Yale vs. Northwestern

[timetodecide2018]

After seemingly have decided on a school, everything changed over the weekend due to new financial information. I’ve narrowed down my choices between Northwestern and Yale but am terribly conflicted about my decision. Monday is almost here...

To clarify, I wouldn’t have to take out loans for either of these schools, but Yale is 80k more expensive over 4 years.

Northwestern (120k)

Pros
+++: Location (Chicago, family in town and close by in the Midwest means great support system)
++: Highest chance of matching to Chicago residency after medical school
+: Better affiliated hospital reputation
+: Greater number of strong home residency programs that I’m interested in

Cons
-/-/-: Traditional curriculum with grades, shelf exams, and internal rankings reported to residency programs
-/-: Weaker match list compared to Yale
-: Less prestigious school
-: Larger class size

Yale (200k)

Pros
+++: Prestigious school with great opportunities inside and outside of medicine
+++: Low stress culture with no rankings, AOA, or shelf exams
++: Better match list
++: Yale System affords true flexibility

Cons
-/-/-: Location (New Haven pales in comparison to Chicago, far from most family except few in NYC)
-/-: More expensive
-: Weaker clinical reputation?

Summary:

I love the idea of living in Chicago close to family for medical school, but I also love the Yale System and low stress culture it fosters. Not sure if location or fit should be my priority...

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[rball]

OP I'd go with Yale here. I think at the end of the day fit should trump location; you're going to be a med student after all and finding the school that works best for you is more important. It seems that school is Yale, so I'd go Yale. You're absolutely right about the lower stress culture at Yale, the perks of the Yale system are going to do so much for your quality of life. You mention prestige, and in terms of prestige, I think Yale is a bit higher vs. Northwestern (though not by much). The affiliated hospital thing is a bit of a moot point; Yale students receive fantastic clinical training anyways from what I've heard, since the hospital is a great teaching hospital. Kind of like with Pritzker - their hospital system may not be as renowned as say Northwestern Memorial, but students receive fantastic clinical training nonetheless.

As far as home residencies go, that's normally an important consideration, but in this case since Yale students match so well at away institutions, it shouldn't be too big of a problem. You anyways say that Yale has a better match list, so that kind of makes up for lack of home-field advantage for top residency programs that you'd otherwise get at NW.

As far as support systems go, having one close by can be helpful, which is a major plus for NW. But I also think it is a good opportunity to move to a new area and expand your horizons during medical school before settling down. NW may give an edge for matching in Chicago specifically, but I think overall Yale would be as strong for matching in the midwest and almost as strong for matching in Chicago itself.

Also OP, I'm a new member here so I don't know of all the intricacies of SDN, but I'd be cautious when reviewing posts. The person who posted above me has posted several negative posts about Yale//New Haven in other threads telling people the other school was the "easy choice" over Yale, leading me to believe he/she may be on their waitlist. I've seen similar bashing of Yale by a few other members on some other "X vs. Yale" threads here for no apparent reason. I have no dog in this fight, as I'm already in med school, but just be aware that some people may have ulterior motives during this time of year. Do what's best for you; I don't think you can go wrong, but you said your bottom line was "fit vs. location." I think fit is more important for med school, so because of that, I'd go Yale. I don't think 80K is enough to justify going to a school you don't feel as great a "fit" for, but if finances are a major concern then NW is still an excellent choice.

 

[rball]

Well sadkmladks its just interesting that you're a new member and you've posted on three different threads now saying that the user should pick a different school than Yale, and on two of the other ones you said its a clear choice or the orher school has a much better name in medicine than Yale. I dont know how you can say with a straight face that any school has a much better name than Yale.
You're right this post of yours isn't bashing Yale, but some of your others seem negative towards it. There have been other users who have been far more negative, saying things like Yale is on a steady decline or is for students who couldnt get into other top tiers, so I guess I'm just taken aback by all the unfounded negativity towards Yale. But I don't want to get into it with you, just want to warn the OP during this time of year people can have ulterior motives.
I think it comes down to how much the OP values home field advantage at NW, cost, and support system vs. better fit (according to OP), better match list, lower stress, greater prestige. I'd argue the latter factors are more important which is why I'd pick Yale. Dont think he/she can go wrong either way though.

 

[imgonnabeadoc]

Northwestern, better city!

 

[medguy92]

OP, I think location vs fit vs prestige is an issue many of us have had. Keep in mind you're on SDN though so many people will tell you to go to higher ranked school, however, the rankings here (11 vs 20) are negligible and won't have a real impact on your future.

Now, I would argue that location and fit go together. For example, some of your perceived concerns about stressfulness with NU curriculum and stress-free environment at Yale will be alleviated and amplified by your surroundings. Being close to your support network and apart of a great city will actually make NU a lot less stressful. On the flipside, the city of New Haven, being far from family, debt (about 100k+with interest), and a small class size could actually make Yale a lot more stressful than what is branded to you.

These are both great schools, but I do believe that family, support, and location do end up creating the best "fit." I think NU would be a fantastic choice here for you

 

[timetodecide2018]

Thank you for the thoughtful feedback everyone. It seems the community here is also a bit divided—at least that validates that this decision is difficult and I’m not just being needlessly indecisive. Can anyone who had to make a similar decision (location vs. fit) provide any insight on their decision making process and what was the better choice in hindsight?

 

[medguy92]

I choose Einstein (location) over Emory (fit/prestige). While I have yet to matriculate, every decision I've made up to now (college, jobs, SOs) I've gone with my heart and have never regretted anything.

My pro vs cons was similar to yours. Emory had stronger programs in my specialty of interest, a newer (non-traditional) curriculum, and better overall match. It has a better name too and was definitely a "sexier" choice.

However, I picked Einstein for many of the pros similar to your NU's. I wanted to match back in NYC, my family is in NYC metro area, and most of my friends moved to NYC after college. After being far away for college I realized the importance of family and support network during challenging times of my life.

Overall, they are both tremendous schools but I realized it is ME, and not the school, that will advance my career and development. Einstein and my built-in support network provide me the strongest support structures, and city environment, for me to grow and suceed.

 

[ejay19955]

It is a really difficult decision. Don't even worry about the 80k difference over 4 years. That's less than half of an attending salary including the interest you will have accumulated by then.

The fact that Yale is slightly better ranked will be offset (or arguably even over-compensated) by the fact that Northwestern will give you a better chance at matching into a Chicago residency (if that is really important to you), so don't worry about the prestige either.

So it comes down to your QOL.

Idk the details of the Northwestern grading system, the Yale system is a huge plus to one's QOL. Also it gives you extra time for studying for the board exams.

Location - I know New Haven sucks. Hated it the first moment I stepped onto that city for the interview and normally I like being at new places. Chicago is way cooler as you'd agree. However, it's just 4 years of your life. Unless being in that particular city makes you suicidal or something it should be of lesser importance IMO.

How important are your family and support system to you? Personally, visiting my family every few months was (more than) enough for me (sorry mom). I google hangout them often enough that I don't miss them. I went to a college near my family, but ended up spending most of my time doing my own things, working, studying, etc., so I realized the proximity to my family isn't that important to me, so I went out-of-state for my med school and do not regret this decision at all. That said, to some people family or SO is really important and I see some of my classmates traveling home literally for every chance they get. If you are going to be that kind of person, Northwestern is certainly a better choice. Otherwise, Yale. You'll really appreciate the Yale system when you get to the clinicals. It is very demoralizing when you score in the top 20% for the shelf and still just pass.

 

[rball]

To answer your question OP, I chose fit over location for undergrad. Moved away from my support system, got a chance to expand my horizons and experience a new part of the country, and it was great. Furthermore, going to a school where I felt at home, where I felt the best fit, truly allowed me to perform my best and get into some solid med schools. I had people telling me not to go because of location, but ultimately my advisor encouraged me to pursue the best fit and I couldnt have been happier with that.

For med school, I picked best fit, although to be honest the school is in a good city (though I did pick it over another school in a much better city). I haven't looked back since; I've really enjoyed my time here and been able to perform my best because I feel "at home" and just really love the school. The location is important, and if you have support system there it makes it even more important, but I think for med school from my experience you're so busy studying/doing research/on the wards/etc. that location shouldn't be prioritized over how you like the school itself. Ultimately you should go where you will be happiest; if you think location+support system will make you happier at NW you should go there. But from my n=1 experience, the fit at the school and aspects of the school itself make more of a difference. Everyone's different though.

As ejay eloquently stated, the Yale system does so much for your QOL and your residency matching ability (by virtually guaranteeing all honors) it's unbelievable and you shouldn't underestimate it.

This is only one perspective from a student on the west coast, but Yale does have a slightly better name recognition back here from talking to attendings. It's on a level with top west coast schools and schools like Columbia, Duke, etc. NW has a strong national reputation, but from my experience its a bit lower than Yale (for med school only, hospital and residencies are different). I think this is evidenced in the disparity between match lists you had talked about. NW will give you a slightly better shot at matching in Chicago though.

Bottom line, both great schools. I would really caution against thinking about the money too much unless you/your family is burdened by it. Ultimately you will be an attending, you will pay it back, and you will be fine taking on some debt. I think money is always a valid concern, but when we're talking $80 K, I don't think that's enough to justify going to a place if you won't like it as much. You only get one shot at med school, you dont want to have any "what ifs."

 

[pilgrampirate86]

Don't live your life dictated by fear and regret. Go where your heart is, it is never wrong, which sounds like NW.

Also, OP, don't listen to people who talk about "reputation", "residency scores", etc. It's beneficial when comparing extremes. Otherwise, it's meaningless superficial SDN talk. You did not get to where you are now because your undergrad was ranked 8 spots higher than one you could have attended. You got to where you are from your hard work, dedication, and support network

 

[rball]

I respectfully disagree with pilgrimpirate86; I've talked to numerous attendings and fourth years who have gone through match process and it makes a big difference where you go (assuming you perform equally at each place, which is a big "if"). IMO it shouldn't, but it does. That is evidenced in the match lists. There are separate tiers of schools and within them, no difference. But between them, a bit of a difference for sure. To be fair, pilgrimpirate86 has referenced in other threads the prestige of other top schools vs. Yale. So I guess in some cases it does matter to him/her...
Ultimately go where you will be happiest OP, and don't look back. Congrats on your great dilemma.

 

[rball]

Lol okay sadkmladkds; I just told the OP to go where he/she will be happiest. I think they SHOULD follow their heart, not shouldn't. That's what my past few posts have been about. I just want to make sure OP has the facts about reputation too, because he/she listed that as one of their concerns. And reputation doesn't come from arbitrary USNEWS rankings btw, it comes from opinions of attendings and residency programs. If the OP's heart is at NW, he/she should go there, if it's at Yale, he/she should go Yale. I'm by no means saying Yale is some magical institution, I'm just trying, as someone who's gone through this process before, to give the OP unbiased advice based on his/her pros/cons.

 

[lakeofavalon]

Money is always an important consideration, but it really depends on what matters to you the most. Prestige, location, support system, family, affiliated hospitals, clinical training, and your personal aspirations all have to be taken into account. Best of luck!

 

[marieskiier]

Go where your heart is telling you to go. I grew up in Chicago and had a very similar decision: top 20 school in Chicago vs. Yale. I ended up choosing to stay close to home because I knew that having my support system during what could be the hardest years of my life was really important to me -- nothing could be more important. I'm really happy I made the decision I did, because I had some family things that happened during medical school and I was glad that I was never more than 30 minutes from home. I also saved a good load of money as a side perk. Good luck! Go with your gut, and trust your instincts!

 

[Willy38]

I'm at Yale and love it however if you are dead set on staying in Chicago, then attending a Chicago school makes more sense. Prestige matters, both of which Yale and NW have, as does home advantage which is only NW in your case. Unless you feel a strong compulsion to come to Yale, I'd say go to NW.

At the end of the day, you should go where you'll be happiest, which is different for each individual. Just try to be honest with yourself about what factors contribute to that for you.

 

[timetodecide2018]

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[deleted866694]

Congrats on deciding, OP! You're going to a great program.

For the sake of future readers, I wanted to mention two points:

- Regional bias in matching is real, but it's bidirectional. Yale matches fewer people to Chicago (partly) because fewer Yale students want to go there. If you clearly indicate that you want to end up there (and can show you have real reasons for wanting Chicago), then coming from the Northeast won't be a huge hurdle.

- I used to be one of those people who are like, "$150K in debt is not much compared to an attending's salary so it shouldn't affect choice of school/specialty." And obviously that's true if you're talking about wealth accumulation over the course of a lifetime. But in terms of what your life will be like during residency -- when many people are starting new families, moving far away, taking care of aging parents, etc. -- the amount of your loan repayments matters a lot.

You should probably still pick your schools/specialties based on other factors. But be aware that large loans may mean putting off having children, missing your friends' weddings, not being able to visit parents, renting instead of buying, etc. in your 20s/30s.