Your responses are appreciated

[Mr.Happy]

My MCAT score is 27 (10 VR, 10 BS, 7 PS). My undergraduate GPA is 3.79 (BCPM GPA is slightly lower). My graduate GPA is 3.0 (GPA is skewed because my graduate classes were pass or fail)

strong ecs, strong PS, strong LORs (I think). I'm applying broadly and early to MD and DO schools. Also applying to plenty of new and low tier schools.

economically disadvantaged applicant (recieved pell grant, grew up in medically underserved area)

very unique life story and have done some strong public health work in Africa.

applying OOS everywhere, non-URM

I have all the usual clinical volunteering, physician shadowing, leadership, community service, research experience.

I will choose DO if I don't get into a MD program (and be happy about it, no doubt) but would prefer MD over DO just because there is still some stigma associated with the DO degree.

What are my chances for an MD acceptance? According to the AAMC data, I have about a 34% chance (using my MCAT score and a GPA of 3.4 (avg of my undergrad and grad GPA))

I'm especially looking for people who might have some knowledge on this issue (people who have been accepted with similar stats or know someone who has).

Note: I would like realistic answers but I do notice a tendency here of neurotic pre-meds telling anyone who scores less than a 30 that they will be rejected everywhere, tough luck. Since the average for MD matriculants is 30-31, I know that is not true. I know my MCAT score is not competitive but keep in mind that the average MCAT score of applicants is 27-28 and 45% of applicants are accepted ( applicants include people who apply late, don't have clinical experience etc.) So let's please moderate the "realism" here,. no offense to anyone.

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[Abstractions]

The first thing that stands out to me is having a very solid undergrad GPA but a 3.0 for grad GPA. In most cases, grad GPA's are thought to be "inflated" and the question that comes to my mind is "This person is obviously capable in academic environments (3.8 cGPA undergrad). Why did they get a 3.0 in grad school?"

Other than that I'd say (Mind you I'm a random person on the internet not an Adcom) you have a solid shot at low and new MD programs and all DO programs! Do you have any DO shadowing?

 

[gyngyn]

A low gpa in a Master's program will reduce enthusiasm for your application. Unless you live in a place with few applicants and a strong preference for them (e.g.Puerto Rico), your MD chances are weak. It might be reasonable to apply simultaneously to select DO programs this cycle.

 

[Mr.Happy]

The first thing that stands out to me is having a very solid undergrad GPA but a 3.0 for grad GPA. In most cases, grad GPA's are thought to be "inflated" and the question that comes to my mind is "This person is obviously capable in academic environments (3.8 cGPA undergrad). Why did they get a 3.0 in grad school?"

Other than that I'd say (Mind you I'm a random person on the internet not an Adcom) you have a solid shot at low and new MD programs and all DO programs! Do you have any DO shadowing?

Thank you for your response. Not sure what to do because I already wrote a very solid PS for my AMCAS and already submitted my AACOMAS.

Yes, I'm proud of my undergrad GPA, especially since most of my undergrad classes were honors (noted in my transcript). I hope I do get into some low tier/new schools.

 

[Mr.Happy]

A low gpa in a Master's program will reduce enthusiasm for your application. Unless you live in a place with few applicants and a strong preference for them (e.g.Puerto Rico), your MD chances are weak. It might be reasonable to apply simultaneously to select DO programs this cycle.

thank you for your honest response. I turned in my DO primaries yesterday. I hope to explain why I have a low masters GPA in my secondaries (if they give me a chance). Might I also add that I received my masters degree from the number 1 public health school in the world, hopefully the extreme rigor of the public health program will partially explain for the low GPA.

 

[Abstractions]

Thank you for your response. I gained a lot of weight just before and right after I started grad school and my struggles with morbid obesity caused me to receive those C grades. I've lost a lot of weight since then and I wrote an essay on that on my texas app but couldn't find a place to explain the poor grades in the MD or DO apps. Not sure what to do because I already wrote a very solid PS for my AMCAS and already submitted my AACOMAS.

Yes, I'm proud of my undergrad GPA, especially since most of my undergrad classes were honors (noted in my transcript). Even my grad school transcript doesn't look too bad, mostly pass grades, a few Cs and A's (3 C's spread out and 4 A's) and the rest B's. I hope I do get into some low tier/new schools.

On most MD schools secondaries, there's a place for "additional information" where I think this would be a great place to explain. I'll refrain from making speculations about how this will influence your chances as Adcoms like GynGyn have infinitely more insight than I do.

 

[gyngyn]

thank you for your honest response. I turned in my DO primaries yesterday. I hope to explain why I have a low masters GPA in my secondaries (if they give me a chance). Might I also add that I received my masters degree from the number 1 public health school in the world, hopefully the extreme rigor of the public health program will partially explain for the low GPA.

If you are from TX, I cannot recommend any OOS MD schools at which you will have an equal or better chance at an interview. Secondaries are where you give explanations at most schools.

 

[Mr.Happy]

If you are from TX, I cannot recommend any OOS MD schools at which you will have an equal or better chance at an interview. Secondaries are where you give explanations at most schools.

I'm in a unique position where I'm not a resident of any state. So I'm applying to TX as an OOS. I graduated from a high school in Arizona but am not an Arizona resident (though I hope AZ med schools will take my background into consideration).

 

[gyngyn]

I'm in a unique position where I'm not a resident of any state. So I'm applying to TX as an OOS. I graduated from a high school in Arizona but am not an Arizona resident (though I hope AZ med schools will take my background into consideration).

Bummer. I can not recommend that you apply to TX, then. They are required by law to take at least 90% from IS (except Baylor). The successful OOS candidates tend to be at the top of their stats and experience range.

 

[Mr.Happy]

Bummer. I can not recommend that you apply to TX, then. They are required by law to take at least 90% from IS (except Baylor). The successful OOS candidates tend to be at the top of their stats and experience range.

I understand and respect your opinion. I have a unique life story and very strong, unusual ec activities so I'm hoping for the best.

 

[gyngyn]

I understand and respect your opinion. I have a unique life story and very strong, unusual ec activities so I'm hoping for the best.

Let us know how it goes. I'm always happy to be wrong in these cases!

 

[Mr.Happy]

I'm very leery of Carib MD programs but do you think I would have a good shot at the "Big 4" and Australian/Eastern European medical school programs? Should I apply to those as back up or do you think I have a good enough shot with the DO schools and there's no need to look abroad? I applied to 12 DO schools.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm very leery of Carib MD programs but do you think I would have a good shot at the "Big 4" and Australian/Eastern European medical school programs? Should I apply to those as back up or do you think I have a good enough shot with the DO schools and there's no need to look abroad? I applied to 12 DO schools.

You will get into a good DO with the right strategy.

 

[Mr.Happy]

I'm looking at Caribbean/International schools as a back up. Maybe Skip can help me out here. I would probably be a "3" according to Skip's medical applicant category. I do have strong ECs (I founded and led my own community based organization promoting HIV prevention in Africa, very strong LORs, numerous leadership roles, consistent demonstrated interest in promoting HIV prevention throughout and after undergrad, 2000+ hours of clinical research at the Johns Hopkins Hospital).

what are my chances with the international schools? Of course I prefer US MD over US DO over IMG status (simply due to fears of not matching into my preferred residency, not making any judgement calls on any program) but I have to face the reality that I have a low MCAT score and a low grad school GPA. I also don't have a DO letter and it's too late to get one now for many reasons. However there are DO schools who don't require a DO letter.

Will I have a shot at the Big4?

Or alternatively, do you think I can maybe slip into a US MD program due to my unusual ECs and strong LORs?

I applied to the following schools for the 2014-2015 cycle:

US MD:

Virginia Commonwealth University
University of West Virginia
Drexel
Rosalind Franklin
Quinnipiac
Howard
Meharry
UMiami
U of A Tucson and Phoenix
Western Michigan
Central Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Creighton
NYU
Rochester
Harvard
Yale
Cornell
Mayo
JHU
Jefferson

US DO:

Midwestern-Chicago and AZ
AT Still AZ
Touro Nevada, NY, and CA
Marian
Nova Southeastern
Rocky Vista
Campbell
TCOM

All the texas schools

International schools (working on apps now):

Windsor (definitely a reach based on my stats, so I've been told)
St James
St. Martinus
St. Aureus
AUC
Saba
University of Queensland Ochsner

 

[Mr.Happy]

forgot to add Michigan State University under the DO schools. Definitely would be honored to receive a DO acceptance.

On a side note, I'm working on secondaries now and have a question, how long should I take while working on them? Can I give myself 2-3 weeks to submit?

 

[gyngyn]

The fact that you have Harvard and Howard on the same list practically defines the shotgun approach!

Who's Skip?

 

[Mr.Happy]

The fact that you have Harvard and Howard on the same list practically defines the shotgun approach!

Who's Skip?

I'm not a resident of Texas, applying to Texas schools as an OOS applicant. Skip is a senior SDN member who stated in many different forums that he is an anesthesiologist who graduated from Ross University in Dominica.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm not a resident of Texas, applying to Texas schools as an OOS applicant. Skip is a senior SDN member who stated in many different forums that he is an anesthesiologist who graduated from Ross University in Dominica.

I'm sure you can get into all the Caribbean schools.
A pulse and a checkbook...

 

[Mr.Happy]

I'm sure you can get into all the Caribbean schools.
A pulse and a checkbook...

Thank you gyngyn. and how about my list of DO and MD schools? any chance there with those specific schools? I know schools like Harvard interview a ridiculous amount of people like 800 so maybe I have a chance due to my ECs?

 

[gyngyn]

Thank you gyngyn. and how about my list of DO and MD schools? any chance there with those specific schools? I know schools like Harvard interview a ridiculous amount of people like 800 so maybe I have a chance due to my ECs?

There are at least 8 schools on your MD list that could be eliminated without reducing your chances for admission (unless you are from West VA, then there are 7).

 

[Mr.Happy]

There are at least 8 schools on your MD list that could be eliminated without reducing your chances for admission (unless you are from West VA, then there are 7).

I assume you are referring to the high ranked ones. I know I have a low chance of acceptance but then again, I'm not your average applicant. I knew someone who was accepted to Johns Hopkins with a 24 on his MCAT because like me, he was not an average applicant.

 

[zzxxzz]

I applied to the following schools for the 2014-2015 cycle:

US MD:

Harvard
Yale
Cornell
Mayo
JHU

I assume you are referring to the high ranked ones. I know I have a low chance of acceptance but then again, I'm not your average applicant. I knew someone who was accepted to Johns Hopkins with a 24 on his MCAT because like me, he was not an average applicant.

The 0.3% of applicants with 36+ and 3.8+ aren't average, either. But enough of them apply every year to fill up these super-elite schools several times over. I have a friend at Harvard and one at Mayo. Trust me, their ECs were far above average as well.

Quite curious to hear what your ECs are, but I understand being discrete. Good luck this cycle.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@Mr.Happy... I strongly suggest that you add more DO schools such as: LMU, VCOM, WVSOM, PCOM-GA. You should erase St Martinus, St Aureus and St James from your list. These are some of the worst carib schools.

 

[Mr.Happy]

@Mr.Happy... I strongly suggest that you add more DO schools such as: LMU, VCOM, WVSOM, PCOM-GA. You should erase St Martinus, St Aureus and St James from your list. These are some of the worst carib schools.

Thank you for your comment. After discussing my school list with several different people, I've decided to not apply to any of the 3 carib schools you mentioned. All the DO options you mentioned require a DO letter. The 12 DO schools I chose are very clear that they will accept an MD letter over a DO one and some even state that they prefer that I send in a letter from an MD who knows me well rather than a DO who doesn't know me at all.

 

[Goro]

OP, the list below is fine. You should also consider Western (both schools), PacNW, DMU, KCUMB, PCOM, PCOM-GA, and both VCOMs.

Midwestern-Chicago and AZ
AT Still AZ
Touro Nevada, NY, and CA
Marian
Nova Southeastern
Rocky Vista
Campbell
TCOM

 

[Mr.Happy]

OP, the list below is fine. You should also consider Western (both schools), PacNW, DMU, KCUMB, PCOM, PCOM-GA, and both VCOMs.

Midwestern-Chicago and AZ
AT Still AZ
Touro Nevada, NY, and CA
Marian
Nova Southeastern
Rocky Vista
Campbell
TCOM

Thank you Goro. I know you're a member of a an osteopathic medical school admissions committee, do you think I'm competitive? My AACOMAS has already been verified so I'm an early applicant. Although I have not shadowed a DO and do not have a DO LOR, I do have experience with DOs. My family relative is a osteopathic physician and I first learned about osteopathy through him. I also met and observed fourth year osteopathic medical students while volunteering at my local hospital. I even observed them following OMM protocol. Finally, I went down to an osteopathic medical school myself to confirm that I'm 100% passionate about osteopathic medicine. This is all apart from the online research and books I've read about osteopathic medicine. I mentioned all this in my PS. As mentioned before, I did specifically apply to osteopathic medical schools that do accept MD LORs instead of DO. DO is definitely not a back-up option for me, I consider DO to be MD+ so as good as if not better than MD.

 

[Goro]

yes, and I think you'll get lots of IIs. the low gGPA may hurt, so you're going to need to explain that well.

do you think I'm competitive? My AACOMAS has already been verified so I'm an early applicant. Although I have not shadowed a DO and do not have a DO LOR,



Very good!
I do have experience with DOs. My family relative is a osteopathic physician and I first learned about osteopathy through him.

Even better!
I also met and observed fourth year osteopathic medical students while volunteering at my local hospital. I even observed them following OMM protocol.

Even better still!!
You should hit up some of the DOs there for a LOR.
Finally, I went down to an osteopathic medical school myself to confirm that I'm 100% passionate about osteopathic medicine. This is all apart from the online research and books I've read about osteopathic medicine. I mentioned all this in my PS. As mentioned before, I did specifically apply to osteopathic medical schools that do accept MD LORs instead of DO. DO is definitely not a back-up option for me, I consider DO to be MD+ so as good as if not better than MD.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mr.Happy]

yes, and I think you'll get lots of IIs. the low gGPA may hurt, so you're going to need to explain that well.

do you think I'm competitive? My AACOMAS has already been verified so I'm an early applicant. Although I have not shadowed a DO and do not have a DO LOR,



Very good!
I do have experience with DOs. My family relative is a osteopathic physician and I first learned about osteopathy through him.

Even better!
I also met and observed fourth year osteopathic medical students while volunteering at my local hospital. I even observed them following OMM protocol.

Even better still!!
You should hit up some of the DOs there for a LOR.
Finally, I went down to an osteopathic medical school myself to confirm that I'm 100% passionate about osteopathic medicine. This is all apart from the online research and books I've read about osteopathic medicine. I mentioned all this in my PS. As mentioned before, I did specifically apply to osteopathic medical schools that do accept MD LORs instead of DO. DO is definitely not a back-up option for me, I consider DO to be MD+ so as good as if not better than MD.[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for replying to our threads here Goro. You really help us deal with our stress and anxiety in this application cycle. Now I know I have a good chance of receiving an interview invite!! Yess!!!!

 

[medp63]

I would add Alabama College of Osteopathic Medicine to my list if I were you.

 

[Mr.Happy]

I have a question. Am I not receiving interview invites yet because I mentioned in my primary applications (AACOMAS, AMCAS, TMDSAS) that I'm retaking the MCAT on August 27? Some of the schools have directly and indirectly told me that they won't review my application until the end of September when my new MCAT scores come out. However I was hoping that some schools will review me now based on my current score and either offer me a II or put me on hold until my new MCAT score comes out.

What worries me is that all the universities I send secondaries too (I've sent 15 MD and 4 DO secondaries so far) will put my application on hold till end of September, by which time I will be a late applicant.

As long as I receive a 30+ MCAT score at the end of September, do you think it's still possible for me to receive interview invites and be accepted to medical school this cycle?

Am I just worrying too much because it's still early in the cycle?

Sometimes I wish I hadn't even signed up for an MCAT re-take. I was reading the University of West Virginia thread and and OOS applicant with a lower MCAT score than mine received an interview invite. University of West Virginia put my app on hold because of my MCAT re-take.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Harvard
JHU
Windsor (definitely a reach based on my stats, so I've been told)
St James

I can't believe these 4 schools are in the same list for a person. OP, why don't you just give me your money? I'll write you a better letter of rejection than the top schools and my scribbles with crayons on toilet paper will be worth more than your Caribbean degree.

 

[Mr.Happy]

I can't believe these 4 schools are in the same list for a person. OP, why don't you just give me your money? I'll write you a better letter of rejection than the top schools and my scribbles with crayons on toilet paper will be worth more than your Caribbean degree.

Thank you for answering my question. In the end, I decided not to apply to any Caribbean schools. Also I know someone personally who was accepted to JHU recently with a MCAT score of 24. However I thank you for your frank honest comments, I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[Mr.Happy]

Yes I know now that even considering the Caribbean option, especially the schools I looked at, was a silly idea. I also know that schools like Harvard, JHU are extreme reaches for me. I thank my fellow SDN members for grounding me in reality. I just feel that not many applicants have started and led their own NGO in Africa promoting public health. I thought the top schools may take notice of that but maybe I'm wrong. @gyngyn could you give your views on that?

Also if anyone could answer the question I posted yesterday about the hold in my application due to my MCAT retake and what I should strategically do now to increase my chances of an acceptance this cycle? Should I just cancel my re-take and ask schools to review my app for an II now? Or should I study hard for a much better MCAT score? I know I can do significantly better than 27.

 

[Mr.Happy]

I am just worried about the rolling admissions policy of most medical schools. Am I passing a death sentence on my app by taking this MCAT re-take and having them review my app in the end of September?

 

[gyngyn]

Yes I know now that even considering the Caribbean option, especially the schools I looked at, was a silly idea. I also know that schools like Harvard, JHU are extreme reaches for me. I thank my fellow SDN members for grounding me in reality. I just feel that not many applicants have started and led their own NGO in Africa promoting public health. I thought the top schools may take notice of that but maybe I'm wrong. @gyngyn could you give your views on that?

This process from an administrative standpoint is comprised of distinct phases. The screening phase is where you are likely to be removed from several of the schools on your list. At about 7 schools, you have a fair to good chance of making it past screening where your other accomplishments will then contribute to your application. At these schools a late application (waiting on another MCAT) is more likely to hurt you. As you can see, there are multiple factors that are impairing your outcome. An early application with your best MCAT score alleviates your current problems but that is now impossible for this cycle. You still might get somewhere if you continue with your current stats, though. It happens every year.

 

[DrPibble]

I am just worried about the rolling admissions policy of most medical schools. Am I passing a death sentence on my app by taking this MCAT re-take and having them review my app in the end of September?

I'm struggling with the same internal dilemma, Mr. Happy. It's a tough call...