09-10 MSTP Question Thread

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pazan said:
The adcoms probably hated reading my 10,000 character behemoth. My stats were lower for MSTP, but I spent a lot of time writing about my 3 research experiences in a way that, hopefully, made me sound interested and passionate about them. I think a detailed account of each research experience can help some applicants... you just need to make sure to analyze your contribution and its impact on you instead of only describing/listing.
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I didn't know that we needed to talk about the impact that each experience had on us - the prompt just asked for the nature of the problem studies, duration of experience, and our contributions. Were we supposed to be like, "I did this and I learned that science is messy?" I mean I think it kind of insults their intelligence to do that. I could say, "I learned that science can get messy and that projects take turns you wouldn't expect" but given that I talked about two projects blowing up in my face and how I got interested in a totally separate research question it seems redundant for me to say that explicitly. And saying "I learned that I would rather do this than anything else" sounds really soppy and really pretty manufactured. I just used the space to set up my research (briefly outlined the preliminaries) and then said what I did and where that research was presented/published. Is this going to hurt me? Should I include something on what I learned from each experience?
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1. Is there any list of secondary questions specifically for MD/PhD analogous to the list on the pre-allo forum that we can start working on? How likely is it that the questions will change from year to year?

Yeah, check the stickies. I think people put some up this past round.

2. Is there a personal statement reader list for MD/PhD or if we want ours read do we just bug the pre allo readers list?

I and a few others have made ourselves available to read essays. Feel free to send your essays to me and I'll read them over, but I'm not promising to be nice, only thorough.

Should I include something on what I learned from each experience?

The "what research have you done" space is for listing what research you've done, not for bull****ting. Leave the bull**** for the other two essays. Just state what you did. If you blather too much they might not think that you know your research well, since you can't explain it in a concise way. Now, if you did research with someone and didn't get a recommendation letter from that experience, it might be worth talking about why they don't know enough about you to write an informed letter (busy superstar PI didn't ever talk to you again after agreeing to work with you and sticking you with a defending grad student who was not working on any research projects anymore... yeah that happened to me).

If you actually did learn something, it might be worth saying that in a sentence or two, but don't make up stuff about how it changed your life and inspired you or anything ridiculous. Just be frank and brief.
 
I'm confused as to what we're saying when we check particular "degree areas" when choosing schools to apply to. Are we just saying:

"Yeah, I find these 5 areas kind of interesting and may like to do my PhD work with one of them."

or are we saying:

"This is the one or two particular areas I see myself focusing on."

Gratzi!
 
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I don't understand your question. I don't see the distinction between focusing on something and getting a PhD in it in this context.
 
GliaGirl said:
I don't understand your question. I don't see the distinction between focusing on something and getting a PhD in it in this context.
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I meant it in a "I know I'm interested in either doing my PhD in Immunology or Molecular Bio" kind of way versus including the other three areas which may be interesting but I won't know for sure unless I do a rotation in them.
 
hey guys! just thought i'd poke into this thread; i'm applying MD/PhD this upcoming cycle. this summer is going to be so crazy - still in the process of writing my personal statement/md-phd essay/research interest essays. oh and im taking the mcat july 2nd...very busy few weeks ahead of me :/


i just had 1 quick question; earlier in this thread someone mentioned that our research interests would be surmised from our essays, but the field that i'm interested in going is quite different from the research i've done (i want to go into chemistry, but i've done mostly neurobio research). any tips on navigating myself through this? best of luck with everything guys! we'll get through this somehow :D
 
injunjoe


personally, and this is just me, I would write mostly about the neurobio research. At interviews, I would talk about neurobio - maybe the chemical aspects of it. I would use my experience and prior commitments to show that this is what I actually want to do. After getting into MSTP, I would change to a chemistry lab. Getting a foot in the door is harder than changing in the room.

None of us knows what we are actually going to research about in the future. However, MSTPs want people that are committed and confident (so they don't lose money). I am sure you are more than capable to do chem research, but you have already easily proven that you have done neuro. So, yea, that's just me (and I was advised by mdphd on the adcom to go strong at my interviews and act like I want to cure a disease that was in the line of my research even if that sounds ridiculous)
 
thanks witness! that was kind of the approach I was leaning towards.
 
Alrighty, quick question here from the (surprisingly warm) north:

I have a little catch 22 here. I am applying to MD PhD programs and if I understand that correctly you should typically send in LoRs from each of your PIs that you worked with. Towards the end of the time that I worked with one of the PIs I worked for (which whom I did an honours thesis as well), we didn't get along as well anymore. We still published together (and are still working together on the project, as it's a longitudinal one), but I think the level of mutual fondness decreased.
I am worried that if I ask said PI for a LoR that she might write me a negative one, which could drastically decrease my chances for admission. However, if I don't ask her to write one for me I am worried that adcomms will look at my prior research experiences and say "Hm, he worked with this PI for this long and didn't ask for a LoR, I wonder why... ", and that it's kinda seen as a red flag as well.
So what should I do? If I ask the PI and indeed get a negative letter, can 3 or 4 really really strong letters from other profs make up for that?

Help is appreciated :)
 
some schools REQUIRE a letter from each of your research mentors. Someone that was in your shoes might be able to comment, but you might want to ask your PI if he/she can write you a good rec. People have different views on "falling out", so I'm not really sure how extreme your situation is. Maybe you showed up late just once, maybe you were terrible in lab, maybe you got her pregnant and stopped coming in, pun. Most of the time though, people are usually nice and acknowledge your contributions.


However, a negative letter still hurts a lot. So again, ask her clearly if she could write you a good one. Maybe you want to ask a post doc to write and have her co-sign.
 
sycou17 said:
quick question... I have an organic synthesis paper that I co-authored pending publication right now, submitted it early May, so I probably won't know for another month or so if the journal has accepted it. My pre-health advisor told me to wait to submit my AMCAS until I know the status of my paper. However, I do have another publication that I'm first author on. It was for the ACS Club at my school, and it won a $1000 grant for the club. I also presented it at an ACS National Meeting in Salt Lake City. The only downside is that its an educational paper outlining activities that would help elementary school aged children learn general chemistry.

blah blah blah, my point is should I wait on my other publication? I feel that my first publication isn't as significant because it's related to my extracurricular activities and my community outreach program rather than my research.

Any input would be greatly appreciated :)
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It never surprises me how much pre-med advisors can SCREW us over with crappy advice like this.

Dude, your pre-med advisor has clearly never publishing anything in their life and do not understand how publications work.

I suggest you submit the AMCAS NOW and then if the paper gets in, send an update and you will have some fresh stuff to talk about during the interview.

Do not wait for a journal man...that stuff is so variable I have a better chance guessing the exact second of my death.
 
It wasn't a huge nuclear-war-like fall-out, it was just a matter of the project not working out as suspected (I am keeping it this vague because I do not want to identify either myself or my supervisor)...that together with deadline pressure made the whole thing a little uncomfortable.
 
Question:

Guys I am doing research and I have stuck with one lab all my years in college so far. How should I deal with these schools that ask for 3 reccs from research people? I don't know if asking a postdoc is such a good idea. I'd rather ask other professors.
 
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What schools explicitly require three letters from research people? I have 5 letters: 2 research profs, a prof I taught a class with, a philosophy of science prof, and a humanities prof. I wonder if that's sufficient for whatever schools these are.
 
MNIkid87 said:
So what should I do? If I ask the PI and indeed get a negative letter, can 3 or 4 really really strong letters from other profs make up for that?
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You'll hurt yourself if you don't get a letter form your main PI. Just ask her the question: Are you willing to write me a positive letter of recommendation for an MD/PhD program? Unless she REALLY hates your guts she will answer honestly, because she has no interest in wasting her own time by writing a bad letter. She has much better things to do.

Red Leader said:
I am thinking about asking them, but these guy don't know me very well beyond working on that one project. What should I do? Just go with the 1 recc from my main PI?
Get LORs from the other PIs as well, but only send them if required to, in case they aren't perfect.

alacast said:
What schools explicitly require three letters from research people? I have 5 letters: 2 research profs, a prof I taught a class with, a philosophy of science prof, and a humanities prof. I wonder if that's sufficient for whatever schools these are.
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I don't remember many schools requiring a specific # of PI recommendations, but plenty want one from every PI you've worked with.
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nystargate said:
I would suggest writing more substantial material (not fluff) in your essay to get closer to the 5,300 mark. Think about it like this - if someone on the adcoms gave you 15 minutes to explain why you should be accepted to their MD/PhD program and you gave your explanation in half the time, you wouldn't appear that enthusiastic or committed to the program. Same idea here ... maybe go on to discuss what you would like to accomplish after graduating from the program or how you plan on using your degrees to advance research and medicine.
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My personal statement (the 5,300 one) only came in between 3000-3500 characters. My first draft was the full lenght but by the time I was done with editing and so forth, it was in that smaller range. When I looked at my statment, I felt there was nothing else I could really add that wouldn't affect the cohesiveness of my personal statement. I feel if your statement says everything you want to say and you feel it is strong, go with it. ADCOMS will be reading hundreds of statements, no reason to make it longer then necessary to get your point clearly across.
 
Hi,

I have one more question. I have three lab experiences under my belt, one being department of psych, one being dept. of neurology/neurosurgery and one being cardiovascular. I am worried that this will make me look confused and unfocused (I went for three different fields because I wanted to see what's out there / what would be fun to me), so should I explain my reasons for checking out three vastly different fields?
 
I wouldn't think so. College is supposed to be a time where you explore different research options that are available to you. I don't think anyone would expect you to know what you want to do before you ever try research, so your first and second lab experiences might not be your ideal future career. Then again, if you spend eight years just doing a phd because you rotate labs so much, there might be a problem :)

They should already understand. I would only explain your decisions if they bring it up. It should actually play to your advantage, because if they ask what your goal area is, you can say with more confidence because you have worked in more areas.
 
thanks for the input :)
 
I've started looking at secondaries a bit and I've noticed that quite a few schools have these md/phd recommendation forms that they want your recommenders to fill out. Are these usually required, because my recommenders have already written their letters and I feel like it will be annoying to give them a bunch of random worksheets that they have to send out to lots of different school.
 
I'd like to second Marie's question. My university uses a committee/composite letter, which is the only letter* sent to places. I don't even know how yet another letter form would operate, logistically, with that.

*It's actually a combination of letters
 
"quite a few schools have these md/phd recommendation forms"

Quite a few? I only remember encountering one personally, and hearing of another two or so from other people. If this is something that a lot of schools are doing all of a sudden I'd like to know, so post up what schools are doing it. If a school wants you to have your letter writer fill out another form you have a few options:

1) Don't apply there (that is what I did for SUNY Downstate, because I'm just that lazy...)
2) Call them and ask if they NEED it or just WANT it, because they are being unreasonable. This process is already annoying enough without them throwing more paperwork at you.
3) Do whatever the heck they tell you to do, because one form and half an hour of your mentor's time is slightly less important than the next ~8 years of your life.

And if they want your LOR writers to fill out the form and don't want your committee letter, then don't send the committee letter. Or send it anyway and let them throw it out if they really don't want it.

If you ever have school specific questions you can post it here, but your best bet is just to call the school.
 
I hope to apply for the 2010 cycle and have a few questions:

The first is the obligatory "what are my chances?" question.

I graduated this May with a 3.88 I received a 40N (15BS 12PS 13 VR if that matters). I spent my first two years of college exploring various disciplines (and transferring schools), and didn't declare Biology until junior year or find a good research position until the summer after. I did research full-time over the summer and part-time through senior year. Since graduating, I have been working full time (in a different laboratory). I plan to submit my AMCAS in late-July or early-August after having a bit more time to fully flesh out my essays and my role in the laboratory.

With my comparatively limited research experience, am I still somewhat competitive? Are there certain schools (tiers) I should avoid or target?

My LoRs should all be positive, including the one forthcoming from my current PI. I have done some shadowing, and do keep busy outside of classes/work, but my ECs are not particularly outstanding.
 
:rolleyes: You'll be fine. Many school value research above all else, so if you've been doing a grad student's western blots for the 1.5 years, you'll be in trouble. But if you've been actively participating in the planning of the projects and carrying them out, you should be ok. Know your research insie and out, blah blah blah. You're GPA is great and you're MCAT score is super, so don't worry. Just apply broadly, just like everyone else, and don't waste too much time fleshing anything out. Less flesh, more application. You have your scores. You're not going to cure the common cold in the next month, so take the weekend to perfect your essays, send them to someone here to read, and submit ASAP. There is no reason to wait, and every day you wait now will just cost you 2 days waiting for AMCAS to verify you. ESPECIALLY if you wait until August; you'll have a few weeks wait as it is.
 
alacast said:
I'd like to second Marie's question. My university uses a committee/composite letter, which is the only letter* sent to places. I don't even know how yet another letter form would operate, logistically, with that.

*It's actually a combination of letters
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My undergrad did the same thing - its easiest for you to just ask your premed advisor who's in charge of organizing materials for the letters, and who sends out the letters to the schools (in our program, this was the department secretary), then to go talk to this person - explain that the program's you're applying to want to see the full letters from each of your recommenders in addition to the committee letter, and ask if he/she would be willing to include those letters with your committee packet.

The only place I remember applying to that had an additional form was Northwestern, and I think that they said if your premed committee used a similar form, you could send that one in (mine did, so I did that). If your premed committee doesn't have a form for your recommenders to evaluate you, you should probably arrange for them to fill out the forms you need for the additional schools (print the forms, bring them to the professors with pre-addressed, stamped envelopes).

Good luck!
 
"Quite a few? I only remember encountering one personally, and hearing of another two or so from other people. If this is something that a lot of schools are doing all of a sudden I'd like to know, so post up what schools are doing it."

So far I've found 4 schools that want the extra recommendation forms: Mayo, Dartmouth, Northwestern (at least they did last year), and Yale (they say it's not required but highly recommended). Maybe I'm just unlucky and applied to all the places that want them.
 
I'm curious how I should list this.

My PI and another PI submitted a grant (a stimulus grant) based on a project I created and have been working on for some time. I did some work helping to put the grant together but they did the majority of the writing. How should I list this on my application? It's not a publication and my name isn't on it, it's the PI's name on there (my PI did mention it in my letter of recommendation). Should I even mention it?
 
I am in the same situation and what I have done is the following:
In the AMCAS thingy you can list your extracurriculars, and I put each lab as one extracurricular, and in the description I wrote the tasks. I listed grant-writing as one of the tasks. E.g.:

Working in Dr. Insertname's lab
- learned and applied Whatsamacallit procedure
- conducted Randomexperimentaltask X
- wrote grant proposal for XX grand.
 
I know GliaGirl mentioned she'd be willing to review essays. Are there any other MD/PhDs (MD/PhD students) who would be willing to spare a bit of time to review. I know others were mentioned, but I don't have any names. Thanks.
 
marie78 said:
"Quite a few? I only remember encountering one personally, and hearing of another two or so from other people. If this is something that a lot of schools are doing all of a sudden I'd like to know, so post up what schools are doing it."

So far I've found 4 schools that want the extra recommendation forms: Mayo, Dartmouth, Northwestern (at least they did last year), and Yale (they say it's not required but highly recommended). Maybe I'm just unlucky and applied to all the places that want them.
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Lol those must be the only 4. I didn't use one for northwestern, but my school had a similar form.
 
I just added a few MD/PhD schools, and once I add my essays, for some reason they don't show up in the print application pdf. I can see them in the essay summary though, and I'm just a little scared to hit submit. I have already submitted my application for MD schools. Help please!
 
anyone heard back from schools about md/phd applications yet? keep us posted!
 
I don't know anything about the school's preference, but I do know how to edit a pdf. Open the pdf (not sure if you can do this in adobe, but I know it works from my mac opening it in Preview). Then go to print. Select the pages you want to include (from 1 to __). Then go to print to pdf, and it will re-save it with the selected pages!
 
that I don't know. But I'd be curious to find out myself. If they see my schools, they will know I'm being midwest specific. anyone have an answer?
 
if they have access to your amcas file anyways wouldn't they already know the schools you are applying to? I think the MSTP office asks for the amcas application separately so that they don't have to go through the md admissions office to get to the information, could be wrong though that's just my guess...

Personally, i think you shouldn't worry about them knowing, mstp's know you're applying to many schools because they know how competitive this whole process is, maybe someone else can chime in but while I understand your worries about UIC or other schools finding out about your school list, I don't think it really matters much
 
Remuneration said:
I know GliaGirl mentioned she'd be willing to review essays. Are there any other MD/PhDs (MD/PhD students) who would be willing to spare a bit of time to review. I know others were mentioned, but I don't have any names. Thanks.
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I'll review some if wanted...pm me...
 
alacast said:
What schools explicitly require three letters from research people? I have 5 letters: 2 research profs, a prof I taught a class with, a philosophy of science prof, and a humanities prof. I wonder if that's sufficient for whatever schools these are.
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I just got Mt. Sinai's secondary today, and they specifically require 3 letters from research PIs. The MSTP secondary app says:

"Your application will be considered complete once we have received your supplemental application and letters of recommendation, which must include:

  • Committee packet from your pre-med Advisory Committee or one letter from a science faculty and one from non-science faculty member.
    AND​
  • 3 letters from research mentors, including one from your current research mentor."
I only have one research adviser from undergrad (got a letter from him), and a current adviser, but I JUST started my research at the NIH and certainly can't ask for a recommendation at this point...so I also am unsure what to do here. I'll email the admissions office and see what they say.

Anyone else have issues with this?

Edit: I just called Mount Sinai today, and they said it's fine if you don't have 3 research mentors to write letters. :)
 
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reine1jb said:
if they have access to your amcas file anyways wouldn't they already know the schools you are applying to?
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Nope, they don't get that information until the end of the cycle, if they've accepted you.

This sounds awfully sleazy to me. I would email back and ask if it's okay not to include those pages, as you'd like to keep the list of schools you've applied to private.
 
Do you really think that you are the only person applying to a lot of schools? Everyone applies to a lot of schools. It is pretty crappy of them to ask for it, but who cares? They probably look at the list for things like region preferences, MD only applications, and stuff like that. If you were a great applicant and you ONLY applied to their school, it might help you out for them to see your list and realize that you REALLY want to go there.

Basically, if you don't care about going there enough to bend over backwards and do whatever they want from you automatically, then it won't be such a big tragedy to send them the list. They obviously assume that you are applying to multiple places, and I HIGHLY doubt that they would make their decision based on how many schools someone applied to. Just don't worry about it and do what they say. This whole process is full of stupid crud like this. Don't even get me started on all of the secondary applications that ask you to input all of the info you already gave them on the primary and waste hours of time...
 
tiamat360 said:
Nope, they don't get that information until the end of the cycle, if they've accepted you.

This sounds awfully sleazy to me. I would email back and ask if it's okay not to include those pages, as you'd like to keep the list of schools you've applied to private.
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ahhh well thanks for correcting that, still I hold that it probably doesn't matter all that much. It would seem extremely unlikely that UIC wouldn't interview you or accept you based off of the list of schools an applicant is applying to....

so tiamat, if you were at an interview and an interviewer asked you where else you've been you would tell them nothing? I was asked that question at most if not all of my interviews and answered truthfully...it seems to be a pretty similar situation as to seeing the list of schools on an amcas application. Maybe not though because it is further along in the process

This just seems like a silly thing to be worrying relative to all the other things that are required of an applicant during the application cycle... I guess I don't understand how UIC, or any other school for that matter, could use the list in a manner that would negatively impact the application...
 
Question: Do schools know where you are applying? Any answers with evidence as opposed to supposition?
 
i don't know the question you are asking directly, but I do know that lost of interviewers will ask where else you applied or are interviewing, so they will know at that point.

other than that, I have no clue.
 
Schools do not know where you are applying. Once they accept you, they see the list of schools you've been accepted to, including whether the admission was MD or MD/PhD. Wasn't that just answered above?

As others mentioned, however, it may come up at your interviews.
 
CielloStelatto said:
i don't know the question you are asking directly, but I do know that lost of interviewers will ask where else you applied or are interviewing, so they will know at that point.

other than that, I have no clue.
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Would it be awkward or would they hold it against you if you refuse to disclose where else you were applying to? Are they going to be as adamant in person as UIC is behind a computer screen in getting your list of schools?
 
There's only one way they might hold your list against you, and that's if they see you have MD-only schools on your list. That indicates LACK OF DISCIPRINE, errr commitment, or something. If that's you, I'd advise you take some steps to hide your list. Otherwise, who cares? Just show them. They know they're not the only school you're applying to, and nobody is going to judge you based on the other schools you applied to.

Then it makes you wonder if you're the only guy who hides something will they assume you're hiding something? Ah overanalysis. Do what makes you happy.
 
Anybody else tried to submit their MSTP secondary to Pitt, but the website's crapping out?
"An error occurred on the server when processing the URL. If you are the owner of this site please contact the iTarget Helpdesk."

That's frustrating. Almost as frustrating as Columbia's essay box where I couldn't paste in text, only write in it directly.

Also, Duke's secondary is ridiculous.
 
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