?

Yes, this has already been hashed out earlier, but in summary

2 years residency + 3 or 4 year commitment (dental school and residency payback run concurrently) (and no the IRR doesn't count against you for the retention bonus) =5-6 years of payback for your HPSP and residency:

At this point you can either switch to IRR to fulfill your 8 year commitment and move into private practice, or you can sign a new contract with the retention bonus included.

For example you did the 2 year, and your 4 years payback. You decide to reup with the military. You will be promoted to O4 at 6 years (barring homicide), and depending on the length of contract you sign you will start receiving 50k a year at that point. (if you sign a 3 year commitment the retention bonus is lower)

So you would start seeing that money beginning in year 6. But remember you have to "specialize" to see that $. 1 year AGD does not count.