Why would anyone go into primary care nowadays?

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So anyway, why would anyone do primary care:
- More long term relationships with patients (10-15 years as a pediatrician, up to 50 years as a family doc)
- Diagnose and treat/follow up an incredibly diverse spectrum of diseases
- The option to 'be your own boss', also excists in other specialties ofcourse, but its easier as a PCP then as a general surgeon

Considerations:
- Less money, however, doctors of physical therapy have a similar debt level and make far less (+/- 80k) and do just fine paying it of
- Mid levels are getting more and more autonomy, this might intimidate some but as an MD you should have a competitive edge, there are also lots of opportunities to take more of a coordinating role
- The way medicine is practiced in the United States and insurance - those long term relationships have relatively disappeared.
- More and more private practices are consolidating with hospitals so you're hardly "your own boss".

- PT school costs nowhere near the same amount for med school.
- Most MDs don't want to be "coordinators".

You should state that you're a med student from Belgium.

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- There is the option of starting a (concierge) practice yourself, something I assumed the libertarians on this forum would appreciate
- 200k in debt is not uncommon for a PT
- This tread isn't about what most MDs want, its about reasons to go into primary care. Being a coordinator and focussing on difficult cases while keeping a team afloat can be a vary challenging and interesting job

I can disclose, not disclose or make up whatever nationality I want, this is an online forum

but as the discussion has an implied focus on american medicine, it's a little more honest to admit your experience/knowledge is potentially irrelevant
 
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Members don't see this ad :)
- There is the option of starting a (concierge) practice yourself, something I assumed the libertarians on this forum would appreciate
- 200k in debt is not uncommon for a PT
- This tread isn't about what most MDs want, its about reasons to go into primary care. Being a coordinator and focussing on difficult cases while keeping a team afloat can be a vary challenging and interesting job

I can disclose, not disclose or make up whatever nationality I want, this is an online forum
My point is that if your desire is to be a clinician (which most med students strive to be), and not a coordinator, then primary care is not for you. Primary care was not initially a "coordinator" position - it has become that way bc of govt. Also concierge practice works in very few zip codes.
 
but as the discussion has an implied focus on american medicine, it's a little more honest to admit your experience/knowledge is potentially irrelevant
There's another poster from Mexico that also does the same thing, by contributing to the discussion and giving advice and not revealing that he/she practices in Mexico.
 
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Wanted to pop in to let you guys know that very soon the NHS will start paying for homeopathy services too! What a great use of taxpayer money that is!

"Greg Clark MP, whose full title is Minister of State for Universities, Science and Cities, was among 206 MPs in 2007 who signed an early-day motion that "welcomes the positive contribution made to the health of the nation by the NHS homeopathic hospitals"

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jonstone/david-camerons-appoints-homeopathy-supporter-as-science-mini

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/15/greg-clark-homeopathy_n_5587829.html
 
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After further research I found that they've been paying for homeopathy for quite a while now, and likely will do a lot more in the future...

How would you feel if your government increased your taxes so they can use your hard earned money to pay for quackery? This is what governments do. And if you don't agree, you go to jail.
 
And yet even with all this NHS waste and governmental interference, the UK still exists.
So does North Korea. What's your point? That as long as the country doesn't implode it's ok?
 
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Amazing that North Korea manages something that's apparently impossible for the US.
It's not impossible for us, the people of the US just don't want it. If you want it so bad, I'd suggest moving to one of the many countries that has it.
 
It's not impossible for us, the people of the US just don't want it. If you want it so bad, I'd suggest moving to one of the many countries that has it.

And what happens if/when a majority of Americans do want it? Will you support it then?
 
And what happens if/when a majority of Americans do want it? Will you support it then?
Of course I won't support it, but I believe in democracy, so if that's what the majority wants, they can have it. I'll have to find another place for my care, as do the tons of Canadians that come over here for medical care every year because they're unsatisfied with their universal health system.
 
Then why do you keep mentioning whether a majority support it or not? We're both talking about what we want, not what's going to happen.
I was responding to your remark about why we can't have one when North Korea does. We can have one. The problem is, most of us don't want one.

When polled about universal health coverage initially, the vast majority of Americans agree to it. But then when asked if they would be willing to not have their choice of doctors, have longer wait times for non-emergency care, and put up with care rationing, that number drops significantly. As I've mentioned before, our culture just is not amenable to universal health coverage. That's why, even if we get it, it won't work. People will not be happy with it, unless they can get whatever they want when they want it, which none of these countries with universal health care can manage, and neither can we. It's just impossible.

It's hard enough even if you have the best insurance because there just aren't enough doctors around.
 
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I also don't want to work under a universal health plan. I want to be able to negotiate my fee and turn down any companies that don't pay me well enough. Unfortunately with the NHS, it's a "take it or leave it" situation. The universal health plan has no competitors, so no one can offer a better payment.
 
Yeah but that forgiven debt will be considered phantom income which is taxed.
images
 
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sometimes someone must be the first in line.
Just like bulbasaur is 1#, you should know better OP.
 
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So anyway, why would anyone do primary care:
- More long term relationships with patients (10-15 years as a pediatrician, up to 50 years as a family doc)
- Diagnose and treat/follow up an incredibly diverse spectrum of diseases
- The option to 'be your own boss', also excists in other specialties ofcourse, but its easier as a PCP then as a general surgeon

Considerations:
- Less money, however, doctors of physical therapy have a similar debt level and make far less (+/- 80k) and do just fine paying it of
- Mid levels are getting more and more autonomy, this might intimidate some but as an MD you should have a competitive edge, there are also lots of opportunities to take more of a coordinating role
Agreed. Private practice opportunities and longevity of the patient-physician relationship are two major reasons I'm interested in Primary Care.

And I'm no fan of socializing our healthcare system but even in the NHS, private hospitals and physicians are becoming increasingly prevalent, can still charge patients directly, and still make money.
 
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I was responding to your remark about why we can't have one when North Korea does. We can have one. The problem is, most of us don't want one.

When polled about universal health coverage initially, the vast majority of Americans agree to it. But then when asked if they would be willing to not have their choice of doctors, have longer wait times for non-emergency care, and put up with care rationing, that number drops significantly. As I've mentioned before, our culture just is not amenable to universal health coverage. That's why, even if we get it, it won't work. People will not be happy with it, unless they can get whatever they want when they want it, which none of these countries with universal health care can manage, and neither can we. It's just impossible.

It's hard enough even if you have the best insurance because there just aren't enough doctors around.
That's what is so difficult for him to understand. Most of the American people DON'T WANT a single payer system and the downsides of that system.
 
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That's what is so difficult for him to understand. Most of the American people DON'T WANT a single payer system and the downsides of that system.

Absolutely. It sounds good in theory, but once Americans find out what they'll have to sacrifice to get it, the vast majority will want nothing to do with it, and this is what every poll out there has shown.

I agree with them. I don't want the downsides of that system either, as I don't think they compensate for the benefits. Look at how good the VA handles healthcare. There's socialized healthcare in the United States for you. People dying because they can't get care despite massive tax dollars spent. How can you look at that and say our government is fit to manage healthcare?

I also don't want to be a government employee for the rest of my life, which is what would happen if we socialized healthcare. If that happens I'm packing up and finding another country to practice in.
 
Absolutely. It sounds good in theory, but once Americans find out what they'll have to sacrifice to get it, the vast majority will want nothing to do with it, and this is what every poll out there has shown.

I agree with them. I don't want the downsides of that system either, as I don't think they compensate for the benefits. Look at how good the VA handles healthcare. There's socialized healthcare in the United States for you. People dying because they can't get care despite massive tax dollars spent.

I also don't want to be a government employee for the rest of my life, which is what would happen if we socialized healthcare. If that happens I'm packing up and finding another country to practice in.
Also part of the reason that medicine is so satisfying is that you are able to do things for your patients. A single payer system takes that away from doctors. Forget salary. The autonomy of what as a doctor you are able to do for your patient disappears in a single payer system.
 
Also part of the reason that medicine is so satisfying is that you are able to do things for your patients. A single payer system takes that away from doctors. Forget salary. The autonomy of what as a doctor you are able to do for your patient disappears in a single payer system.
Absolutely. This is a big downside.

But one of the biggest reasons to avoid it at all costs is probably the fact that our government is just too incompetent to handle it. The VA debacle has made that quite clear. They can't even handle taking care of the veterans, much less everybody.
 
Absolutely. This is a big downside.

But one of the biggest reasons to avoid it at all costs is probably the fact that our government is just too incompetent to handle it. The VA debacle has made that quite clear.
That too and the doctor is left holding the bag. No one gets mad at the third party payer -- it's all on the doctor.
 
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That too and the doctor is left holding the bag. No one gets mad at the third party payer -- it's all on the doctor.
Doctors always get blamed because the doctors are the public face of healthcare. The public has no clue what's going on behind the scenes.

The VA debacle is just one thing they screwed up that's getting media coverage. There's hundreds of other things that are yet to be brought out to the public. Medicare is an absolute mess.

Do we really want these people to be in charge of everyone's health? They can't even take care of their veterans.
 
Jonny, read this article before you bother arguing with any libertarians any further:

http://www.sethf.com/essays/major/libstupid.php

It explains why you're in for nothing but frustration. Arguing with libertarians, not even once.

Lol I could make one about arguing with liberals that is 100x better. At least most libertarians are people that are politically active and actually know what they are talking about. The majority of liberals aren't even aware of where their candidates stand on various issues.
 
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Doctors always get blamed because the doctors are the public face of healthcare. The public has no clue what's going on behind the scenes.

The VA debacle is just one thing they screwed up that's getting media coverage. There's hundreds of other things that are yet to be brought out to the public. Medicare is an absolute mess.

Do we really want these people to be in charge of everyone's health? They can't even take care of their veterans.
Yeah, the scariest thing is that the VA scandal is just the tip of the iceberg. Who knows what we have yet to discover?
 
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Lol I could make one about arguing with liberals that is 100x better. At least most libertarians are people that are politically active and actually know what they are talking about. The majority of liberals aren't even aware of where their candidates stand on various issues.
That's even more prevalent amongst college students who have been incessantly indoctrinated by their liberal professors to vote democrat. However, if you ask them why they voted for a democrat they can't tell you. If you ask them what Benghazi is, they have no idea.
 
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God forbid doctors have it a little worse. That's unthinkable.

Speak for yourself. Doctors get too much crap as it is. Why do we have to be the ones sacrificing all the time? I don't owe anything to the world.

How about some of the worthless government officials take the heat for us. They're happy to gobble up our tax money after all. Cut their salaries and their perks, not the doctors.

Doctors are always up for a paycut, but what about Senators and congressmen?
 
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That's even more prevalent amongst college students who have been incessantly indoctrinated by their liberal professors to vote democrat. However, if you ask them why they voted for a democrat they can't tell you. If you ask them what Benghazi is, they have no idea.

If that war criminal takes office, I will leave this country ASAP, completely serious.
 
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If that war criminal takes office, I will leave this country ASAP, completely serious.
Illl stick it out, but I tell you, if people can elect her, then they've shown they don't care about those innocent people, or America. For now, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
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Lol I could make one about arguing with liberals that is 100x better. At least most libertarians are people that are politically active and actually know what they are talking about. The majority of liberals aren't even aware of where their candidates stand on various issues.
I'm not a liberal or a conservative. I'm an independent that loathes both parties equally, but even my general disdain for the mainstream political parties is only a fraction of how much I detest the libertarian party. It isn't just the left that offers scathing criticism of Libertarians- there's a reason they're kept at arm's length or father from the modern right.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/marxism-of-the-right/

Anyway, we shouldn't derail this thread any further. Universal health care probably won't come to pass, nor will some libertarian system, so let's focus on reasons for going into primary care that are grounded in reality like student loan repayment, excellent mobility, and the like.
 
If that war criminal takes office, I will leave this country ASAP, completely serious.
Same here, I'm out. It's time to find greener pastures anyway. America has gone way past the tipping point.
 
If that war criminal takes office, I will leave this country ASAP, completely serious.
Why? Hillary Clinton is hardly an evil person. She's a politician who is incompetent and self-serving, but not an evil person.
 
Speak for yourself. Doctors get too much crap as it is. Why do we have to be the ones sacrificing all the time? I don't owe anything to the world.

How about some of the worthless government officials take the heat for us. They're happy to gobble up our tax money after all. Cut their salaries and their perks, not the doctors.

Doctors are always up for a paycut, but what about Senators and congressmen?
I'd just like to add if anyone deserves to keep their money, it's the doctors. Just consider what they do compared to the average person, and what they have to go through to achieve.
 
I'm not a liberal or a conservative. I'm an independent that loathes both parties equally, but even my general disdain for the mainstream political parties is only a fraction of how much I detest the libertarian party. It isn't just the left that offers scathing criticism of Libertarians- there's a reason they're kept at arm's length or father from the modern right.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/marxism-of-the-right/

Anyway, we shouldn't derail this thread any further. Universal health care probably won't come to pass, nor will some libertarian system, so let's focus on reasons for going into primary care that are grounded in reality like student loan repayment, excellent mobility, and the like.

Um the GOP tries to suppress the libertarians because the libertarians are gaining more and more momentum and it's estimated that the GOP will undergo complete turnover by 2020 at the latest. Rand Paul will be the GOP candidate in 2016, and that scares the **** out of the establishment conservatives. I've never met an unsuccessful libertarian btw. Completely anecdotal, just saying.

Also unrelated to you Mad Jack, but to respond to other posts I sincerely believe Benghazi was an act of treason by her and I won't support a nation that has a president who I believe directly committed treason. I might disagree with Obama and his policies as well as other politicians, but what Clinton has done is a whole 'nother level and not tolerable personally.
 
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I love Ron Paul. I voted for him for president twice. Rand is a loon and will not be the nominee.
 
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Why? Hillary Clinton is hardly an evil person. She's a politician who is incompetent and self-serving, but not an evil person.
I hate to say someone is evil, and I don't think Hilary is really "evil" but you'd probably think differently if you were the family of those innocent people who died, and then Hilary says, well it's over now.
 
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I must be missing something. How does that make her evil? She did her job. I don't like Hillary but there's nothing evil here.
Yeah, I mean, Nothing wrong with laughing on tape when discussing how she helped a child rapist get away when she knew that he was guilty.

I get she was doing her job, but her behavior on those tapes suggests something else.
 
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