Withdraw or Submit rank

[akaykay]

Got a dilemma,

I wanted to do a residency a month ago (after scheduling interviews and all) but now certain circumstances have come up that makes me question whether I really want to do a residency. I'm afraid that if I withdraw I will never have that option to do a residency.

Should I just withdraw from the match by tomorrow and email all the directors, or should I just wait until the match results come, and if I still don't want to do a residency, cancel the agreement. I know that will look very bad on my part, but again I have personal circumstances that may not allow me to complete a residency this academic year.

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[drugdoc]

Got a dilemma,

I wanted to do a residency a month ago (after scheduling interviews and all) but now certain circumstances have come up that makes me question whether I really want to do a residency. I'm afraid that if I withdraw I will never have that option to do a residency.

Should I just withdraw from the match by tomorrow and email all the directors, or should I just wait until the match results come, and if I still don't want to do a residency, cancel the agreement. I know that will look very bad on my part, but again I have personal circumstances that may not allow me to complete a residency this academic year.

If you get matched it is a binding contract.

 

[dingerx]

Got a dilemma,

I wanted to do a residency a month ago (after scheduling interviews and all) but now certain circumstances have come up that makes me question whether I really want to do a residency. I'm afraid that if I withdraw I will never have that option to do a residency.

Should I just withdraw from the match by tomorrow and email all the directors, or should I just wait until the match results come, and if I still don't want to do a residency, cancel the agreement. I know that will look very bad on my part, but again I have personal circumstances that may not allow me to complete a residency this academic year.

Withdrawal. This can be tracked in the future and it will look terribly bad for you if you do match and then pull out. You will be banned from any future match and the institution will talk to people. I know somebody that did this and places won't even talk to her about jobs because they know who she is by talking to people that know she matched but didn't go.

 

[ttopping]

If you get matched it is a binding contract.

Technically I don't think it is...although it pretty much is viewed like one (and should be) and is very unprofessional and unfair to programs and candidates alike if you back out.

If you aren't sure about doing a residency I say withdraw or else deal with it if you do match for the above reason.

On another note, there are plenty of people who come back and do residencies after working for a year or so. Gives you some good experience, more to talk about, shows dedication that you're coming back despite a pay cut, etc., so I wouldn't worry about it crushing your chances for the future.

 

[KARM12]

Don't go through the match if you don't intend on accepting a position. ASHP has the right to ban you from participating in the match in the future if you do so. It is part of the match agreement. It is a binding contract. They also have the right to report you to your school and this can be seen as unprofessional conduct. I don't know if they would actually do this, but it says they can in the match agreement that you signed. It is better to withdraw and face no penalty.

Let the spot go to someone who really wants it. You can go back and do residency when the time is right for you.

Withdrawing from a residency is professional suicide.

 

[akaykay]

what if your reason for withdrawing is very compelling. Should you just not rank any programs or wait and see if the situation changes say in a month.

I know this is a clear cut answer to some of you, and I feel really bad if I take someone's opportunity to go to a program they really want. But I definitely would not participate in the residency match/process next year if I back out.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Unfortunately, you have to make a decision now. Withdraw from the match and see what happens with the scramble if your situation changes. Sorry you have to make this choice, but I don't think you should submit a rank list that is not in good faith.

 

[dingerx]

Welcome to being an adult. A Pharm.D. doesn't magically make you responsible, moral or intelligent. Everybody has issues in life. I took a fellowship for $40,000 and made over $200,000 last year and now just found out my wife and I are pregnant (hoping everything will be ok on that front). That's a good reason to keep making bank, right? No, I gave the program my word and will figure it out. If your circumstance will not allow you to be a resident (which it won't if you already have doubts) then don't be one. Good luck, but don't screw other people over in the process.

 

[ttopping]

what if your reason for withdrawing is very compelling. Should you just not rank any programs or wait and see if the situation changes say in a month.

I know this is a clear cut answer to some of you, and I feel really bad if I take someone's opportunity to go to a program they really want. But I definitely would not participate in the residency match/process next year if I back out.

So what makes you want to go through it this year? Perhaps you aren't doing it for the right reasons in the first place. Not that I don't understand what you're saying, it's a stressful process, but if you really feel residency is an important part of your career path it shouldn't be thwarted just from taking a year off.

Edit: It's not just someone else you're taking the spot from. You would put the program in a really bad position of not having a spot filled in general. So you would be screwing over both parties. I don't think any of us are telling you your reason wouldn't be a good one, we don't know your circumstances. However, if you do have that doubt, I wouldn't chance it. I agree with an above poster and see what happens in the scramble, it's an extra 2ish weeks to figure it out.

 

[lorain]

seems like you got a personal situation to deal with, withdrawal is the best way to go, you got 13 days to figure it out, if your problem is solved, then go to the scramble process. if not, then move on and wait till next year

 

[KARM12]

what if your reason for withdrawing is very compelling. Should you just not rank any programs or wait and see if the situation changes say in a month.

I know this is a clear cut answer to some of you, and I feel really bad if I take someone's opportunity to go to a program they really want. But I definitely would not participate in the residency match/process next year if I back out.

The problem is you are going into this with the notion that there is a good chance you will need to withdraw from a program. Do you know how hard it will be to find a job if future employeers find this information out? You will be known as unrealiable and not trustworthy. Why not just wait until the time is right for you? If you won't go back to do a residency, then you probably really don't want to do one in the first place.

News flash: Residency is hard.

 

[akaykay]

Thank you everyone for your input.

I have decided to submit rank, and if I really need to withdraw I will take that risk even if it makes my reputation bad. But given my circumstances, I know the program will understand because I have already spoken to another program (that I haven't applied to), and they understand the situation.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Yikes. Well, I hope for your sake they do understand but I wouldn't assume that. Pharmacy is a very small world.

 

[tl11]

Welcome to being an adult. A Pharm.D. doesn't magically make you responsible, moral or intelligent. Everybody has issues in life. I took a fellowship for $40,000 and made over $200,000 last year and now just found out my wife and I are pregnant (hoping everything will be ok on that front). That's a good reason to keep making bank, right? No, I gave the program my word and will figure it out. If your circumstance will not allow you to be a resident (which it won't if you already have doubts) then don't be one. Good luck, but don't screw other people over in the process.

damn! what area of pharmacy (if any) was that in?

 

[dingerx]

damn! what area of pharmacy (if any) was that in?

Industry plus a little hospital action on the side.

 

[KARM12]

Thank you everyone for your input.

I have decided to submit rank, and if I really need to withdraw I will take that risk even if it makes my reputation bad. But given my circumstances, I know the program will understand because I have already spoken to another program (that I haven't applied to), and they understand the situation.

How do you know the programs you applied to will understand? One program that you didn't even apply to doesn't mean anything. I hope you did not apply to my program.

You made a bad choice.

 

[cycloketocaine]

Yeah, I'm a firm believer in taking care of yourself, but if this doesn't work out in your favor, you are probably screwing yourself, a program, and another residency candidate in the end. Karma's a bitch and I've seen it come back around 10 fold.

You're an adult, it's time to put on your big girl/boy panties and make grown up decisions.

 

[rx76onu]

I hope the personal stuff works out but I agree with those above. I think this was a selfish and unprofessional move. As one who did not match last year, I personally feel insulted by this attitude. I believe decisions like this (and the people who do a residency because they should not because they want to) have caused the problem with 40% of candidates not matching.

 

[Dalteparin]

I hope the personal stuff works out but I agree with those above. I think this was a selfish and unprofessional move. As one who did not match last year, I personally feel insulted by this attitude. I believe decisions like this (and the people who do a residency because they should not because they want to) have caused the problem with 40% of candidates not matching.

QFT. OP, you may have just ruined your reputation. I hope it was worth it.

 

[lorain]

Thank you everyone for your input.

I have decided to submit rank, and if I really need to withdraw I will take that risk even if it makes my reputation bad. But given my circumstances, I know the program will understand because I have already spoken to another program (that I haven't applied to), and they understand the situation.

thats a huge leap of faith. a program you didnt even apply to doesnt even matter in this case since your decision doesnt not affect them

you made a risky decision, i hope your situation works out so u can do the program if you match

 

[dingerx]

thats a huge leap of faith. a program you didnt even apply to doesnt even matter in this case since your decision doesnt not affect them

you made a risky decision, i hope your situation works out so u can do the program if you match

I honestly hope that they don't match because there are so many more deserving people with humble attitudes that the world doesn't revolve around them. As the saying goes, "**** happens! Deal with it." Again, that's what is wrong with the world. Everybody thinks that they deserve everything without account for others. You just exemplified that. I do wish you the best; just without a residency this year. Oh, if it's a program I know, I'll make sure that it bites you square in the ass. There is no place for that in the profession that I value.

 

[aboveliquidice]

News flash: Residency is hard.

12-14 hr days (internal med roations), ongoing research project, preparing your monthly disease state review, preparing your grand rounds lecture, preparing your CE presentation, weekly clinic hours, and staffing.

OP - You should not be doing this unless your really want it. Seriously

 

[pharmkj]

Got a dilemma,

I wanted to do a residency a month ago (after scheduling interviews and all) but now certain circumstances have come up that makes me question whether I really want to do a residency. I'm afraid that if I withdraw I will never have that option to do a residency.

Should I just withdraw from the match by tomorrow and email all the directors, or should I just wait until the match results come, and if I still don't want to do a residency, cancel the agreement. I know that will look very bad on my part, but again I have personal circumstances that may not allow me to complete a residency this academic year.

This sounds exactly like me last year. I thought I wanted to do a residency but after my interviews I reevaluated everything and decided not to participate in matching at all. So i didnt list any of the places I interviewed with, but then the day the matching began, I get a call from APha telling me I got matched and why I havent listed any of the institutions that I interviewed with. (I guess your supposed to check off that you dont want to participate in matching). Thank god this was when they closed the listing period so they could begin matching and matching didnt official start....

Ya but if you do get matched, you are obligated to do the residency. They do keep a profile of your information like CV, transcripts and how your overall interview went (I dont know how long they keep a file of this) but I do know they keep your information... and if you do want to do a residency in the future, those instituions will have your info. But I would call APha on this asap.

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

"We are defined by the choices we make"

 

[Dalteparin]

This sounds exactly like me last year. I thought I wanted to do a residency but after my interviews I reevaluated everything and decided not to participate in matching at all. So i didnt list any of the places I interviewed with, but then the day the matching began, I get a call from APha telling me I got matched and why I havent listed any of the institutions that I interviewed with. (I guess your supposed to check off that you dont want to participate in matching). Thank god this was when they closed the listing period so they could begin matching and matching didnt official start....

Wait, I'm confused. You didn't rank any programs but you were still matched? I thought that a person could not be matched to a program they didn't rank.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Wait, I'm confused. You didn't rank any programs but you were still matched? I thought that a person could not be matched to a program they didn't rank.

There are some other issues with the story, I think. For one, what does APhA have to do with it?

I'm thinking that he meant he got ranked by places he interviewed, not matched. I don't think one can match unless there is mutual ranking. I also really doubt that ASHP or the matching service would CALL an applicant to see why they hadn't ranked any programs. But it COULD happen, I guess?

 

[pharmkj]

Wait, I'm confused. You didn't rank any programs but you were still matched? I thought that a person could not be matched to a program they didn't rank.

the day that the match closed i get a callfrom ashp on whether i was going to participate in matching or now. i told them no (they got upset bc i didnt state/check that I didnt want to not participate in the matching program). the woman from ashp was like "are you going to list, because you got matched with such and such place. " but she didnt tell me which number i was ranked as.

 

[ngmc11]

I got a call from the national matching program just to confirm my rank list.
I took 2 years off and decided to re apply to residencies. The time taken to experience life outside of pharmacy and just work was extremely beneficial to personal development.

 

[dingerx]

I got a call from the national matching program just to confirm my rank list.
I took 2 years off and decided to re apply to residencies. The time taken to experience life outside of pharmacy and just work was extremely beneficial to personal development.

If you took two years off then why are you still listed as a pharmacy student?

 

[mustang sally]

If you took two years off then why are you still listed as a pharmacy student? Don't be a jackass.

Maybe he/she never updated their status since they joined in 2006. I doubt everyone who joins SDN actively keeps up with it.

 

[spacecowgirl]

If you took two years off then why are you still listed as a pharmacy student? Don't be a jackass.

What's with people on here lately? I like to bust people's chops too, but what's this about? Sheesh, who's the jackass?

 

[dingerx]

What's with people on here lately? I like to bust people's chops too, but what's this about? Sheesh, who's the jackass?

Sounds like the pp is throwing garbage in there to confuse ppl. Strange how ASHP and NatMatch are now calling people. If that is being made up, get a freaking life. If not, still, strange. Didn't really think that they would call to see if you submitted your rank(s). Seems to me that if you are smart enough to graduate, smart enough to interview, and smart enough to access the system then you would be smart enough to rank without having to be contacted.

 

[RX CARE]

The whole thing was made up. It started with APhA, and then being called (way past the deadline.....in fact after the match results) to verify whether you are gonna submit your list because you got matched although you withdrew from the match? Please we are not gullible. Attention has been given to all those who crave it, so I'm sure they now feel better....case closed. Now unto something else.

 

[ngmc11]

I was confused why they called me in the first place. But it was to double check the choices. National matching service said they are checking on a bunch of candidates too.
Calling Canada on google voice is free.

Updated my status.

 

[drugdoc]

They called me to verify that I pulled out of the match (I accepted a non-match residency position). I asked her if there was a problem - she said that they call a lot of people who pull out, to make sure they realized what they did (or worded similarly to that).

 

[dingerx]

They called me to verify that I pulled out of the match (I accepted a non-match residency position). I asked her if there was a problem - she said that they call a lot of people who pull out, to make sure they realized what they did (or worded similarly to that).

Ok, that makes sense. The buttons for withdraw and ROLIC are right next to each other. Congrats.

 

[dingerx]

A pharmacy fellowship is a directed, highly
individualized, postgraduate program designed to prepare
the participant to become an independent researcher

Yes. I'm in a fellowship. We are talking about residencies.

 

[akaykay]

so what now?

contact the programs and regret to inform them that I will not be doing a residency

OR

wait until the match results to even see if I matched at all, then pull out

 

[spacecowgirl]

What's the point of telling them? Haven't they already had to submit their rankings?

 

[akaykay]

to let me them know ahead of time so that they can look into other candidates before the scramble

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

to let me them know ahead of time so that they can look into other candidates before the scramble

This was a very selfish move I must say. I do not not wish bad upon anyone but I do hope people get what they deserve.

 

[cycloketocaine]

to let me them know ahead of time so that they can look into other candidates before the scramble

I get the feeling that you're trolling.

Either that or you're an idiot.

One of the two.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I get the feeling that you're trolling.

Either that or you're an idiot.

One of the two.

Generally they are not mutually exclusive.

akaykay - you screwed up. Leave it be until you see if you match, IMO. There's nothing they can do. Ugh, why am I even responding to you?

 

[lorain]

so what now?

contact the programs and regret to inform them that I will not be doing a residency

OR

wait until the match results to even see if I matched at all, then pull out

why did you even enter the match if you are going to change your direction b4 the results are even posted?

seems like a lot of trouble could have been avoided if you just didnt submit rank and withdrew b4 match deadline

 

[Praziquantel86]

So what ended up happening?

 

[rrr10]

Karm12 is right. Having done PGY1, PGY2, and working myself I can tell you that many of us in the hospital or clinical world would agree. Pharmacy is a small world and word gets out. There is an AJHP article that surveyed what program directors would do if someone matched and pulled out. It includes most commonly listed reasons candidates give for canceling, whether they would hire the person, and if they'd tell others they know.

 

[njac]

the place where I did my PGY1 had a candidate pull this on them this year.

Pretty shady, since that means they weren't on the scramble list.