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I am interested in working in europe after I get my degree (england/ france/ switzerland)
can U.S. trained podiatrists work abroad?
can U.S. trained podiatrists work abroad?
I am interested in working in europe after I get my degree (england/ france/ switzerland)
can U.S. trained podiatrists work abroad?
British podiatrists are NOT doctorate level programs in the United Kingdom. it is an allied health degree.
It is also an allied health degree in the US, as is dentistry, optometry, chiropractic, physical therapy (all also 4 year "doctoral" programs). Just because your degree has the word "doctor" doesn't mean you are a the same thing as an MD/DO.
Physical therapist training in the US in the past 15 years went from a BSPT degree (4 year), to an MSPT (3 years), and then finally to a DPT (3 years). Guess what, they're still just physical therapists. A PT with a bachelor degree holds the same license and scope of practice as a DPT grad.
We are all allied health professionals... but we are not family physicians.
I don't have a problem with anything else you've said.
Podiatry and dentistry in the US are not allied health. In most states podiatrists are classified as physicians as they are by Medicare.
No one is claiming that DPMs and DDS are the same as MDs or DOs. And the word "doctor" comes from Latin "docere" meaning to teach. It was hijacked by the medical professions away from early teachers. Now people like you think you have a monopoly on the word.
well.. I'm a dentist myself. I consider myself a primary dental care provider, but I do not consider myself a primary care physician. [i.e. MD/DO who has residency training in primary care (GP/FP, internal med)]
I use the term Dr., but I would never refer to myself as a "physician". Nor would I (personally) refer to a podiatrist as a "physician".
PCP can mean one of two things.. either a Primary care Physician (MD/DO) or Primary care provider (any allied or other health care provider.. such as you and I as primary dental and podiatric care providers). If you think they are one and the same then by your definition a Nurse Practitioner can also be defined as a "Physician" as can a PA, and an optometrist, and every other health care provider almost. (which gets a bit silly really if you ask me)
However, I agree with your technical definition of the word "doctor".
Pods in America are not allied health professionals or midlevels.
I never claimed pods were PCPs, but we're not part of the allied health field. I don't even think optometry is allied health in America. In some states they are optometric physicians. Like LCR posted, we are considered physicians in most states. Our breadth of training is greater than NP's and PA's, who are considered mid-levels in America. A couple differences: A. Pods have full prescribing power in the United States. NP's and PA's do not, and I don't think that pods do in England. B. We need NO other physician supervision. I don't think pods in England do either, but PA's do and in most states NP's do as well.
Not to mention the fact that we are surgeons and hold surgical privileges at hospitals, as well as are members of medical staff (and yes, even chief medical officers).
Dentists equally require no supervision, have hospital priviledges, surgical training, and full prescribing rights.. and I still would never refer to myself as a "physician".
Dentists equally require no supervision, have hospital priviledges, surgical training, and full prescribing rights.. and I still would never refer to myself as a "physician".
Why is being able to use the term to define yourself so important? What does it mean to you?
So many different types of health care providers in the US these days are using the term "physician" to refer to themselves.. Its just interesting.
Has the definition of the term changed in our country to mean any kind of health care provider with a "doctorate" and prescribing rights?
If you go to the UK you will find there is a very different definition of the term. Even if you graduate from medical school you may not refer to yourself as a physician unless you have completed "physician training" (internal medicine residency).
With all due respect, this is not the UK. This is the USA. If the majority of the states and Medicare consider a podiatrist a physician than it is so. Its not that the term is so important but please consider the fact that in other countries DOs are not considered physicians either. However, in the US they are legally the same thing as an MD. Are you arguing that osteopaths are not physicians?
Wait, are you talking about dentists or OMFS? Correct me if I'm wrong but most dentists don't go to hospitals. Concerning surgical training, are you talking about office procedures or actual OR procedures? I mean, are we talking root canals and tooth extractions or complex oral maxillofacial recon? I say that because I think it is probably more accurate to compare todays podiatrist with oral maxillofacial surgeons and not dentists. I guess I've always been under the impression that many dentists do no residency training after school. Am I way off? I'd appreciate your input.
You wouldn't find many pods going around calling themselves "physician" either.
Podiatrists advertise as podiatric physicians or podiatric surgeons.
It is an important issue for current podiatrists/students for a couple of reasons.
1. We use the term "physician" for reimbursement purposes through government-funded programs.
2. Our education is very close, though not exactly identical, to allopathic education in America. It's part of our parity outlook, Vision 2015, to be seen on an equal playing field with our M.D. and D.O. counterparts.
Personally, I don't care to ever use "physician." Surgeons are so much cooler and there is no way to debate whether we are surgeons or not.
"As a podiatric medical student, you will become a physician first and a podiatrist second.
In essence, you will be the physician and surgeon of the foot and ankle."
Taken directly from the WesterU website: http://http://prospective.westernu.edu/podiatry/welcome.html
Well...where I'm from, when I open the phonebook. "Podiatrist" is found under the "Physicians-Surgeons" section. Medicare/Medicaid considers a podiatrist a physician. This may not be the case for Dentists, Optometrists, and Chiropractors; but a podiatrist is in fact a physician by law(in most states). There is more to life than just MD/DO...They do not have a copyright on the word "physician".
Yes, you will in a general way be a physician and surgeon (ie. a diagnostician and provide surgical treatment of foot and ankle problems. But you are not a "general physician". The term "Physician" when not preceded by an adjective that defines your specific scope of "podiatry" is misleading as it infers you are an MD/DO "general physician".
For example.. I can say that I am an oral/dental physician and surgeon but I can not go around saying I am a physician.
Make sense?
Nobody said that a podiatrist is a "general physician". That is ridiculous. Podiatrists work on feet. A podiatrist is a physician of the lower extremity, that's it, point blank. When I graduate, I plan on working in Alabama (one of MANY states that define a podiatrist as a PHYSICIAN). The point is, that depending on what state a podiatrist chooses to work in, that podiatrist is a "physician".
If you want to get technical, there is a connotative and a denotative meaning to the word physician. When you say "general physician", you are referring to the connotative or implied meaning. When I say "physician" I'm referring to the actual meaning of the word; as defined by statelaw.
A podiatrist can similarly graduate after 4 years and do "office based surgery", or they can.. just like an OMFS comlete a "residency" in podiatric surgery.
The mistake that you are making is that you are comparing a dentist to a podiatrist. They are teo seperate professions. I know for a fact that in Alabama, a podiatrist can use the term "physician" without adding "podiatric" in front. Alabama is not the only state like this. I'm quoting state law. You are going by your own personal definition of what a physician is. We have to agree to disagree
I know for a fact that in Alabama, a podiatrist can use the term "physician" without adding "podiatric" in front.
is this true? i was under the impression that podiatrists currently must complete a 2 or 3 year residency just to practice at all.
Podiatrist not a physician???lol...yeah right. Try telling that to a diabetic
Though a dentist is not a medical doctor in the traditional sense, it is still quite appropriate to call ones dentist by the title Dr., when speaking to or of them. Some dentists prefer the title Dr., while others work on a first name basis with their patients. It is not appropriate to refer to a dentist as Mr., Mrs., or Ms., since training has resulted in a doctorate.
Some dentists do work in hospitals.
General dentistry is still defined as "surgery", and even general dentists are allowed to do surgical extractions and incise and drain dental abscesses, etc.
A podiatrist can similarly graduate after 4 years and do "office based surgery", or they can.. just like an OMFS comlete a "residency" in podiatric surgery.
I don't see much difference.
Ok, I see what you are saying. But it should be noted that all pods must do a surgical residency. The minimal a person can do is two years but the majority do a three year surgical residency. These are not office based procedures but surgeries performed in hospitals and surgery centers ranging from bunions and hammertoes to ankle fractures and calcaneal fractures.
I reviewed your links. They are very informative. However, they address how physicians choose to advertise themselves. Going back to one of my original points, MDs and DOs are legally considered physicians, but according to one of the links that you provided, a DO has to call himself an "osteopathic physician".
"(6) In the case of a person licensed to practice medicine by the Board of Medical Examiners for the
State of Oregon who holds the degree of Doctor of Osteopathy, or the equivalent, the word "osteopath" or
the words "osteopathic physician" or "osteopathic physician and surgeon."
http://www.oregon.gov/OMB/MD-DO_Appl...DrTitleLaw.pdf
So, according you, a DO isnt a "general physician" by your standards???
It's really splitting hairs....
We've split so many hairs that I think I'm going bald.lol. At the end of the day, I would say that it is safe to say that each states has different laws regarding the title of physician which can become confusing and redundant. However, it is safe to refer to a podiatrist as a "podiatric physician" to be specific and avoid confusion.
1. So the term is only used (not because you are an MD/DO) but so that you can claim money from Medicare.. I gotcha.
2. hmm.. . so you're saying that by 2015 Podiatrists in the US are going to be applying to do residency programs in internal medicine, anesthesia, cardiovascular surgery, plastics, and neurosurgery? or.. are you saying that you will be equal in terms of being reimbursed the same as an MD or DO by Medicare and insurance companies for practicing podiatry?
Here is what I understand about Vision 2015.
We are trying to get on par with M.D.s and D.O.s by -
Creating a uniform scope of practice for the entire country, based on states, like Florida, that allow for our entire surgical expertise to be utilized. For instance, in Florida, a pod can work on soft tissue up to the acetabulum and osseous up to the tibial tuberosity. In New York, a pod cannot perform cutting operations on the malleoli. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, gang.
Getting our programs to the point where we will be able to take the USMLE, or some other exam that is comparable to the USMLE.
Getting fair compensation for the procedures we perform. We are paid less than other surgeons for the exact same procedure.
Most pod students have no desire to fill or compete for allopathic or osteopathic residencies. Even if we did start taking the USMLE, some of us miss out on some courses that other med students take. On the other hand, other med students miss out on, really the best stuff, lower extremity anatomy.
Additionally, some schools integrate DPMs and either MDs or DOs into the same courses for the first two years. This can be used as a base to bolster the tenets of Vision 2015.
Dentists have our own version of the USMLE (NBDE) Part I, II, and III.
I think it would be better for your profession to create your own exams instead of using the USMLE. This would only add to (I feel) the the claim that DPMs want to be MDs.
Dentists have our own version of the USMLE (NBDE) Part I, II, and III.
I think it would be better for your profession to create your own exams instead of using the USMLE. This would only add to (I feel) the the claim that DPMs want to be MDs.
Yeah, DPM is Podiatric medicine school. Not medical school. So it would be silly to try and push the DPM as equivalent to MD/DO in those terms. However, I do equally agree that you should get reimbursed appropriately.
We do have our own exams.
From what I understand, the people behind Vision 2015 considered the USMLE because we can't think of the lower extremity as disconnected from the rest of the body. Obviously, much of what we do and prescribe has systemic effects. The writers of this new exam would probably emphasize the lower extremity