WTF...over?

[mac61]

Forgive me for not having/divulging all of the details, but I ran into a recently graduated Army intern who may have gotten the shaft like no other, and I'm curious if it's really possible and/or how often it happens (in the Army):

I was under the impression that this prior-service officer, graduated at the top of his class, super-squared away new medical officer was a lock for his career in a competative specialty when he was selected for his residency of choice last December. I was shocked to see him in the halls of a MEDCEN some 1500 miles from where he was supposed to be transitioning into the CONTINUOUS CONTRACT residency he was selected for.

I asked him what he was doing there, and he told me he was doing a transitional year at said MEDCEN. I asked him what happened to the residency he was selected for and his reply was:

"I guess the Army had a different plan. Now I'm in a transitional year, probably headed for a GMO."

We were both in a hurry and I didn't want to pour salt in the wound, so I didn't push the issue.

This guy literally did EVERYTHING right: Unbelievable (literally) grades, crazy boards, impeccable character and career, even got selected for his residency of choice!!

Is it possible that the Army can change thier mind and send you to a different program and specialty AFTER the selection board?

(I understand the process of re-applying for PGY-2, I'm pretty sure this is different.)

Has anyone heard of this happening?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Ummm...yes. Sometimes its better to be lucky than good.

 

[kwick release]

Probably pissed off some butch clip board carrying full bird nurse.

 

[Mirror Form]

Yep, there's always a number of good med students that get royally screwed over each year.

 

[haujun]

Forgive me for not having/divulging all of the details, but I ran into a recently graduated Army intern who may have gotten the shaft like no other, and I'm curious if it's really possible and/or how often it happens (in the Army):

I was under the impression that this prior-service officer, graduated at the top of his class, super-squared away new medical officer was a lock for his career in a competative specialty when he was selected for his residency of choice last December. I was shocked to see him in the halls of a MEDCEN some 1500 miles from where he was supposed to be transitioning into the CONTINUOUS CONTRACT residency he was selected for.

I asked him what he was doing there, and he told me he was doing a transitional year at said MEDCEN. I asked him what happened to the residency he was selected for and his reply was:

"I guess the Army had a different plan. Now I'm in a transitional year, probably headed for a GMO."

We were both in a hurry and I didn't want to pour salt in the wound, so I didn't push the issue.

This guy literally did EVERYTHING right: Unbelievable (literally) grades, crazy boards, impeccable character and career, even got selected for his residency of choice!!

Is it possible that the Army can change thier mind and send you to a different program and specialty AFTER the selection board?

(I understand the process of re-applying for PGY-2, I'm pretty sure this is different.)

Has anyone heard of this happening?

Anything is possible. Is it possible that you may not really know him, grades, board scores, selected residency. Do your best in your medical school and it will all work out. good luck.

 

[IgD]

Never heard of this happening. It definitely needs to be validated. If its true its a shame.

When I was on active duty there was an Iraq veteran co-worker who was a career military guy who won an award for Environment Health Officer of the year. He was slapped in the face when a more junior guy who had never been on a deployment got selected for a doctorate program and he didn't. He was so mad he wrote a 2 page resignation letter saying how his trust had been violated and is now leaving the service as fast as possible.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

A lot of the pre-med and med student "cheerleaders" often make the false assumption that only bad medical students get screwed over in the match. This case is a good example of how that isn't necessarily true.

 

[psychbender]

A lot of the pre-med and med student "cheerleaders" often make the false assumption that only bad medical students get screwed over in the match. This case is a good example of how that isn't necessarily true.

Except that this doesn't sound like someone getting screwed in the match. Rather, from what mac61 is saying, it seems as though this person did well in the match, then the Army later reneged on its deal, and gave this person a transitional internship, instead. Something sounds a little fishy about this business.

One thing that didn't seem quite clear to me from the initial description, was did he matched as a med student last year (PGY-1 now), or did he complete PGY-1, was supposed to start his PGY-2 year in his 'competitive specialty' this year, but is now repeating PGY-1 as a transitional intern? The

I was shocked to see him in the halls of a MEDCEN some 1500 miles from where he was supposed to be transitioning into the CONTINUOUS CONTRACT residency he was selected for.

part makes me think the later. If so, maybe he royally screwed up (or pissed someone off) as an intern, was understandably dropped from his program, and is having to repeat his PGY-1 year.

Regardless, that really sucks for him.

 

[a1qwerty55]

This guy literally did EVERYTHING right: Unbelievable (literally) grades, crazy boards, impeccable character and career, even got selected for his residency of choice!!

None of the above matter at all if you do poorly during your internship. What none of us know from this "report" is how he performed during his internship. Your performance after medical school when in training far trumps what you have done during medical school. Few Interns who get canned have any insight into the why it happened. I usually gets chalked up to "The Army screwed me", rather than I performed poorly, had an honor violation etc.

Is it possible that the Army can change thier mind and send you to a different program and specialty AFTER the selection board?

Yes - some guys look great on paper, but can't perform - why would you take them into the PGY-2 year if they aren't making the grade and others can?

I don't know anything about this case, but be very skeptical of the "I got screwed excuse". There usually is much more to the story.

 

[mac61]

I understand that not doing well in PGY-1 is a reason not to continue to PGY-2.

I was not clear when I said "Transitioning into his continuous contract residency". This guy just graduated and is in his PGY-1 year at a different location, and a different specialty that the one for which he matched last December.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I understand that not doing well in PGY-1 is a reason not to continue to PGY-2.

I was not clear when I said "Transitioning into his continuous contract residency". This guy just graduated and is in his PGY-1 year at a different location, and a different specialty that the one for which he matched last December.

If that isn't "screwed in the match" I don't know what is. How do you defend that? You can't.

 

[IgD]

Few Interns who get canned have any insight into the why it happened. I usually gets chalked up to "The Army screwed me", rather than I performed poorly, had an honor violation etc.

To me that's poor leadership. If an intern is struggling to the point where adverse action will be taken, someone ought to have sat down with them and counseled them about it. Even if they disagree with the rationale they ought to have an explanation. How else can they correct their behavior?

 

[orbitsurgMD]

To me that's poor leadership. If an intern is struggling to the point where adverse action will be taken, someone ought to have sat down with them and counseled them about it. Even if they disagree with the rationale they ought to have an explanation. How else can they correct their behavior?

Usually the services are careful about this sort of thing. I knew one intern in my class who was made to repeat a month--he was finishing in July not June--so that he could repeat a month on service.

There are due-process requirements that have to be met before canning a house officer, even in the military: fair hearings, right to examine evidence and present witnesses, rights of appeal and other procedures that have to be followed. Not doing that can result in legal action against the services for damage done to a professional career, particularly if anything done results in reporting to the National Practitioner Data Bank.

Generally there has to be documentation of deficiencies, of counseling, monitoring as part of the process. Usually there is a requirement for psychological and/or psychiatric evaluation as a component of this process.

Removing a previously-selected medical student from a internship/residency prior to starting the internship begs some other explanation.

 

[IgD]

I get worked up about it too without knowing all the facts. I remember what it was like being an intern and discovering I had 10 classmates but there were only 5 PGY2 residency positions I had decided I would do a GMO tour and be flexible about it and a different opportunity arose.

It's interesting working at a civilian academic center. So far, the department refers to the interns as "PGY1s" and really considers them part of the program instead of transients passing through. I'll keep you posted as my adventure continues. I can see good and bad points for both systems.

 

[Gastrapathy]

You do recognize that nobody, including the OP, knows a thing about this situation?

Bingo.