2021-2022 Pain Fellowship Application Thread

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Similar boat with invites (4) but a lot of rejections lol. I know we keep saying it's still early but I don't think it is anymore. A very respectable number of programs have sent out invites already. I think I'll probably end up with 4-6 total invites for the season.

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Similar boat with invites (4) but a lot of rejections lol. I know we keep saying it's still early but I don't think it is anymore. A very respectable number of programs have sent out invites already. I think I'll probably end up with 4-6 total invites for the season.
i mean only 1/3 of programs have sent out invites. None of the texas programs, the three harvards, and most of the NY programs are still waiting to send them out....
 
i mean only 1/3 of programs have sent out invites. None of the texas programs, the three harvards, and most of the NY programs are still waiting to send them out....
You're right, I guess I'm a glass-empty kinda guy. I'm not expecting Tx or Harvard programs to extend interviews to me. NY ones maybe.
 
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I have a healthy amount but it is probably because I applied to a lot more programs than I should have. A colleague in my program only has a few. I think it is just the luck of the draw.
 
Was anyone able to sign up for an interview at Rush? Both my friend and I tried to sign up within the hour, and all the spots were already filled. Not sure if this was an error on the program's end or if they just invited more people than there were spots available.
 
Was anyone able to sign up for an interview at Rush? Both my friend and I tried to sign up within the hour, and all the spots were already filled. Not sure if this was an error on the program's end or if they just invited more people than there were spots available.
Wouldn't surprise me, they're a bit "Hunger Games" about the whole thing. I would contact their coordinator and ask though.
 
Wouldn't surprise me, they're a bit "Hunger Games" about the whole thing. I would contact their coordinator and ask though.
I signed up right after I got the email. Spots were disappearing While i looked at it
 
I think they sent like >2x the invites compared to spots. I tried to signup 30mins after the invite but could only get on the waitlist.
 
I have a healthy amount but it is probably because I applied to a lot more programs than I should have. A colleague in my program only has a few. I think it is just the luck of the draw.
Could step 1 score be playing a factor? CA1 currently looking to see what my fate will be next year. Have heard programs want these outdated scores with no clinical relevance.
 
Could step 1 score be playing a factor? CA1 currently looking to see what my fate will be next year. Have heard programs want these outdated scores with no clinical relevance.
Yes they definitely play a factor in that you can get screened out. They're definitely not outdated in the sense that they want to see if you can take and pass a test. With that said, plenty of interviews are going to people with step scores in the 210-230s
 
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long time lurker....>10+ years this is a throwaway account. I think steps play some role, but they are not the end all or be all
 
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long time lurker....>10+ years this is a throwaway account. I think steps play some role, but they are not the end all or be all
Most people who did well on steps will tell you that they matter a lot. Most people who didn’t do well on steps will tell you that they don’t matter much. As with anything, the truth is likely somewhere in between. I can tell you that I did pretty average on my step exams and that has not stopped me from receiving interviews.
 
Do most programs typically send out a second wave of interviews? There's a couple programs I'm very interested in who have sent out invites per the spreadsheet where I didn't get one. One of my current interviews in hand is a program who had sent out their first batch of invites a while back and then I got lucky and got a second batch one recently. Wasn't sure if this is fairly common or if I'm better off reaching out to those programs expressing interest.
 
Do most programs typically send out a second wave of interviews? There's a couple programs I'm very interested in who have sent out invites per the spreadsheet where I didn't get one. One of my current interviews in hand is a program who had sent out their first batch of invites a while back and then I got lucky and got a second batch one recently. Wasn't sure if this is fairly common or if I'm better off reaching out to those programs expressing interest.
after browsing prior years it seems the pre coivd pre zoom era some people would get a second wind of invites as people cancelled as the season went on but it seems that happened less once covid came and zoom arrived
 
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anyone know if a anesthesia program is on probation has any implication for the fellowships?
 
searching the acgme website seems like there are two in the northeast ?

Public data. Yale and Allegheny Health Network. Unsure how much that impacts a fellowship, although one could project it may lead to more service duties/call coverage by fellows that were previously fulfilled by residents and possibly implicate problems with leadership/administration
 
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Anyone with insight on the toledo program? Not a ton of info from looking at previous years threads.
 
I feel like there is barely any info about most programs except the big-name ones. Also most program websites are useless.
 
How are the actual interviews going for you all? I keep ruminating on dumb answers I give to behavioral questions :rofl:
 
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Anyone with insight on the toledo program? Not a ton of info from looking at previous years threads.
Info from last year:

Rotate half with the university program, and half with an associated private practice. There were three or four docs at the university program, with three or four more who had trained at Cleveland clinic at the associated private practice group. Medium interventional with good all around exposure. Quoted numbers for stim weren’t anything crazy (I think 10-14 per fellow, but may be more) experience for kyphoplasty as well. I don’t think they did much with SIJ fusion or vertiflex, but don’t remember.

Associate PD very personable and very interested in growing the program and developing. Toledo in general has a big emphasis on simulation with cadaver teaching and industry sponsored sessions.

I didn’t rank it as highly because of location, and also because there was talk of further expanding APS coverage resulting in fellows covering significantly more weekends. No idea if this came to pass.

Also, I didn’t rank programs as highly where half of your experience was based with a private practice group. My n=1 logic: a lot can change in the 9 months between matching and starting. If a private group decided to pull out, that would have a huge impact on my training and volumes.
Sorry I don’t have deeper info than this...
 
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Anyone know anything about the George Washington program? How's the faculty and procedures?
 
So I’m under the impression that 2021 is the first year of fellows at GW, based on the NMRP report where it lists all fellows by state and program for each year. Is that true?
 
Does this year seem unexpectedly leaner in terms of invites? I was seriously expecting more than 4 by now
 
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Does this year seem unexpectedly leaner in terms of invites? I was seriously expecting more than 4 by now
was literally going to post the exact same thoughts..is it more selective this year for invites given its zoom and the masses? just my two cents
 
Everyone I know is struggling with the lack of invites right now.
 
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There's definitely been a sharp increase in the number of applications we've received this year, but the number of interviews remained static. It's taken longer to look through the candidates than it has in prior years, so the invites were definitely slower to roll out. That said, I strongly suspect that a small group of people are hoarding interviews because they don't have to consider the cost of travel, which sucks for everyone but them.
 
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There's definitely been a sharp increase in the number of applications we've received this year, but the number of interviews remained static. It's taken longer to look through the candidates than it has in prior years, so the invites were definitely slower to roll out. That said, I strongly suspect that a small group of people are hoarding interviews because they don't have to consider the cost of travel, which sucks for everyone but them.
You would’ve expected that the program would account for this. 🤷🏽‍♂️
 
So I’m under the impression that 2021 is the first year of fellows at GW, based on the NMRP report where it lists all fellows by state and program for each year. Is that true?
I think you're correct. Have you seen anything about who the PD or chair will be? The website doesn't have a ton on it.
 
For those who interviewed at UC Davis already, what time did the interview day start and end?
 
I think you're correct. Have you seen anything about who the PD or chair will be? The website doesn't have a ton on it.

I interviewed at GW last year. The PD at that time was May Chin and can’t imagine why it would be different now. The program emphasized they focused on “bread and butter” procedures primarily. I believe you also rotate at the VA which seemed to be pretty low volume.

So I’m under the impression that 2021 is the first year of fellows at GW, based on the NMRP report where it lists all fellows by state and program for each year. Is that true?

Yes, this coming July will welcome the first fellows in a long time. I believe they may have had a program in the distant past.
 
Matched in last years cycle.

Between late-Jan submission and mid-June I had maybe 6 invites. I got 8 more from the end of June until mid August.

relax.
 
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Matched in last years cycle.

Between late-Jan submission and mid-June I had maybe 6 invites. I got 8 more from the end of June until mid August.

relax.

Wow! Thank you for the distant hope of more invites.

Question, did the 8 II later in the year come from programs that had previously sent out invites and you were part of "second wave" or were they programs that had not sent out any interviews prior to you getting one?
 
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For those who interviewed at UC Davis already, what time did the interview day start and end?
8 am - 1 pm pacific time for mine. They were super punctual. There was down time built in to the schedule so that if virtual platform delays occurred there would be time for trouble shooting m. Definitely watch the PD video about their interview format before you interview. It was a helpful guide to the interview style they use.
 
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Does this year seem unexpectedly leaner in terms of invites? I was seriously expecting more than 4 by now

Definitely seems like feast or famine. Zoom absolutely has made a huge change on things. Applicants who get more interviews are able to go to almost all of them (residency work schedule permitting) as what used to be a minimum 1 day commitment (and oftentimes 1.5-2 days) now just takes a matter of hours. Given that each interview you do provides another level of security to ensuring you match, those with many invites are incentivized to do all of them that they can. And with no longer having to travel and do things in person, folks don't have to turn down as many invites. You can do 3 interviews in 2 days. You can work a night shift, interview in the morning right after, then go back in for your next night shift without having to take a day off. It's a whole different ballgame.
 
Definitely seems like feast or famine. Zoom absolutely has made a huge change on things. Applicants who get more interviews are able to go to almost all of them (residency work schedule permitting) as what used to be a minimum 1 day commitment (and oftentimes 1.5-2 days) now just takes a matter of hours. Given that each interview you do provides another level of security to ensuring you match, those with many invites are incentivized to do all of them that they can. And with no longer having to travel and do things in person, folks don't have to turn down as many invites. You can do 3 interviews in 2 days. You can work a night shift, interview in the morning right after, then go back in for your next night shift without having to take a day off. It's a whole different ballgame.

This assumes these individuals have unlimited vacation days/conference days to use/energy to attend. Sure way to burn out during the interview process. To lighten the mood a little, I had no idea my Hinge facetime dates would prepare me so well for the onslaught of quick meetings/questionings.
 
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This assumes these individuals have unlimited vacation days/conference days to use/energy to attend. Sure way to burn out during the interview process. To lighten the mood a little, I had no idea my Hinge facetime dates would prepare me so well for the onslaught of quick meetings/questionings.

It just takes a little scheduling luck. A vacation week well-planned months ago here, an ICU schedule where you can trade off days with another person there, etc is all it takes. I've only got a small handful of allowed days of from my program, and only have had to use 1 of those for my 9. On a lighter note as well, I'm apparently a dinosaur now because I had to Google what Hinge was lol.
 
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Last year we were all virtual, as well, and people (including myself) definitely canceled interviews. It's still quite early. I think programs are smart enough and send II's accordingly. Having 50% of applicants hoard all of interviews benefits neither the applicants nor the programs.
 
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part of the issue is the increased numbers of people from all these random specialties that arent Anesthesiology applying to anesthesia dept-based Pain fellowships
 
part of the issue is the increased numbers of people from all these random specialties that arent Anesthesiology applying to anesthesia dept-based Pain fellowships


Well it's the anesthesia department based pain fellowships that are extending offers to the non-anesthesia applicants. You can't blame the applicants, especially when programs have interest in non-anesthesia applicants over the anesthesia applicants.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game"
 
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I originally was going to bite my tongue since I did not want to risk doxxing myself, but I feel obligated to say something in light of all the posts about the topic on here. As someone who has received >25 II's, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have cancelled and will continue cancelling interviews. I have a certain number in mind that I would like to take. Beyond that, I have been cancelling a number of them as "more desirable" interviews come in to replace ones I am less interested in. Having been on a decent number of interviews already though, there definitely are 10-15 candidates that I have seen at 3+ interview days. If they are anything like me, they probably are approaching this with a similar mindset.

To provide a little more transparency, I may not be as interested in X University, but earlier on in the cycle (in March when you're invited) when you have <10 interviews, it makes sense to schedule/attend the interview in April. It makes sense from a numbers perspective as well as just a way of shaking rust off our interviewing skills. Thus, I imagine other candidates like me chose to also attend that interview even though later on in the cycle (as we get more invites through April and May), we probably would have foregone that interview. But now that it's further into the interview season, I'm much more selective with which new interviews I am willing to take. This being said, I did strategically try to schedule interviews for less desirable programs (to me personally) for later dates when this was a possibility (meanwhile hoping to get II's to places I was more interested in). This allowed/allows me to avoid attending interviews to programs where I believe there is strong possibility I would potentially cancel somewhere down the road.

I think to some extent, programs do have an idea which candidates are more likely to attend. For example, some places that I have strong geographical ties to chose not to grant me an interview (and that is completely within their prerogative). But for better or worse, I think some programs do not have that same insight and will offer any qualified candidate they want at their program an interview invite, very dependent on PD.

I hope this provided more clarity to the situation. Everyone has valid points, particularly with interviews just being easier to take in general. There is less of a financial and time commitment, so I do not envy the programs' job this year of trying to sort through all the applicants. Anyway, I've always been a data-driven person, so I unironically point to the data from Thalamus and the residency match in 2020: 2020 Residency Recruitment Crisis? Data says, Not so much. – Thalamus

Obviously, fellowship may be different, I could not say exactly. Regardless, best of luck to everyone, and I hope some of the interviews I cancel fall to one of you.
 
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I originally was going to bite my tongue since I did not want to risk doxxing myself, but I feel obligated to say something in light of all the posts about the topic on here. As someone who has received >25 II's, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have cancelled and will continue cancelling interviews. I have a certain number in mind that I would like to take. Beyond that, I have been cancelling a number of them as "more desirable" interviews come in to replace ones I am less interested in. Having been on a decent number of interviews already though, there definitely are 10-15 candidates that I have seen at 3+ interview days. If they are anything like me, they probably are approaching this with a similar mindset.

To provide a little more transparency, I may not be as interested in X University, but earlier on in the cycle (in March when you're invited) when you have <10 interviews, it makes sense to schedule/attend the interview in April. It makes sense from a numbers perspective as well as just a way of shaking rust off our interviewing skills. Thus, I imagine other candidates like me chose to also attend that interview even though later on in the cycle (as we get more invites through April and May), we probably would have foregone that interview. But now that it's further into the interview season, I'm much more selective with which new interviews I am willing to take. This being said, I did strategically try to schedule interviews for less desirable programs (to me personally) for later dates when this was a possibility (meanwhile hoping to get II's to places I was more interested in). This allowed/allows me to avoid attending interviews to programs where I believe there is strong possibility I would potentially cancel somewhere down the road.

I think to some extent, programs do have an idea which candidates are more likely to attend. For example, some places that I have strong geographical ties to chose not to grant me an interview (and that is completely within their prerogative). But for better or worse, I think some programs do not have that same insight and will offer any qualified candidate they want at their program an interview invite, very dependent on PD.

I hope this provided more clarity to the situation. Everyone has valid points, particularly with interviews just being easier to take in general. There is less of a financial and time commitment, so I do not envy the programs' job this year of trying to sort through all the applicants. Anyway, I've always been a data-driven person, so I unironically point to the data from Thalamus and the residency match in 2020: 2020 Residency Recruitment Crisis? Data says, Not so much. – Thalamus

Obviously, fellowship may be different, I could not say exactly. Regardless, best of luck to everyone, and I hope some of the interviews I cancel fall to one of you.
Just tagging along to say I agree with everything said above. I have a target number of interviews in mind and I'm canceling interviews as able. I doubt anyone wants to spend any more of their free time interviewing once they reach their number.
 
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It just takes a little scheduling luck. A vacation week well-planned months ago here, an ICU schedule where you can trade off days with another person there, etc is all it takes. I've only got a small handful of allowed days of from my program, and only have had to use 1 of those for my 9. On a lighter note as well, I'm apparently a dinosaur now because I had to Google what Hinge was lol.
I’m elderly too it seems haha didn’t know what it was either
 
For those who are interviewing at VA Greater Los Angeles on 5/18, did y'all get any info yet? The person that called said that they would be sending an email on 5/11 but I haven't gotten anything yet.
 
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