[2017-2018] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

[green lantern]

If the email didn't specify how to dress for the pre interview dinner do you assume business casual? This dinner is at a pizza place so I feel like it's a bit much, but don't want to be underdressed.

#theimportantthings

Most of mine were low key. Nice jeans and dress shirt and sweater have been the norm. Some wear khakis others dress pants. All in all I don't think it matters. Most EM residents don't care what you wear it seems like.

Sent from my SM-G386T using SDN mobile

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[green lantern]

DO student - 75 apps - 240s/250s steps, Honors 2 EM rotations - sitting at 5 interviews/1 waitlist/6 rejections?

All acgme or AOA? I have 7 and have lower stats than yours but most my II were from aways and AOA. Only one is purely acgme.

Sent from my SM-G386T using SDN mobile

 

[Batman&Robbins]

DO student - 75 apps - 240s/250s steps, Honors 2 EM rotations - sitting at 5 interviews/1 waitlist/6 rejections?

In a similar position, so frustrating. Know MD applicants with scores 20 pts less and twice the number of invites. The bias really hurts.

 

[green lantern]

Honestly it feel like a huge game. I don't know what programs look for in applications or how they filter all of us but it is very frustrating when you have similar stats and other students have twice as many II.

Sent from my SM-G386T using SDN mobile

 

[DontstrainonMe]

All acgme or AOA? I have 7 and have lower stats than yours but most my II were from aways and AOA. Only one is purely acgme.

Sent from my SM-G386T using SDN mobile

All ACGME- not doing AOA because most EM spots switched to ACGME anyway but thought I worked hard enough and invested in the apps enough that I would be in a better spot Still grateful the II's i have but I want to preferably hit 9-10 to get a better percentage of matching.

 

[green lantern]

All ACGME- not doing AOA because most EM spots switched to ACGME anyway but thought I worked hard enough and invested in the apps enough that I would be in a better spot Still grateful the II's i have but I want to preferably hit 9-10 to get a better percentage of matching.

Understandable. I did both because I wouldn't know who I would get invites from

Sent from my SM-G386T using SDN mobile

 

[DontstrainonMe]

Understandable. I did both because I wouldn't know who I would get invites from

Sent from my SM-G386T using SDN mobile

Might be too late for me to do it I'd say/ Wish both of us the best of luck come match day.

 

[Batman&Robbins]

Might be too late for me to do it I'd say/ Wish both of us the best of luck come match day.

Didn't throw any AOA in either because I thought my app was strong enough not to need it. Regretting that now sitting at 3 interviews.

 

[DontstrainonMe]

Didn't throw any AOA in either because I thought my app was strong enough not to need it. Regretting that now sitting at 3 interviews.

where do we go from here is the question?

 

[Status Sciaticus]

where do we go from here is the question?

Sending some LOIs to your safety schools might help.

 

[green lantern]

Might be too late for me to do it I'd say/ Wish both of us the best of luck come match day.

Numbers wise I think 5-6 does have a decent chance to still match maybe 60 percent. I know people who ranked two places and matched and you are sitting at better spot then others out there.

Sent from my SM-G386T using SDN mobile

 

[jw3600]

DO student - 75 apps - 240s/250s steps, Honors 2 EM rotations - sitting at 5 interviews/1 waitlist/6 rejections?

Are the EM rotations you honored ACGME EM clerkships?

 

[flyingdonut]

Is there any point in applying to more programs at this point? There are some additional geographic areas I've become interested in mostly for family reasons, but not something compelling enough to write to PDs about at this point.

 

[alpinism]

Its too late to add programs now unless they're new and just got accredited this cycle.

Regardless If you're sitting on 5+ interviews at this point you can probably expect at least 10+ total since you'll likely get some with the second wave in November.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If the email didn't specify how to dress for the pre interview dinner do you assume business casual? This dinner is at a pizza place so I feel like it's a bit much, but don't want to be underdressed.

#theimportantthings

Business casual

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Know MD applicants with scores 20 pts less and twice the number of invites. The bias really hurts.

The issue is that everyone here compares their step scores, and assume that's what matters when it comes to the match. You compare your 240 to someone else 240 who has 10 interviews and assume that you should have 10. But it just doesn't work that way. The board scores may help a program filter down their applicant list, but they don't net you interviews. SLOEs do. Its ALWAYS about the SLOEs. Because that's the one area of the app you can't see, and can't compare to others, yet the #1 thing PDs/APDs look at when deciding who to interview. I'm not discounting DO bias, I'm just saying that its not a simple as saying I got a 240, and I'm not sitting on enough interviews, therefore its because of bias. I know tons of DO students sitting on a really good number of interviews with scores that aren't nearly that good. Because it isn't about the board scores, and we need to stop perpetuating that myth. Your chances of getting interviews and matching in EM will live and die with what is written on your SLOEs. Sure, if you fail your boards, or score really really low, it hurts you. But for the majority of applicants, their board scores won't make a difference on their chances to match EM. They will match, or won't match, based on their SLOEs.

 

[DontstrainonMe]

Are the EM rotations you honored ACGME EM clerkships?

Both ACGME. I applied mostly Northeast so that definitely did not help my #'s. I should of diversified my application process and hence I probably shot myself in the foot.

 

[jw3600]

Both ACGME. I applied mostly Northeast so that definitely did not help my #'s. I should of diversified my application process and hence I probably shot myself in the foot.

Still surprsing. There's a ton of less than competitive programs in NJ, NY, PA.

 

[Vivienne]

Has anyone had any luck emailing programs to get off a waitlist if everything is filled in Interview Broker?

 

[doggydog]

Has anyone had any luck emailing programs to get off a waitlist if everything is filled in Interview Broker?

What do you want them to do? Reject someone that is already scheduled to interview?

 

[Vivienne]

What do you want them to do? Reject someone that is already scheduled to interview?

My friend applying to medicine emailed a program that was full and they added an extra spot for him, but I don’t know if that’s a common thing to do.

 

[EMkid]

So I'm a US allopathic student with mid 220's Step 1 mid 230's Step 2 and S+ in both EM rotations. I have 6 interviews at this point (1 from home program), 1 waitlist and 10+ denials. Is it true that there is a second wave of interview invites in November??

 

[doggydog]

So I'm a US allopathic student with mid 220's Step 1 mid 230's Step 2 and S+ in both EM rotations. I have 6 interviews at this point (1 from home program), 1 waitlist and 10+ denials. Is it true that there is a second wave of interview invites in November??

There is no such thing as a true 'second wave'. I don't know where that comes from. Invites will trickle in. I probably got four or five new invites from November 1st to early January.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

There is no such thing as a true 'second wave'. I don't know where that comes from. Invites will trickle in. I probably got four or five new invites from November 1st to early January.

That’s a better way of putting it.

There’s the initial wave, there certainly isnt a week where programs all sit down and say lets send out the next 40 interviews. Its a slow process of going through apps, approving them for interviews, seeing the candidate wants the interview, etc. I probably look at 5 apps a day or so after the initial round of invites to fill the rest of the interview schedule.

 

[EM2018orBUST]

This might be a dumb question, but do all residencies provide basically the same level of health insurance coverage? Or is this something I should research and there could be substantial differences between programs?

 

[Jabbed]

This might be a dumb question, but do all residencies provide basically the same level of health insurance coverage? Or is this something I should research and there could be substantial differences between programs?

Substantial differences from what I've seen.

 

[kenjixshadow]

k

 

[Jabbed]

I'm not sure if this will help, but my friend was at ACEP earlier this week. Multiple PDs have told him that top applicants are holding onto multiple interviews right now and they are expecting some cancellations in the next few weeks -> perhaps you'll get the "second wave" that you are waiting for.

#TheCakeIsALie

 

[theSmurfette]

Thoughts on bringing your family to your home program’s interview dinner? 3 kids, 3, 9 & 12. I would like my husband to come but don’t have anyone to watch the kids.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[doggydog]

Thoughts on bringing your family to your home program’s interview dinner? 3 kids, 3, 9 & 12. I would like my husband to come but don’t have anyone to watch the kids.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This sucks to hear but I wouldn't. It's hard to interact with people and learn about the program if you have three kids wandering around.

 

[theSmurfette]

This sucks to hear but I wouldn't. It's hard to interact with people and learn about the program if you have three kids wandering around.

I didn’t think it would be appropriate. Figured it wouldn’t hurt to ask. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DO class of 2018]

Anyone have their own spreadsheet or something similar they'd like to share to evaluate programs as they're interviewing?

 

[EM2018orBUST]

Just got a sloe from a rotation I did in California. I’m originally from the area but am in school in a different state. I just assigned it to all the programs on the west coast I don’t have an interview from. Is it worth sending an email indicating I have an update? I don’t know how easily programs can tell I have new documentation. I don’t think it’s necessary to bump it up to an LOI as I’ve already sent one to the programs I really care about. I have enough interviews at this point to probably match west coast but I definitely wouldn’t turn down more.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I just assigned it to all the programs on the west coast I don’t have an interview from. Is it worth sending an email indicating I have an update? I don’t know how easily programs can tell I have new documentation. I don’t think it’s necessary to bump it up to an LOI as I’ve already sent one to the programs I really care about. I have enough interviews at this point to probably match west coast but I definitely wouldn’t turn down more.

If you want more, then send out more emails. Programs aren't likely going to keep going back and checking for new SLOEs on hundreds and hundreds of applicants.

 

[chillaxbro]

How much does the interview dinner factor in when programs rank applicants? Is it only if the person is actively hostile, racist, abrasive, obnoxious etc when it matters and they go out of their way to tell the program directors? What if the person is just sort of quiet or boring or a dud personality?

 

[sfwtboy]

How much does the interview dinner factor in when programs rank applicants? Is it only if the person is actively hostile, racist, abrasive, obnoxious etc when it matters and they go out of their way to tell the program directors? What if the person is just sort of quiet or boring or a dud personality?

My guess is that it's very similar to personal statements. Helps some, hurts others, and in general doesn't mean too much for the vast majority of applications. The point of going is to see if YOU like these people and could be their co-worker.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

My guess is that it's very similar to personal statements. Helps some, hurts others, and in general doesn't mean too much for the vast majority of applications. The point of going is to see if YOU like these people and could be their co-worker.

Exactly. The dinner isn't part of the interview, but if you say or do something terribly unprofessional, it will get back to the program leadership. Be an adult professional. And for people that really click, sure the residents are going to give positive feedback and that helps. But its not the interview, so don't sweat it. It's unlikely to make any bearing on your rank, unless you do or say something really foolish.

 

[TrailRun]

So... It's mid November - safe to say few to no more interview invites will be going out? I have a couple but that may be it, my app probably hurt by only having one SLOE and missing the video interview (I'm switching specialties as a resident).

 

[gamerEMdoc]

So... It's mid November - safe to say few to no more interview invites will be going out? I have a couple but that may be it, my app probably hurt by only having one SLOE and missing the video interview (I'm switching specialties as a resident).

Maybe an interview here and there with cancellations, but I'd imagine the bulk of places are mostly scheduled out to the end at this point.

I doubt missing the SVI made any difference. 1 SLOE, especially if it was mediocre or worse, is probably what would have hurt the most I'd imagine.

 

[BADMD]

So... It's mid November - safe to say few to no more interview invites will be going out? I have a couple but that may be it, my app probably hurt by only having one SLOE and missing the video interview (I'm switching specialties as a resident).

Can't speak for other programs, but we usually get a few cancelations in late December and early January. You have to be ready to move on those, as the slots won't stay open long.

 

[Whoswatchingthewatchers]

So for those of us with 6 interviews how concerned do I need to be? I figured I would pick up 1 or 2 more and was pretty content until I came on SDN

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

@gamerEMdoc is there a "Golden number" of interviews for match success? There is an implied value here that the applicant doesn't show up and make a fool of themselves / act like a complete jerk at the interview, lol.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

There is no golden number. There are no certainties. Someone can rank two programs and still match, and someone can rank 14 and not match. All that can be said is, statistically, once you get over a certain number of interviews, it’s very unlikely you will not match. But nothing is 100%. Over 10% has a match rate over 90%, and I’m pretty sure over 12 interviews is an almost certainty. I don’t remember the exact statistics off hand. But statistics are population trends, and each Individual application is different.

Take two examples:

Example one: aoa student Who doesn’t take the USMLE. Comlex scores are in the 400s. Student has trouble setting up rotations at residency programs, because of their low board scores. Gets two rotations at noncompetitive sites, and does extremely well with on those rotstions, and nets two top-tier slows of those two programs. When the time comes for interviews, the student gets very few interviews because of the board scores getting filtered out. Gets 4 interviews total including the two places that loved the student during their rotation.

Example two: M.D. student with step scores in the 270s, secures numerous rotations are very competitive programs Thanks to their high board scores. Gets to middle third slows at the very competitive programs. When it comes time for interviews, still gets 12 interviews thanks to their scores. A third sloe is posted mid interview season, low 1/3 or DNR with some damning comment.

Student one only has four interviews compared to student two who has 12. Yet I would argue that student one has a far greater chance of matching, because student one was loved by two of the programs they rotated at who were going to rank them highly. Student two was going to be in the middle third of lists, which is typically fine, but their match stock would potentially fall greatly thanks to that last sloe.

My point is, there are no certainties. You can rank 1 Program and match, and you can rank 15 and not match. The statistical likelihood of either of those happening is unlikely, but they can happen.

All you can do is go on as many interviews as you can, within reason. Then roll the dice and see how they fall.

 

[alpinism]

Usually you want to aim for 12 interviews since after 12 statistically speaking there is no benefit to ranking more programs.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Found it. See the attached file. Page 57, its specific to EM, graph of match percentage by number of programs a student ranks.

10 ranked programs is about 95% chance of match. 12 is 99% and after that it basically levels off.

The interesting thing is, the match chances are higher than you'd still expect with a lower number of interviews. 45% with ranking two places? 85% with ranking 7. Point is, while everyone wants to get to 12 I'm sure, don't completely freak out if you don't. If you are on the low end, you should have a backup plan, but you still have a decent chance.

 

[Jabbed]

Usually you want to aim for 12 interviews since after 12 statistically speaking there is no benefit to ranking more programs.

I don't think that one statistic can exactly encapsulate the whole algorithm.

Candidate 1 applies to every program and gets 12 interview offers and attends all 12.
Candidate 2 applies to 20 programs, gets 20 offers, and attends 10 interviews.

Who is more likely to match to their top choice? Who is more likely to go unmatched?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I don't think that one statistic can exactly encapsulate the whole algorithm.

Candidate 1 applies to every program and gets 12 interview offers and attends all 12.
Candidate 2 applies to 20 programs, gets 20 offers, and attends 10 interviews.

Who is more likely to match to their top choice? Who is more likely to go unmatched?

Which is why I posted what I said before, though my example was more extreme. You can't look at statistical trends and apply them to an individual case. I've known candidates with few interviews who I knew with certainty would match, because I can see behind the scenes when I interview them and look at their app by seeing their SLOEs. When you know what the SLOEs say, assuming the place is being truthful when they write them, then you know which candidates are going to be ranked really highly at a given program. So even when a candidate only has a small # of interviews, when you see a SLOE from a place stating they are gonna rank them right near the top of their list, then its nearly a certainty that at the very least, that candidate will match at least at that program. And I know where my program is ranking people. So again, if someone is in our top 15 or so, certainly the top 8 (since there is 8 spots), you know for a fact that its impossible for that person not to match, no matter how few interviews they have.

Ideally every student would have a "safety" program, whether its their first choice or last choice on their list, a place they are all but guaranteed to match at, because they had such a great interview or rotation there. I realize this isn't the case with everyone, but it would be ideal if as many people had a place like this on their list. Because after that, the number you need to rank becomes more about how many places you actually want to interview, and less about how many places you feel like you HAVE TO interview at.

 

[EM2018orBUST]

It's interesting how the chat sheet on the google doc has completely replaced this thread to the point that people won't post in it for weeks at a time.

 

[surely]

It's interesting how the chat sheet on the google doc has completely replaced this thread to the point that people won't post in it for weeks at a time.

Don't remind me

 

[FutureDoc_OC]

Can people update where they got interviews at....I don't think its been updated in awhile