Your pet's bad for the environment.

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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Oh man, that fish heads thing is making me flash back to biochemistry...

"Mrs Smith has rushed her cat Fluffy to your clinic. Over night, Fluffy had 'some kind of seizure or something' and during your exam, you note that Fluffy is ataxic and seems to have difficulty seeing. Mrs. Smith, says that a few months ago, her husband took up fishing as a hobby. They have been feeding their cat Fluffy raw fish for dinner every night since. It is likely that Fluffy's symptoms are due to: _________"

(Only more coherent and teacher-y.)

Also, I wish there was a better way to keep litterboxes. If you buy flushable litter (which tracks like CRAZY), you're killing sea otters. If you buy clay litter, you're destroying the environment because it's strip-mined. Ugh.
 
I saw this one and was ":rolleyes:". Wonder what PETA's going to say about this.

I do think the fish head thing is stupid, as well.
 
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i can't believe this article. im in shock. i think we have bigger problems to worry about than our pets. do they realize how much one human can hurt the environment? maybe we should start working on what we can do personally to accept the responsibility of our own carbon footprint, which adds up to a lot more than just what car we drive.
What do they think the answer is? kill pets?? this is ridiculous, lets just kill all the animals to help stop what we started. sighh

also, from what i last heard the Copenhagen conference wasn't going anywhere. I didnt hear how it ended friday, any one know the details so i can be lazy and not look it up? lol
 
I think the fish heads provided for the cats to eat not think about stupid...nowadays many of them wre providing meat and al.But it may cause same infections by those fleshes will be hazardous to them.
 
Following this logic a little further, perhaps they'll start suggesting cannibalism as a solution to our environmental problems.

"Just think of how much you could reduce emissions by walking over to the neighbor's house and eating them. No shipping, no driving, and you stop one carbon footprint in its tracks! And no more of this ridiculous speciesism that allows us to eat helpless fish and chickens!"

:rolleyes: Better not let anyone from PETA hear me say that...


On a more respectful note, I do think it is good to be raising awareness of the effect our daily actions have on the environment. However I think it would be much more useful to send the message "Buy Locally" rather than "Pets are Bad". That goes for any product, not just the small percentage of our consumer goods that go to the pets.
 
I actually do think about my pet's part in the bigger picture... I have non-native species romping the terrain. I feed them commercial food which is part of the big agro business that I take issue with on so many levels... I can't get certified humanely raised, locally made cat food that I trust. When I open a can of food, I do think about the animals that went into it--their living conditions, health, the impact on my own pet's health...

Sounds like I am an oddball... :rolleyes:

Oh, and it kills me all the food that is wasted and the pet food cans that do not get recycled where I work.

I have yet to read the article, but I will when I am in the mood!
 
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Willowhand said:
Following this logic a little further, perhaps they'll start suggesting cannibalism as a solution to our environmental problems.

"Just think of how much you could reduce emissions by walking over to the neighbor's house and eating them. No shipping, no driving, and you stop one carbon footprint in its tracks! And no more of this ridiculous speciesism that allows us to eat helpless fish and chickens!"

:rolleyes: Better not let anyone from PETA hear me say that...
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:lol:

BTW, the first thing that came to mind upon seeing the thread title was my cat's, um, greenhouse gas emissions on bad GI days.\

Pandacinny, how is it that human sewage that is flushed is considered OK to release back into the environment but kitty poo is infectious? Is Toxoplasma just that persistent?

Cwazy cat lady, since I am a LA person, I think sometimes about the environmental impact of having grazing beasts (often at a high density), which erode soil, especially along creeks which often run through pastures, deposit nitrogen, and affect native organisms. I am happy that "my" horses live in a pasture that is allowed to retain much of its natural biodiversity and is kept at a very low density of horses (~2 dozen horses/70 acres). OTOH, horses in many places are kept at high densities in over-grazed fields, which have been manipulated into being monocultures of very short grasses that provide habitats for very few native species, and which import large amounts of grain and hay which gets turned into nitrogenous wastes. I find some comfort in the fact that horse farms and riders are forces that help preserve open spaces, but it bothers me to see farms which are ecologically unsustainable.
 
I do think that it can't be ignored the impact that our pets have on the environment, and I think we can all do our part (for example, keeping your cats indoors), but to go on a rant against pet ownership is ridiculous. The environmental blight that would ensue were we all to let out pets go so we could be more ecofriendly would be astronomical. Or, we could euthanize them and be left with millions of dead bodies to dispose of, and if we want to stay in an environmentally friendly mindset, we can't simply let the bodies rot in a pile, if wildlife eat the animals that died by drug injection, that's bad news for them. Burning them all is illogical for obvious reasons. So what do you do? I hate when people argue a point without suggesting a solution. The fact of the matter is, our pets are here to stay. Domestic animals are here to stay. They do cause problems and we do need to think about those problems and address them in a way that will benefit the environment while still being humane to the animals.
 
BlacKAT33 said:
i can't believe this article. im in shock. i think we have bigger problems to worry about than our pets. do they realize how much one human can hurt the environment? maybe we should start working on what we can do personally to accept the responsibility of our own carbon footprint, which adds up to a lot more than just what car we drive.
What do they think the answer is? kill pets?? this is ridiculous, lets just kill all the animals to help stop what we started. sighh

also, from what i last heard the Copenhagen conference wasn't going anywhere. I didnt hear how it ended friday, any one know the details so i can be lazy and not look it up? lol
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Considering the pavement, parking lots, salt used in winter to allow us to drive are hurting the environment much more than our pets. If we want to complain about pets killing the environment, we should discuss the feral population of cats, and people who let cats roam outside. They damage bird populations, and spread diseases (FIV/FELV/Rabies to a lesser extent/parasites/etc).

On another note, I am glad most of you are against PETA. :) I hate activist who are hypocritical and spread false information and half truths.
 
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It's still food for thought and there are things you can do to reduce your pet's "carbon pawprint". It starts by adopting instead of purchasing from a breeder - obtaining a pet who has already been born instead of one who was bred to be bought by you. Use biodegradable, repurposed bags for poop. Avoid flushing litter. Use non-clay cat litter and compost it after removing the poop. See if you can find food manufactured near where you live. Obtain secondhand supplies such as beds and carriers. The list goes on. There are lots of things you *can* do.
 
Speaking of ecofriendly litterboxes, I met someone with this litter box where the litter is non-clumping and you don't need to replace it very often. All of the cat pee ends up in this container which you slide out from under the box and pour into your toilet and flush. You just scoop out the cat poop and throw it out.
I thought this was a really cool concept, but I cannot remember what it was called! I also don't remember what the actual litter itself was made of. Has anyone else seen/heard of these?
 
nymeria1 said:
Speaking of ecofriendly litterboxes, I met someone with this litter box where the litter is non-clumping and you don't need to replace it very often. All of the cat pee ends up in this container which you slide out from under the box and pour into your toilet and flush. You just scoop out the cat poop and throw it out.
I thought this was a really cool concept, but I cannot remember what it was called! I also don't remember what the actual litter itself was made of. Has anyone else seen/heard of these?
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I dunno what it's called, but I'm pretty sure I saw it on the skymall!
 
There is a fully robotic one like that on Skymall, but you could accomplish something similar by drilling holes in the bottom of a regular litter box and using lab litter. If the box was elevated you could probably rig up a siphon into your toilet for the pee.

Yesterday's News is made of recycled newspaper and cats can still dig in it. I used it for a while for my bunnies and they liked it. There are some small plastic parts sometimes so you can't use it with a litter snacker.
 
Every aspect of "modern man's" life is 'bad' for the environment.

Our jobs, our hobbies, our families, our pets, our entertainment, our magazines, our internet, our cars.....
 
:rofl:

Wow....this article made me LOL.

"Rabbits are good, provided you eat them." wins comment of the day.
 
nymeria1 said:
Speaking of ecofriendly litterboxes, I met someone with this litter box where the litter is non-clumping and you don't need to replace it very often. All of the cat pee ends up in this container which you slide out from under the box and pour into your toilet and flush. You just scoop out the cat poop and throw it out.
I thought this was a really cool concept, but I cannot remember what it was called! I also don't remember what the actual litter itself was made of. Has anyone else seen/heard of these?
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The problem is that flushing is actually not an eco-friendly option. Nitrogenous waste contributes to eutrophication of aquatic ecosystems. Granted, a litterbox is nothing relative to intensive animal agriculture, which is the real offender, but it's still a mistake to think flushing is not harmful. The trash is likely to be the better place for urine. Composting is by far the best option.
 
Wolphcats said:
On another note, I am glad most of you are against PETA. :) I hate activist who are hypocritical and spread false information and half truths.
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You read my mind! lol.

I particularly enjoyed this quote from the article: "Combine the land required to generate its food and a "medium" sized dog has an annual footprint of 0.84 hectares (2.07 acres) -- around twice the 0.41 hectares required by a 4x4 driving 10,000 kilometers (6,200 miles) a year, including energy to build the car."

But since when does the energy required to keep an organism alive compare to the energy needed to build something that contributes to the voluntary laziness called "travel efficiency/luxury" that we as humans "need" to survive?

I am an advocate for helping reduce our detrimental impact the environment but I'm not gonna lie, I don't think pets are the primary contributors!
 
VeganSoprano said:
The problem is that flushing is actually not an eco-friendly option. Nitrogenous waste contributes to eutrophication of aquatic ecosystems. Granted, a litterbox is nothing relative to intensive animal agriculture, which is the real offender, but it's still a mistake to think flushing is not harmful. The trash is likely to be the better place for urine. Composting is by far the best option.
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So, in other words, I should pee outside too?
 
I'm sure human waste is just as bad, but it's SO much easier to sit back and tell pet owners they're wasteful unless they eat their pet rabbits than it is to tell people to...stop pooping?
 
Also, 6200 miles a year is very very low. When I bought my car the warranty guy said the average person/car drives 12k a year, and that the warranty assumes 15k a year.
 
I love the end of this article. Instead of getting a cat or dog, just get a rabbit and then you can eat it in a few years!
 
Other potential positive steps include avoiding walking your dog in wildlife-rich areas and keeping your cat indoors at night when it has a particular thirst for other, smaller animals' blood.
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How does walking my dog in a wildlife-rich area have a greater impact than in an area that is not as wildlife-rich? Is it if my dog poo's in that area. But, then the poo would act as a natural fertilizer and wouldn't end up in a landfill; which actually seems like a better option to me. If my cat killed 5 mice/rats at night would that get rid of their mice/ratprint? This article is bogus; eventually we are going to start worrying about how much of a footprint a head of lettuce puts out. Point being we can not control the world and everything within it and eventually we are going to have to just deal with the fact that cats, dogs, rabbits, iguanas, guinea pigs, and trees all put out carbon emissions and not attempt to "control" exactly how much they put out. And feeding the cat fish heads...great idea (not!). I would like to see them put out an article about an elephant's carbon footprint or even a tiger's....that would be interesting. And then I would like to see them attempt to control the elephant's/tiger's diet to help reduce its carbon footprint.
 
I actually think both the steps you quoted are reasonable ones. Cats do have a very negative effect on songbird populations - they are not a natural predator in most areas and are very harmful especially in the spring.

As far as the dog-walking, I would be less concerned about wildlife-rich (although definitely don't let your dog chase and kill wildlife - totally unnecessary and the dog can contract lovely diseases that way) and more concerned about creeks and streams. There is a wildlife preserve in Pittsburgh that allows dogs and there is actually a significant problem with the e. coli from the dog poop being washed into the creek that runs through the middle. Obviously wild animal poop causes this too, but the ecosystem is not built for the volume of dogs that get walked there. So not picking up dog poop in wildlife areas can cause serious problems - just because you're in the woods and no one can se you doesn't mean it's ok.

This argument has been very polarized and there is a middle ground that I think is being missed. Recognize that you and your pets and your kids affect the environment. Own it. Look at what you can and can't do to mitigate it. Picking up poop, keeping cats indoors, installing the squiggly light bulbs - easy. I do think vets should have a concern for the environment. Not only are there a lot of wild animals out there, but environmental health is a huge aspect of the public health we are all swearing to protect. An unhealthy environment will result in unhealthy people and pets, so as health professionals we should act accordingly.
 
bunnity said:
installing the squiggly light bulbs
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:laugh::laugh: omg that made me laugh so much. its something id say to my friends/bf but i probably would have looked up the real name for this forum so people dont make fun of me. glad to hear others speak like me and also don't care!
 
Flushing really isn't okay no matter what you're flushing. But it is okay to consider what is practical and possible. I'm not in a position to build a composting toilet and I'm not disposing of my own poo in the trash if I can possibly avoid it. But I can avoid flushing animal waste and I can compost instead of using the garbage disposal, so I do those things.
 
Bunnity, that was a very thoughtful post.

Another reason to mention dog-walking in wildlife-rich areas is because the more disruption there is in those areas, the less the native birds and mammals are going to want to stick around, potentially making that area unusable as habitat for some of the shyer species. If your dog trots next to you on a leash, I doubt it's much more of a problem than just a person walking through, but if they are zooming off the path into the underbrush or allowed to run around off-lead they are potentially disrupting nesting and burrowing sites.
 
VeganSoprano said:
Flushing really isn't okay no matter what you're flushing. But it is okay to consider what is practical and possible. I'm not in a position to build a composting toilet and I'm not disposing of my own poo in the trash if I can possibly avoid it. But I can avoid flushing animal waste and I can compost instead of using the garbage disposal, so I do those things.
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I am pretty heavy into the environment, but I don't get this. What makes flushing animal feces worse than flushing animal (human) feces?

I would think that disposing of all feces into an appropriate septic system or an appropriate sewer system (ie one that is filtered through appropriate water treatment programs) would be better than sending it (in plastic bags) to landfills where it won't biodegrade or if it does oepn will leach without any conditioning/decontamination?

For all those with cats, there is actually a flushable litter box that can be attached to a water supply and toilet. I tried it with my cat, but she hated the crystal granules.
 
bunnity said:
I actually think both the steps you quoted are reasonable ones. Cats do have a very negative effect on songbird populations - they are not a natural predator in most areas and are very harmful especially in the spring.

As far as the dog-walking, I would be less concerned about wildlife-rich (although definitely don't let your dog chase and kill wildlife - totally unnecessary and the dog can contract lovely diseases that way) and more concerned about creeks and streams. There is a wildlife preserve in Pittsburgh that allows dogs and there is actually a significant problem with the e. coli from the dog poop being washed into the creek that runs through the middle. Obviously wild animal poop causes this too, but the ecosystem is not built for the volume of dogs that get walked there. So not picking up dog poop in wildlife areas can cause serious problems - just because you're in the woods and no one can se you doesn't mean it's ok.

This argument has been very polarized and there is a middle ground that I think is being missed. Recognize that you and your pets and your kids affect the environment. Own it. Look at what you can and can't do to mitigate it. Picking up poop, keeping cats indoors, installing the squiggly light bulbs - easy. I do think vets should have a concern for the environment. Not only are there a lot of wild animals out there, but environmental health is a huge aspect of the public health we are all swearing to protect. An unhealthy environment will result in unhealthy people and pets, so as health professionals we should act accordingly.
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Good points. I would never leave my dog's poo anywhere. I always pick it up and I would not let my dog go running off-leash in a wildlife area;
especially in the Flagstaff area where I live because there have been rabies outbreaks in the area. (Did anyone hear about the bobcat that walked into the bar?) I also do not let my cats outdoors because I do not believe in letting a defenseless cat outside. It decreases their lifespan and there are way too many coyotes and cars around the Phoenix area where my cat lives. However, I still think that some people are taking the whole lets save the environment thing to an extreme. I install the squiggly light bulbs, pick up my animal’s feces, and turn off all lights and electronics when I am not using them; sometimes I even unplug them. I conserve water and recycle and I drive a car that gets 37 mpg on the highway. So I like to think I am reducing my emissions as much as possible, but there is only so much I can do. Until the government realizes that we can power the entire world on reusable energy (wind, sun and water) then I am stuck having to use energy that is bad for the environment.
 
Flushing animal poop isn't generally worse than flushing human poop. The only exception would be in the case of infectious disease, such as a cat who is actively shedding toxoplasmosis. But flushing any poop is fundamentally bad because of its effect on marine ecosystems (where I live, the Chesapeake Bay is greatly threatened by this). So the smallest possible amount of nitrogenous waste should be allowed into the wastewater stream. For most people, flushing their own poo is pretty much unavoidable, but it is possible to dispose of your pet's poop in the trash. This isn't an environmentally neutral option. But waterway contamination is a more serious problem than landfill space so it should take higher priority.

However, a septic tank might skew things in the other direction since it is self-contained. That is a very good point.

Any way you look at it, though, compost is king!
 
VeganSoprano said:
Flushing animal poop isn't generally worse than flushing human poop. The only exception would be in the case of infectious disease, such as a cat who is actively shedding toxoplasmosis. But flushing any poop is fundamentally bad because of its effect on marine ecosystems (where I live, the Chesapeake Bay is greatly threatened by this). So the smallest possible amount of nitrogenous waste should be allowed into the wastewater stream. For most people, flushing their own poo is pretty much unavoidable, but it is possible to dispose of your pet's poop in the trash. This isn't an environmentally neutral option. But waterway contamination is a more serious problem than landfill space so it should take higher priority.

However, a septic tank might skew things in the other direction since it is self-contained. That is a very good point.

Any way you look at it, though, compost is king!
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When I lived next to the shore in NJ, it was considered far worse to leave fecal matter out in your yard, because the storm drains washed straight into the ocean. So this may be one of the 'know the issues in your area' types of problem. In some places the landfills are the major contributors to waterway contamination as well as atmospheric contamination.
 
DVMDream said:
Good points. I would never leave my dog's poo anywhere. I always pick it up and I would not let my dog go running off-leash in a wildlife area;
especially in the Flagstaff area where I live because there have been rabies outbreaks in the area. (Did anyone hear about the bobcat that walked into the bar?) I also do not let my cats outdoors because I do not believe in letting a defenseless cat outside. It decreases their lifespan and there are way too many coyotes and cars around the Phoenix area where my cat lives. However, I still think that some people are taking the whole lets save the environment thing to an extreme. I install the squiggly light bulbs, pick up my animal’s feces, and turn off all lights and electronics when I am not using them; sometimes I even unplug them. I conserve water and recycle and I drive a car that gets 37 mpg on the highway. So I like to think I am reducing my emissions as much as possible, but there is only so much I can do. Until the government realizes that we can power the entire world on reusable energy (wind, sun and water) then I am stuck having to use energy that is bad for the environment.
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The one other thing I have started doing that I didn't do 5 years ago is grow as much of my own food as possible. I said that on a bus full of vet students after we visited a poultry plant, and was poked fun at ('who has time to hoe gardens after school') but sadly that means people aren't even willing to hear that there are easy ways to grow some of the food we eat. I spend less than 5 minutes on my garden a day. It sits in containers in my kitchen. It doesn't grow a ton of stuff, but it gives me greens for salads year round, and tomatos, and some peppers. Generally enough to give me non starch veggies for soup or salad two meals a day. I also grow my own herbs (out of sheer selfishness, they taste so much better.) When I can't grow, I get food from a local organic coop or the farmers market. It means I am restricted a bit more to seasonal produce, but it was the next major step in doing something positive. The initial set up took a weekend (not constant work) and the same system has worked since 2005 when I lived in NYC...and it moves with us to Charlotte and now Raleigh. No weeds, just plant, water, watch, harvest. I do compost too, but that is because I can't stand seeing good soil go out with the garbage.... I think my next 'big thing' will be worm vermaculture. I always hear it takes so much time, but once the stuff is set up, I really feel like it takes me so much less time!
 
Good stuff, Sumstorm. My family and I try to do this as well (though perhaps on a larger scale since we grow everything but some of our herbs outdoors). For the non-seasonal foods that we really like, we sometimes go pick a pile of them and freeze them to have all winter long. I think this year my mom and I ended up harvesting about 50 lbs of blueberries at a local farm. Delicious snacks even when the snow's around!

I don't tend to do much except herbs when I'm away at school or a job and living in in apartment. Do you have any suggestions for getting an indoor garden underway?
 
I would love to hear that too sumstorm. My attempt this summer failed miserably. Do you need to use certain breeds of plants that will grow better inside? In this particular apartment (and also this is the northeast) I also have light issues - how do you combat that? I would love to hear any of your wisdom - soil, breeds of plants (I would love to have lettuce/kale for the bunny and tomatoes and carrots for me), where to put them, do they need fertilizer, etc.
 
I use the Mel's mix suggested in square foot gardening (I use my own compost). I order seeds from 'cook's kitchen' just because I like their options. I either use windows/sliding glass doors or I supplement light (light fixtures are pretty cheap and I use a timer.) Of course light fixtures aren't as green as natural light, but still less than paying for something from across the country. The biggest challenge to container gardening is dealing with soil dryness. I use plastic pots, larger than necessary, because porous pots will dry out faster. I also have some pots set up as 'self watering' based on a book I found at the library. Do have to keep pets out of them. I also do some extra stuff, like I add supplement based on what I am growing. Root veggies are harder (need deeper, looser soil.) Vining veggies need support, which is challenging. I grow a lot of lettuce/greens types, peppers, tomatos, and herbs. I have had some success with fillet beans, pea pods, summer squash, carrots, and radishes. I have tried and failed at watermelon, winter squashes, potatos, and corn.

I am not sure what else I can share. I do think sometimes people try too much too soon. I am a big fan of trying one 'mixed package' of leafy lettuces, because they seem to do well.

Also, I have a lot of friends who start on those commercial ($$$) grow systems you can buy at bed, bath, and beyond, and that has given them the confidence later to set up their own plant 'pods' and then move to their own systems. It is an expensive initial cost, but it does simplify figuring out soil and light.

Don't know if that helps anyone. Oh, you do need to fertilize more often in containers, because the limited watering distribution can wash away fertilizer. But all I do is replace compost to the same level each time I harvest/add veggies to the plot and it seems to work out. My compost is a leaf base with kitchen discards with added proteins (rabbit food works well.)
 
Eh...maybe not...

Somebody on VIN posted this story as well and it was quickly followed by this link: http://daily.sightline.org/daily_score/archive/2009/11/02/dogs-vs-cars

With regards to the kids thing...I rather like my CO2 producing little guy. He may one day make me subject to a carbon tax (along with any others God sends our way)...but this mom thing is amazing. Having a baby tops anything I've ever done in life, hands down.
 
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