10 Med Schools and 3 SMPs Can't Tell Me What To Do...DO I GO TO SMP? Help Please

[MDforMee]

My academic background is VERY unique.

Please read the following and tell me what you'd do if you were me, as far as attending an SMP, or not.

I want to become an MD, and will not be applying to DO schools. Also, I'd preferably like to stay in California, since I get free tuition at public California universities due to veteran's benefits.

See my MD Apps for extracurricular info.

My background is this:
1. First 2 years in school: moved between 5 community colleges, several medical problems that led to straight F's and D's due to missing finals/midterms, assorted C's and W's. The worst possible grades. However, the grades were in easy liberal arts classes.

2. 2004-2006:
Straight A's in nursing school prerequisites (Anatomy and physiology, microbio, chemistry, assorted humanities/social sciences)
4.0 GPA in 53 units

3. 2006-2007:
Straight A's in first two semesters of baccalaureate Nursing program, followed by a single C- and a B in the first semester of the second year due to medical reasons (missed clinical days).
3.34 GPA in 22 units, 3.82 GPA in 17 units without C- calculated.

4. 2008-2010:
Returned to community college, took General Chem (A and B), Organic Chem (A's), intro to physics (A), english (A), humanities (A), Pre-Calc (B), Calc I (A), Calc II (B)
3.69 GPA in 42 units

5. 2010-Present:
Transferred to UCLA, finished all medical school prerequisites, now into my Senior year for Biochemistry B.S. A's in hard classes like Biochemistry, Physical Chemistry, but got a single C+ in Molecular Biology due to medical reasons. A in life sciences, B+ in intermediate inorganic chem, A- in biomedical research, B+ in Calc III, B- in genetics, B's in all physics classes. I have 30 units left, which I expect to get at least a 3.7. This should bring my cumulative UCLA GPA to 3.4-3.5 by graduation in the Spring.
3.3 GPA in 56 units

Since 2004, I've had a 3.6 cumulative GPA, but due to my first few years in school, my actual cumulative GPA is a 3.03.

I scored a 12/8/10 R (PS/VR/BS) for a 30R on the MCAT, and I didn't study for the verbal reasoning section due to having a job. I know that I can score higher in the VR section, but don't know if I should retake the MCAT, or not. I'm very confident in PS and BS, in fact, my actual BS was 2 points lower than my practice scores.

So far, no medical school that I've talked to, and no SMP that I've talked to, can give me a straight answer about what to do.

What say you??

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[red doctober]

I'll bite.

You certainly do have a unique story.

Looking over everything, this is what I see:
++ military service
++ lots of clinical experience
+ good amount of volunteering
+ job
+ some leadership experience
+/- 3.6 GPA since 2004 (would be +, but much is attributed to CC)
+/- ok MCAT
+/- 3.4 - 3.5 UCLA GPA (i.e. not showing strong evidence of turning academics around)
- low verbal
- no research
- no community service
- - terrible CC grades

You have a lot of good things about your app. Military service is looked highly upon. You seem to have a good amount of clinical experience and volunteering, although some community service would make your ECs shine. Unfortunately, your CC pre-2004 grades may scare a lot of medical schools away especially given that your academics since have not be so stellar. Counting out pre-2004, your academics are already below average for CA schools.

Doing well at an SMP with a good track record, Georgetown or Tufts for example, would do wonders for you app. Unfortunately these are expensive, and to do well, you probably shouldn't be working a whole lot while enrolled in them. It's sort of a risk: do well and you're golden, do poorly and you may never get into an MD program, and not to mention get stuck with a $50K worthless degree. It's a shame that you aren't willing to go DO because they practice grade replacement, which could wipe out much of your pre-2004 stuff. I highly recommend that you at least think a little about it.

 

[MDforMee]

I'll bite.

You certainly do have a unique story.

Looking over everything, this is what I see:
++ military service
++ lots of clinical experience
+ good amount of volunteering
+ job
+ some leadership experience
+/- 3.6 GPA since 2004 (would be +, but much is attributed to CC)
+/- ok MCAT
+/- 3.4 - 3.5 UCLA GPA (i.e. not showing strong evidence of turning academics around)
- low verbal
- no research
- no community service
- - terrible CC grades

You have a lot of good things about your app. Military service is looked highly upon. You seem to have a good amount of clinical experience and volunteering, although some community service would make your ECs shine. Unfortunately, your CC pre-2004 grades may scare a lot of medical schools away especially given that your academics since have not be so stellar. Counting out pre-2004, your academics are already below average for CA schools.

Doing well at an SMP with a good track record, Georgetown or Tufts for example, would do wonders for you app. Unfortunately these are expensive, and to do well, you probably shouldn't be working a whole lot while enrolled in them. It's sort of a risk: do well and you're golden, do poorly and you may never get into an MD program, and not to mention get stuck with a $50K worthless degree. It's a shame that you aren't willing to go DO because they practice grade replacement, which could wipe out much of your pre-2004 stuff. I highly recommend that you at least think a little about it.

Thanks for the reply, but to make a correction, I have no military experience. The tuition benefits are from an injury my dad had in the service (permanent disability).

Also, I do have research experience; biomedical research course (honors), as well as honors courses in organic, inorganic, physics, along with graduate courses in genomics and molecular bio that all involved research and research presentations with lab time (unsupervised).

I blame my lowish UCLA gpa on having to work and being heavily involved in sports.

 

[red doctober]

Thanks for the reply, but to make a correction, I have no military experience. The tuition benefits are from an injury my dad had in the service (permanent disability).

Also, I do have research experience; biomedical research course (honors), as well as honors courses in organic, inorganic, physics, along with graduate courses in genomics and molecular bio that all involved research and research presentations with lab time (unsupervised).

I blame my lowish UCLA gpa on having to work and being heavily involved in sports.

Are you thinking about applying to MD programs this cycle or next, or have you already submitted? Your research experience is better than nothing, but it would be ideal to have an independent project. Participation in sports, unless at NCAA level, is probably not something you'll want to give as an excuse. It might suggest that you take leisure ahead of academics.

 

[MDforMee]

Are you thinking about applying to MD programs this cycle or next, or have you already submitted? Your research experience is better than nothing, but it would be ideal to have an independent project. Participation in sports, unless at NCAA level, is probably not something you'll want to give as an excuse. It might suggest that you take leisure ahead of academics.

That's the thing, I'm not sure if I should apply at all next cycle. I haven't started applying, yet. I will have a glide year, or be at an SMP for the glide year. However, I don't want to be a reapplicant, so I might wait to apply until I'm almost done with the SMP.

My sports activities are competitive endurance mountain biking and kickboxing. I train 15+ hours a week. It's not NCAA, but I've been involved with it for over 10 years.

Oh, and I do have community service. I run a free website for weight loss and fitness advising, and have helped around 50 people lose weight and get into shape.

 

[red doctober]

That's the thing, I'm not sure if I should apply at all next cycle. I haven't started applying, yet. I will have a glide year, or be at an SMP for the glide year. However, I don't want to be a reapplicant, so I might wait to apply until I'm almost done with the SMP.

My sports activities are competitive endurance mountain biking and kickboxing. I train 15+ hours a week. It's not NCAA, but I've been involved with it for over 10 years.

My advice, take it as you will, would be to look at SMPs (not post bacc programs) with a proven track record. Apply now and hopefully get in for the fall of next year. At that point, you can discuss with your advisors (a decent SMP should have good ones) whether to apply in 2013 or wait another year so that you'll have your SMP grades. The thing holding you back is your academic record, and doing well in an SMP can show that you can handle the academic rigors of med school. You may want to consider retaking the MCAT, but definitely don't if you think that you've reached your threshold at 30 and can't realistically imagine getting a 33+.

Again, your sports are interesting and would be a great topic to talk about in your apps/interviews, but don't mention them as a reason why you didn't do your best in college.

 

[DrMidlife]

My academic background is VERY unique.

No, it's not. If the military service had been your military service, then it would be somewhat unique. You're in a forum where the low GPA thread has over a half million views, and you'll find lots of company there.

What say you??

Honestly, I say you're just another low GPA Californian expecting to find a guaranteed route into a UC. We see hundreds of that every year. Not kidding. We've dished out exactly the same advice to low GPA Californians for years now.

What you need to do is take charge. Stop making excuses for your low grades, figure out what you need to do next, and do it. All the info you need is in the low GPA thread, in this forum, the one with over a half million views. Many have come before you. Many will come after you. Many give up. And every year people come back and post their success stories here and in other forums. Read them. Read lots of them. Stop expecting somebody else to figure this out for you.

That said, I did write a recipe recently, which is what you seem to be looking for. Here you go: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=942893

Best of luck to you.

 

[MDforMee]

No, it's not. If the military service had been your military service, then it would be somewhat unique. You're in a forum where the low GPA thread has over a half million views, and you'll find lots of company there.

Honestly, I say you're just another low GPA Californian expecting to find a guaranteed route into a UC. We see hundreds of that every year. Not kidding. We've dished out exactly the same advice to low GPA Californians for years now.

What you need to do is take charge. Stop making excuses for your low grades, figure out what you need to do next, and do it. All the info you need is in the low GPA thread, in this forum, the one with over a half million views. Many have come before you. Many will come after you. Many give up. And every year people come back and post their success stories here and in other forums. Read them. Read lots of them. Stop expecting somebody else to figure this out for you.

That said, I did write a recipe recently, which is what you seem to be looking for. Here you go: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=942893

Best of luck to you.

Your tone is negative, and you assume that your own research mandates that others should follow your lead.

If you acted a wee bit more friendly toward people, you'd be doing a service to this board, instead of developing hostile working relationships with people.

Best of luck to you.

 

[chayo234]

Your tone is negative, and you assume that your own research mandates that others should follow your lead.

If you acted a wee bit more friendly toward people, you'd be doing a service to this board, instead of developing hostile working relationships with people.

Best of luck to you.

You really are not that unique besides working while going through school. Your grades fluctuate and you show continual medical issues. Two big red marks that you need to address somehow.

IDK what is stopping you from applying. What is wrong with being a re-applicant? Are you going to quit if you fail after 1 try? There is no guarantees with medical schools. You do what you can, with what information you have.

You should apply to both SMP and Medical school. Goo through SMP while applying and if you get in during SMP, great. If not, you will have a stronger 2nd try at applying. What is difficult?

BTW, Dr. Midlife has made some of the most helpful posts on this forum, so I think she has the service part of the board down already.

 

[DrBowtie]

You have a low GPA over a considerable amount of credits. Given that you won't apply DO, your only option really is an SMP.

Here are your options:
1) Apply as is with 3.0-3.1/30 MCAT - Odds are minimal.

2) Post Bacc would be pointless unless you were going for DO and doing grade replacement.

3) SMP - You'd have to do well in it, acceptance still not guaranteed and unlikely in CA. If you do worse, your chances worsen.

 

[MDforMee]

You really are not that unique besides working while going through school. Your grades fluctuate and you show continual medical issues. Two big red marks that you need to address somehow.

IDK what is stopping you from applying. What is wrong with being a re-applicant? Are you going to quit if you fail after 1 try? There is no guarantees with medical schools. You do what you can, with what information you have.

You should apply to both SMP and Medical school. Goo through SMP while applying and if you get in during SMP, great. If not, you will have a stronger 2nd try at applying. What is difficult?

BTW, Dr. Midlife has made some of the most helpful posts on this forum, so I think she has the service part of the board down already.

Many consider being a reapplicant a bad thing.

Of course I wouldn't quit if I'm unsuccessful the first time, but I'd like to do some preventive planning. For instance, I talked to Boston University's director of admissions for their Master of Arts in Medical Sciences program, today, about this very issue. Without going into too much detail, it was her opinion that I should go through 1 year of an SMP before applying to medical schools.

On the other hand, several schools of medicine (Loyola/Stritch, UC Irvine, etc) that I talked to said that I should apply, then explain the circumstances leading to my low GPA in a secondary application, and not "waste" money on an SMP.

At the same time, other schools of medicine (UC Davis, University of Iowa, etc) think that I should do a true SMP, and others still (George Washington, Tulane, etc) think that an altogether different kind of SMP like USC's MS in Global Medicine might be an even better fit.

Which is why I started this thread, really. There isn't a clear consensus among schools of medicine, and SMPs, that tells me exactly what I should do.

Further, when I talked to Georgetown's director of admissions, yesterday, she said that there is a large risk vs. reward with their program, and that I might be better served by a different program, which upon applying, their admissions committee will notify me of in the case that they don't believe I'm a good fit.

I also agree that Dr. Midlife does a lot of good work on this board, but honestly, her attitude can be pretty bad, sometimes. Believe it or not, I've been around here since 2006 or so, and I've seen her in many cases behave similarly. Her work/research is oftentimes negated by the way she conveys her opinions to people. My opinion that I gave her is an honest one.

 

[MDforMee]

You have a low GPA over a considerable amount of credits. Given that you won't apply DO, your only option really is an SMP.

Here are your options:
1) Apply as is with 3.0-3.1/30 MCAT - Odds are minimal.

2) Post Bacc would be pointless unless you were going for DO and doing grade replacement.

3) SMP - You'd have to do well in it, acceptance still not guaranteed and unlikely in CA. If you do worse, your chances worsen.

Points noted

On the topic of acceptance to a California medical school (UC), here is a post about that which scares me:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12464608&postcount=106

"There's no sugarcoating the reality that there is no SMP in existence that gives you a noticeably large benefit in getting into UCs. Basically if you're a california resident, unless your stats are stellar, you won't get into a UC no matter which SMP you go into. I didn't even apply to UCs for that exact reason.

Since this has not been emphasized, if you are a california resident, very improbable chance that you will not get into a UC unless you came with decently competitive uGPA AND you are in the 3.9+ gpa in the class AND get a 36+ on your mcat. This is a combination of too many students and not enough seats in Cali. EXPECT to end up in an OOS school for medicine."

... Which is another reason I started this thread. I'm hoping that I might be able to give some guidance to other California residents in similar situations.

 

[giants25]

It seems like you took all your premed requirements at a community college. I'm pretty sure most medical schools frown upon taking those courses at CC. Some may require you to take it at a 4 year university.

 

[red doctober]

I don't think an MPH or MS in global health is going to do you much good. You need to demonstrate that you can handle the science-heavy curriculum of medical school and pass the USMLE. I get your desire to go to a UC, but at this point your goal is to get into any medical school. Someone once said cleverly on this forum that I think applies nicely here: "It's a buyers market, and you ain't buying."

I also think the whole 3.9+ 36+ to get into any UC medical school is quite the exaggeration. Just get a copy of MSAR for the facts.

 

[MDforMee]

It seems like you took all your premed requirements at a community college. I'm pretty sure most medical schools frown upon taking those courses at CC. Some may require you to take it at a 4 year university.

There's no way around that. I had to in order to transfer to a UC. I still transferred without physics and the life sciences sequence, which wasn't recommended, but I did so that not all my prereqs would be at the community college.

In any case, you'll find that many don't see a problem with doing prereqs at a community college; in my case, also, it is worth noting that they give us a nationally standardized subject test in general chemistry and organic chemistry for our finals, and I scored >95% in the nation on both.

You'll notice that I also didn't major in liberal arts. I'm in Biochemistry, and taking hard upper division courses, only.

 

[MDforMee]

I don't think an MPH or MS in global health is going to do you much good. You need to demonstrate that you can handle the science-heavy curriculum of medical school and pass the USMLE. I get your desire to go to a UC, but at this point your goal is to get into any medical school. Someone once said cleverly on this forum that I think applies nicely here: "It's a buyers market, and you ain't buying."

I also think the whole 3.9+ 36+ to get into any UC medical school is quite the exaggeration. Just get a copy of MSAR for the facts.

I talked to the director of admissions for the UC Davis School of Medicine, for the second time (I know him personally from my work at the community college level, where he is involved in community college outreach), and he thinks that I should do a true SMP.

I think that the greatest chance at gaining an allopathic acceptance is through an SMP, especially if that allopathic acceptance is in California.

Which is another thing I'm concerned about; I spoke with the U of Cincinnati SMP admissions director, today, and if I can get in state residency in Ohio, that may be an extra incentive to attend their SMP. Further, they have a pretty decent linkage with the U of C school of medicine.

I now suspect that I will be attending an SMP, the question is which one? As a California resident with my stats, will the U of Cincinnati be a better program than one of the SMPs on the East Coast, such as Tufts of Georgetown, simply based on the fact that I'm a California resident?

So far, my research is split between attending an East Coast SMP and going to U of Cincinnati, since, as a California resident, I need to consider that I may not have a home state advantage, and instead, may have to apply broadly; be that as it may, applying broadly will mean going to an SMP with a good reputation, so the question then becomes, Geogretown, Tufts, Boston University, or U of Cincinnati? Or, should I choose an SMP with a strong linkage? U of Toledo, Rosalind Franklin, U of Cincinnati, etc.?

Well, thanks guys, for helping me with this question.

It's too bad that the question was answered with a new question, though.

 

[chayo234]

I talked to the director of admissions for the UC Davis School of Medicine, for the second time (I know him personally from my work at the community college level, where he is involved in community college outreach), and he thinks that I should do a true SMP.

I think that the greatest chance at gaining an allopathic acceptance is through an SMP, especially if that allopathic acceptance is in California.

Which is another thing I'm concerned about; I spoke with the U of Cincinnati SMP admissions director, today, and if I can get in state residency in Ohio, that may be an extra incentive to attend their SMP. Further, they have a pretty decent linkage with the U of C school of medicine.

I now suspect that I will be attending an SMP, the question is which one? As a California resident with my stats, will the U of Cincinnati be a better program than one of the SMPs on the East Coast, such as Tufts of Georgetown, simply based on the fact that I'm a California resident?

So far, my research is split between attending an East Coast SMP and going to U of Cincinnati, since, as a California resident, I need to consider that I may not have a home state advantage, and instead, may have to apply broadly; be that as it may, applying broadly will mean going to an SMP with a good reputation, so the question then becomes, Geogretown, Tufts, Boston University, or U of Cincinnati? Or, should I choose an SMP with a strong linkage? U of Toledo, Rosalind Franklin, U of Cincinnati, etc.?

Well, thanks guys, for helping me with this question.

It's too bad that the question was answered with a new question, though.

Pick and choose after you get in would be a smart decision. Many of the ones you listed do not take cGPA anywhere near a 3.0

 

[MDforMee]

Pick and choose after you get in would be a smart decision. Many of the ones you listed do not take cGPA anywhere near a 3.0

Be that as it may, I'm not too worried.

If they choose to hold my first years grades against me, they can keep their smp all to themselves.

I've paid for my mistakes and then some, and sacrificed a lot to be here.

 

[deleted248403]

Be that as it may, I'm not too worried.

If they choose to hold my first years grades against me, they can keep their smp all to themselves.

I've paid for my mistakes and then some, and sacrificed a lot to be here.

And none of that means you should be in med school or in an SMP. You need an attitude adjustment

 

[MDforMee]

And none of that means you should be in med school or in an SMP. You need an attitude adjustment

It's too bad that SDN has people like you on it; you contribute nothing, and try to bring people down. Go back to wherever it is that you came from.

On that note, and in the interest of my thread, I want to make something clear: The reasons I had for low grades during my first years in college were unique to me, and me alone. I've shown that I can succeed in hard sciences, and the medical environment. Effectively, the only flaw in my entire application would be my first years in college.

In that way, I'm an ideal candidate for a medical school that actually reads my application portfolio. If SMPs, or med schools, want to deny admission to me based on the fact that my first years in school were subpar, I wouldn't want anything to do with them in the first place. They'd be doing me a favor by denying me if that's the way that they think.

There comes a time and a place where you have to stand up for yourself, and not be held captive by whatever it is in your past that prevented you from doing your best. The lettering of title 5 in the educational code states exactly that, in fact. It's something along the lines of "... past academic performance not being indicative of someone's academic potential, that might prevent them from achieving a goal they've worked to achieve..." and so on and so forth.

THAT should be the attitude WE see here on the post-baccalaureate forum. We all have made mistakes, some more costly than others, but the POINT OF AN SMP is TO SHOW MEDICAL SCHOOLS THAT WE CAN BE SUCCESSFUL. YOU can start choosing to model SUCCESSFUL thinking whenever YOU want.

No one gains anything by playing a subservient, apologetic wimp that's begging for acceptance somewhere. I'm not starting now. I've been through years and years of misery to get here, and I'm not bowing down to some worthless admissions committee that thinks my semester of F's in liberal arts general ed at a community college 10 years ago defines me as a person, now.

Take that and choke on it. Then force feed yourself the parts that you couldn't choke down.

 

[petyr_baelish]

MDforMee,

In terms of your actual stats, I do not see how you are much different than many others who have posted here. That is a good thing because it means that with good stats in an SMP, you will get in. Your road may be on the longer side in total, but you don't have much further to go, so don't worry about the past and I wish you all the best.

I think the problem is that you are coming across in an entitled manner, whether or not you intend to. In my experience, entitlement begets a reality check on these boards.

Medicine is a road of compromise but for the very best applicants at every stage. At first, at least to me, you came across like you would not compromise.

 

[deleted248403]

It's too bad that SDN has people like you on it; you contribute nothing, and try to bring people down. Go back to wherever it is that you came from.

On that note, and in the interest of my thread, I want to make something clear: The reasons I had for low grades during my first years in college were unique to me, and me alone. I've shown that I can succeed in hard sciences, and the medical environment. Effectively, the only flaw in my entire application would be my first years in college.

In that way, I'm an ideal candidate for a medical school that actually reads my application portfolio. If SMPs, or med schools, want to deny admission to me based on the fact that my first years in school were subpar, I wouldn't want anything to do with them in the first place. They'd be doing me a favor by denying me if that's the way that they think.

There comes a time and a place where you have to stand up for yourself, and not be held captive by whatever it is in your past that prevented you from doing your best. The lettering of title 5 in the educational code states exactly that, in fact. It's something along the lines of "... past academic performance not being indicative of someone's academic potential, that might prevent them from achieving a goal they've worked to achieve..." and so on and so forth.

THAT should be the attitude WE see here on the post-baccalaureate forum. We all have made mistakes, some more costly than others, but the POINT OF AN SMP is TO SHOW MEDICAL SCHOOLS THAT WE CAN BE SUCCESSFUL. YOU can start choosing to model SUCCESSFUL thinking whenever YOU want.

No one gains anything by playing a subservient, apologetic wimp that's begging for acceptance somewhere. I'm not starting now. I've been through years and years of misery to get here, and I'm not bowing down to some worthless admissions committee that thinks my semester of F's in liberal arts general ed at a community college 10 years ago defines me as a person, now.

Take that and choke on it. Then force feed yourself the parts that you couldn't choke down.

And thats all we need to know about you. Best of luck to you

 

[pineapplepancakes]

It's too bad that SDN has people like you on it; you contribute nothing, and try to bring people down. Go back to wherever it is that you came from.

On that note, and in the interest of my thread, I want to make something clear: The reasons I had for low grades during my first years in college were unique to me, and me alone. I've shown that I can succeed in hard sciences, and the medical environment. Effectively, the only flaw in my entire application would be my first years in college.

In that way, I'm an ideal candidate for a medical school that actually reads my application portfolio. If SMPs, or med schools, want to deny admission to me based on the fact that my first years in school were subpar, I wouldn't want anything to do with them in the first place. They'd be doing me a favor by denying me if that's the way that they think.

There comes a time and a place where you have to stand up for yourself, and not be held captive by whatever it is in your past that prevented you from doing your best. The lettering of title 5 in the educational code states exactly that, in fact. It's something along the lines of "... past academic performance not being indicative of someone's academic potential, that might prevent them from achieving a goal they've worked to achieve..." and so on and so forth.

THAT should be the attitude WE see here on the post-baccalaureate forum. We all have made mistakes, some more costly than others, but the POINT OF AN SMP is TO SHOW MEDICAL SCHOOLS THAT WE CAN BE SUCCESSFUL. YOU can start choosing to model SUCCESSFUL thinking whenever YOU want.

No one gains anything by playing a subservient, apologetic wimp that's begging for acceptance somewhere. I'm not starting now. I've been through years and years of misery to get here, and I'm not bowing down to some worthless admissions committee that thinks my semester of F's in liberal arts general ed at a community college 10 years ago defines me as a person, now.

Take that and choke on it. Then force feed yourself the parts that you couldn't choke down.

Wow, so much negativity in this thread. I'm not sure why I'm still even reading it. To comment on this, I think the post-bacc forum is more often than not positive and helpful; however, people on here are not afraid to offer a dose of reality, which is a lot of the time justifiable. Just a thought.

 

[MedWonk]

In that way, I'm an ideal candidate for a medical school that actually reads my application portfolio. If SMPs, or med schools, want to deny admission to me based on the fact that my first years in school were subpar, I wouldn't want anything to do with them in the first place. They'd be doing me a favor by denying me if that's the way that they think.

I sincerely hope that isn't the attitude you'll bring with you to any interviews you get. I really don't think the "Anthony Bourdain" approach will work in any interview you get at a med school or SMP. You may have paid your dues, but you've got to convince them that in doing so you've demonstrated you can succeed in med school. It's not about what you think constitutes proof that you can succeed, it's about what the ADCOMs think proves that you can succeed in med school.

Frankly, I would take the advice of people who've been through the process and gotten in, even it isn't with the friendliest attitude. They're not trying to tear you down, but some things just don't get through without some tough love.

I really do hope you get into med school and succeed, but I also hope you will heed the advice of the posters above.

 

[QQm]

.

 

[johnnyscans]

First, you don't need to list reasons for every bad grade. Just list the grades. It seems like you've made a nice turnaround grade wise, what do your EC activities look like?

You mention sports. The two activities would be nice hobbies, but are mostly filler on your application. I may include one general activity on my application for sports since I've done various rides to raise money for medically-related causes. It also shows that you can live a balanced life, which is important.

It seems like you've taken nursing courses. Have you worked as a nurse before? What type of clinical exposure outside of your nursing courses do you have? Have you shadowed and volunteered in a clinical setting? Why are you choosing to pursue a medical degree instead of nursing?

Your grades over the past two years aren't that great. B's are not steps towards medical school, they're steps away. Your MCAT score highlights that you did not master your coursework.

Running a website, while nice, is also not a top EC. What certifications or licenses do you have that allow you to give exercise and nutritional advice to others? How many hours/week do you spend generating content?

What do I think you need to do? Keep in mind I'm no expert, but I've read a lot of anecdotes, and have poured over this forum.

1. I think you still need additional undergraduate coursework. I'm thinking at least a year at or above a 3.7. You cannot get a single B in this period, and this must be 4-year coursework. . .no more CC.

2. You need to strengthen and broaden your EC activities. Go beyond the normal shadowing and clinical volunteering. Look for experiences that not only help you grow and mature, but help others. I'm thinking full-time job. When I read through your story it looks like you've just been in school the past 10 years. How have you generated income? What do you do with your time outside of school? Obviously you're going to need to play the game a bit, but don't pursue activities just because every other premed does. I'm lucky in that I fuc*ing love my lab and my research. It keeps me motivated and for that reason I have no qualms with going in on weekends and at night to finish projects. Your passion for your activities will come across naturally on activities. Follow your heart.

3. You need to retake your MCAT and score at least a 33. At this point in your academic career, the MCAT has the potential to be your lifesaver. Take however long you need to prepare for it, and do everything in your power to annihilate it.

4. A caveat: do not take my next point as me being harsh. In my opinion, it seems like you need to mature and grow up a bit. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to pursue medicine. I would not be pursuing this path if there were any other options. It is long, stressful, expensive and extremely uncertain. It took two years of full-time work and a semester of classes and 20+ hours a week of shadowing before I fully committed and decided to apply to post-bacc programs. Please, for your own sake, make sure that you have a deep-seeded and mature reason for pursuing medicine, ideally one that goes beyond "I want to help people".

Are you a lost cause? Nope. Is your path going to be tough? Yep. Is it possible? I don't know. Come back in the spring with 20+ credits of 3.7 science coursework and we'll figure out a logical next step for you.

Best.

 

[MDforMee]

I've put my cards on the table for you all to see. My entire background is available in this thread. You, and admissions committees, that peruse this board, would easily identify me, should they choose.

And that's the point, really. To take an unbiased personal inventory, and be straight with people in discussing my goals. I'd like to work collaboratively with others, to the point of this forum's purpose. Helping US get into medical school.

But, sorry, cochise, you come into my thread, my little bubble here on the internet, and try to drag me down, I'm going to speak up. That type of behavior doesn't belong here. We're all adults, so act like it.

What I'm trying to do in this thread is help myself, and eventually help others in my situation -- or one like it -- to take the right road, and become successful.

What's more, I welcome any of you to take a critique of my MCAT, medical history, GPA trends, or whatever else. Hit me with your best shot. That's what I'm here for. To hear what you think about my history, be it good, or bad, because that's all practice for admissions committees, interviewers, etc.

But, don't pull any cheap shots, like Dr. Midlife, or the other guy, making personal judgments, condescending, etc. I won't hesitate to call you out on it.

Thanks for reading.

 

[MDforMee]

First, you don't need to list reasons for every bad grade. Just list the grades. It seems like you've made a nice turnaround grade wise, what do your EC activities look like?

You mention sports. The two activities would be nice hobbies, but are mostly filler on your application. I may include one general activity on my application for sports since I've done various rides to raise money for medically-related causes. It also shows that you can live a balanced life, which is important.

It seems like you've taken nursing courses. Have you worked as a nurse before? What type of clinical exposure outside of your nursing courses do you have? Have you shadowed and volunteered in a clinical setting? Why are you choosing to pursue a medical degree instead of nursing?

Your grades over the past two years aren't that great. B's are not steps towards medical school, they're steps away. Your MCAT score highlights that you did not master your coursework.

Running a website, while nice, is also not a top EC. What certifications or licenses do you have that allow you to give exercise and nutritional advice to others? How many hours/week do you spend generating content?

What do I think you need to do? Keep in mind I'm no expert, but I've read a lot of anecdotes, and have poured over this forum.

1. I think you still need additional undergraduate coursework. I'm thinking at least a year at or above a 3.7. You cannot get a single B in this period, and this must be 4-year coursework. . .no more CC.

2. You need to strengthen and broaden your EC activities. Go beyond the normal shadowing and clinical volunteering. Look for experiences that not only help you grow and mature, but help others. I'm thinking full-time job. When I read through your story it looks like you've just been in school the past 10 years. How have you generated income? What do you do with your time outside of school? Obviously you're going to need to play the game a bit, but don't pursue activities just because every other premed does. I'm lucky in that I fuc*ing love my lab and my research. It keeps me motivated and for that reason I have no qualms with going in on weekends and at night to finish projects. Your passion for your activities will come across naturally on activities. Follow your heart.

3. You need to retake your MCAT and score at least a 33. At this point in your academic career, the MCAT has the potential to be your lifesaver. Take however long you need to prepare for it, and do everything in your power to annihilate it.

4. A caveat: do not take my next point as me being harsh. In my opinion, it seems like you need to mature and grow up a bit. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to pursue medicine. I would not be pursuing this path if there were any other options. It is long, stressful, expensive and extremely uncertain. It took two years of full-time work and a semester of classes and 20+ hours a week of shadowing before I fully committed and decided to apply to post-bacc programs. Please, for your own sake, make sure that you have a deep-seeded and mature reason for pursuing medicine, ideally one that goes beyond "I want to help people".

Are you a lost cause? Nope. Is your path going to be tough? Yep. Is it possible? I don't know. Come back in the spring with 20+ credits of 3.7 science coursework and we'll figure out a logical next step for you.

Best.

Extracurricular Activities Summary:
1. 1 year volunteering in Emergency Room (200+ hours)
2. 4 Months volunteering in Trauma Nursing Unit (70+ hours)
3. 1 year working as Certified Nursing Assistant in long term care (>500 hours)
4. 1 year working as Certified Nursing Assistant in acute care (>300 hours)
5. Founder and president of AMSA premedical club at community college
6. Liason for my premedical club to AMSA premedical club at a different community college
7. I run a free, internet based consultation service for fitness and weight loss advising/assistance, and I've helped over 50 people lose weight and get in shape. Visit it here: http://fitnessgoalsforums.intuitwebsites.com/
8. 12 years as an athlete (road cycling, mountain biking, cross country running, weight lifting, amateur bodybuilding, kickboxing)
9. I provided free tutoring in chemistry and math for 1 year (40 hours)
10. Courses at UCLA have included:
a. Honors Physics, Honors Intermediate Inorganic Chemistry, Honors Biomedical Research
b. Graduate level Molecular Biology, Genomics
11. I've worked ~30 hours a week since 2008 while attending school to support myself, having no debt and a clean credit history.
12. Relevant Coursework:
a. Honors Organic Chemistry at community college
b. Anatomy and Physiology (2 semesters), Microbiology
c. Pharmacology

I will have completed 32 credits of upper division science by this spring. I'm serious about getting over a 3.7. These classes are ones I enjoy, but, are difficult. Biochemistry, mostly, with some epidemiology, and possibly even a type of pharmacology. All upper division sciences.

I left nursing to pursue medicine, after having been exposed to working in the field (CNA), volunteering, and getting a 4.0 in nursing school. I did not feel challenged by nursing, honestly. I worked in the same departments as a few of my professors, ironically, and my suspicions of disliking my job were further compounded by family members that left floor nursing to go into administration, etc. I'm not saying nursing isn't a good field, but for me, it wasn't. There are other reasons I could elaborate upon, but that's the gist of it.

During the last 6 years, I've been employed 30 hours a week, at least, working. This ride hasn't been free.

And, yes, I would like to retake the MCAT. Perhaps the R in the verbal section will offset the fact that I received an 8 in the verbal, to some degree, but it's the truth when I said that I was busy this summer and didn't do a single verbal practice problem. I imagine that with some practice, my score will improve.

This is productive dialog, so thanks for posting your thoughts. As far as the maturity thing goes, though, I'm not sure what you're expecting when someone tells me I'm unfit for medicine, and I tell them off. That's more maturity than what's on the surface, IMO.

 

[johnnyscans]

Extracurricular Activities Summary:
1. 1 year volunteering in Emergency Room (200+ hours)
2. 4 Months volunteering in Trauma Nursing Unit (70+ hours)
3. 1 year working as Certified Nursing Assistant in long term care (>500 hours)
4. 1 year working as Certified Nursing Assistant in acute care (>300 hours)
5. Founder and president of AMSA premedical club at community college
6. Liason for my premedical club to AMSA premedical club at a different community college
7. I run a free, internet based consultation service for fitness and weight loss advising/assistance, and I've helped over 50 people lose weight and get in shape. Visit it here: http://fitnessgoalsforums.intuitwebsites.com/
8. 12 years as an athlete (road cycling, mountain biking, cross country running, weight lifting, amateur bodybuilding, kickboxing)
9. I provided free tutoring in chemistry and math for 1 year (40 hours)
10. Courses at UCLA have included:
a. Honors Physics, Honors Intermediate Inorganic Chemistry, Honors Biomedical Research
b. Graduate level Molecular Biology, Genomics
11. I've worked ~30 hours a week since 2008 while attending school to support myself, having no debt and a clean credit history.
12. Relevant Coursework:
a. Honors Organic Chemistry at community college
b. Anatomy and Physiology (2 semesters), Microbiology
c. Pharmacology

I will have completed 32 credits of upper division science by this spring. I'm serious about getting over a 3.7. These classes are ones I enjoy, but, are difficult. Biochemistry, mostly, with some epidemiology, and possibly even a type of pharmacology. All upper division sciences.

I left nursing to pursue medicine, after having been exposed to working in the field (CNA), volunteering, and getting a 4.0 in nursing school. I did not feel challenged by nursing, honestly. I worked in the same departments as a few of my professors, ironically, and my suspicions of disliking my job were further compounded by family members that left floor nursing to go into administration, etc. I'm not saying nursing isn't a good field, but for me, it wasn't. There are other reasons I could elaborate upon, but that's the gist of it.

During the last 6 years, I've been employed 30 hours a week, at least, working. This ride hasn't been free.

And, yes, I would like to retake the MCAT. Perhaps the R in the verbal section will offset the fact that I received an 8 in the verbal, to some degree, but it's the truth when I said that I was busy this summer and didn't do a single verbal practice problem. I imagine that with some practice, my score will improve.

This is productive dialog, so thanks for posting your thoughts. As far as the maturity thing goes, though, I'm not sure what you're expecting when someone tells me I'm unfit for medicine, and I tell them off. That's more maturity than what's on the surface, IMO.

Look at your old posts and look at this last one. This one has no excuses. This one paints a picture of someone who has been exposed to the field. This one paints a picture of an applicant who, despite some flaws in his academic history, is serious about his choice and path. This one highlights a long history of experiences that maybe, just maybe, may make this person fit for a career in medicine.

MCAT: unfortunately, the R won't do a damn thing. They're phasing out the writing section since many adcoms admitted they never looked at the score. I have faith you can do much better. Us cyclists are a masochistic breed. My advice: download khan academy audio files and listen to them while you ride. Free review, and there's much to be said about information osmosis.

Kick ass this school year. Retake your MCAT. Re-evaluate in the Spring. While it may be worthwhile to apply to SMPs for a fall 2013 start I'm afraid the combination of MCAT and GPA may lead you to disappointment.

 

[MDforMee]

Look at your old posts and look at this last one. This one has no excuses. This one paints a picture of someone who has been exposed to the field. This one paints a picture of an applicant who, despite some flaws in his academic history, is serious about his choice and path. This one highlights a long history of experiences that maybe, just maybe, may make this person fit for a career in medicine.

MCAT: unfortunately, the R won't do a damn thing. They're phasing out the writing section since many adcoms admitted they never looked at the score. I have faith you can do much better. Us cyclists are a masochistic breed. My advice: download khan academy audio files and listen to them while you ride. Free review, and there's much to be said about information osmosis.

Kick ass this school year. Retake your MCAT. Re-evaluate in the Spring. While it may be worthwhile to apply to SMPs for a fall 2013 start I'm afraid the combination of MCAT and GPA may lead you to disappointment.

Thanks for the reply. I'll look into the audio osmosis tapes, too.

Here is my plan of attack:
1. Get A's in hard classes like Biochem 2 and Biochem 3, physical biochemistry, 2 biochemical lab classes, epidemiology, etc.
2. Retake MCAT, this time studying for the verbal section, lol.

SMP Applications -- Spring, 2013
1. "Goal SMPs"- Georgetown, Boston University, Tufts, U of Cincinnati
2. "Possible SMPs"- Drexel, Loyola Chicago, Rosalind Franklin, U of Toledo
3. "Less Possible SMPs"- USC Global Medicine, Keck Graduate Institute, EVMS, VCU

Medicine Applications -- Spring 2013
1. Western, Rocky Vista, Touro CA (All DO)

Medicine Applications -- Spring 2014
1. All MD schools

So, basically I'll be "reaching" for the top SMPs, while applying to the DO schools that I would consider.

In the case that I don't get into any "Goal SMPs," I can consider SMPs with a linkage, while possibly interviewing at DO schools, to ensure that I at least get in to A medical school come Fall of 2014, and not be left out in the cold.

This sets up a worst case scenario.

The best case scenario, then, would be going to one of the SMPs back East (Georgetown, Tufts, Boston), and then applying to California UCs, with an acceptance to a DO school in hand.

Like I said, I get free tuition at public California medical schools, and if you think about it, I'm taking a gamble that an SMP will get me in to Davis, Irvine, or Riverside, potentially saving me hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical school tuition.

If you have any comments about my proposed plan, please share them. In any case, thanks for reading.

 

[Big Dog]

"This should bring my cumulative UCLA GPA to 3.4-3.5 by graduation in the Spring."

And that is the issue: a 30/3.4, even if earned in four years' of attendance at UCLA, is just too low for the typical Calif resident to be accepted into an allo med school.

If your UCLA gpa was 3.7+, which included plenty of upper division science courses, you might have a compelling story (aka explanation). Absent a stellar gpa at the next level, you are just another low stat applicant, who struggled in college for several years while finding him/herself, with medical/health issues.

 

[MDforMee]

"This should bring my cumulative UCLA GPA to 3.4-3.5 by graduation in the Spring."

And that is the issue: a 30/3.4, even if earned in four years' of attendance at UCLA, is just too low for the typical Calif resident to be accepted into an allo med school.

If your UCLA gpa was 3.7+, which included plenty of upper division science courses, you might have a compelling story (aka explanation). Absent a stellar gpa at the next level, you are just another low stat applicant, who struggled in college for several years while finding him/herself, with medical/health issues.

This is what I want from you guys.

Gimme a minute to work up my mojo for a reply... okay, here it is:

So you think I should go to an SMP.

In my opinion, a 3.5 GPA at UCLA (with plenty of upper division sciences) is nothing to scoff at, since I've been working 30+ hours a week. I will also have a nice grade trend of A's in upper division sciences.

Which leads me to my next point... if I'm not competitive as a CA applicant, which I very well might not be, I'm hoping that a good performance at an SMP will show adcoms that I can do as well as or better than the med students.

You see, if/when I do go to an SMP, I won't be working, and I'll be able to devote all my time to studying.

A UCLA alum with 3.5 (only at UCLA), a 30R (maybe more if I retake it), and a good performance in a reputable SMP will net me allopathic acceptances, guaranteed. Is that acceptance guaranteed in California? No. But, I'll get in somewhere.

I don't know about you, but I have a 200k dollar incentive to get into a CA med school. Free tuition is very nice.

My medical reasons were separate from each other, by the way. I have doctor's notes, etc to that effect. I'm not too worried about adcoms opinions on my medical issues. I can explain them if need be.

 

[red doctober]

You've got a good plan, and if you do well at an SMP, I think you will get in somewhere. Use the words of the naysayers as motivation to rise above. Good luck, and I'll be interested in keeping up with your story in the future.

 

[Big Dog]

My older msar shows Irvine was an average of 3.7/32 for acceptances; Davis was a 3.6/32. (And those numbers are based on four years of gpa.)

Good luck to you.

 

[MDforMee]

You've got a good plan, and if you do well at an SMP, I think you will get in somewhere. Use the words of the naysayers as motivation to rise above. Good luck, and I'll be interested in keeping up with your story in the future.

Thanks, I'll definitely update this thread with my progress.