You're really on your own in medschool ...

[persia]

I posted recently about the misery of our anatomy course and of faculty who are completely indifferent to the students who are failing or barely passing. The attention goes to the star students and the rest of us are really left on our own. I also had some really rough encounters with the course director who basically said he didn't give **** if we failed or not.

I went to talk to the dean of students today and he was also the same way, and the message I got was that they LOVE this course director and there must be something wrong with me if I don't feel the same way. He was doing a great job and he didn't 'understand' any of what I was describing. Ok, I am not stupid. It's obvious that we are on our own for the next four years and that any issues we might have will be ignored. I can't see myself ever approaching the dean's office about anything again except my dean's letter for residency.

Do other people feel that their dean of students' office is supportive or is all that talk of "we're here for you" really just bs? I'm thinking now that it's all bs. Plenty of upperclassmen have agreed with my interpretation of the situation with the course and its director, but of course no one wants to say anything outloud. But at least my intuition is right on, and it's good to get the validation. This stinks ...

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[pikachu]

I feel the same way about the student affairs administration at my school. Frankly I'm surprised you've made it this far into the educational system still believing that any school administrator cares about the students.

On the bright side, a single anatomy class does not your med school career make. i know it seems like it's the most important thing in the entire world right now, but it's not. I got a "C" in anatomy and I made it through the rest of med school just fine, I'm a 4th year and have my first residency interview tomorrow. So it does get better. One thing you do learn in med school is to rely on yourself. Don't expect anything from the administration or from the instructors. you will be lucky to find a mentor whom you trust - use them for support and forget about your squirrely administrators.

 

[X.O.]

What school do you attend? I find that most schools at the top end coddle their students while those from the middle to the bottom is all about self-suffiency.

 

[jeffsleepy]

Did you guys go to a private undergrad or something?

At large state schools, nobody has time to care about you.

 

[beanbean]

I have had nothing but positive experiences with the Academic Dean and Dean of Students at UCONN. The faculty and course directors have been very supportive. I gave birth to my son a couple of weeks into MS1 and received any support I needed from fellow students, faculty and the Dean's offices. Other students have relayed the same sentiments and I feel very lucky to be in such an environment.

That being said, learning in med school is your responsibility. There will always be bad lectures, ambiguous exam questions, and times when you can't find anyone to answer a question for you. For the most part they teach us well, but there are always some frustrating moments.

Sorry you are having a rough time of anatomy. Remember, this to will pass....

 

[SarahGM]

I've found it to be a very different experience at my school. My younger sibling is really ill, so I've had to go home a lot this first semester... and my grades really reflect the time missed. My professor (THE head honcho) emailed me while I was at home to set me up with tutors, and meets with me periodically to make sure I'm caught up to speed. I've gotten several emails from the administration, etc, offering places to go and turn to for help... it's been a very, very positive experience despite the unfortunate circumstances.

 

[efex101]

Mayo takes care of all of us amazingly well and if we do have concerns they address them immediately be it needing extra tutoring, additional study materials, etc. They are always there for us and I have had nothing but positive experiences here. Good luck and hopefully things will get better soon!

 

[pillowhead]

I'd have to say my school has been pretty responsive to the needs of its medical students. Not to say we don't have problems, but if the students approach the deans and course directors in a calm, rational way, they're usually pretty helpful both academically and emotionally. You just can't whine and complain about every little thing...sometimes little things are unfair, but it's usually insignificant compared when looking at the bigger picture, so it's easiest just to suck it up and get over it. Especially if you're the only person with the problem. If everyone seems to be having the same issue, that's a different story.

 

[mikedc813]

I amazed by how the faculty at my school is seemingly so interested in how the students are doing. They actively promote us to find faculty if we have questions and keep telling us that they're here for us. It's a great feeling, and one of the main reasons why I chose the school in the first place.

 

[erin682]

Did you guys go to a private undergrad or something?

At large state schools, nobody has time to care about you.

I go to a state school and they are great at watching out for us. They don't coddle but our course directors (with the exception of one) are all really concerned for people who are struggling. Thats part of the reason I chose my school over others. I guess like most things it really depends on where you go.

 

[care bear]

What school do you attend? I find that most schools at the top end coddle their students while those from the middle to the bottom is all about self-suffiency.

hm, i think there may be some truth to this! i attended a private ivy for undergrad and i was DEFINITELY 'coddled'

med school at a mid-tier school was and is a big shock. of course, med school anywhere is a big shock for lots of reasons- but i'm specifically referring here to the student- administration relationship.

i am wondering, given the ppl who have chimed in from places like mayo and columbia saying their schools are 'so supportive', if there isn't a good deal of truth in the general stereotype that top-end schools just tend to put more energy and care into their students.

oh well, it's too late to switch schools now not like i had tons of options for med school, anyway

but yeah, to answer the original post of this thread, i have definitely found that you are indeed 'on your own' in med school.

 

[phoenixsupra]

I posted recently about the misery of our anatomy course and of faculty who are completely indifferent to the students who are failing or barely passing. The attention goes to the star students and the rest of us are really left on our own. I also had some really rough encounters with the course director who basically said he didn't give **** if we failed or not.
...

It's been EXACTLY the same way in every class you've ever taken. You just used to be one of the stars. You're experiencing the same thing from a different perspective. Classrooms suck. This experience will help you understand most of your patients better and why many of them aren't nearly as fond of authority as we tend to be. Good luck.

 

[persia]

Well I never expected any hand holding or anything but here's the thread if anyone wants to know the details of what I am talking about. Believe me, I am not a baby and I sure don't expect special treatment.

I have had ivy league and I've had public schools, but this I have never experienced.




I won't say where I am, because it's a small school, but yes, it is a state school - for what that's worth. I used to think that state schools were better because you do actually get better attention sometimes. I mean, in the ivy's I found that the professors were pretty inaccessible and in states people were more laid back. I dunno anymore, my head hurts and I feel depressed ...

 

[tupac_don]

I posted recently about the misery of our anatomy course and of faculty who are completely indifferent to the students who are failing or barely passing. The attention goes to the star students and the rest of us are really left on our own. I also had some really rough encounters with the course director who basically said he didn't give **** if we failed or not.

I went to talk to the dean of students today and she was also the same way, and the message I got was that they LOVE this course director and there must be something wrong with me if I don't feel the same way. He was doing a great job and she didn't 'understand' any of what I was describing. Ok, I am not stupid. It's obvious that we are on our own for the next four years and that any issues we might have will be ignored. I can't see myself ever approaching the dean's office about anything again except my dean's letter for residency.

Do other people feel that their dean of students' office is supportive or is all that talk of "we're here for you" really just bs? I'm thinking now that it's all bs. Plenty of upperclassmen have agreed with my interpretation of the situation with the course and its director, but of course no one wants to say anything outloud. But at least my intuition is right on, and it's good to get the validation. This stinks ...

How about this for you. One girl wasn't doing well, so she complained to the dean, and he said, "Don't worry, there is always next year!!!"

 

[CaptainJack02]

How about this for you. One girl wasn't doing well, so she complained to the dean, and he said, "Don't worry, there is always next year!!!"

he sounds like a super cool guy

 

[X.O.]

I won't say where I am, because it's a small school, but yes, it is a state school - for what that's worth. I used to think that state schools were better because you do actually get better attention. I mean, in the ivy's I found that the professors were pretty inaccessible and in states people were more laid back. I dunno anymore, my head hurts and I feel depressed ...

Not all Ivys are the same. Some of them are huge honkin state schools in disguise. I agree with the person who said that it sucks to be the guppie in a new pond. Sometimes its good to be the giant among the midgets.

Anyone care to speculate? Small state school in the west excluding Cali. My guess is Oregon or perhaps U Wash that has the sucky anatomy course.

 

[phoenixsupra]

Persia, what you describe is similar to my anatomy course. But my course is supposed to be one of the best in the nation. I didn't have a problem. I liked anatomy cuz it was visual. But one thing that differs at my school is that we had free tutoring for those who were sturggling. Now there's free tutoring for anyone who wants it. I worked as a tutor this year cuz I need money.

What I found is that the struggling students were well able for the work but had zero concept of how hard they had to work. The wall you are hitting is probably about a tenth of how hard you have to work.

Get tons of past papers. Also try studying the notes with someone you like. Just quiz each other mercilously untill you both know it backwards. Feel free to pm me with any questions.

But the classroom is torture for those who are struggling. All classrooms. When you're doing real well they're not so bad. It's a matter of perspective.

 

[deleted29780]

pretty interesting contributions by all of you. No human institution is perfect. There are a few pitfalls with the ed system in Ghana. I have learnt a lot today. Thx guys.

 

[DrYo12]

Anyone care to speculate? Small state school in the west excluding Cali. My guess is Oregon or perhaps U Wash that has the sucky anatomy course.

Not in CA, considering that it says "Location: California"?

 

[phoenixsupra]

Quit trying to guess her location, jerkwads. If she wanted to disclose it she would have.

 

[8744]

I posted recently about the misery of our anatomy course and of faculty who are completely indifferent to the students who are failing or barely passing. The attention goes to the star students and the rest of us are really left on our own. I also had some really rough encounters with the course director who basically said he didn't give **** if we failed or not.

I went to talk to the dean of students today and she was also the same way, and the message I got was that they LOVE this course director and there must be something wrong with me if I don't feel the same way. He was doing a great job and she didn't 'understand' any of what I was describing. Ok, I am not stupid. It's obvious that we are on our own for the next four years and that any issues we might have will be ignored. I can't see myself ever approaching the dean's office about anything again except my dean's letter for residency.

Do other people feel that their dean of students' office is supportive or is all that talk of "we're here for you" really just bs? I'm thinking now that it's all bs. Plenty of upperclassmen have agreed with my interpretation of the situation with the course and its director, but of course no one wants to say anything outloud. But at least my intuition is right on, and it's good to get the validation. This stinks ...

Welcome to the real world. Get used to it. You lead a pretty sheltered life, didn't you?

 

[phoenixsupra]

Welcome to the real world. Get used to it. You lead a pretty sheltered life, didn't you?

I'm just curious. OP, is the above statement true? Sometimes, it's those who've had the roughest deal who expect and demand authority to hold to it's word. An unreal expectation IMHO. It's word is wallpaper at best. OP can you shed any light on this?

 

[DrYo12]

Quit trying to guess her location, jerkwads. If she wanted to disclose it she would have.

fair enough. sorry.

 

[persia]

Thanks for all the comments guys, and you're probably right. I am definitely not sheltered but I guess I believed all the hype about we're here for you and we'll help you any way we can. I wanted to have that be true. Mostly, the faculty are pretty insensitive to all but the best students, and I am not used to being treated like an irritation when in fact I am just trying to learn along with the rest. But I don't think I am treated differently from alot of the other students. They ignore us equally, which I guess you could say was being fair ...

It just bothers me to be struggling all lab period and yet we see the senior faculty spending almost the whole three hours helping the top students. I want help too.

But that's life I guess, sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

 

[phoenixsupra]

Yeah, I like your attitude. I sort of wanted to believe that crap myself too at first. The faculty were all the "superstars" (sniveling twerps) of their own class. Who are they going to identify with? And what sort of perspective do they have? Good luck. And I mean it about shooting me a pm with any questions about how to attack anatomy.

 

[8744]

I'm just curious. OP, is the above statement true? Sometimes, it's those who've had the roughest deal who expect and demand authority to hold to it's word. An unreal expectation IMHO. It's word is wallpaper at best. OP can you shed any light on this?

Good point. I was just observing that while it is nice to get support from others, we should not expect it all the time. Now, at my school they bend over backwards to help us. On the other hand I have never really needed the help. All you have to do to succeed in medical school is to pass all of your classes and electives whichis something that ultimately nobody can help you with.

 

[modemduck]

Thanks for all the comments guys, and you're probably right. I am definitely not sheltered but I guess I believed all the hype about we're here for you and we'll help you any way we can. I wanted to have that be true. Mostly, the faculty are pretty insensitive to all but the best students, and I am not used to being treated like an irritation when in fact I am just trying to learn along with the rest. But I don't think I am treated differently from alot of the other students. They ignore us equally, which I guess you could say was being fair ...

It just bothers me to be struggling all lab period and yet we see the senior faculty spending almost the whole three hours helping the top students. I want help too.

But that's life I guess, sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

Hey Persia,
Sorry to hear you are struggling but seriously hang in there; my 1st semester of medical school I partied quite a bit and got rocked on the first exam block. To do well after having your confidence broken takes a LOT of energy and commitment. Just to let you know, most people struggle in medical school and it is very easy to feel stupid on a daily basis. Almost no one will admit to their struggles in medical school face to face b/c it exposes weakness. For me, I had to work my butt off for the rest of 1st and 2nd year and on the boards it truly paid off.

Just by telling us your story I am sure that you are trying and you want to succeed and even though you don't have direct support from the administration, realize this: there were hundreds of other students they decided not to pick for admission... take confidence in your past victories and realize that being middle of the class at any medical school is an accomplishment.

- RA
MS3
pm me if specific advice is needed

 

[AF_PedsBoy]

Our anatomy professor was a superstar, always willing to help and incredibly friendly, but the caveat was you'd have to go ask him to come over to your table because he would just stay with the group and help them until all their questions were answered (and when, in anatomy as a first year, are all your questions EVER answered? ) However with one professor and fifty students, understandably no matter how much he cared he couldn't being everyone up to speed. The way we did it was our groups would often happen to be around on weekends (or, say, the NIGHT BEFORE A PRACTICAL!) and we would migrate from corpse to corpse and point stuff out on each others' corpses. So break the radio out, and spend a relaxing Saturday chillin' with your classmates in a room with 10 formaldehyde-soaked corpses...

My school (DUCOM) the teachers seem to be, for the most part, friendly and accessible. However, for the few that are not, if you go to the deans they seem to be friendly and impotent. Or at least they SAY they are. My dean made me feel all better after talking to him, but when I walked out the door I realized he did squat for my academic problems...

 

[peehdee]

well, duh!
they have to say that. and i think they mean it. but as an adult you should realize that everyone is not going to be happy. what usually makes a person happy is, if the person in position of power appear to 'go out of their way' to make you feel better. so that all depends on the person in power. you can't make a general statement.

med school is far more not 'on your own' than say graduate school. in grad school you're expected to act and be adults. period. there are no special offices or groups that will provide 'support' for you. some med students need to be nurtured.

I posted recently about the misery of our anatomy course and of faculty who are completely indifferent to the students who are failing or barely passing. The attention goes to the star students and the rest of us are really left on our own. I also had some really rough encounters with the course director who basically said he didn't give **** if we failed or not.

I went to talk to the dean of students today and she was also the same way, and the message I got was that they LOVE this course director and there must be something wrong with me if I don't feel the same way. He was doing a great job and she didn't 'understand' any of what I was describing. Ok, I am not stupid. It's obvious that we are on our own for the next four years and that any issues we might have will be ignored. I can't see myself ever approaching the dean's office about anything again except my dean's letter for residency.

Do other people feel that their dean of students' office is supportive or is all that talk of "we're here for you" really just bs? I'm thinking now that it's all bs. Plenty of upperclassmen have agreed with my interpretation of the situation with the course and its director, but of course no one wants to say anything outloud. But at least my intuition is right on, and it's good to get the validation. This stinks ...

 

[care bear]

med school is far more not 'on your own' than say graduate school. in grad school you're expected to act and be adults. period. there are no special offices or groups that will provide 'support' for you. some med students need to be nurtured.

with ALL due respect, honestly, i think the presence of offices to provide support, etc is less due to the fact that 'med students need to be nurtured' and more due to the fact that med school is just more draining than many graduate programs. med students are expected to be adults, too. like- seeing patients? i don't know how much more 'adult' you can get than that. but med school is so grueling that they know they have to have some type of support system in place to keep people from killing themselves and i'm only halfway joking!

 

[Vacant]

Many of you speak of med education as if it is the most hardest thing to achieve. And yet there are thousands each year graduating as MDs. If it were so hard, there should be significantly higher number of drop-out rates. Or, better, only a handful individuals should be achieving it. Yes, there are overwhelming amount of facts to memorize. Yes, there are many sleepless nights. Yes, one must stand and run around all day. But I still think it's mentally and physically easier, much easier, than, say, working at a pitch dark mine drilling holes into rocks drinking in dusty thin air while the manager keeps yelling and cursing at you from 5am to 3pm, not to mention the constant risk of dying crushed by a pile of sharp heavy rocks at any wicked moment. On the otherside is, say, theoretical physicists whom I consider the only true scientists and power thinkers. (Now, don't argue with me that biology is not the easiest and the least intellectual science. Remember, the actual explosion of biological discoveries were made after the WWII when the disillusioned subatomic physicists migrated into biology.) I've always been #1 in math at schools both in Far East Asia (where math skills are just on a wholy different dimension) and, of course here, in the US (getting 800 on math section both in SAT and GRE is really a joke and nothing to be proud of. Say that to Taiwaneses or Koreans and you will be laughed at.) Yet I know I'm just not intellectually qualified to handle the materials in theoretical physics, which is the reason why I respect them.

My point: yes, med education is not easy and take lots of dedicated, constant efforts to maintain. But let's not make it sounds like it's the most difficult thing and that we need some kind of respect from others for having gone through it. Let's cut the crab and just do what we have to do to pass the course. I know one needs not have 150 and above IQ to be a doc. I've seen docs with around 120. You need well above 150 to be a theoretical physicist and a massive work habit and extreme humility to work at a mine. And I know most of us don't even come close to these two extremes.

Any challenging disagreement or further complaints about how hard your life is? Perhaps med schools should start requiring kids to have some years of work experiences after undergrad before applying.

 

[modemduck]

Many of you speak of med education as if it is the most hardest thing to achieve. And yet there are thousands each year graduating as MDs. If it were so hard, there should be significantly higher number of drop-out rates. Or, better, only a handful individuals should be achieving it. Yes, there are overwhelming amount of facts to memorize. Yes, there are many sleepless nights. Yes, one must stand and run around all day. But I still think it's mentally and physically easier, much easier, than, say, working at a pitch dark mine drilling holes into rocks drinking in dusty thin air while the manager keeps yelling and cursing at you from 5am to 3pm, not to mention the constant risk of dying crushed by a pile of sharp heavy rocks at any wicked moment. On the otherside is, say, theoretical physicists whom I consider the only true scientists and power thinkers. (Now, don't argue with me that biology is not the easiest and the least intellectual science. Remember, the actual explosion of biological discoveries were made after the WWII when the disillusioned subatomic physicists migrated into biology.) I've always been #1 in math at schools both in Far East Asia (where math skills are just on a wholy different dimension) and, of course here, in the US (getting 800 on math section both in SAT and GRE is really a joke and nothing to be proud of. Say that to Taiwaneses or Koreans and you will be laughed at.) Yet I know I'm just not intellectually qualified to handle the materials in theoretical physics, which is the reason why I respect them.

My point: yes, med education is not easy and take lots of dedicated, constant efforts to maintain. But let's not make it sounds like it's the most difficult thing and that we need some kind of respect from others for having gone through it. Let's cut the crab and just do what we have to do to pass the course. I know one needs not have 150 and above IQ to be a doc. I've seen docs with around 120. You need well above 150 to be a theoretical physicist and a massive work habit and extreme humility to work at a mine. And I know most of us don't even come close to these two extremes.

Any challenging disagreement or further complaints about how hard your life is? Perhaps med schools should start requiring kids to have some years of work experiences after undergrad before applying.

wow, i wish I had the math skills of a korean 8th grader
the dedication of a coal miner
the genius of a disillusioned subatomic physicist
and the maturity of someone with a couple years work experience
but we are just med students... pretty much an average, run of the mill crowd


Vacant, you should just reread your post; you seem like a nice enough guy... but nobody talked about any of those things... people are just saying it is tough in medical school and that they want some support. maybe you can help the OP with your insane #1 in far east asia math skill set. btw, your post sounds like you are in undergrad

 

[phoenixsupra]

wow, i wish I had the math skills of a korean 8th grader
the dedication of a coal miner
the genius of a disillusioned subatomic physicist
and the maturity of someone with a couple years work experience
but we are just med students... pretty much an average, run of the mill crowd


Vacant, you should just reread your post; you seem like a nice enough guy... but nobody talked about any of those things... people are just saying it is tough in medical school and that they want some support. maybe you can help the OP with your insane #1 in far east asia math skill set. btw, your post sounds like you are in undergrad

Ha ha. That's funny. Vacant - sound's like maybe you'd like to be a theoretical physicist? Go ahead. Chase your dream. You seem pissed about much of the pretension and conceit that is everywhere in medicine. I don't blame you for that. And you're right, we have it pretty good by relative standards. But that's not the point. Medicine is not like any other workplace. It's important that we be caring compassionate individuals and not a bunch of cynical hardasses. Do you really go around guessing what people would score on an IQ test? You do know that's odd, don't you? I agree that you seem like a smart nice guy with your heart in the right place. I recomend you read a book called "emotional intelligence" by Daniel Goleman. Really, I bet you'd find it interesting.

 

[Vacant]

wow, i wish I had the math skills of a korean 8th grader
the dedication of a coal miner
the genius of a disillusioned subatomic physicist
and the maturity of someone with a couple years work experience
but we are just med students... pretty much an average, run of the mill crowd


Vacant, you should just reread your post; you seem like a nice enough guy... but nobody talked about any of those things... people are just saying it is tough in medical school and that they want some support. maybe you can help the OP with your insane #1 in far east asia math skill set. btw, your post sounds like you are in undergrad

Sorry, I was reading several different thread and didn't realize I was writing a post to this site. I must have been confused. I told you, I'm not intelligent.

 

[AF_PedsBoy]

And as a side note, the difficulty of medical education and the low drop out rate can be reconciled if you consider that we're a very select population - not everyone goes to college (what is it, like 60%?), of those people not everyone graduates, and of the graduates not everyone is suited for the rigors of medical school.

 

[Paws]

wow, i wish I had the math skills of a korean 8th grader
the dedication of a coal miner
the genius of a disillusioned subatomic physicist
and the maturity of someone with a couple years work experience
but we are just med students... pretty much an average, run of the mill crowd

Dude!! this is why I LOVE SDN, that is pure poetry ...