your opinion on the comparison of Ross to U.S schools

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phisigman03

phisigman03

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Just curious to see what are some opinions out there on the comparison of Ross University Medical College to U.S Medical Schools.
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No comparison as such.
 
i guess the best comparrison would be to find those few students who failed or were kicked out of a US school and transfered to ross.

I've heard about them, dont know any personally.
 
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I'm interested in an honest answer here also. I have been accepted at Ross, University of Illinois, and possible Rosalind Franklin University (still waiting). I always told myself that Ross was just a back up, but after going on my interviews and really doing some research, I am less impressed with the other schools. I was always under the impression that the Carrabean schools were just trying to match american programs, but after interviewing at UIC I actually liked the facilities, curriculum, and resources of Ross a lot. I interviewed at Rockford, so I didn't get the whole picture...but. I would just like to know if there is anyone else out there that are considering a foriegn school such as Ross over limited acceptances in the US, or are you supposed to join a program that you think is inferior or even unaccomidating just because it is the US. Im having a hard time choosing just based on a name. Also, Im from California, and say what you will of Dominica - It is still better than Chicago. Any one elses p.o.v.? Stay Friendly!
 
Wow! Sorry about the spelling errors.
 
ummmm
no offense, but you would be the BIGGEST idiot in the world to go to ross over ANY american school, MD or DO. Especially MD.

a US program will make you're medical school education that much better. None of the hardships of living on the island and you'll get a first class education. And if you have any intention of going back to Cali for residency or working, you'll have a MUCH easier time coming out of ANY american school.

Honestly, this thread is over. Unless you want people lambasting you for even considering this choice.
 
I hate to be mean but Bevo is spot on!
 
i'm sorry, i call BS. This one is filed under the category of so incredibly stupid it has to be a troll.

z
 
I know this is unconventional, but the only place that I have been accepted is UIC, and at this point I would have to be positioned at the Rockford. I saw the facilities, and did some talking to the local students and, US school be darned, I wasn't impressed. Now if you fellas might be so kind, asside from just calling me a ******* or roasting me, tell me why it is soooo much better to go to a US school, even if the facilities aren't impressive, the staff wasn't hospitable, and the fact that for an out of state student the cost is nearly twice that of most other schools (54,000 last time I checked) PLEASE. I'm using this post to help make up my mind. I will really get more out of an answer with some depth to it.
 
rockjock said:
I know this is unconventional, but the only place that I have been accepted is UIC, and at this point I would have to be positioned at the Rockford. I saw the facilities, and did some talking to the local students and, US school be darned, I wasn't impressed. Now if you fellas might be so kind, asside from just calling me a ******* or roasting me, tell me why it is soooo much better to go to a US school, even if the facilities aren't impressive, the staff wasn't hospitable, and the fact that for an out of state student the cost is nearly twice that of most other schools (54,000 last time I checked) PLEASE. I'm using this post to help make up my mind. I will really get more out of an answer with some depth to it.
Click to expand...

1) You will be denied many great residency spots just because you are not US

2) You will have to take extra licensing exams

3) You will have to move around and deal with administrative headaches to get all ACGME approved clinicals (for 50-state licensing)

4) You will need to jump through hoops for California licensing

5) You will need to outscore American grads for the same spot

6) You will be surrounded by failure and attrition which wears you down mentally

7) It costs more (overall) no matter how you slice it
 
uhhh

1. education is better
2. clinical education is MUCH better
3. Would get advising and counseling - get neither at Ross
4. Licensing issues are less of a hassle. At Ross you would have a good chance of getting a DO rotation or running into other licensing issues. Or having to do A LOT more paperwork to get licensed. You have none of that with an american school.
5. You would have more oppportunities coming out of an american school.
6. School DOES matter come residency time. You would be more competitive for residency. Its all about the totem pole in medicine
American medical students are at the top, follow by osteopathic, followed by american foreign med graduates.
7. Support services are probably better there.
8. Dont have to fight or wait to get the better rotations available at Ross. Not all ross clinical sites are equal.

If you need more, then you've already made up your mind and you're a hopeless case.

Facilities mean jack crap, its not like they made a huge difference at all while i was at Ross. a classroom is a classroom and a teacher is a teacher.

you think Ross is all hospitable? have you been down to the island? do you know what its gonna be like to live there? Ever hear the rumors about going through Miami or dealing with the Ross main office in NJ? (if and when they answer the phone) its not that good. Its gonna be the same as any other institution. If anything Ross is understaffed to deal witht eh amount of students.

Oh yeah ...
9. Attrition rate really is that high for Ross. maybe 25% of the class fails each semester. Classes are very large. LIke 300-400 size large.
10. So what if you'll be spending maybe $40k more on the education. Its an investment for life. I would rather spend the 40k for a better education and easier living.
11. A lot of hidden costs at Ross. Its not dirt cheap . Maybe doesnt make up for that 40k, but you'll be spending more money to take the Step exams, you'll be moving more. WHen you get hospital sites, you won't be at the same place. Many times you'll be all over NYC (bronx, brooklyn, queens). Its a lot of subway time.
12. Get more respect as a AMG.
13. Loans are better as a AMG. At Ross you won't qualify for as many loans. The amount is like 1/2 what you could get at UIC. The rest you'll have to get from private loans which have a much higher interest rate.



this is my last response. There are a 1000 reasons we could come up with as to why an american school is better than a ross or any other carib school.

Forget about the cash. Think with your head.
 
These are one of those questions that you never expect to have to explain.

It is akin to explaining why it better to receive $1 now instead of one cent per day for 100 days. It should be obvious.
 
Thank you for your input. Bevo, did you go to Ross? or do you just have a lot of info on it. I was under the impression that your boards make up most of the decision of what residencies you get. My only worry about a FMG is whether or not I will be able to work in the US. The moving, life on the island, ect doesn't bother me. Neither does the attrition rate. I may be wrong, but it seems only logical that so many student would drop out of schools that let in so many....lesser qualified applicants. Also, are there errors in the administration, or is it just a lack of student councilors. I came from a competative school and did well with vigorus courseload without any degree of coddleing. Is this what is refered to in your posts? Finnaly, is it your opinion that the MD, DO, FMG pecking order exists, or do they actually admit MDs into residencies, than DOs, than try for FMGs. I am asking honestly, as I thought it was mostly your test scores that determined your eligebility to a residency. I appreciate your response, but I have to ask why the four gentlemen who posted earlier are on this thread. If you are so con carrib schools, why are you posting so much on a resource for students who are trying to find their head. Addmittedly, I am farther behind you guys, but that is why I am researching before making a decision. Aside from the question posed to Bevo, I would be interested in other POV.
Thanks
 
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rockjock said:
Thank you for your input. Bevo, did you go to Ross? or do you just have a lot of info on it. I was under the impression that your boards make up most of the decision of what residencies you get. My only worry about a FMG is whether or not I will be able to work in the US. The moving, life on the island, ect doesn't bother me. Neither does the attrition rate. I may be wrong, but it seems only logical that so many student would drop out of schools that let in so many....lesser qualified applicants. Also, are there errors in the administration, or is it just a lack of student councilors. I came from a competative school and did well with vigorus courseload without any degree of coddleing. Is this what is refered to in your posts? Finnaly, is it your opinion that the MD, DO, FMG pecking order exists, or do they actually admit MDs into residencies, than DOs, than try for FMGs. I am asking honestly, as I thought it was mostly your test scores that determined your eligebility to a residency. I appreciate your response, but I have to ask why the four gentlemen who posted earlier are on this thread. If you are so con carrib schools, why are you posting so much on a resource for students who are trying to find their head. Addmittedly, I am farther behind you guys, but that is why I am researching before making a decision. Aside from the question posed to Bevo, I would be interested in other POV.
Thanks
Click to expand...

The above posters are mostly correct, except that there are no extra licensing exams for IMGs. Also, the choice between DO and foreign MD is not so clear. ..this issue has been debated on these forums many times.

What is certain is that it is a BIG mistake to go to a foreign med school if you can get into a US one. It is NOT true that board scores are the main determinant of what residency you get. US grads get preference above all others. From there, things like board scores and letters of rec will matter. The most prestigious residency programs wouldn't be caught dead with a foreign grad in them...the academic community sees this as a sign of low stature. You will get a decent education at any US med school. There is no reason to go foreign, you will be doing yourself a great disservice, trust us all on this one.
 
I just totally pro-Carribean (I am actually planning to attend on this fall) but I have to agree with the others. Even though I think that anyone who is determined and hard working enough can get into competitive residencies with a degree from a carib medical school, I still think it would be a bad idea to chose one over a US school. There are so many factors to consider including being away from the life you know and the people you love, not enough support for students who are not doing well, living conditions etc. You really do not need that when you are trying to do well in school.

Ross in particular. I think that they accept way too many students, knowing that many will leave along the way. I really wish they would accept less and offer more support to those they accept. AUC and SGU would be better options. SGU even has free tutors for students not doing well.

I say go to IL but if you really feel that it is a wrong choice for you, try AUC or SGU.

Good luck!
 
Thanks you guys. I'll definetly weigh your opinions heavily. I really didn't like UIC, but I am going for the best education, and the best oportunities for the future. Still not made up yet, but Ill reexamine my options. Thanks for your kind replies.
 
Yes, I'm a current Ross student.

Basic sciences are mostly self study. Doesnt matter wher eyou go for that. What you should look at when looking at the schools are ....

1) Board pass rates - its gone low before. and they dont say if its overall or 1st time pass rate. 1st time pass rate matters a lot. Not passing on your first attempt eliminates you from some residencies and could hurt your licensing abilities once your a physician (not positive about this).

I believe ross's usmle pass rate is overall (i.e. includes all who have passed on 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th attempts).
2) clinical education - inferior. We dont take shelf exams. All our grading is via attendings evaluating you. I have only worked with family practice residents in my clinical education. I'm almost done with my core rotations.
3) Attrition rate - we're really really high
4) residency placements - yeah we'll get a few competitive residencies that look like it matches up numbers wise with a US school. But remember this can be from nearly 7-900 students (3 semesters worth of 300 student classes). Meaning it realy is that much more difficult to get those residencies coming out of ross.
 
rockjock said:
I was under the impression that your boards make up most of the decision of what residencies you get.
Click to expand...

No, no, no. If you're a Carib grad not passing a step may kill your chances in many places, but ~5% of US grads fail their first attempt and with few exceptions they all match, some even at semi- to very decent places.

You will have to do 10-30 points better in the Carib to get an equivalent position against a US grad. Some programs simply do not interview Carib grads at all (even if your Step 1 is 270).

If you want to do internal med or family med and don't care where you go that's fine. Derm, ENT, etc. will be almost impossible.

And while it may not seem a big deal now, Carib grads have to finish and pass all their step 2ck and 2cs exams before the match deadline whereas US students do not which gives you many more months to finish those exams.

Also remember St. Matt's (not that you're considering it but it's in the Carib) is not a valid place for licensure in California.

And last but not least have you seen UIC's match list? It is very impressive. It is chock full of ortho and ophtho - specialties you can almost never get from Carib schools.

http://www.uic.edu/depts/mcam/osa/careers/MatchData/2006MatchResultsbySpecialty.htm
 
niceMD said:
I just totally pro-Carribean (I am actually planning to attend on this fall) but I have to agree with the others. Even though I think that anyone who is determined and hard working enough can get into competitive residencies with a degree from a carib medical school, I still think it would be a bad idea to chose one over a US school. There are so many factors to consider including being away from the life you know and the people you love, not enough support for students who are not doing well, living conditions etc. You really do not need that when you are trying to do well in school.

Ross in particular. I think that they accept way too many students, knowing that many will leave along the way. I really wish they would accept less and offer more support to those they accept. AUC and SGU would be better options. SGU even has free tutors for students not doing well.

I say go to IL but if you really feel that it is a wrong choice for you, try AUC or SGU.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Ross accepts a lot of students, but what does that have to do with you? Also, Ross offers free tutoring as well. Make sure you make an informed choice.
 
Another thing, if you haven't already, try to read the forums on www.valuemd.com.
The website is focused on foreign & carib mdical schools and you'll be able to communicate with more students in those schools and get more answers to your question.
 
rockjock said:
I'm interested in an honest answer here also. I have been accepted at Ross, University of Illinois, and possible Rosalind Franklin University (still waiting). I always told myself that Ross was just a back up, but after going on my interviews and really doing some research, I am less impressed with the other schools. I was always under the impression that the Carrabean schools were just trying to match american programs, but after interviewing at UIC I actually liked the facilities, curriculum, and resources of Ross a lot. I interviewed at Rockford, so I didn't get the whole picture...but. I would just like to know if there is anyone else out there that are considering a foriegn school such as Ross over limited acceptances in the US, or are you supposed to join a program that you think is inferior or even unaccomidating just because it is the US. Im having a hard time choosing just based on a name. Also, Im from California, and say what you will of Dominica - It is still better than Chicago. Any one elses p.o.v.? Stay Friendly!
Click to expand...
I'm absolutely dumbfounded someone would even ask this
 
There is no such thing is a dumb question. The purpose of this forum is to state your opinion. If there are none then keep your criticisms to yourself. If you have nothing smart to say then don't say it at all. Not everyone thinks and evaluate the same. As far as Ross goes there are some comments on high attrition rates. In my opinion that would be a good thing being that it is a caribbean school and that the stigma is that caribbean schools will take as long as you got the $$$$. Would a high attrition rate not show that the school challenged its students?The truth is that Ross do take students with 17 and so on the MCAT but if you can't pass their standards then maybe you don't need to be a doctor, you know what I mean? I have also heard that many students transfer out to another caribbean school simply because Ross is too difficult and of course there is the dropout. And if you want to talk about high/worst attrition rate ever you might want to check out the history of UAMS in Arkansas. Sometimes in the 70s or maybe earlier there was only 1 Grad. (that's the truth).
 
first time, maybe not a dumb question.... but not a very good one. not all questions are created equal

2nd, repeatidly (sp?) doing it makes it a dumb question

3rd, attrition rate shows a) how much harder you have to work there b) that you probably recognize the faces in your class or class number as you go through the basic sciences. And finally its way too damn early for me right now.

Your comments still doesnt justify choosing Ross over a US school.
 
I didn't make a comment about choosing Ross over US. I personally would choose US over caribb. schools. Any How my comment was towards those who make ******ed ass comments only to discourage instead of encourage. Maybe it is true that Ross can't not be compared to US schools but those who went there felt like they were prepared just as well as their fellow friends who went to US schools. AS far as facts and figures many of Ross Grads. practice here in the US meaning that if their school suck that bad then they should have less Dr. in the US. There are those out there that are more than qualified to be in a US school but don't forget that each year appr. half the number of applicants get seated in US med schools. So what happens to the other half???there are some what 17,000 left. And not everyone wants to get a DO (no offense guys) but if your dream is to be an MD getting a DO doesn't mean that you've achieved your goal. At least not in my opinion. So do please be alittle bit more positive.
 
Since location & facilities apparently are important to you, I assume that you've visited Ross in Dominica? If not, you simply can't make an informed decision.

Other than that, I'd have to agree with the other posters:
1. If at all possible, train in the country where you intend to work. If you do not plan to work in the Carib., don't go there if you can avoid it.
2. While Ross is considered one of the better Carib schools, it's just not better than any US medical school. It's a privately owned for-profit university (owned by listed DeVry University), and doesn't have the accreditation procedures inherent in the LCME structure.
3. People don't go to the Carib because they want to. They do it because they can't get into a US school (or because they can only get into a DO school, and for some reason doesn't want that).
4. A Carib diploma WILL make it harder to get the residency you want. If you're from Ross, and have exactly the same USMLE scores and resume as an UIC grad, I'd bet you that the program will take the UIC. Why? Because you've trained at an accredited US school, as opposed to an unaccredited Carib school. The American grad is simply a better-known entity.
5. Why do you think that so many are so obsessed about medical school rankings? The school name on your diploma matters. Yes, you can probably have a pretty good shot at whatever you want if you have sky-high USMLE scores. But you'll simply need to have a higher score to compete with a Carib diploma. And certain specialities, like plastics and derm, are pretty much out of the question, if you're not from a US school.
6. Do program directors really look at your diploma? You bet! I have participated in selection committees, and personally seen a candidate get rejected for Derm SOLELY because she was a Carib grad.

So in conclusion: You go to the Carib because you can't get into a US school. If you have a choice, study in the country where you expect to work!
 
Thanks to everyone who posted constructive information. I decided to skip the speculation and I went to the source. I spoke to a residency co-ordinator for the UC Davis medical group, and he said they do not take FMG's, not because of score, rep, ect, but because it costs more to insure them. More $= no residency. Obviously this doesn't go for all schools, since there are many foreign grads getting placed in the US, but there are bound to be some. As to all the talk, I am not interested in Derm or the like. I am actually very interested in IM, which - most would agree - is one of the less competetive residencies. Who knows what my preference will be in the future though, so I will stay in the US. I have another interview here shortly (way late, I know) so I will wait to see what happens, but I appreciate all of those comments from those who tried to help. You know who you are.
Cheers
 
rockjock said:
Thanks to everyone who posted constructive information. I decided to skip the speculation and I went to the source. I spoke to a residency co-ordinator for the UC Davis medical group, and he said they do not take FMG's, not because of score, rep, ect, but because it costs more to insure them. More $= no residency. Obviously this doesn't go for all schools, since there are many foreign grads getting placed in the US, but there are bound to be some. As to all the talk, I am not interested in Derm or the like. I am actually very interested in IM, which - most would agree - is one of the less competetive residencies. Who knows what my preference will be in the future though, so I will stay in the US. I have another interview here shortly (way late, I know) so I will wait to see what happens, but I appreciate all of those comments from those who tried to help. You know who you are.
Cheers
Click to expand...


It has been said that higher IQ's tend to lose touch with common sense. This seems to be the case here.

**now you may be thinking to yourself, "did he just compliment me or did he passive-aggressively insult me?"** You should know the answer to that question.
 
I have a feeling your ignorance is false.... in fact you are simply not telling the truth.
Nobody that can do semi-well on the MCAT can ask such a STUPID QUESTION.
If you really do exist... then we should go snip hunting... or unicorn spotting.
Reality is reality.... a state school, half price.... no "why did you go to a Caribbean school" questions to answer... yadda yadda yadda.

I bet you didn't get int a US-med school and are just trying to find reasons to a justify yourself going to a Caribbean med school.
 
rockjock said:
I'm interested in an honest answer here also. I have been accepted at Ross, University of Illinois, and possible Rosalind Franklin University (still waiting). I always told myself that Ross was just a back up, but after going on my interviews and really doing some research, I am less impressed with the other schools. I was always under the impression that the Carrabean schools were just trying to match american programs, but after interviewing at UIC I actually liked the facilities, curriculum, and resources of Ross a lot. I interviewed at Rockford, so I didn't get the whole picture...but. I would just like to know if there is anyone else out there that are considering a foriegn school such as Ross over limited acceptances in the US, or are you supposed to join a program that you think is inferior or even unaccomidating just because it is the US. Im having a hard time choosing just based on a name. Also, Im from California, and say what you will of Dominica - It is still better than Chicago. Any one elses p.o.v.? Stay Friendly!
Click to expand...

As a first year student in the DPM (podiatry) program at Rosalind Franklin U, we take a lot of courses with the MD students and obviously have acces to all the same resources they do. I can tell you one thing. You will get a solid education at RFU. The facilities are incredible. The anatomy lab is huge and has flat screen rotatable computers above each tank containing the lab manual, dissection videos made by faculty, and an interactive atlas. We also utilize an virtual histology lab (very cool).

The match list for RFU is also really good. Most american med schools, MD or DO, have a better chance of getting you into a good residency than Carribean. The downside to CMS at RFU is that tuition is quite high. Best of luck.
 
ndspider said:
I have a feeling your ignorance is false.... in fact you are simply not telling the truth.
Nobody that can do semi-well on the MCAT can ask such a STUPID QUESTION.
If you really do exist... then we should go snip hunting... or unicorn spotting.
Reality is reality.... a state school, half price.... no "why did you go to a carriban school" questions to answer... yadda yadda yadda.

I bet you didn't get int a US-med school and are just trying to find reasons you went to a justify yourself going to a carribean medischool.

Just my two cents... from a lurker!
s
Click to expand...
I don't understand why ppl are calling the OP a '*******' and labeling his question as a 'stupid' one. Believe it or not, there are some ppl who choose to pursue medicine late in the game and are just not as knowledgable about schools, reputation, location, cost etc as the rest of us......and are therefore genuinely intrigued. There's nothing wrong with asking this question.

However, there is a clear answer - it doesn't matter if anatomy is held in a mud hut and the location of the school makes you envy the survivor islands (pointing to the OP's concerns regarding resources, location of UIC.....), if you have a choice between an LCME accredited MD school on the mainland US versus a Carib school, I would advise you go for the US school, regardless of how lovely the resources and/or location were at the Carib school.

Seriously, it could drastically affect your future in the medical profession.


Good Luck,
Knight


P.S. The OP is from Cali, so UIC is not a state school for him. Not to mention the fact that UIC costs a whopping $70 grand per year for out-of-staters to attend, so cost IS a factor when it comes to a decision. Still, I would definitely go for UIC over Ross, SGU or AUC.
 
phisigman03 said:
There is no such thing is a dumb question. The purpose of this forum is to state your opinion. If there are none then keep your criticisms to yourself. If you have nothing smart to say then don't say it at all. Not everyone thinks and evaluate the same. As far as Ross goes there are some comments on high attrition rates. In my opinion that would be a good thing being that it is a caribbean school and that the stigma is that caribbean schools will take as long as you got the $$$$. Would a high attrition rate not show that the school challenged its students?The truth is that Ross do take students with 17 and so on the MCAT but if you can't pass their standards then maybe you don't need to be a doctor, you know what I mean? I have also heard that many students transfer out to another caribbean school simply because Ross is too difficult and of course there is the dropout. And if you want to talk about high/worst attrition rate ever you might want to check out the history of UAMS in Arkansas. Sometimes in the 70s or maybe earlier there was only 1 Grad. (that's the truth).
Click to expand...

Actually it was in 1880, and he was the very first graduate at what was a new school.
http://www.uams.edu/medcenter/history.asp
 
Those of you lambasting this guy for his "stupid" questions are posting responses so full of spelling and grammatical errors that I'd think I was reading a forum for 4th graders.
 
chookie said:
Those of you lambasting this guy for his "stupid" questions are posting responses so full of spelling and grammatical errors that I'd think I was reading a forum for 4th graders.
Click to expand...

Ackchewely, these forom es four aages won two fife. wer es mi blu craon?
 
Hey...I am off the hook. Cartman IS a 4th Grader. ;)

Som-times ii goo bak and reed my posts, and ii get veryy embarrrasssed. Butt i thought it is the content thatt countss thee mostt. :oops:

Goood Luk :horns:
 
LOL......It's a hilarious how some of these members are in Med. School but they reacted to a little criticism like a bunch of elementary kids.
 
zek said:
Actually it was in 1880, and he was the very first graduate at what was a new school.
http://www.uams.edu/medcenter/history.asp
Click to expand...



my mistake on the year. But I was at the orientation on interview day and no it was a new school. According the Dr. (blah), that was the first graduate from the what is now the UAMS campus. Before that time the med school prof help lectures in random buildings most of what is now veterans hospital, U of A law school, and business buildings. And plus Dr. (blah) said so himself it was the worst attrition rate he has ever heard of.
 
dang........ I guess I need a spell check myself. Make that NOT a new school and prof HELD.
 
I have no beef at all against carib schools but I'd say suck it up and go to the american. It'll just make life easier in the long run. I know you weren't impressed by the campus but in the longrun it is just the better choice.....you say you won't get mentally worn down by seeing people fail and so on..but until you live there for a while and go through the hassles you really can't tell... Everyone experiences some degree of "culture shock" whether they beleive it or not. It last longer for some than for others but it can be a significant impact on life and studies while on an island. Heck I'm in major city now in a different country and I just can't seem to focus like I used to..and that is with most of the same things I had at home..excluding free refills, comedy central, and family guy..oh how I miss you.
 
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