~3.5 and 519 need help making school list!

[wildkitten]

Hi, I'm having a lot of anxiety about making a school list and I'm feeling very conflicted about the strength of my application. I'm really not sure where to aim and whether it's worth shooting for high tier. My state school is great (IL) and I'm thinking there is a high likelihood I'll wind up there, but I would really like to leave the midwest if possible...

ORM
UG: USNWR Top 10 (not HYPS)
Major: Biology, minors in Anthropology and Psychology
cGPA: 3.65
sGPA: 3.55
MCAT: 519 (129, 129, 131, 130)

Research:
~1000 hours (2 summers and 2 schools years) at a basic science lab in UG medical school
3 posters, one at regional conference
writing seniors honor thesis
no pubs, hopefully in the next year or so... this research moves slowly to say the least but I love my lab and I was very involved in the scientific process

Clinical volunteering:
~100 hours hospice
~100 hours working at mom's clinic (which serves many low-income people) as assistant, but I'm not sure if it would look bad to include this :///
~50 hours shadowing primary care, neurologist, ED

Non-clinical volunteering
~150 hours volunteering at health desk in community center
~150 hours volunteering as peer health educator (kind of like RA)
~100 hours volunteer staff member for a social justice conference held at school
~50 miscellaneous hours in service club mentoring kids, etc.

Leadership:
Exec of peer health education group
Founder of premed volunteering group

Writing this all out for the first time makes it all seem even more sparse :/ My biggest concern is my low clinical hours, but I think working for hospice has given me a lot quality per the time I was volunteering, so hopefully that will prove my commitment to medicine.

Also, I'm in the process of searching for a gap year jobs. Would also appreciate suggestions for what would help my app at this point?

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[Faha]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
Illinois
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Boston University
Tufts
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
Jefferson
George Washington
Eastern Virginia
Virginia Commonwealth
Duke
Miami
NOVA MD
Tulane
Kaiser
California University

 

[candbgirl]

The hospice work is good. Maybe expand that. As to your mom’s clinic- are there other docs you can work with? Was your mom the primary care doc you shadowed? Unless things have changed you’re going to have to list your mom as the contact person. Maybe ask her to get you some other experience with her colleagues. Maybe get some hospital work. Although you seem to have many nonclinical experiences they all seem to be very comfortable. You need to get off campus and out of your comfort zone. Go find a soup kitchen or homeless shelter or some other way to help the unserved/underserved in your community. You have to show your altruism. In fact most all of your clinical and nonclinical experiences are very comfortable and I’ve never felt medicine was especially comfortable.
Your MCAT is very good but your GPAs are below average so keep that in mind when developing your school list. Besides UofI apply to private schools both IS and OOS.

 

[wildkitten]

The hospice work is good. Maybe expand that. As to your mom’s clinic- are there other docs you can work with? Was your mom the primary care doc you shadowed? Unless things have changed you’re going to have to list your mom as the contact person. Maybe ask her to get you some other experience with her colleagues. Maybe get some hospital work. Although you seem to have many nonclinical experiences they all seem to be very comfortable. You need to get off campus and out of your comfort zone. Go find a soup kitchen or homeless shelter or some other way to help the unserved/underserved in your community. You have to show your altruism. In fact most all of your clinical and nonclinical experiences are very comfortable and I’ve never felt medicine was especially comfortable.
Your MCAT is very good but your GPAs are below average so keep that in mind when developing your school list. Besides UofI apply to private schools both IS and OOS.

I’ve shadowed other doctors, but I’ve been employed at my mom’s clinic.

Also, what do you mean comfortable? I believe my ECs do show altruism and passion for causes I care about, but I will look for more ways to serve the underserved. But is soup kitchen or homeless shelter volunteering the only thing adcoms are looking for? Because that seems like a very limited definition of altruism...

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

Also, what do you mean comfortable? I believe my ECs do show altruism and passion for causes I care about, but I will look for more ways to serve the underserved. But is soup kitchen or homeless shelter volunteering the only thing adcoms are looking for? Because that seems like a very limited definition of altruism...

By comfortable, it means that you are spending your time on-campus...which is probably full of students with money (you did say that you go to a Top 10). Your college probably provides you with every single resource that you need. Your college campus probably has campus security.

That's not a bad thing!

But the type of people that you will one day serve may not always come from affluent backgrounds. They may not even have health insurance. Your patients may live in zip codes where poverty is the norm, where crime is commonplace, where success is defined as simply not getting caught by the police. People from these communities often cannot afford healthcare insurance, nor are they particularly valued in the current healthcare system.

So yeah. You gotta step outside of your comfort zone to show that you're willing to help out people that really need it. Not just rich people with good health insurance.

Other than that, I think your ECs look decent. Start writing your personal statement. Get some people with good writing skills to look over it.

You can do it!

As for your gap year job, you seem like you have a lot of research experience, so that would probably be an easy transition. If I were you, though, I would highly recommend that you get a job that will put you on a career path that will ultimately pay you well. I don't know what other skills you have, but you want a good backup in case you don't get into medical school. Not trying to discourage you, but you MUST have a Plan B.

 

[candbgirl]

I’ve shadowed other doctors, but I’ve been employed at my mom’s clinic.

Also, what do you mean comfortable? I believe my ECs do show altruism and passion for causes I care about, but I will look for more ways to serve the underserved. But is soup kitchen or homeless shelter volunteering the only thing adcoms are looking for? Because that seems like a very limited definition of altruism...

Of course those are not the only two things you can do. But they certainly would get you off campus. You could try working at a summer camp for disabled kids. Or maybe try coaching a group of disadvantaged kids in baseball or basketball. How about going regularly to visit a Veterans Home. This can be an amazing experience and some of these people just want to talk. If you spend some time thinking you’ll come up with lots of options, but you have to want to figure it out.

Medicine is a service profession and unless you are focusing on being a concierge doc you are going to have to deal with different people every single day of your career. They may be dirty, uneducated and certainly very sick. As @ArdorAyurvedo has so clearly stated you have to be comfortable dealing on a daily basis with people who are very different from you and your friends.

I also agree that you have tons of research. Are you looking to apply for a MD PhD? If not maybe shift into some clinical volunteering at a hospital. It would give you a different perspective from office work with your mother. I’m not saying that is wrong. In fact the longitudinal experience you have is great. You have seen your Mother’s patients over a long period of time under various circumstances.

 

[wildkitten]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
Illinois
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Boston University
Tufts
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
Jefferson
George Washington
Eastern Virginia
Virginia Commonwealth
Duke
Miami
NOVA MD
Tulane
Kaiser
California University

Thanks! Just wondering how did you put together a list like this lol

 

[Faha]

You mentioned you want to leave the Midwest so I picked mainly schools in other areas of the country where you could receive interviews with your stats.

 

[wildkitten]

By comfortable, it means that you are spending your time on-campus...which is probably full of students with money (you did say that you go to a Top 10). Your college probably provides you with every single resource that you need. Your college campus probably has campus security.

That's not a bad thing!

But the type of people that you will one day serve may not always come from affluent backgrounds. They may not even have health insurance. Your patients may live in zip codes where poverty is the norm, where crime is commonplace, where success is defined as simply not getting caught by the police. People from these communities often cannot afford healthcare insurance, nor are they particularly valued in the current healthcare system.

So yeah. You gotta step outside of your comfort zone to show that you're willing to help out people that really need it. Not just rich people with good health insurance.

Other than that, I think your ECs look decent. Start writing your personal statement. Get some people with good writing skills to look over it.

You can do it!

As for your gap year job, you seem like you have a lot of research experience, so that would probably be an easy transition. If I were you, though, I would highly recommend that you get a job that will put you on a career path that will ultimately pay you well. I don't know what other skills you have, but you want a good backup in case you don't get into medical school. Not trying to discourage you, but you MUST have a Plan B.

It amazes me the extent to which people freely make assumptions about others on the internet. I may go to an ‘elite’ university but that doesn’t mean I’m looking to simply help the “rich with good health insurance”. I’ve preserved some details of my ECs to remain anonymity but I very much understand the nuances of our healthcare system and who it does and does not advantage, more than you are giving me credit for.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

As far as gap year jobs: the volunteering is the weakest part of your application. You could do something like Americorps' National Health Corps to really bolster your clinical volunteering.

 

[wildkitten]

As far as gap year jobs: the volunteering is the weakest part of your application. You could do something like Americorps' National Health Corps to really bolster your clinical volunteering.

Yes, I'm worried about this. I'm looking into a AmeriCorps position as a Substance Abuse Advocate for my gap year. Do you think I am still competitive enough to apply this year?

 

[wildkitten]

I had similar stats to you but with less clinical experience. Applied all MD/PhD, so it's a bit different.

I received 3 interviews, two at ~T20 schools, one at a ~T40. Accepted to a T20-ish program and WL'd at the other two. Received one II at a school where my MCAT is below the mean and my GPA is below the 10th percentile. No love from the many mid-ranked schools I applied to.

I'm confident that I would have received more interviews if I had more clinical experience and if I had relied less on AP classes for pre-reqs. It's also possible that my research carried me all the way.

All that to say, you can safely apply to a few T20 schools in my humble opinion, but you obviously shouldn't expect to get interviews.

Also add Case Western to Faha's list.

Good luck!

This is interesting. Can I ask you about your MD/PhD application experience?

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

For your gap year, I recommend that you get a well-paying job with good benefits. You can volunteer after work or on the weekends. Applications for med school are expensive, and if you get in, you will probably have some considerable moving expenses. Having a good-paying job will help you in this regard.

And like I said earlier, you should plan for the worst. What if you don’t get into med school?

How will two years of volunteering help make you a better candidate for your next step in life?

 

[wildkitten]

For your gap year, I recommend that you get a well-paying job with good benefits. You can volunteer after work or on the weekends. Applications for med school are expensive, and if you get in, you will probably have some considerable moving expenses. Having a good-paying job will help you in this regard.

And like I said earlier, you should plan for the worst. What if you don’t get into med school?

How will two years of volunteering help make you a better candidate for your next step in life?

How does one plan for the worst?

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

Planes2Doc's Ultimate Guide to Final Fantasy 7, Medical School Purgatory, & Typical Pre-Med Missteps

There are only two kinds of successful pre-meds: 1. Those that make into medical school. 2. Those that drop the pre-med track soon enough to embark on a new path and become successful. There is NOTHING in between, and there is no consolation prize waiting for you if you don't have that...

forums.studentdoctor.net

The worst would be that you end up stuck in a dead-end job because you chose to spend your gap year doing a job with no real upward mobility/career path.

Therefore, you plan for that by choosing a job that will set you up for a good career in the future. Computer programming, engineering, consulting, finance, banking, whatever it will be. Something that will allow you to support yourself and let you achieve your goals.

Maybe you want to be a writer or an artist, cool. You can do some freelance work in your gap year. As long as it aligns with your long-term goals.

All I'm saying is, don't be a full-time volunteer after you graduate from a Top 10 public school.

Basically, have a plan for if you don't get in because no one is guaranteed admission.

 

[wildkitten]

Of course those are not the only two things you can do. But they certainly would get you off campus. You could try working at a summer camp for disabled kids. Or maybe try coaching a group of disadvantaged kids in baseball or basketball. How about going regularly to visit a Veterans Home. This can be an amazing experience and some of these people just want to talk. If you spend some time thinking you’ll come up with lots of options, but you have to want to figure it out.

Medicine is a service profession and unless you are focusing on being a concierge doc you are going to have to deal with different people every single day of your career. They may be dirty, uneducated and certainly very sick. As @ArdorAyurvedo has so clearly stated you have to be comfortable dealing on a daily basis with people who are very different from you and your friends.

I also agree that you have tons of research. Are you looking to apply for a MD PhD? If not maybe shift into some clinical volunteering at a hospital. It would give you a different perspective from office work with your mother. I’m not saying that is wrong. In fact the longitudinal experience you have is great. You have seen your Mother’s patients over a long period of time under various circumstances.

I'm wondering if you think I am still competitive to apply this year (June). If I am committed to MD, is it worth to take 2 gap years instead of 1 to bolster clinical experience? Or would getting a clinically related job for my gap year suffice?

 

[candbgirl]

You’ve gotten really good advice in this thread. Maybe read through it and think about what people are trying to tell you. You need to bolster nonclinical experiences not really clinical experiences(although that's a good idea too.). The thing with anticipating an activity to be done over your gap year, is that the activity is looked at as anticipated and not completed. We all know the road is paved with good intentions but frequently life gets in the way and what you think will get done ends up not getting done. That’s how ADCOMS view it too. So it’s okay to get a job for your gap year but maybe don’t list specifics and then you can update schools (that accept updates) after you’ve been there awhile.

As to the worth of taking two gap years- you really only want to apply one time with the best possible application. If you look at your application and can truthfully say “ this is me “ in the best light. It tells my story in words and actions. I’m proud of this application and it couldn’t be any better - then apply. But remember only around 40 percent of applicants are accepted each cycle. That means 60 percent of applicants are rejected. And that 60 percent includes applicants that have stellar applications.