It's not about protectionism. It's about tax payer dollars being used for American tax payers benefit. Would you be in favor of all American public universities stop giving Americans priority in medical school and we get flooded with outside people? Will you give up your seat if I can find a guy in Romania with a 45 on the MCAT because of the evils of protectionism?
The money should go to train the best physicians possible, not whatever physicians happen to be American. That's why Americans should not receive preferential treatment- it is about the patients receiving the best physicians they can for their tax dollars. If you would like lesser qualified physicians that happen to be American to practice in place of ones with extensive research and great potential to shape medicine but happen to be foreign, you're a fool. Our residency system is set up the way it is for a reason- we want the best and brightest, not a Made in the USA sticker.
PDs know who's going to put work in on research, which residents tend to be the most productive, and which schools tend to turn out the best future residents. They've seen hundreds, sometimes even thousands of residents go through their programs. To disregard actual experience for a guy that happens to have citizenship is, well, stupid.
Best based on what? A test? Have you never encountered someone that can break a test but is completely inept in other ways? American grads are the only ones treated both academically and in practice. You are simply gambling to maybe give patients better care because someone might be able to xerox the step into their head.
People are also biased. Is a PD that's a DO more likely to take a DO? How about an FMG giving a chance to other FMGs? You speak as if these people are objective and can see into the soul into an Indian kid and really predict she'll be better in patient care when all he has on hand is a resume.
Step scores are not the only thing PDs look at. There's these interview things, research, awards, grades, ECs, you know- a whole application. Scores get your app looked at, but they aren't getting you in.
While PDs have their biases, I certainly trust their individual judgment over slapping a blanket approval on every American medical graduate.
But these FMGs have many years to their advantage that we don't -- longer time to study for boards (lead to higher scores), are already fully practicing medicine in their country, and have multiple years of research and awards for their work. They would certainly look much better than the average US graduates when we are competing for the same spots.
Under your standards very few people will have those stellar research and awards. It doesn't reflect what the candidate pool is. It also doesn't address their ability to handle patient care, but we can conclude they will have cultural barriers having lived outside of the US and will likely have an accent. Again, untested people you think should get priority based on points on a test or an award from god knows where compared to someone that has proven competent by the standards set by the United States.
They might very well be better residents then- they've got more experience. I mean, if I were a surgical PD and I had a guy who had six years of experience as a surgeon in another country and a good reputation versus a US grad, the US grad is going to need to show some serious potential to overcome that foreign applicant because they'll likely make my life a lot easier. That's just life- it isn't fair.
You are making some really ignorant and quite frankly offensive remarks in regard to FMGs. A lot of them speak excellent English, a lot of them come from first-world countries, etc. And it also implies that diversity in medicine isn't a good thing- often foreign residents bring unique perspectives to practice that we might lack. Hell, we had a lot of Chinese-educated residents where I used to work, and not only was their English stellar, but they were an incredible asset to have when dealing with the large number of Chinese-born patients we would have (we were the biggest major medical center near a casino that caters pretty heavily to a Chinese population, so we'd have a lot of acutely ill people rolling in from there).
Lol this is hilarious. I'm actually someone born in 3rd world country that came to the US as a teen, but I'm ignorant and offensive about immigration? Get real. There are people with excellent English and those that are not. I made that point very clear, and out doesn't matter if they are from Europe. I don't expect an Italian or German to understand our culture the way an American does.
Said premed, meant medical student, that was a legit accident. I'm well aware you're a medical student, I'm just kind of zoned out from doing UW test after UW test today. Regardless, you imply that understanding American culture is the only thing that is important when the US is projected to have 15% of its population as foreign-born by the time you're done with residency. Not only that, but those people have children, and at a much higher rate than native born US families, and they tend to have blended cultures that are often as closely tied to that of their parents than that of the US. So why, exactly, is having foreign physicians that understand the cultures of foreign US citizens a bad thing again? And why should we pass up on a student from Oxford or King's College London for some kid from LUCOM? I'm just not understanding how you think that passing up on better candidates is legitimately better for patients or the research apparatus upon which academic medicine depends.
Always the same argument of Oxford vs LUCOM when reality rarely if ever presents that way.
The whole purpose of Step 2 CS is to weed out people with poor skills in regard to patient interactions and direct patient care. Then we've got the interview. And then there's passing one of the hardest exams in the world in a second language. I mean, there's plenty of opportunities to show some degree of competence. I find it interesting that he's so quick to dismiss the wisdom of PDs that have to live with their decisions for years. They're obviously picking the people they think will make their lives as easy as possible, and aren't picking a FMG over a US grad unless they believe that to be the case. Because if that guy isn't competent and causes a malpractice case, that reflects on your judgment. If that guy has trouble with patients and residents, you might have to fire him, leaving a gaping hole in your schedule that you're going to agonize over for a year. And you're going to be the one putting in the extra time to make sure he's up to speed if he's incompetent. So the incentives are already there to pick the best candidate possible- US first has no place in our system for that very reason.
Are you or are you not currently paying medicare? I'm not sure I understand this comment..
So if it's already against them, why so scared to make it official?
I am, and I'm paying that money to get the best damn physicians the world can offer.
You're a big proponent of affirmative action in med school admission, aren't you? Yes you are and don't try to deny it, cause your post history speaks for itself.
You're a typical leftist hypocrite. When it comes to enforcing one of your leftist pet projects, "meritocracy" flies right out the window because we need social justice and patients need to have doctors they trust and connect with and yada yada yada blah blah blah..
But now that we're talking about putting Americans first, all of a sudden "meritocracy" is the prime directive! Having physicians in this country that patients can connect with (or even understand their crap English!) is no longer important because we must have meritocracy!
But what can I expect from a man who uses phrases like "Trumpenfuhrer." Learn to form cogent arguments, brah, cause you're embarrassing yourself.
You're incorrectly playing the moral high-ground. You have no issue with collecting tax payers "hard earned cash" to pay for a foreign physician to RE-TRAIN, and yet you have a moral issue with collecting tax payers "hard earned cash" to pay for your own country's well being (nationalized health care). The amount of hypocrisy right here, blows my mind it does.
You're a big proponent of affirmative action in med school admission, aren't you? Yes you are and don't try to deny it, cause your post history speaks for itself.
You're a typical leftist hypocrite. When it comes to enforcing one of your leftist pet projects, "meritocracy" flies right out the window because we need social justice and patients need to have doctors they trust and connect with and yada yada yada blah blah blah..
But now that we're talking about putting Americans first, all of a sudden "meritocracy" is the prime directive! Having physicians in this country that patients can connect with (or even understand their crap English!) is no longer important because we must have meritocracy! Why are you so quick to throw away the "meritocratic rights" of white and Asian American kids but hold them sacrosanct for foreigners?
But what can I expect from a man who throws in phrases like "Trumpenfuhrer" in a discussion of the medical match and thinks it's the cleverest thing since the advent of the wheel and axle. Learn to form cogent arguments, brah, cause you're embarrassing yourself.
Merit is sometime measured by the road one travels, not merely by GPA or MCAT score.
I'm getting a whiff of one of these so bad it's asking my sinuses melt and leak out my nose:
Applying Ignore function. You'll feel a slight pressure behind the eyes. Good look with matching from whatever Carib diploma mill you're at; I hear Uber is hiring these days.
More and more people see that Goro is a joke around here. What kind of PhD professor has time to be arguing with Med students all day and telling every premed they don't have what it takes? A loser that couldn't compete in real academia that went to school 4 decades ago and had to do a post-doc at NYCOM.
I don't have a problem doing it when all he does is bring down people and tell them they don't have what it takes. Until he accomplishes something if worth, his opinion toilet paper.
That was an Oxford comma.
