Work set up to "retire" from day 1

[BiscoDisco]

So this is probably a bit philosophical, but I've been thinking a lot lately. What is the purpose of life? Is it to wake up each morning and go to work, deal with all the hassles there, then come home and engage in the daily routine of chores only to repeat it day after day? Seems we generally fill our time with things we'd rather not be doing with the occasional pleasurable bits interspersed. Fwiw I'm not depressed, I enjoy living, I'm just becoming increasingly disillusioned by society.

I graduate residency next year. Thinking of condensing all my work for the year into 8 weeks. I'd probably try to pull 80-100 hour weeks and then just be done to travel, engage in hobbies, etc the rest of the year. Is this actually possible? Id be happy to go anywhere in America to maximize hourly rate. I'm hoping I could pull in at least 160k during these two months which would allow me to live the rest of the year comfortably.


Thoughts or advice on making this work?

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[painballer27]

I'm not sure, and not trying to derail but perhaps suggesting another possibility. Is it possible to take 8-12+ weeks of vaca in psychiatry as it is in fields like rads and anesthesia?

 

[BiscoDisco]

I should imagine that is possible as a locums doc. For me I want to work as little as possible to enjoy that 10 months off a year. Ideally I'd like to spend a big chunk living in a very low cost of living country then the rest back in the states visiting friends/family.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Theoretically possible with locums work, but keep in mind that with locums the job can disappear or be cut short. Now you are scrambling for something else, delaying a return, etc. it could take weeks to credential you elsewhere and get plans rearranged. Short notice may mean less pay and shorter hours which expands your work time to achieve your desired salary. It isn’t a perfect solution. Taking problems into account, I’d plan on 3 month period of work/set-backs.

Have you tried working 11-15 hour shift for weeks in a row? That will be a very intense period. No breaks for weeks would be a big no for me. Have you looked into other schedules like 7 on 7 off? Even easier to achieve would be working outpatient M-W one week and Th-Fri the next. This reduces total vacation time, but it makes “work” enjoyable for many.

Alternatively work more regular hours and outsource your chores. With tele options, you can work anywhere now.

This is all coming from someone that enjoys psych work though, so feel free to ignore my thoughts.

 

[deleted1100659]

There are a lot of high paying locums especially if you dont care where you go. You could easily target the right locums and do enough to get what you need.

I personally would love to do 30 hours a week but financially its not smart for me right now. Though I do enjoy psychiatry though, I just hate all the non psychiatry that comes with it.

 

[Merovinge]

Couple things you might find about attending life that are different than your experience now:
1) Locus of control will go up, how much depends on the job, but will undoubtedly be higher than it is in residency. True PP will make it 100%
2) Much better pay allows you to worry less about money and outsource tasks you find undesirable (e.g. cooking, cleaning, housework, laundry, etc)
3) You can setup a job where you actually matter. Your day is not sitting around trying to figure out how to cut someone's pay or put 10% less chips in a package to get your bonus. You will make a difference in many many people's lives. Of course there will be hassles, that's why it is called work, but the rewards should outweigh the hassles for most doctors.

There's nothing wrong with locuming in Alaska for 3 months a year and traveling the world the rest of the time, but I suspect you may actually get disillusioned with the nomadic lifestyle. It will be a great learning experience for you either way, but it's hard to beat meeting up with good friends on the weekend.

 

[comp1]

Don't make your life plans while you've just seen medicine as a resident or medical student... I think what you described at first is the experience of life. I'm not sure if something like purpose can really be assigned to it. Even if you're off traveling 9 months out of the year, I'm not sure that really creates purpose as in doing something with the hope of some intangible yet grand achievement. Hopefully you'll be able to find a job you like and then you won't feel as driven to limit what most people spend the majority of their waking hours doing.

 

[dl2dp2]

You are not thinking about this the right way.

Closed mindset: black and white duality: work to make money -- rest for hobbies and fun. Work vs. retirement. Making money vs. consumption.

Open mindset: there is NO duality. Find work that IS fun and use all your expertise and training, but accept that this will only happen gradually in a step-by-step way. Find hobbies that might make money. Find ways to consume that are sustainable. Identify a life that can be sustainably creative.

The type of opportunities that I am being exposed to now I didn't even know existed when I was a resident. The kind of money I can make now I dared not have dreamed as a resident. If you think nothing is impossible then you'd actually pursue something that you'd want. Identify what you enjoy about your work and magnify that and prune the parts that are not enjoyable, and you'll waste less and less time on things that trigger you.

 

[PikminOC]

You are not thinking about this the right way.

Closed mindset: black and white duality: work to make money -- rest for hobbies and fun. Work vs. retirement. Making money vs. consumption.

Open mindset: there is NO duality. Find work that IS fun and use all your expertise and training, but accept that this will only happen gradually in a step-by-step way. Find hobbies that might make money. Find ways to consume that are sustainable. Identify a life that can be sustainably creative.

The type of opportunities that I am being exposed to now I didn't even know existed when I was a resident. The kind of money I can make now I dared not have dreamed as a resident. If you think nothing is impossible then you'd actually pursue something that you'd want. Identify what you enjoy about your work and magnify that and prune the parts that are not enjoyable, and you'll waste less and less time on things that trigger you.

Pls expound on these opportunities

 

[dl2dp2]

Pls expound on these opportunities

There are too many to list. For example, the expertise I have can be very useful for financial services firms. Didn't really even know how an investment bank worked during residency.

A lot of this I learned in ways that I couldn't have possibly imagined... for example, directly from patients.

Open. Your. Mind.

 

[PikminOC]

There are too many to list. For example, the expertise I have can be very useful for financial services firms. Didn't really even know how an investment bank worked during residency.

A lot of this I learned in ways that I couldn't have possibly imagined... for example, directly from patients.

Open. Your. Mind.

I don't understand. Can't open my mind if I don't understand. Like you I have no ideas about this and no patient has told me of this.

Pls list some more. Your mind was opened by someone too.

 

[dl2dp2]

I don't understand. Can't open my mind if I don't understand. Like you I have no ideas about this and no patient has told me of this.

Pls list some more. Your mind was opened by someone too.

Pharma. Real estate. Treatment facilities. Insurance. Feds.

List people you know who are in each of these industries. Call them up and say you are interested in consulting or brainstorm for business ideas. Follow up on the leads they suggest.

It’s not that hard.

 

[painballer27]

The kind of money I can make now I dared not have dreamed as a resident.

How much?

 

[Splenda88]

My friend found a job out of residency as an IM hospitalist working 7 days on and 21 days off... I think the salary was ~160k/yr + benefits.

You might try to find something like that in psych

 

[PikminOC]

Pharma. Real estate. Treatment facilities. Insurance. Feds.

List people you know who are in each of these industries. Call them up and say you are interested in consulting or brainstorm for business ideas. Follow up on the leads they suggest.

It’s not that hard.

I have had a wealth manager ask for help. Didn't want to pay tho.

 

[brazilianpsych]

My friend found a job out of residency as an IM hospitals working 7 days on and 21 days off... I think the salary was ~160k/yr + benefits.

You might try to find something like that in psych

I was going to say that this was a terrible job but then I saw it is 7on 21 off. Interesting setup!

 

[Splenda88]

I was going to say that this was a terrible job but then I saw it is 7on 21 off. Interesting setup!

It's actually a nice gig for people who have reached financial independence.

It's not terribly difficult to find this setting in the hospital medicine (HM) world. You just need to find two docs who want to work part time.

 

[Liquid8]

On the OP's strategy, it’s an interesting idea. Had toyed with this sort of idea myself, and some of my colleagues have dome similar with locum jobs– in Australia these pay around 2k a day, so it’s certainly possible to live of 3-4 months of work a year.

Most of these jobs would tend to be in public hospitals in undesirable rural areas, and also unlikely to pay for 14 hour days, with weekly hours more likely to cap out at 40 hours a week. Aside from location, the main problem we have is meeting mandatory CPD requirements which involves 10 hours of a peer review group component, although since Covid these were being held remotely so it’s less of a burden.

What dissuaded me was that I knew that I wanted to build up a private practice, so it made more sense to work towards this while younger as it would take time. If it didn’t turn out well, I figured the locum opportunities would still be there. Some of my colleagues who went down the locum route were eventually turned off it completely, because the internal hospital politics can be fairly toxic. Then there’s the fact that the patient population in a public are harder to deal with and while the pay seems good, a lot gets taken out in taxes and mandatory superannuation (i.e. a retirement benefit fund). In someways it comes down to autonomy - in private practice we get a choice of who we see, what we charge, and it's entirely up to us if we want to make those additional superannuation contributions so funds are more easily accessible. Colleagues closer to retirement age have used the locum option to travel around the country and earn a bit of extra spending money, but they have less expenses to worry about and are probably better able to deal with local hospital level bull****.

 

[jbomba]

Seems like finding one job might be difficult to get 80 paid hours a week. But I don't think it'd be hard to do some locums 40 hours a week then maybe tele psych after hours, covering er, weekend coverage, etc to add another 30-40 hours a week.

Hell I've seen plenty of 8-10k/weekend assignments. You could do that for a few months and supplement with 10-20 hours telepsych a week.

 

[slowlysurely]

I am hoping to land in academia/research, but if I can't manage a successful K-award I had been thinking about telepsych private practice also with the intention of living in sunny, low-cost countries. Or on a catamaran. Only problem I have been able to come to is that you need to be based states-side to bill US insurance so it would need to be a cash practice.... I also have not been successful in finding back-up residency programs that are helpful in terms of PP training and/or client-building during PGY3/4. If anyone knows of any I am all ears!

 

[dl2dp2]

I am hoping to land in academia/research, but if I can't manage a successful K-award I had been thinking about telepsych private practice also with the intention of living in sunny, low-cost countries. Or on a catamaran. Only problem I have been able to come to is that you need to be based states-side to bill US insurance so it would need to be a cash practice.... I also have not been successful in finding back-up residency programs that are helpful in terms of PP training and/or client-building during PGY3/4. If anyone knows of any I am all ears!

Have you lived in a sunny low-cost country for anything beyond a week in an all-inclusive resort? Don't buy a bill of goods when you don't know what it is.

Resort countries are typically a very very bad fit for younger single people, especially a fresh MD residency graduate.

You "can't manage a successful K-award"...perhaps you should resubmit that K award again, and in the meanwhile build a private practice where you are--in other words, be a normal ambitious person who's a grown adult and can withstand bad luck with some fortitude, instead of trying to retire at 35 and escape reality and predicate major life decisions on the whims of a study section at NIH.

 

[TheRightMedication]

I offer my opinion, and my example -

As an alternative to a life of meaningless work alternating with hedonist tourism, have you considered a more traditional life? Work you enjoy, family, friends, community?

I'm less than ten years out of residency. I work about 30 hours at a community hospital per week and have a private practice on the side. I have time enough to enjoy my children, hang with my spouse, and keep up with friends and family. If I can manage my time just a bit better I can do better with church, volunteering, and fitness.

I may not retire early, but then again, I don't want to retire from a good, well ordered life. I could float by on a small private practice for semi-retirement easily enough.

Maybe I'm underestimating how much fun you can have on a boat for 40 years.

 

[G Sheb]

I moonlight around 10-11 days per month in probably the most desirable metro area in the country. Make about ~350K. About to buy my first home 1+M two years out of residency.
This was supposed to be a temporary set up until my practice gets going. It's too good in terms of hours/work that I've been delaying the practice though that's still the plan. Even in a small practice you have to attend to it daily which decreases your flexibility. Though obviously the work is more engaging. The rest of the time I fill with interests and goals that I long wanted to achieve. None of it brings me money and this isn't the goal.

If you're in psychiatry it's very hard to complain about work life balance. You can easily make upwards of 200k and leave most of your time for whatever you want. Just avoid employed positions like the plague. And know what you want to get out of life. The latter is personal. No one can answer that except you. But psychiatry definitely gives you the flexibility to forge your path.