You’ve been made, all 10 of you

[newfeet]

I graduated from residency in 2018 and focused my job hunt in the midwest, in an approx 3 hour driving radius from my semi-rural hometown, including several large metro areas. I was offered multiple private practice positions and none of them offered a realistic pathway to 180k, most it would have been a struggle to make 150k. The worst of the lot was 90k straight salary with no production bonus and, I'm not making this up, a $500 initial signing bonus!! How do you have the gall to offer a $500 bonus? During the recent labor shortage I routinely saw higher bonuses advertised at fast food establishments. A factory near my current practice is currently offering $30/an hour and a 5k bonus after 90 days. I had no luck applying at hospital/MS jobs in my desired area, and very few of the hospital networks even had in house podiatrists.

I went to Kent state and for the class of 2026, their website states estimated cost of attendance (tuition, fees, COL) is 78k per year. I was against the Texas school initially but I could get behind it with that low of tuition, might force the other schools to drop.

I have had several students shadow, and I normally gently suggest they consider going DO/NP/PA route. This may change if salaries increase or tuition significantly decreases, but currently most graduates will end up working as an associate and the ROI is not worth it IMO.

I graduated residency in 2014. I eliminated the possibility of staying in my home state and I took PP off the table. In 2013 I got two rural hospital offers. I took the lower salary of the two because it was closer to home (4 hours). In 2018 I moved to an even more rural location because the salary was higher. I am in my 3rd job now I took a pay cut to take a university job in mid size city because it would be better for my family. This is likely my last job.

If you have an idea of where you want to end up long term... I probably wouldn't recommend podiatry either.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[air bud]

I'm hoping you're wrong on new associate contracts. Along with a change in the perspective of what new associates want, there needs to be an increase in starting salaries. Someone on this thread alluded to practice overhead and that's an excellent point. Along with patient volume (numbers) practice overhead needs to be kept at a reasonable level in order to pay a new associate a descent wage. As stated, a beginning wage of $150,000 is reasonable and seeing this number increase based on production.

With tuition of $18,000/year at UTRGV SOP I believe we will see the other pod schools finding a need to reduce tuition to compete or lose students.

Nobody wants to live in that part of Texas even for the money....some Cali/NYC kid is still going to pay outrageous COL and tuition to go to area schools. And then do residency there. And then take a crappy PP job there.

Will that same person wish they went there 5 years after being out and having huge outstanding loans? Yeah absolutely. But we have the benefit of time and perspective. We were all naive podiatry prepods at one time.

 

[icebreaker32]

Although training can vary, the major problem is the job market. Even with shadowing a naive person can look at the successful podiatrist near their hometown making a half million a year and think that is typical.

You are not a commodity like many other profession, where anyone can make in the 25-75 percentile range of salary depending on the location and demands of the job they choose....and most have options for which type of job they choose. Yes some other health care professions have their issues.......but I am unsure if there are any others that require 7-8 years of training after college that have the issues we do. You can see why many just say be a PA/CRNA or be an MD/DO.

You can do well or even very well with podiatry. You can do poorly also. You do not just finish residency pick a job in your or your spouse's hometown with a signing bonus and start maximizing your 401K on day one most of the time. Sure some do land good jobs in the location they want, but there is a big difference between some and most. There is a different risk/reward consideration with podiatry than many other similar professions......the mean and median salary are further apart as are the 25/75 percentile than many other similar professions.

 

[Foot&AnkleSurgeon]

There is a different risk/reward consideration with podiatry then many other similar professions......the mean and median salary are further apart as are the 25/75 percentile than many other similar professions.

Would like to see data on this. This would be an interesting study @Doug Richie

 

[icebreaker32]

Would like to see data on this. This would be an interesting study @Doug Richie

A basic PM or APMA report on salary kind of reinforces this point when compared to other professions.

Some could view this is a positive actually. More upward potential than many other professions, but with less of a guarantee to make the "average" salary.

 

[Foot&AnkleSurgeon]

Nobody wants to live in that part of Texas even for the money....

Some will and now 27 have. As naive prepods learn about saving $30,000 per year the applicant pool to UTRGV SOP will increase. This increase in demand will raise the academic bar for entry into UTRGV SOP helping our profession.

 

[air bud]

Some will and now 27 have. As naive prepods learn about saving $30,000 per year the applicant pool to UTRGV SOP will increase. This increase in demand will raise the academic bar for entry into UTRGV SOP helping our profession.

That's what I like about you, you are an optimist. Keep it up kid.

No, they are just going to pick off 27 smart forward thinking pre pods that otherwise would have been dispersed. It just opens up 27 more spots at temple/Kent state for pre pods who have ZERO business being admitted in the first place.

You scenario works if 27 spots decreased at other schools....and I don't think that is happening...27 new spots does not mean 27 more of the "Best and brightest!!!!!!" Now get into this amazing profession.

It benefits this school. And this school only. Not the profession.

 

[heybrother]

I haven’t looked at UTRGV‘s tuition website in a month but the lower of the 2 rates (the one being discussed) is I believe in state only. OOS is competitive at like 30k. Historically Texas schools were expected to be 90% Texas in-state residents. The greatest force affecting podiatry schools is not UTRGV - its collapsing enrollment. What happens next year will tell us a lot.

 

[Foot&AnkleSurgeon]

That's what I like about you, you are an optimist. Keep it up kid.

It benefits this school. And this school only. Not the profession.

Thanks. I'm gettin' old... still feel like a kid! lol

Can't agree with the second statement. I believe UTRGV SOP is focused on the bigger picture. It will be interesting to watch and time will tell.

 

[air bud]

Thanks. I'm gettin' old... still feel like a kid! lol

Can't agree with the second statement. I believe UTRGV SOP is focused on the bigger picture. It will be interesting to watch and time will tell.

Maybe for themselves, maybe for the profession. You are assuming all schools are good actors. Change comes from the larger organizations not individual schools, residencies etc. Just like in Washington, we don't have the leaders able to make hard decisions.

 

[Hallux Flaccidus]

The reason behind lower school applicants - it is not SDN. ABPM jumped on the bandwagon and agreed unfortunately.

I reported the data on applicant numbers accurately with citations. I then posed an opinion that a single event in 2021 caused a sudden decline in the numbers of applicants. That event was discussed extensively on the SDN site. It was the event, not SDN which caused the decline in my opinion. Maybe you should take the time to read the blog and get your facts straight before calling out my name on this site and alleging blatant mis-characterizations of who I am.

 

[air bud]

I reported the data on applicant numbers accurately with citations. I then posed an opinion that a single event in 2021 caused a sudden decline in the numbers of applicants. That event was discussed extensively on the SDN site. It was the event, not SDN which caused the decline in my opinion. Maybe you should take the time to read the blog and get your facts straight before calling out my name on this site and alleging blatant mis-characterizations of who I am.

Obviously you don't know how the internet works....

 

[GreenHousePub]

I haven’t looked at UTRGV‘s tuition website in a month but the lower of the 2 rates (the one being discussed) is I believe in state only. OOS is competitive at like 30k. Historically Texas schools were expected to be 90% Texas in-state residents. The greatest force affecting podiatry schools is not UTRGV - its collapsing enrollment. What happens next year will tell us a lot.

Expect to see enrollment numbers rise as the economy and job prospects worsens.

 

[wakaflocka88]

I reported the data on applicant numbers accurately with citations. I then posed an opinion that a single event in 2021 caused a sudden decline in the numbers of applicants. That event was discussed extensively on the SDN site. It was the event, not SDN which caused the decline in my opinion. Maybe you should take the time to read the blog and get your facts straight before calling out my name on this site and alleging blatant mis-characterizations of who I am.

Sir, the event was hosted and integrated into SDN. We as regular posters continuously to post up to date, relevant information for prospective students and current students so they are aware of numerous other issues that our schools and governing boards do not disclose or discuss. We are not disgruntled as posters above have also stated. As Lee Rogers said above - free speech on an online forum and we are graciously providing our time to type this out and provide multiple avenues of insight that prospective students likely would not have gained elsewhere.

 

[air bud]

 

[air bud]

 

[SouthPod7]

View attachment 360037

This. This is why I come to SDN. For the spicy memes.

Also what's great about this is that F&A Ortho could easily be replaced by Increasing Tuition, 10th Podiatry School, Poor Job Market, Poor Leadership, etc. and the meme would still work. The options are endless!

 

[heybrother]

Expect to see enrollment numbers rise as the economy and job prospects worsens.

That wouldn’t surprise me at all as students often hide in education during recessions. That said, there are a lot more options. I used to spend more time reading other parts of this forum, but when I applied to podiatry school (10 years ago) - the DOs seemed to be just coming to grips with new DO schools, DO schools with lower MCAT scores, and for profit schools. It seems like there has been quite a bit of expansion since then and that's not even taking into account the profession nurse practitioners have made as a profession.

I still think podiatry has priced itself out of a lot of students though obviously it doesn't perfectly fit any sort of cause-effect storyline since the prices have been progressively going up for awhile.

I was at a conference recently and strangely all of the "old" podiatrists (10+ years ahead of me) seemed to believe their tuition had been $25K. One specifically said to me that tuition didn't increase while he was a student. People's recollections are often unreliable but it would be fascinating to know if the substantial increase in the price of podiatry school is really just a part of the last 10 years. Like airbud said above - DMU was like $27-28K when I started. It was like $32K when I left.

 

[Poddy2Hotty]

Long time lurker here. Graduated a solid residency a few years ago and did a well known fellowship (Pre-Covid). Wanted to end up on west coast and did fellowship to be more competitive. Job market was awful with majority of positions being private practice with base salaries 80-125k with terrible bonus structures (30% of collections after 300k, etc), no sign on bonus or moving allowance, no family healthcare, $1000 or less for CME, 2-3 week off a year, no 401k.

After residency and fellowship with interest loans were >300k
There is no way anyone with a family, mortgage, car payment, etc could pay that off inside of 10 years earning <150k

I held out and found a position with a MSG in a less desirable region. When I came in for the interview they said >50 other people applied for the same position and they decided to close the applications. I had remote family ties to the region and spent an extra year with fellowship which is what helped me get the position. Salary was 2-3x most private practice offers with extensive benefits. I GOT LUCKY.

Its a joke when pp jobs are offering 80-125k starting when NP/PA base salaries in my region are 150k+ wRVU production bonus (150k is the floor). Podiatry is oversaturated with too many schools out to make a buck and too many residencies that shouldn't be in existence.

I do have some friends that were able to find very good job offers but they are in the middle of nowhere (Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, etc)

If I was applying today knowing what I know now I would recommend seriously looking into PA school as the ROI in current market is much better vs Podiatry.

2 years in PA school (~100k debt) --> 150k+ (super high demand, can live where you want)
vs
4 years in Podiatry school + 3 years of residency + 1 year fellowship (250-300k debt) --> 80-125K or Mid 200s if you are lucky or want to live somewhere awful

Just my 2 cents...

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

Wow. First of all, I would like to thank DR. Richie for his comments. For someone to show enough disrespect to refer to him as “Mr.” Richie, it’s unacceptable.

Doug Richie has likely forgotten more than most of you have ever known. And yes, he also performed surgery in addition to his vast biomechanical knowledge.

He deserves the respect of everyone in the profession. He’s earned it.

I do take issue with Dr. Rogers comments on the disgruntled posters on this site. I know several of them and they are skilled and professionally and financially successful.

To default to calling people angry, disgruntled, unsuccessful is simply dodging the real issues.

Forget about MGMA for a minute. Isn’t the APMA the organization who stated the avg DPM income is about $134,000? My dental hygienist makes $84,000 a year.

Have you ever tried logging into a medical site for “all medical professions”? When it asks for your profession and there is a drop-down menu, how many times have you seen every possible medical professional listed with the exception of DPMs.

Dr. Rogers is obviously licensed in TX. Anyone applying for that license now does not do it via a state medical board, but does it via the Texas Dept or Licenses and Regulations. Yep, DPMs are in there with plumbers, morticians, butchers, bakers and candle stick makers. It’s truly embarrassing.

This is also true in several other states including Florida.

I am not disgruntled and have been very successful in this profession. But I know many who weren’t as fortunate.

There is too much inconsistency with training. There are residency programs in NYC that should be shut down and doctors should literally be arrested. And these doctors are TRAINING an entire new batch of doctors who should be arrested.

Since I’ve been involved with residency training my entire career, I’ve gained the trust of many residents who have asked me to look over contracts and job offers. This residency is a very high quality and academic program with excellent attendings and ethical doctors.

In the last 10 years I have yet to see more than ONE contract I thought was even remotely fair and that holds true when comparing those numbers to Dr. Rogers comments regarding remuneration.

The offers I’ve seen these young docs get are pitiful.

So it’s not disgruntled, etc., it’s simply factual and disappointing that our profession is in the present situation. For every young doc who you can tell me is making MGMA or more, I can show you 10 who aren’t making 1/2 of MGMA. And again, that’s more consistent with the APMA avg of $134.000 ish.

You can’t sweep this under the carpet or dilute it by having a barrage of happy campers suddenly start posting on this site that everything is euphoric. Let THEM explain the APMA avg income.

I have nothing but respect for Dr. Richie and understand his concerns. I’ve never heard him say or write anything I didn’t consider valid.

But I still don’t understand the ABPM stance. I don’t know how their CAQ is going to “protect” the public any more than the ABFAS and the concerns about those who were grandfathered.

I guess I’m old school and always believed in making changes from within the organization. So if you don’t like ABFAS rules, etc., pass the exam and make changes from within. I’ve done that in many organizations and institutions over the years. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t. But I always tried.

It seems like now they twisted the comment “if you can’t beat them, join them” to “if you can’t join them, try to beat them”.

This will simply result in more bad blood within the profession, more divisiveness and more laughter from those outside the profession.

 

[Foot&AnkleSurgeon]

Long time lurker here. Graduated a solid residency a few years ago and did a well known fellowship (Pre-Covid). Wanted to end up on west coast and did fellowship to be more competitive. Job market was awful with majority of positions being private practice with base salaries 80-125k with terrible bonus structures (30% of collections after 300k, etc), no sign on bonus or moving allowance, no family healthcare, $1000 or less for CME, 2-3 week off a year, no 401k.

After residency and fellowship with interest loans were >300k
There is no way anyone with a family, mortgage, car payment, etc could pay that off inside of 10 years earning <150k

I held out and found a position with a MSG in a less desirable region. When I came in for the interview they said >50 other people applied for the same position and they decided to close the applications. I had remote family ties to the region and spent an extra year with fellowship which is what helped me get the position. Salary was 2-3x most private practice offers with extensive benefits. I GOT LUCKY.

Its a joke when pp jobs are offering 80-125k starting when NP/PA base salaries in my region are 150k+ wRVU production bonus (150k is the floor). Podiatry is oversaturated with too many schools out to make a buck and too many residencies that shouldn't be in existence.

I do have some friends that were able to find very good job offers but they are in the middle of nowhere (Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, etc)

If I was applying today knowing what I know now I would recommend seriously looking into PA school as the ROI in current market is much better vs Podiatry.

2 years in PA school (~100k debt) --> 150k+ (super high demand, can live where you want)
vs
4 years in Podiatry school + 3 years of residency + 1 year fellowship (250-300k debt) --> 80-125K or Mid 200s if you are lucky or want to live somewhere awful

Just my 2 cents...

Looking longer term, what's the ceiling for a PA vs the ceiling for a podiatrist? Podiatrists can be paid for research, consulting, medical-legal work, product development etc while continuing to earn income from a busy practice. I'm willing to bet that over the life of a career a podiatrist makes far more money than a PA who's stuck 150k per year.

 

[PTPuser]

I wish I went toward the NP route

 

[Poddy2Hotty]

Looking longer term, what's the ceiling for a PA vs the ceiling for a podiatrist? Podiatrists can be paid for research, consulting, medical-legal work, product development etc while continuing to earn income from a busy practice. I'm willing to bet that over the life of a career a podiatrist makes far more money than a PA who's stuck 150k per year.

150k+
Many PA/NP in my MSG well into the 200s with bonus (not including 401k, health care, CME benefits).
I prefer to not take my work home and spend my time focused on family.

I you want to be one of the pods that lectures every weekend and spends evenings tinkering with inventions and preparing for expert witness cases I'm sure you can do very, very well into the millions. Even better if you can low ball new associates with 80-125k bases. I prefer to spend my free time with family and hobbies outside of work. I'd rather put money into real estate than spend time doing expert witness cases, lecturing, and product development (again ROI is much better IMO).

Again just my 2 cents.

 

[icebreaker32]

Looking longer term, what's the ceiling for a PA vs the ceiling for a podiatrist? Podiatrists can be paid for research, consulting, medical-legal work, product development etc while continuing to earn income from a busy practice. I'm willing to bet that over the life of a career a podiatrist makes far more money than a PA who's stuck 150k per year.

More money on average over an entire career probably so.

2 problems

1. More podiatrists than the profession wants to admit are not doing "average"

2. Even those that do well eventually....when you consider cost of education and length of education and lack of benefits for most in PP and compare that to a young employed PA maximizing their 401K.....it gives many DPMs doing well a run for their money (pun intended)

The intangibles

work/life balance.....the ability to have better benefits, more vacation, find a job where they want, leave a current job if they want and find a job easily in the same area, and the ability to increase or decrease hours etc

Solo practice in podiatry locks one in and one with a good employed job knows if things are not going well they might have difficulty finding another good job and might have to move for it etc

 

[Foot&AnkleSurgeon]

150k+
Many PA/NP in my MSG well into the 200s with bonus (not including 401k, health care, CME benefits).
I prefer to not take my work home and spend my time focused on family.

I you want to be one of the pods that lectures every weekend and spends evenings tinkering with inventions and preparing for expert witness cases I'm sure you can do very, very well into the millions. Even better if you can low ball new associates with 80-125k bases. I prefer to spend my free time with family and hobbies outside of work. I'd rather put money into real estate than spend time doing expert witness cases, lecturing, and product development (again ROI is much better IMO).

Again just my 2 cents.

Or all of that AND real estate. As professionals we have a lot of good choices to make a living.

 

[air bud]

Long time lurker here. Graduated a solid residency a few years ago and did a well known fellowship (Pre-Covid). Wanted to end up on west coast and did fellowship to be more competitive. Job market was awful with majority of positions being private practice with base salaries 80-125k with terrible bonus structures (30% of collections after 300k, etc), no sign on bonus or moving allowance, no family healthcare, $1000 or less for CME, 2-3 week off a year, no 401k.

After residency and fellowship with interest loans were >300k
There is no way anyone with a family, mortgage, car payment, etc could pay that off inside of 10 years earning <150k

I held out and found a position with a MSG in a less desirable region. When I came in for the interview they said >50 other people applied for the same position and they decided to close the applications. I had remote family ties to the region and spent an extra year with fellowship which is what helped me get the position. Salary was 2-3x most private practice offers with extensive benefits. I GOT LUCKY.

Its a joke when pp jobs are offering 80-125k starting when NP/PA base salaries in my region are 150k+ wRVU production bonus (150k is the floor). Podiatry is oversaturated with too many schools out to make a buck and too many residencies that shouldn't be in existence.

I do have some friends that were able to find very good job offers but they are in the middle of nowhere (Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, etc)

If I was applying today knowing what I know now I would recommend seriously looking into PA school as the ROI in current market is much better vs Podiatry.

2 years in PA school (~100k debt) --> 150k+ (super high demand, can live where you want)
vs
4 years in Podiatry school + 3 years of residency + 1 year fellowship (250-300k debt) --> 80-125K or Mid 200s if you are lucky or want to live somewhere awful

Just my 2 cents...

Welcome friend. I think I am only going to speak through memes going forward.

 

[Hallux Flaccidus]

Sir, the event was hosted and integrated into SDN. We as regular posters continuously to post up to date, relevant information for prospective students and current students so they are aware of numerous other issues that our schools and governing boards do not disclose or discuss. We are not disgruntled as posters above have also stated. As Lee Rogers said above - free speech on an online forum and we are graciously providing our time to type this out and provide multiple avenues of insight that prospective students likely would not have gained elsewhere.

Among your multiple avenues of insight which you graciously provide is calling out the name of a colleague whom you do not even know and then attempting to belittle him with inaccurate and demeaning assertions. What purpose does that serve the viewers and participants of the SDN site?

 

[air bud]

Among your multiple avenues of insight which you graciously provide is calling out the name of a colleague whom you do not even know and then attempting to belittle him with inaccurate and demeaning assertions. What purpose does that serve the viewers and participants of the SDN site?

He got likes, quotes from anonymous people on the interwebs. This is how the internet works. Sounds like a win to me.

 

[air bud]

 

[Hallux Flaccidus]

Wow. First of all, I would like to thank DR. Richie for his comments. For someone to show enough disrespect to refer to him as “Mr.” Richie, it’s unacceptable.

Doug Richie has likely forgotten more than most of you have ever known. And yes, he also performed surgery in addition to his vast biomechanical knowledge.

He deserves the respect of everyone in the profession. He’s earned it.

I do take issue with Dr. Rogers comments on the disgruntled posters on this site. I know several of them and they are skilled and professionally and financially successful.

To default to calling people angry, disgruntled, unsuccessful is simply dodging the real issues.

Forget about MGMA for a minute. Isn’t the APMA the organization who stated the avg DPM income is about $134,000? My dental hygienist makes $84,000 a year.

Have you ever tried logging into a medical site for “all medical professions”? When it asks for your profession and there is a drop-down menu, how many times have you seen every possible medical professional listed with the exception of DPMs.

Dr. Rogers is obviously licensed in TX. Anyone applying for that license now does not do it via a state medical board, but does it via the Texas Dept or Licenses and Regulations. Yep, DPMs are in there with plumbers, morticians, butchers, bakers and candle stick makers. It’s truly embarrassing.

This is also true in several other states including Florida.

I am not disgruntled and have been very successful in this profession. But I know many who weren’t as fortunate.

There is too much inconsistency with training. There are residency programs in NYC that should be shut down and doctors should literally be arrested. And these doctors are TRAINING an entire new batch of doctors who should be arrested.

Since I’ve been involved with residency training my entire career, I’ve gained the trust of many residents who have asked me to look over contracts and job offers. This residency is a very high quality and academic program with excellent attendings and ethical doctors.

In the last 10 years I have yet to see more than ONE contract I thought was even remotely fair and that holds true when comparing those numbers to Dr. Rogers comments regarding remuneration.

The offers I’ve seen these young docs get are pitiful.

So it’s not disgruntled, etc., it’s simply factual and disappointing that our profession is in the present situation. For every young doc who you can tell me is making MGMA or more, I can show you 10 who aren’t making 1/2 of MGMA. And again, that’s more consistent with the APMA avg of $134.000 ish.

You can’t sweep this under the carpet or dilute it by having a barrage of happy campers suddenly start posting on this site that everything is euphoric. Let THEM explain the APMA avg income.

I have nothing but respect for Dr. Richie and understand his concerns. I’ve never heard him say or write anything I didn’t consider valid.

But I still don’t understand the ABPM stance. I don’t know how their CAQ is going to “protect” the public any more than the ABFAS and the concerns about those who were grandfathered.

I guess I’m old school and always believed in making changes from within the organization. So if you don’t like ABFAS rules, etc., pass the exam and make changes from within. I’ve done that in many organizations and institutions over the years. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t. But I always tried.

It seems like now they twisted the comment “if you can’t beat them, join them” to “if you can’t join them, try to beat them”.

This will simply result in more bad blood within the profession, more divisiveness and more laughter from those outside the profession.

Thank you for your comments as well !

 

[newfeet]

View attachment 360051

Love the memes!

 

[Hallux Flaccidus]

He got likes, quotes from anonymous people on the interwebs. This is how the internet works. Sounds like a win to me.

Wonderful ! What a noble purpose you serve.

 

[GreenHousePub]

There are residency programs in NYC that should be shut down and doctors should literally be arrested. And these doctors are TRAINING an entire new batch of doctors who should be arrested.

Openly laughed at this statement.

 

[deleted1138023]

We honestly need less organizations, groups. It's really dumb and confusing. We need to be unified.

 

[FedPod]

Regarding the ROI argument
RN/ PA / APRN /CRNA route is unquestionably a better financial decision.

I am very happy with my career path. But , I know that I have been lucky.

I definitely wouldn’t want the life of a PA and be a life long resident.

APRN/ CRNA offer enticing ROI. But who knows what the over saturation of online NP’s and the slowly increasing number of CRNA programs do to this demand.

If I’m asked advice by someone unsure of a career path. I suggest RN. It just offers so many options.
It would have been such a financial relief to be able to work a few prn shifts at RN wages during pod school or residency.

Im sure this has been posted many times, but :

“Congress passed the RAISE Act as part of the $1.5 trillion omnibus spending bill for fiscal 2022.

The bill will allow advanced practice registered nurses and physician assistants at the VA to make up to $226,300 annually, while other registered nurses would make up $203,700. Those positions are currently capped at $176,300 a year.”

Compared to the VA staff podiatrist max of 243k(280k service chief)

Omnibus spending bill sets higher maximum salaries for some VA health care workers

Registered nurses and physicians assistants working at the Veterans Affairs Department will soon have a higher maximum salary, as part of an effort in Congress to reduce record turnover among the VA’s health care workforce.

federalnewsnetwork.com

https://www.va.gov/OHRM/Pay/2021/PhysicianDentist/PayTables_20210103.pdf

 

[air bud]

Love the memes!

Have an interview tomorrow so will be light on the memes.

 

[air bud]

Just picked up a bottle of Michters Barrel Strength Rye.....so one more

 

[de Ribas]

Welcome friend. I think I am only going to speak through memes going forward.

View attachment 360049

There was a webinar held by one of the West Penn grads, fellowship trained. To the question about what one can expect to earn after residency, that practicing podiatrist said 90k is very good number and went on to say that anywhere from 70-120k is fair. 150k is exceptionally well. This was earlier this year. That's just crazy and should make any prospective students think 10 times before signing those loans.

 

[de Ribas]

We honestly need less organizations, groups. It's really dumb and confusing. We need to be unified.

Exactly. 20+ different organizations, boards, colleges for the profession that graduates around 600 ppl per year. None of them has clearly defined roles nor successful at achieving them.

 

[air bud]

Got up early for you guys to get some work done

 

[Foot&AnkleSurgeon]

There was a webinar held by one of the West Penn grads, fellowship trained. To the question about what one can expect to earn after residency, that practicing podiatrist said 90k is very good number and went on to say that anywhere from 70-120k is fair. 150k is exceptionally well. This was earlier this year. That's just crazy and should make any prospective students think 10 times before signing those loans.

Agree. College tuition (undergrad, grad school) is absolutely ridiculous and it's encouraged by the government. The colleges increase tuition knowing the government will support increases by offering loans to naive students. Colleges and the government are in bed together. College tuition overall is too high. The pod schools need to obtain state government support (like UTRGV) to reduce the cost of tuition. The "increased costs" need to be taken on by the SOP's, not the students. I'd like to see the other SOP's bring tuition down to $18,000/year. That would help the profession. Compete or perish.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Anonymous haters gonna hate.

On one hand, some of you complain about the ROI of Podiatry education, then a new state-sponsored school comes along with low/reasonable tuition, and you still complain.

You complain about the quality of education, then the UTRGV school has recruited some real stars as professors (and they’re about to announce another) and you still complain.

You complain about podiatry salaries, and the UTRGV school pays UT wages, far higher than other podiatry schools making them more competitive, and you still complain.

You complain that the applicant pool is too small. Then the UTRGV school doesn’t even participate in AACPMAS, they have their own in-state applicant pool. Already 150 applications for next year (deadline isn’t until June), and you still complain.

You throw around insults like it’s rural, on the border, no one wants to live there, yet look …

The State of Texas believes podiatry is so invaluable to the state that they’re spending tax dollars to educate and create more DPMs here and improve the health of Texans. It’s a moment you should be proud of for the whole profession.

I’m proud of what they’re doing.

#PodiatryForward

 

[de Ribas]

Anonymous haters gonna hate.

On one hand, some of you complain about the ROI of Podiatry education, then a new state-sponsored school comes along with low/reasonable tuition, and you still complain.

You complain about the quality of education, then the UTRGV school has recruited some real stars as professors (and they’re about to announce another) and you still complain.

You complain about podiatry salaries, and the UTRGV school pays UT wages, far higher than other podiatry schools making them more competitive, and you still complain.

You complain that the applicant pool is too small. Then the UTRGV school doesn’t even participate in AACPMAS, they have their own in-state applicant pool. Already 150 applications for next year (deadline isn’t until June), and you still complain.

You throw around insults like it’s rural, on the border, no one wants to live there, yet look …

The State of Texas believes podiatry is so invaluable to the state that they’re spending tax dollars to educate and create more DPMs here and improve the health of Texans. It’s a moment you should be proud of for the whole profession.

I’m proud of what they’re doing.

#PodiatryForward

Even if they do not participate in AACPMAS, will they participate in CRIP? Or will have their own residency programs? I don't see how not participating in ACPMAS addresses previously stated concerns.

Even if a new school will have better education, which I highly doubt, the solution is not to open 9 more schools but rather improve the ones that already exist. I don't understand how it can be a smart move to open another school considering there are only 700-800 applicants for 600 seats.

Every school wants to fill all their seats. Opening new schools will not make established schools reduce their class sizes. They will keep filling their seats. As long as number of applicants is higher than available seats, all schools will fill their seats but the quality of students will go down significantly.

What you have mentioned above does nothing to address inconsistency and poor quality of residency programs. Students of UTRGV will compete for same residency spots. If they will be competitive, they will just push other students into weak, VA and other programs that usually have their spots unfilled. Just reinforces the problem.

 

[de Ribas]

Got up early for you guys to get some work done

View attachment 360093

It's funny how CPME supported opening of a new school but does not support CAQs proposed by the same people.

 

[PatchAdamsFan]

On one hand, some of you complain about the ROI of Podiatry education, then a new state-sponsored school comes along with low/reasonable tuition, and you still complain.

Are we going to conveniently ignore the 7-year opportunity cost of this education? Time is far more important than money, and while the school may be somewhat cheaper, it is correct that the ROI is absolutely not there for the majority of graduates.

You complain about the quality of education, then the UTRGV school has recruited some real stars as professors (and they’re about to announce another) and you still complain.

I believe most of the posters here are discussing the quality of residency education and training. That is the main problem to address. Top students will come from all schools, but if someone completes a sub-par residency (plenty to go around), they are out of luck.

You complain about podiatry salaries, and the UTRGV school pays UT wages, far higher than other podiatry schools making them more competitive, and you still complain.

I do not understand this point at all. We are discussing the poor compensation for new residency grads, not how comfortable these new professors will be in their roles. The majority of grads will go into associate positions in private practice, I think you know as well as anyone that the numbers are abysmal.

You complain that the applicant pool is too small. Then the UTRGV school doesn’t even participate in AACPMAS, they have their own in-state applicant pool. Already 150 applications for next year (deadline isn’t until June), and you still complain.

Again, a main point of discourse is the matriculant numbers being TOO HIGH. The supply and demand for "good" jobs is just not there with the current student and resident population. You do not need to look further than a simple job board to see 100 applicants for 1 hospital position paying a fair salary.

You throw around insults like it’s rural, on the border, no one wants to live there, yet look

I have no comment here, but again the rural/border statements are fact. If you believe that is an insult... okay.

The State of Texas believes podiatry is so invaluable to the state that they’re spending tax dollars to educate and create more DPMs here and improve the health of Texans. It’s a moment you should be proud of for the whole profession.

There may well be a shortage of podiatry access in the most rural of rural areas, but let us not pretend that there was some serious lobbying going on to get this project to fruition. To see who this will benefit.. time will tell.


Dr. Rogers, I would encourage you to read through this forum more closely to understand what we are discussing and arguing for. Most of us are not disgruntled, most of us are 1-5 years out practicing in this current podiatry climate. I can assure you that most of our colleagues will echo our thoughts as well. I am familiar with your involvement in furthering our field, so I am assuming you are not being malicious with your straw-man statements.

 

[icebreaker32]

Less debt for students by going to a state school is a great thing.

A good faculty paid fairly is a great thing.

Will it give preference to Texas residents? I am not saying it is good or bad things either way just curious.

I do not think the timing (or location) is ideal, but the school has been in the works for decades.

Now that the school is here I wish them success and all the students that attend.

Regardless of the number of schools my opinion is that the number of seats needs to decrease drastically. I understand the schools can not realistically voluntarily do this.

We need optimistic and forward thinking leaders in our profession, but we need to also be honest in telling potential students that a microcosm of podiatry has treated me well and most of my residents have done well is not necessarily an honest representation of this profession as a whole. Most of us can certainly relate most to our own experiences, but podiatry as career has some well known concerns even if we have not experienced them personally.

How many on here have said I am doing well and enjoy podiatry but got lucky?

Being honest about the job market and past residency shortages should enrollment increase is a moral responsibility (in my opinion) for all that come in contact with potential students through their job. As long as you have done that, the potential student can make their decision. It is great if one is doing their part to make the profession better.

The leaders need to take an honest look at why the numbers are down....it is NOT SDN. They also need to take an honest look and consider if it might actually be for the best numbers are down and come up with a plan.

Potential students should view SDN not as the authority, but as one of many resources to educate themselves on this profession.

 

[PTPuser]

Potential students should view SDN not as the authority, but as one of many resources to educate themselves on this profession.

And this is the part that I think higher-up completely miss. Just because the truth has more "negatives" to it, I don't think it's straight up bashing the field, lol.

I'm so tired of the glass half full mentality.

Lay it all out, and if you made the decision to still go into it after the little voice told you not to (like I did) you lay in it and pray that you'll get lucky too.

 

[Foot&AnkleSurgeon]

Anonymous haters gonna hate.

On one hand, some of you complain about the ROI of Podiatry education, then a new state-sponsored school comes along with low/reasonable tuition, and you still complain.

You complain about the quality of education, then the UTRGV school has recruited some real stars as professors (and they’re about to announce another) and you still complain.

You complain about podiatry salaries, and the UTRGV school pays UT wages, far higher than other podiatry schools making them more competitive, and you still complain.

You complain that the applicant pool is too small. Then the UTRGV school doesn’t even participate in AACPMAS, they have their own in-state applicant pool. Already 150 applications for next year (deadline isn’t until June), and you still complain.

You throw around insults like it’s rural, on the border, no one wants to live there, yet look …

The State of Texas believes podiatry is so invaluable to the state that they’re spending tax dollars to educate and create more DPMs here and improve the health of Texans. It’s a moment you should be proud of for the whole profession.

I’m proud of what they’re doing.

#PodiatryForward

All good points. UTRGV SOP is setting a new and higher standard. Bravo! You know you're over the target when receiving flack.

The next question you will receive is about increasing residency spots to accommodate 27 new grads in four years. Will your residency satisfy ABFAS requirements for RRA? Are enough cases done? Not just diabetic pus feet in San Antonio. How many spots will your program have?

 

[Foot&AnkleSurgeon]

And this is the part that I think higher-up completely miss. Just because the truth has more "negatives" to it, I don't think it's straight up bashing the field, lol.

I'm so tired of the glass half full mentality.

Lay it all out, and if you made the decision to still go into it after the little voice told you not to (like I did) you lay in it and pray that you'll get lucky too.

I (and others) don't believe "the truth has more negatives". You are in charge of your destiny. A glass half full mentality proves helpful and a negative mindset is burdensome never helping with success.

Jordan Peterson is excellent. This is a long video but very helpful: jordon peterson - Bing video

 

[deleted1138023]

Why is everyone just ignoring the fact that LECOM is opening a school as well…?