Year-long Cumulative Exams?

[soxbox]

so CSU has decided that starting with my class, every year there will be a cumulative exam of all classes taken up to that point... and ours happens to be tomorrow.... so instead of studying I wanted to see if there were any other poor souls out there who are doing the same thing? I guess the idea is not so bad as it will help us for boards, but having it 2 weeks into the semester is really horrible. I have yet to really start studying for anything else yet (though we did have our first exam on Tues already... though it wasn't very big)...

since we are the guinea pig class we have no idea what to expect... just that every single class that we had last year will all be in one giant exam tomorrow (scheduled from 3pm-8pm)... oh yeah, and they make us go normal classes first!!! Then next fall we will have a 2 year cumulative exam and so on...

ok... well I guess enough venting... probably should crack open a notebook or two

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[Electrophile]

Wow. That really sucks. Our histology final was over 1.5 semesters and I wanted to die. What do they do with your score? What do they do if you don't pass?

 

[tastrophe]

so CSU has decided that starting with my class, every year there will be a cumulative exam of all classes taken up to that point... and ours happens to be tomorrow.... so instead of studying I wanted to see if there were any other poor souls out there who are doing the same thing? I guess the idea is not so bad as it will help us for boards, but having it 2 weeks into the semester is really horrible. I have yet to really start studying for anything else yet (though we did have our first exam on Tues already... though it wasn't very big)...

since we are the guinea pig class we have no idea what to expect... just that every single class that we had last year will all be in one giant exam tomorrow (scheduled from 3pm-8pm)... oh yeah, and they make us go normal classes first!!! Then next fall we will have a 2 year cumulative exam and so on...

ok... well I guess enough venting... probably should crack open a notebook or two

This sounds like a graduate (PhD) Part I qualifying exam - it wasn't as horrible as it was made out to sound, at least IMO. I studied for ours for 4-5 weeks and did fine. With ours, it was spread over 2 days, 8 hours each day, and they dropped both the highest and the lowest scoring question from each day before calculating your grade. Sadly, the exam was phased out when not enough people were doing well on it; I felt it was really important to show you really have grasped the concepts and were able to put them to practical use (there were no rote memory questions on the test). But then, I might not feel that way if I was one of those that didn't do well I guess...

All of that said, though, our exam only spanned one year of classes, I'm not so sure how I'd feel about a 2+yr cumulative (although I guess that's essentially what navle is anyway, so maybe it's good practice)

Above all else, GOOD LUCK!!! And let us know how it goes!

 

[WannaFixFounder]

Heck, I heard about that months ago when I was chatting about CSU and everyone was criticizing me.

Good luck. How much notice did you have?

My vet, and CSU grad, said she knew many people who graduated that deserved to fail out. The whole 'if you fail you can take one_more_exam and pass the whole class definatly isn't helping prepare for passing boards, the first time at least.

 

[HeartSong]

Wow, it sounds like a good idea, but not something I would want to go through. Some of our year long courses like Parasitology and Infectious Diseases had full year comprehensive finals, but mostly the basic stuff from the first semester.

The timing is horrible too. I personally would rather have a Saturday morning exam than one late in the afternoon and evening like that. I'm curious about the impact it has on the students too. What consequences are there to failing and do they look at it in seperate subjects or all as a whole? Good luck, hope you did well and have some time this weekend to recover from it.

 

[tastrophe]

My vet, and CSU grad, said she knew many people who graduated that deserved to fail out. The whole 'if you fail you can take one_more_exam and pass the whole class definatly isn't helping prepare for passing boards, the first time at least.

Dunno if this was directed at me or not, but in the program I referred to, if you didn't do well (B or better overall average) in your classes you couldn't take this cumulative exam; if you didn't take the exam you were out, and if you failed the exam you were out - it was definitely not a last-ditch effort to get people through, quite the opposite really. Since they did away with the exam, the program has grown substantially

I'm very curious to hear how CSU will use these scores, as well as to hear how the students did! OP please let us know!

 

[HeartSong]

Dunno if this was directed at me or not, but in the program I referred to, if you didn't do well (B or better overall average) in your classes you couldn't take this cumulative exam; if you didn't take the exam you were out, and if you failed the exam you were out - it was definitely not a last-ditch effort to get people through, quite the opposite really. Since they did away with the exam, the program has grown substantially

I'm very curious to hear how CSU will use these scores, as well as to hear how the students did! OP please let us know!

I'm pretty sure that wasn't directed to you. You probably don't know how vet school classes work yet, but if you get a D (failing grade) in a class you can take an advancement exam. As long as you pass that exam, you pass the class. Though I don't see what exams have to do with being a vet anyway. I know several top ranking students who I personally feel have no right to be a vet. I think anyone who starves their own dog to death just because it poops too much should automatically get booted from vet school. But apparently there are those who feel answering multiple choice questions is more important and those are the people handing out grades, not me.

 

[ri23]

I'm pretty sure that wasn't directed to you. You probably don't know how vet school classes work yet, but if you get a D (failing grade) in a class you can take an advancement exam. As long as you pass that exam, you pass the class. Though I don't see what exams have to do with being a vet anyway. I know several top ranking students who I personally feel have no right to be a vet. I think anyone who starves their own dog to death just because it poops too much should automatically get booted from vet school. But apparently there are those who feel answering multiple choice questions is more important and those are the people handing out grades, not me.

That is certainly not true at all schools. At Ohio State, if you fail a class you fail a class. If it is a core class (not one in the curriculum), you have to wait a whole year and retake it (therefore becoming a part of the next class).

 

[laurafinn]

so CSU has decided that starting with my class, every year there will be a cumulative exam of all classes taken up to that point... and ours happens to be tomorrow.... so instead of studying I wanted to see if there were any other poor souls out there who are doing the same thing?

My school does cumulative exams, but doesn't integrate multiple subjects into one exam. For instance, by the third semester, the Anatomy exam tests everything you learn up to that point, although the emphasis is on the last semester of material. In third and fourth years, most of your grade is based on the year-end test for each subject. IIRC the third years had 9 exams over 13 days last November. Brutal.

 

[Tayaki]

My school we also have year end exams. They're essay exams with 2 hours to pour your whole brain out on paper. These exams are 100% of our grade. So, let's say if I get a D- on my anatomy paper, that's what I get for the whole year.

My undergraduate was nothing like this. We had continuous learning, and I really miss it. I never thought I would say this, but if I had an exam every week versus all year end ones, I'd be elated.

I just don't think I test well with these types of exams.

 

[soxbox]

well... it's over It was quite painful... starting a 4-5 hour exam at 3pm on a Friday that encompasses every single class we took first year is just evil. The test was something along the lines of 170 multiple choice questions and about 6-8 pages of short answer type questions. If you did not pass this test, you will only have to retake the sections that you failed, which is so much better than taking this whole thing over again!! This test does not affect our rank, but you must pass it to continue on in the program. Tomorrow starts our open book portion of the exam which is open for 2 weeks.

And to just twist the knife a little more, they made us have our 7 hour sophmore orientation yesterday, (Saturday), at 8am. Mean... just mean

I think the idea of these exams really are a good one... it definitely helps to point out the areas you are weak in... and the next 2 giant exams we take are going to become more and more integrative amongst subjects whereas this one was still pretty segregated amongst the various classes (which makes sense as first year is mostly learning the basic facts for each discipline)... I just really hope next year we do not take it 2 weeks into the year on a Friday at 3pm!!!

 

[WannaFixFounder]

If you did not pass this test, you will only have to retake the sections that you failed, which is so much better than taking this whole thing over again!! This test does not affect our rank, but you must pass it to continue on in the program. Tomorrow starts our open book portion of the exam which is open for 2 weeks.

If you fail those parts a 2nd time, are there any repercussions? Or is it truly impossible for someone who has proven that they don't know what they are doing at CSU to become a doctor? The reasoning behind giving exams without the possibility of failing just eludes me. I get the concept that you would know what area you were weak on, but shouldn't that already be reflected in the grades?

What parts were open book? I couldn't imagine open book for 1st year classes, at least the ones we have.

Were the end of semester exams cumulative?

 

[VAgirl]

If you fail those parts a 2nd time, are there any repercussions? Or is it truly impossible for someone who has proven that they don't know what they are doing at CSU to become a doctor? The reasoning behind giving exams without the possibility of failing just eludes me. I get the concept that you would know what area you were weak on, but shouldn't that already be reflected in the grades?

What parts were open book? I couldn't imagine open book for 1st year classes, at least the ones we have.

Were the end of semester exams cumulative?

What about people who fail the boards the first time around? They get to sit them again. There is no penalty that I'm aware of, aside from having to take the exam again. (And of course not get your license until that happens.) And I know that for at least some of the specialty boards, you can retake (at least once) the exam if you fail. And you only have to retake the sections you failed. Sound familiar?

At Davis, if you fail a course there is a remediation process by which you can redo coursework over the summer (with consent of the professor), retake exams, and get back your class standing if everything goes well. That doesn't sound very different from what's going on in this situation at CSU (aside from the yearlong cumulative bit). And then, if remediation fails, you can repeat the year.

Honestly, I don't think vet schools having processes by which people can retake exams/courses is as abnormal as you're trying to make it sound. Now, if you think that re-taking practice sucks, that's fine, your prerogative, and maybe a very valid point of view, but don't make it sound like CSU is the only vet school that has anything like this. It is not.

 

[laurafinn]

I don't think vet schools having processes by which people can retake exams/courses is as abnormal as you're trying to make it sound. Now, if you think that re-taking practice sucks, that's fine, your prerogative, and maybe a very valid point of view, but don't make it sound like CSU is the only vet school that has anything like this. It is not.

Well said. Like other vet schools, Massey allows students who get a D in a class to sit a supplementary exam at the end of the summer. If they pass that exam, they can progress to the next year with the rest of their class.

Also, our biochemistry lab test (although not the lecture test) in the first year was open book.

 

[QTkitty]

I think it's also important to note that we're the guinea pig class for this exam and administration will use our scores to adjust the way the exam is given. Maybe in the future, if a student fails the exam, there will be harsher repercussions. Not having any foreknowledge about what to expect from us as students, it would be ridiculous to make it mandatory to fail a ton of people out if a section of the exam was faulty. We have already been told that if a large portion of the class does poorly on a given section it will be used as an indication that there are certain things that our professors may have thought were key points that were not communicated to us as such. Also, the Capstone exam is supposed to prepare us for board exams, not be a board exam in itself... We have already passed our classes and proven that we are capable of learning the material. This exam is to get us used to sitting through a 5 hour exam and answer board type questions. I hope that clarifies things a bit...

 

[VAgirl]

This exam is to get us used to sitting through a 5 hour exam and answer board type questions. I hope that clarifies things a bit...

That's what it sounded like. It actually sounds like a valuable (if very painful) experience.

 

[charismarl]

I think this sounds horrible and like I would probably rebel against this hardcore...but realistically it's kind of like what we're going to have to do to study for boards (only I'm sure boards are going to be way more scary). You will probably be much better off in the long run...

 

[projekt]

The board exam questions professors have mentioned in class seem really picayune, like remembering little tiny aspects of biochemistry.