Yale medical students issue demands for diversity

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When you put qualified black applicants in quotes it makes me believe you do not think they are really qualified black applicants. Some students drop out because of the work, but some drop out because of the culture. The poster has already stated her interest in medicine specifically and responders trying to redirect her toward other careers.

No one is that thick. He's commenting on the other poster who is saying she is 'qualified' but based on what she has said here, there seem to be other things which would fit her better than clinical training, and also help her achieve her goals. You don't know enough to realize how naive or misinterpreted a lot of her medical statements are.

Do you know how many people I met in undergrad who said they were interested in being a doctor, only to find out they had straight C's and had no idea what residency was? And that they were going to go 'major' in orthopedic surgery? Saying you are interested is much different than actually matriculating. Only ~1/10 premeds makes it to medical school.

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KY 7 u j8jk ok o op

I'm not sure if acting immaturely towards a person at least 10 years younger than you makes you feel better about yourself? If that's the case, I recommed you speak to a therapist about your deep insecurities--hopefully before your midlife crisis.
He's using satire to make the point the rest of us have been trying to make for the last 2 pages. Since rational attempts to get you to understand have failed, satire is certainly worth a shot.
 
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I think before anyone else comments on this thread they should actually read it. There have to be a few hundred posts in here, and many of them cite actual studies.
Systemic bias in the education system, as well as the healthcare system have already been established.
Difference in doctor-patient care depending on race has been established.
"Privilege" in relation to race, sex/gender, and socioeconomic position, is a legitimate term has already been established as such.
Ray Bradbury has already been mentioned far too many times.
The Tuskegee Syphilis study ended in 72. (I'm surprised no one mentioned the forced sterilization of Puerto Rican women in the 50s-70s).
Social Justice has been established as a real thing (John Rawls anyone? If not then Ruth Faden?)
Affirmative action is not "racist" by original definition or contemporary definition, you can argue that out amongst yourselves.
Trigger warnings certainly do have a place in universities, using cases that are near hyperbole to prove that they don't is disingenuous.
Anything else?

And I'm surprised you didn't mention the forced sterilization of 'imbeciles' and the 'feebleminded' from the earlier part of the Century and that some states had these laws on the books until the early 70s. There is a lot which this thread hasn't talked about...because it's about Yale.

Some of the things you mention are cold hard fact and others are up for debate. Similarly, you are talking about healthcare disparities which is an established issue. This thread is talking about a specific medical school.

The problem with some of the people posting in here is accepting that not everything said in the name of social justice is a forgone conclusion.
 
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KY 7 u j8jk ok o op

I'm not sure if acting immaturely towards a person at least 10 years younger than you makes you feel better about yourself? If that's the case, I recommed you speak to a therapist about your deep insecurities--hopefully before your midlife crisis.

Ignore everything and keep rolling with the med school stuff. The only thing you have to learn is that your time is actually better spent to study biology than to try to educate people who aren't interested.
 
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Ignore everything and keep rolling with the med school stuff. The only thing you have to learn is that your time is actually better spent to study biology than to try to educate people who aren't interested.

You realize that--as a premed--you've come into a conversation populated with medical students, physicians, and even admissions staff who have more experience and context for the topic at hand than you do. After not really engaging in any sort of discussion, you then start telling everyone that they are wrong and that our input/advice should be ignored because it doesn't fit your narrative? Telling an adcom how you know how they need to do their job?

You are perpetuating the self-absorbed ideology which people are discussing. I'm not part of the 'old guard' either. I am part of your generation.
 
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What the **** are you talking about? Yes, you can make good money as a physician but somehow turning it into a justified type of 'slavery reparations' is just ridiculous. I don't believe I know anyone with, "slavery money."

Also, 'qualified' does not mean 'good doctor.' Like the other poster, you seem to be too early in your path to realize this. It's not a bad thing but realize that experience puts perspective on what it takes and what is possible to do as a physician.

What are you talking about slavery reparations? (Side note, we never actually got reparations from the American government but jewish people from the holocaust did) doing philanthropic work for my own community to better it is "slavery reparations"?
"I believe I don't know anyone with slavery money" I'm not even going to get into that, because it's going to get even more off topic.

And I'm surprised you didn't mention the forced sterilization of 'imbeciles' and the 'feebleminded' from the earlier part of the Century and that some states had these laws on the books until the early 70s. There is a lot which this thread hasn't talked about...because it's about Yale.

Some of the things you mention are cold hard fact and others are up for debate. Similarly, you are talking about healthcare disparities which is an established issue. This thread is talking about a specific medical school.

The problem with some of the people posting in here is accepting that not everything said in the name of social justice is a forgone conclusion.
They are being addressed because in the open letter they touch on these problems. And people other people in the thread were incredulous, so they were explained
Despite the fact that CBE alone is not recommended for breast cancer screening? And testing for diabetes costs money - even if you buy your own A1c machine, we're talking $40/test. Yeah, I totally see you giving that away for free in 15 years.
I know around me they offer free diabetes testing. And many women whose breast cancer was caught early due to planned parenthood screenings are happy that it was. Anything is better than nothing.
 
I know around me they offer free diabetes testing. And many women whose breast cancer was caught early due to planned parenthood screenings are happy that it was. Anything is better than nothing.
Likely a finger-stick glucose. If its high, you still have the two-fold problem of 1) Is this actually diabetes (finding out is expensive) and 2) If it is, how to get it treated (also expensive).

Planned Parenthood orders mammograms. They may have a fund to help low-income folks get them, I honestly don't know.

"Anything is better than nothing" displays a shocking ignorance of how medicine works. This isn't surprising since you are still in undergrad, but it becomes an issue when you try and tell us how things should be.
 
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What are you talking about slavery reparations? (Side note, we never actually got reparations from the American government but jewish people from the holocaust did) doing philanthropic work for my own community to better it is "slavery reparations"?
"I believe I don't know anyone with slavery money" I'm not even going to get into that, because it's going to get even more off topic.

If you look at what I was addressing, it was something @skinnylion said about "decreasing the racial wage disparity" through hiring more physicians of color. I was not responding to you.
 
Likely a finger-stick glucose. If its high, you still have the two-fold problem of 1) Is this actually diabetes (finding out is expensive) and 2) If it is, how to get it treated (also expensive).

Planned Parenthood orders mammograms. They may have a fund to help low-income folks get them, I honestly don't know.

"Anything is better than nothing" displays a shocking ignorance of how medicine works. This isn't surprising since you are still in undergrad, but it becomes an issue when you try and tell us how things should be.

free PSAs for all!
 
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There are few things more abhorrent in modern society than the legalized discrimination known as affirmative action. It leaves whites/males worse off by barring them from opportunities for which they qualify. It leaves minorities/women worse off because everybody questions whether they became physicians, dentists, etc because they actually deserved it or simply because of their skin color/gender.
AA, and all of this other conversation that has been vibrant as of late, reduces us all to mere skin colors and genders. It strips us of our personalities, achievements, and character.
There is no sure fire answer to the race question, but AA and the current conversation most definitely is NOT it!
 
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This entire thread:

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There are few things more abhorrent in modern society than the legalized discrimination known as affirmative action. It leaves whites/males worse off by barring them from opportunities for which they qualify. It leaves minorities/women worse off because everybody questions whether they became physicians, dentists, etc because they actually deserved it or simply because of their skin color/gender.
AA, and all of this other conversation that has been vibrant as of late, reduces us all to mere skin colors and genders. It strips us of our personalities, achievements, and character.
There is no sure fire answer to the race question, but AA and the current conversation most definitely is NOT it!
Oh, god. I'm not even going to touch this one
 
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There are few things more abhorrent in modern society than the legalized discrimination known as affirmative action. It leaves whites/males worse off by barring them from opportunities for which they qualify. It leaves minorities/women worse off because everybody questions whether they became physicians, dentists, etc because they actually deserved it or simply because of their skin color/gender.
AA, and all of this other conversation that has been vibrant as of late, reduces us all to mere skin colors and genders. It strips us of our personalities, achievements, and character.
There is no sure fire answer to the race question, but AA and the current conversation most definitely is NOT it!

Affirmative action would work better if there were special extremely well funded elementary schools just for black children that white children were excluded from
 
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Affirmative action would work better if there were special extremely well funded elementary schools just for black children that white children were excluded from

Gold
 
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I actually don't believe in affirmative action though
 
Ignore everything and keep rolling with the med school stuff. The only thing you have to learn is that your time is actually better spent to study biology than to try to educate people who aren't interested.

Assuming you're not an alt for the other poster, and the other poster isn't trolling (two big assumptions), then I urge PlsHelp to listen to the medical students and physicians in this thread, who actually have a bit of a clue, instead of a pre-med who just joined the site and hasn't posted in any thread but this one.
 
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Assuming you're not an alt for the other poster, and the other poster isn't trolling (two big assumptions), then I urge PlsHelp to listen to the medical students and physicians in this thread, who actually have a bit of a clue, instead of a pre-med who just joined the site and hasn't posted in any thread but this one.

No I mean I just think all racism is racism. It's like the points she made were good points most of the way through. I don't agree with everything but I think they were pretty well informed. It's like yeah you are right she should make sure that she wants to go to medical school but if she's saying she does she probably does. The same way there are a lot of students who want to become physicians who might not be apt there are a lot of medical students competing for specialties who might not be apt. If she actually wants to care for underserved in a primary care role that would be good for the school.
 
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I mean I think this was a great thread we heard from black voices and LGBT voices and I mean I think that was great
 
Oh I totally agree- you can't win hearts and minds by attacking the way people live and telling them they should feel awful about the way they conduct themselves. It's just a very poor way of approaching things- they're trying to force top-down change of the very way in which people conduct their lives, which will naturally result in resistance at best or a counter-movement at worst. They should be going bottom-up and trying to help people understand how they feel, in the hopes that they will change on their own, not through some top-down administrative action.
Yeah. The witch hunt against people like the Yale dean also obfuscates and confuses the point that these problems are societal rather than individual.
 
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I'm sorry, do you think you know what you're talking about because you study philosophy?

No, I think I know what I'm talking about because I went to a liberal arts college and thus have experienced lots of social justice arguments and because I happen to be good at philosophy and thus can identify good arguments . . .

In your privileged world, you claim to know the motives of and feelings of those who were born in a system set against them? The way that you are speaking, I can tell you are not of African descent. In which case, you have no right to criticize their feelings.

This is a bull**** argument that SJ types put forward all the time. This idea that nobody can criticize people's feelings or experiences. That's not how debate and politics work. Of course people have a right to feel however they want about things, but they are not entitled to hide behind this to avoid criticism when conflating their phenomenological descriptions with factual representation of an external reality.

People have all sorts of experiences. While these experiences are real in the sense that they are really having them, they are not necessarily real in the sense of representing an external truth. A clear example of this is a person tripping on LSD. Such a person may see the person standing next to them as a green woman when it is actually a white man. Their experience is real in the sense that they are really having that experience but it does not reflect an objective reality. People are frequently deceived by their perspective. In this case, the deceiving perspective is the perspective of a high person.

I've met a bunch of Jewish people who would be quick to call people antisemitic for things that were said in good faith. They did this because they were hypersensitive about the issue. Their Jewish perspective clouded their ability to see how antisemitism was not really all around them.

This is not an infrequent phenomenon in cultures of people who were historically discriminated against even if the level of current discrimination is far less/virtually nonexistent compared to what it used to be. People in these cultures are primed through teaching, family, and culture to be vigilant for cases of discrimination. They may then have experiences of discrimination that are disproportionate to objective reality.

"Social justice warfare has nothing to do with solving real problems." <-- this is completely stupid. it has everything to do with solving real problems.

No it doesn't. SJWs are largely not people from the "disenfranchised" groups they claim to champion. Typically they are college aged white females who feel a bunch of white guilt and want to escape the feeling that they are terrible people for living a life of privilege. Their solution to this is to be very vocal about how educated white people like themselves are terrible and oppressive and need to come to see the light. They also cling outrageously hard to any quasi-minority status they may have (being gay, being a woman, etc.) and trump up issues to make it seem like they are victims and thus not part of the powerful people they claim to despise.

It's about identity, not social improvement. This is obvious to anyone who has a good sense of how people tend to operate and come to adopt activist politics. People—young people especially—love to be part of a movement. Most of the time, what the movement is actually for is secondary.

Med schools with only one demographic of professors is in no way providing a multifaceted experience. It's all completely one-sided. In a nation where the growing trend is that whites will no longer be the majority in a few years (with PoC numbers, primarily hispanic, so greatly increasing) I would think more people would find it important to have better-rounded doctors that can identify and best treat PoC.

The point of medical school is to ensure the medical competence of its graduates, not to provide a "multifaceted experience."

Contrary to the anti-intellectuals who try to make it seem like doctors are emotionless, unempathic, science robots, clinical medicine itself does a great job of fostering these qualities in doctors. Most doctors I have met do actually care deeply about patients. They just also happen to be smart and medically competent. The idea that doctors don't care about patients and their social situation or something is simply a made-up issue.

This type of empathy is fostered by interacting with patients and getting to know them. It is not fostered by sitting in class with a bunch of black medical students with sub-par performance who got in on affirmative action.

To me, becoming a doctor is more than just healing through prescriptions. It's about being able to identify with your patient, to comfort them during their most trying times. This ranges from those who have all the money in the world to the parts of our population living in poverty. I honestly expected more sensitivity

It's about both. Empathy for people's situations is important, but being medically competent is also critical. The vast majority of doctors I have met are both good, empathic people and medically competent. Again, this is not an actual issue with the way medicine is taught.
 
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No, I think I know what I'm talking about because I went to a liberal arts college and thus have experienced lots of social justice arguments and because I happen to be good at philosophy and thus can identify good arguments . . .



This is a bull**** argument that SJ types put forward all the time. This idea that nobody can criticize people's feelings or experiences. That's not how debate and politics work. Of course people have a right to feel however they want about things, but they are not entitled to hide behind this to avoid criticism when conflating their phenomenological descriptions with factual representation of an external reality.

People have all sorts of experiences. While these experiences are real in the sense that they are really having them, they are not necessarily real in the sense of representing an external truth. A clear example of this is a person tripping on LSD. Such a person may see the person standing next to them as a green woman when it is actually a white man. Their experience is real in the sense that they are really having that experience but it does not reflect an objective reality. People are frequently deceived by their perspective. In this case, the deceiving perspective is the perspective of a high person.

I've met a bunch of Jewish people who would be quick to call people antisemitic for things that were said in good faith. They did this because they were hypersensitive about the issue. Their Jewish perspective clouded their ability to see how antisemitism was not really all around them.

This is not an infrequent phenomenon in cultures of people who were historically discriminated against even if the level of current discrimination is far less/virtually nonexistent compared to what it used to be. People in these cultures are primed through teaching, family, and culture to be vigilant for cases of discrimination. They may then have experiences of discrimination that are disproportionate to objective reality.



No it doesn't. SJWs are largely not people from the "disenfranchised" groups they claim to champion. Typically they are college aged white females who feel a bunch of white guilt and want to escape the feeling that they are terrible people for living a life of privilege. Their solution to this is to be very vocal about how educated white people like themselves are terrible and oppressive and need to come to see the light. They also cling outrageously hard to any quasi-minority status they may have (being gay, being a woman, etc.) and trump up issues to make it seem like they are victims and thus not part of the powerful people they claim to despise.

It's about identity, not social improvement. This is obvious to anyone who has a good sense of how people tend to operate and come to adopt activist politics. People—young people especially—love to be part of a movement. Most of the time, what the movement is actually for is secondary.



The point of medical school is to ensure the medical competence of its graduates, not to provide a "multifaceted experience."

Contrary to the anti-intellectuals who try to make it seem like doctors are emotionless, unempathic, science robots, clinical medicine itself does a great job of fostering these qualities in doctors. Most doctors I have met do actually care deeply about patients. They just also happen to be smart and medically competent. The idea that doctors don't care about patients and their social situation or something is simply a made-up issue.

This type of empathy is fostered by interacting with patients and getting to know them. It is not fostered by sitting in class with a bunch of black medical students with sub-par performance who got in on affirmative action.



It's about both. Empathy for people's situations is important, but being medically competent is also critical. The vast majority of doctors I have met are both good, empathic people and medically competent. Again, this is not an actual issue with the way medicine is taught.

Once you experience racism you start to look out for it. Like a test for a disease in medicine your detection of racism has some sensitivity and specificity. That's why I believe in **increasing the pool** of talented premeds, including black females and especially black males who are right now underrepresented. When you are increasing the pool of talented applicants by supporting at early stages you will not need affirmative action.
 
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No, I think I know what I'm talking about because I went to a liberal arts college and thus have experienced lots of social justice arguments and because I happen to be good at philosophy and thus can identify good arguments . . .



This is a bull**** argument that SJ types put forward all the time. This idea that nobody can criticize people's feelings or experiences. That's not how debate and politics work. Of course people have a right to feel however they want about things, but they are not entitled to hide behind this to avoid criticism when conflating their phenomenological descriptions with factual representation of an external reality.

People have all sorts of experiences. While these experiences are real in the sense that they are really having them, they are not necessarily real in the sense of representing an external truth. A clear example of this is a person tripping on LSD. Such a person may see the person standing next to them as a green woman when it is actually a white man. Their experience is real in the sense that they are really having that experience but it does not reflect an objective reality. People are frequently deceived by their perspective. In this case, the deceiving perspective is the perspective of a high person.

I've met a bunch of Jewish people who would be quick to call people antisemitic for things that were said in good faith. They did this because they were hypersensitive about the issue. Their Jewish perspective clouded their ability to see how antisemitism was not really all around them.

This is not an infrequent phenomenon in cultures of people who were historically discriminated against even if the level of current discrimination is far less/virtually nonexistent compared to what it used to be. People in these cultures are primed through teaching, family, and culture to be vigilant for cases of discrimination. They may then have experiences of discrimination that are disproportionate to objective reality.



No it doesn't. SJWs are largely not people from the "disenfranchised" groups they claim to champion. Typically they are college aged white females who feel a bunch of white guilt and want to escape the feeling that they are terrible people for living a life of privilege. Their solution to this is to be very vocal about how educated white people like themselves are terrible and oppressive and need to come to see the light. They also cling outrageously hard to any quasi-minority status they may have (being gay, being a woman, etc.) and trump up issues to make it seem like they are victims and thus not part of the powerful people they claim to despise.

It's about identity, not social improvement. This is obvious to anyone who has a good sense of how people tend to operate and come to adopt activist politics. People—young people especially—love to be part of a movement. Most of the time, what the movement is actually for is secondary.



The point of medical school is to ensure the medical competence of its graduates, not to provide a "multifaceted experience."

Contrary to the anti-intellectuals who try to make it seem like doctors are emotionless, unempathic, science robots, clinical medicine itself does a great job of fostering these qualities in doctors. Most doctors I have met do actually care deeply about patients. They just also happen to be smart and medically competent. The idea that doctors don't care about patients and their social situation or something is simply a made-up issue.

This type of empathy is fostered by interacting with patients and getting to know them. It is not fostered by sitting in class with a bunch of black medical students with sub-par performance who got in on affirmative action.



It's about both. Empathy for people's situations is important, but being medically competent is also critical. The vast majority of doctors I have met are both good, empathic people and medically competent. Again, this is not an actual issue with the way medicine is taught.

Sloop gets it.
 
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And I'm surprised you didn't mention the forced sterilization of 'imbeciles' and the 'feebleminded' from the earlier part of the Century and that some states had these laws on the books until the early 70s. There is a lot which this thread hasn't talked about...because it's about Yale.

Some of the things you mention are cold hard fact and others are up for debate. Similarly, you are talking about healthcare disparities which is an established issue. This thread is talking about a specific medical school.

The problem with some of the people posting in here is accepting that not everything said in the name of social justice is a forgone conclusion.
I cited those specific examples because they were mentioned a few pages ago, one of the posters here made a comment that seemed willfully ignorant of the racist portions of medical history in the United States. And you're certainly right, not everything said in the name of social justice is a forgone conclusion. At the same time, a massive portion is, and this is oft-ignored by medical students and doctors alike. Medicine never has, and never will exist in a vacuum, and an understanding of the reasons behind the push for diversity, and push for at least a basic understanding of social justice in relation to medicine, is important.
 
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There are few things more abhorrent in modern society than the legalized discrimination known as affirmative action. It leaves whites/males worse off by barring them from opportunities for which they qualify. It leaves minorities/women worse off because everybody questions whether they became physicians, dentists, etc because they actually deserved it or simply because of their skin color/gender.
AA, and all of this other conversation that has been vibrant as of late, reduces us all to mere skin colors and genders. It strips us of our personalities, achievements, and character.
There is no sure fire answer to the race question, but AA and the current conversation most definitely is NOT it!

Pre-K, elementary, middle, and high school funding that is equal across the entire country and not based on property values of the surrounding area, qualified teachers dispersed equally throughout the schools in these districts, continued training to combat education issues mandatory for all teachers in the United States, more robust summer school and after-school programs, especially those in poorer areas, a national standard for regular/honors/AP classes in all schools, an increase in arts and music programs in school, and an early-college connection for all schools within 25 miles of a college/university. This would solve a fairly sized chunk of the education disparity.
Affirmative Action based on parent's income and special circumstances would work too.
 
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I think it's important to remember as someone mentioned earlier that AA is also due to the fact that applicants who have black sounding names will be rated as being less competent with the same credentials
 
Also I was actually serious about poor black students having really poor early childhood education experiences so I mean I think funding and teaching skills should be targeted to schools in poor black neighborhoods. White children are often excluded from these failing schools because they have ability to move to different neighborhood with better school.
 
What are you talking about slavery reparations? (Side note, we never actually got reparations from the American government but jewish people from the holocaust did) doing philanthropic work for my own community to better it is "slavery reparations"?
"I believe I don't know anyone with slavery money" I'm not even going to get into that, because it's going to get even more off topic

Pro Tip: don't try to say "the people in the holocaust had it better". Not the best way to prove your point...

*The American government didn't give reparations for the Holocaust either, Germany did.
 
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Pre-K, elementary, middle, and high school funding that is equal across the entire country and not based on property values of the surrounding area

How about based on buying power? Funding in Manhattan should be different then rural Kansas since the same salary would either leave a NYC teacher poor or a KS teacher pretty well off.

qualified teachers dispersed equally throughout the schools in these districts

Yeah, that won't work. Its a nice idea, but lots of the good teachers want to teach the smart kids near their homes. If you force them to either drive 45 minutes to a far-flung school or force them to teach a lower-level subject, they will quit. Then no one benefits.

continued training to combat education issues mandatory for all teachers in the United States

I'm not sure what you mean here. Examples?

more robust summer school and after-school programs, especially those in poorer areas

I'm OK with that

a national standard for regular/honors/AP classes in all schools

The problem with that, is its pretty wasteful. If your senior class has 100 students, its just not feasible to have the exact same class offerings as a school with a senior class of 1200.

an increase in arts and music programs in school

Sure

and an early-college connection for all schools within 25 miles of a college/university. This would solve a fairly sized chunk of the education disparity.
Affirmative Action based on parent's income and special circumstances would work too.

That's becoming more and more popular, especially with local tech/community colleges. I think it will happen organically (because it is), just needs more time.
 
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Also I was actually serious about poor black students having really poor early childhood education experiences so I mean I think funding and teaching skills should be targeted to schools in poor black neighborhoods. White children are often excluded from these failing schools because they have ability to move to different neighborhood with better school.
That's a problem that is rooted in the fact that we use state and local taxes to fund schools, rather than having a national model of primary and secondary education. There's good and bad to this, but from an equality perspective it's just plain bad. It is also something that can't really be changed, as education at that level is not something the federal government is allowed to provide. They can subsidize, but they cannot provide anything more than that.
 
How about based on buying power? Funding in Manhattan should be different then rural Kansas since the same salary would either leave a NYC teacher poor or a KS teacher pretty well off.



Yeah, that won't work. Its a nice idea, but lots of the good teachers want to teach the smart kids near their homes. If you force them to either drive 45 minutes to a far-flung school or force them to teach a lower-level subject, they will quit. Then no one benefits.



I'm not sure what you mean here. Examples?



I'm OK with that



The problem with that, is its pretty wasteful. If your senior class has 100 students, its just not feasible to have the exact same class offerings as a school with a senior class of 1200.



Sure



That's becoming more and more popular, especially with local tech/community colleges. I think it will happen organically (because it is), just needs more time.

Nice be careful though they have a Manhattan in Kansas
 
Pre-K, elementary, middle, and high school funding that is equal across the entire country and not based on property values of the surrounding area, qualified teachers dispersed equally throughout the schools in these districts, continued training to combat education issues mandatory for all teachers in the United States, more robust summer school and after-school programs, especially those in poorer areas, a national standard for regular/honors/AP classes in all schools, an increase in arts and music programs in school, and an early-college connection for all schools within 25 miles of a college/university. This would solve a fairly sized chunk of the education disparity.
Affirmative Action based on parent's income and special circumstances would work too.
All of this is essentially impossible to do in a country that is not communist or heavily socialist, as the teachers would have to work for the federal government in a completely nationalized system and all schools would have to fall under a nationalized system for that to be possible. There's also a whole lot of negative stuff and unintended consequences your plans would have, particularly for inner city areas. And then there's the funding problems...

How old are you? This sounds like the sort of plan that someone in the 18-22 demo would come up with, prior to being exposed to the reality of government and taxation that make such things impossible. And I don't mean that to come off as insulting- it's something that like, everybody goes through.
 
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I think it's important to remember as someone mentioned earlier that AA is also due to the fact that applicants who have black sounding names will be rated as being less competent with the same credentials

That is not at all even remotely why we have AA in med school. Medical school AA is because URM physicians tend to return and practice in their community. Many black/Hispanic/Native American communities are very healthcare underserved and AA is an attempt to fix that.

Why have we left the original discussion on Yale? It seems like everyone is so hasty to scream "Racist!" Or "Millennial!" That we lost sight of the original topic: do med students deserve to be protected from microaggressions and feelings of exclusion?

I personally do not think they do, because it is counterproductive to the purpose of medical education. Does anyone care to respond?
 
That is not at all even remotely why we have AA in med school. Medical school AA is because URM physicians tend to return and practice in their community. Many black/Hispanic/Native American communities are very healthcare underserved and AA is an attempt to fix that.

Why have we left the original discussion on Yale? It seems like everyone is so hasty to scream "Racist!" Or "Millennial!" That we lost sight of the original topic: do med students deserve to be protected from microaggressions and feelings of exclusion?

I personally do not think they do, because it is counterproductive to the purpose of medical education. Does anyone care to respond?
It became a URM discussion because the answer to that was no from the start, that's not even a discussion, that's just a statement and move on sort of thing.
 
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All of this is essentially impossible to do in a country that is not communist or heavily socialist, as the teachers would have to work for the federal government in a completely nationalized system and all schools would have to fall under a nationalized system for that to be possible. There's also a whole lot of negative stuff and unintended consequences your plans would have, particularly for inner city areas. And then there's the funding problems...

How old are you? This sounds like the sort of plan that someone in the 18-22 demo would come up with, prior to being exposed to the reality of government and taxation that make such things impossible. And I don't mean that to come off as insulting- it's something that like, everybody goes through.

Nordic capitalism
 
That is not at all even remotely why we have AA in med school. Medical school AA is because URM physicians tend to return and practice in their community. Many black/Hispanic/Native American communities are very healthcare underserved and AA is an attempt to fix that.

Why have we left the original discussion on Yale? It seems like everyone is so hasty to scream "Racist!" Or "Millennial!" That we lost sight of the original topic: do med students deserve to be protected from microaggressions and feelings of exclusion?

I personally do not think they do, because it is counterproductive to the purpose of medical education. Does anyone care to respond?

Discrimination is in fact a reason why race statistics are reported, I believe. I'm glad you remind us of this though because we have a black premed here who is passionate about helping the underserved.
 
Pro Tip: don't try to say "the people in the holocaust had it better". Not the best way to prove your point...

*The American government didn't give reparations for the Holocaust either, Germany did.
I never said people of the holocaust had it better. You can't compare atrocities, you can only compare peoples' reactions to them.
 
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Nordic capitalism
Which works because they have highly homogenous societies with unified goals and aspirations, as well as Jante law and a bunch of other societal norms that don't apply to a diverse, populous, and disparate country like the United States. They sacrifice opportunity for equality, income for time off, and much more because, as a society, they largely agree that that is the best thing to do by a vast majority. The US has far too many competing groups and interests for that to ever be a large majority consensus. I knew some guys from Finland that hated the place- it was impossible to get ahead, you couldn't work overtime past a certain number of hours for the year, you'd get forced on vacation to keep you under your yearly cap whether you wanted to keep working or wanted more money or not. No one is expected to have any pretense of being better than anyone else, and if you happen to stand out too much (making too much money, having too nice of things), you basically have to be self-depricating or it leads to social ostracization. You want the Nordic life, move to a Nordic country. This is America, where we sacrifice some of that good 'ol equality for better opportunities for those that succeed, and that just ain't going to change any time soon.
 
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I never said pepole of the holocaust had it better. You can't compare atrocities, you can only compare peoples' reactions to them.
I think paying reparations because your father's father's father's father was a slave is pretty stupid, myself. Especially when slavery was carried out by individuals and not the government, and the vast majority of Americans were not involved in the slave trade in any way.
 
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I think paying reparations because your father's father's father's father was a slave is pretty stupid, myself. Especially when slavery was carried out by individuals and not the government, and the vast majority of Americans were not involved in the slave trade in any way.

It's not just slavery it's the money that went to reconstructing the south post civil war and biased laws and segregated neighborhoods that still exist today
 
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It's not just slavery it's the money that went to reconstructing the south post civil war and biased laws and segregated neighborhoods that still exist today
Every single person that was involved in the civil war, as well as almost all of their children, are dead. And the discriminatory laws of a few Southern states weren't passed by the federal government, thus the federal government is at no obligation to pay reparations. Why anyone who was never a slave, who is the child of someone that was never a slave, who themselves was the child of someone who was never a slave, feels entitled to money to repay them for slavery is beyond me.
 
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Every single person that was involved in the civil war, as well as almost all of their children, are dead. And the discriminatory laws of a few Southern states weren't passed by the federal government, thus the federal government is at no obligation to pay reparations. Why anyone who was never a slave, who is the child of someone that was never a slave, who themselves was the child of someone who was never a slave, feels entitled to money to repay them for slavery is beyond me.
Reparations were actually promised to slaves, and they never received them.
 
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Reparations were actually promised to slaves, and they never received them.
And that is the current generation's problem... How? And it would solve exactly... What? Also, whom promised them reparations?

Since you're taking a bit to respond- Congress passed a bill to offer land to slaves. Bills aren't promises, they're laws. Laws can be rescinded, as this one was. Just like we could remove Medicare or Social Security tomorrow without being obligated to pay any reparations, this law was undone. Now, the people who were directly affected by this law are dead. Their children are mostly, again, dead. Even many of their grandchildren are dead. paying money to the grandchildren and great grandchildren and great-great grandchildren of people that participated in an unfair system, to the tune of likely billions to trillions of dollars, isn't exactly tenable by any measure, nor is it particularly just to be taking money from people that had no involvement in the system of slavery and giving it to people that can't even remember a relative that participated in that system.
 
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Every single person that was involved in the civil war, as well as almost all of their children, are dead. And the discriminatory laws of a few Southern states weren't passed by the federal government, thus the federal government is at no obligation to pay reparations. Why anyone who was never a slave, who is the child of someone that was never a slave, who themselves was the child of someone who was never a slave, feels entitled to money to repay them for slavery is beyond me.

And that is the current generation's problem... How? And it would solve exactly... What? Also, whom promised them reparations?

For why it's the current generation's problem check out this book When Affirmative Action Was White An Untold History of Racial Inequality in Twentieth Century America By Ira Katznelson https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/88367.When_Affirmative_Action_Was_White?ac=1&from_search=1

It's still a problem because capitalist wealth is passed through families through real estate and investment which changes your likelihood of success
 
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For why it's the current generation's problem check out this book When Affirmative Action Was White An Untold History of Racial Inequality in Twentieth Century America By Ira Katznelson https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/88367.When_Affirmative_Action_Was_White?ac=1&from_search=1

It's still a problem because capitalist wealth is passed through families through real estate and investment which changes your likelihood of success
And that's fine. Once you have money, if you do well in life, do you want your children to not benefit? If you build substantial wealth and land holdings, do you think it's fair to just have to give them up rather than pass them on to your children so that they can live a better life than you did? That's the ****ing American dream, to give your children a better life than you had. To say that it's unjust is against what most Americans would view as a core principle of American values. Hell, most immigrants that come to this country work their asses off, specifically so that they can pay to send their kids to professional school and give them a wealthy, prosperous life that they never could back home. They literally sacrifice their entire working life for their children, and you have no right to say that is wrong to do.
 
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The problem with national standards for education is that it severely erodes teacher autonomy, and teachers don't like that any more than physicians do.
 
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