Why is there a negative view towards Argosy University?

[cara susanna]

I think they should just get rid of student loans, or heavily revise the system. It would force tuition to lower and cut off the supply to for-profits.

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[thepug]

I think they should just get rid of student loans, or heavily revise the system. It would force tuition to lower and cut off the supply to for-profits.

These "schools" are a scam and the U.S. government student loan system is the patsy. I know a kid who did not go to college and is making 80k working for the railroad. People need to stop buying into this scam which has been pushed in large part by high school educators.

We need to focus more on trade schools, training people for the present economy.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

These "schools" are a scam and the U.S. government student loan system is the patsy. I know a kid who did not go to college and is making 80k working for the railroad. People need to stop buying into this scam which has been pushed in large part by high school educators.

We need to focus more on trade schools, training people for the present economy.

I don't know that I'd necessarily agree that high school educators are the primary perpetrators, or that what they're pushing is a scam. However, I definitely agree that a much, much greater focus needs to be placed on educating individuals about alternatives to college, and on touting the benefits of those alternatives. Trade schools and vocational programs represent excellent examples of such alternatives. We need to stop telling people that college is the answer for EVERYONE, even if it's something which they have no interest in doing.

 

[thepug]

I don't know that I'd necessarily agree that high school educators are the primary perpetrators, or that what they're pushing is a scam. However, I definitely agree that a much, much greater focus needs to be placed on educating individuals about alternatives to college, and on touting the benefits of those alternatives. Trade schools and vocational programs represent excellent examples of such alternatives. We need to stop telling people that college is the answer for EVERYONE, even if it's something which they have no interest in doing.

No they are not the sole causes (BTW I loved my H.S. teachers), but that whole bit they do "Everyone who wants to go to college raise your hand" and then the accompanying facial expressions/body language, is pretty sketchy.

 

[thepug]

I think they should just get rid of student loans, or heavily revise the system. It would force tuition to lower and cut off the supply to for-profits.

Or maybe make the schools give out the loans

Maybe then we would not have a school graduating 2,000 art history majors per year (or 5,000 psych majors).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Or maybe make the schools give out the loans

Maybe then we would not have a school graduating 2,000 art history majors per year (or 5,000 psych majors).

Or at least possibly match some partial government contribution and/or be on the hook should the student default.

 

[Alenthranil]

I have been looking at a lot of threads concerning Argosy or professional schools in general. I am wondering if anyone knows or has anything to say about the MN campus of Argosy, since it was the Minnesota School of Professional Psycholoy and had a fairly decent rep before Argosy took over. I am in the last year of my master's degree at St Cloud State University and want to continue on to get my PsyD since I am not very research orientated. I also want to stay in the state which limits my choices to U of M which is heavy in research, PsyD at St Thomas or Argosy....does anyone have any suggestions or feedback?

 

[HenryHall]

I think they should just get rid of student loans, or heavily revise the system. It would force tuition to lower and cut off the supply to for-profits.

Or allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy. As they were until relatively recently as the enlightened policies of the Bush era transformed America so. Does anyone remember what it was like before Bush v. Gore?

Doing that would have the benefit of somewhat solving the problem retrospectively as well a prospectively.

 

[cara susanna]

But allowing them to be discharged would only help the struggling students, it wouldn't address the tuition inflation and student loan bubble.

 

[HenryHall]

But allowing them to be discharged would only help the struggling students, it wouldn't address the tuition inflation and student loan bubble.

Even if that were so, helping struggling students is a worthwhile thing to do alone.

But it is really a chicken and egg situation.
No discharge in bankruptcy -> Easy qualify loans -> Excessive borrowing -> Excessive tuition fees -> Pressure to borrow -> Lenders demand incentives -> No discharge in bankruptcy.

Apologies for putting forward a drifiting controversial view. It would be more conservative to say that the beginning of modern student finance problems is correlated with bankruptcy law reforms of around 1978 and was made much worse by the bankruptcy law reforms of 2005. With all the dangers of the "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy.

Where loans are unsoundly made for education with little market value the graduates are liable to find themselves in bankruptcy anyway. Where loans are soundly made for education that is a good investment for both individuals and nation repayments will be honored; but you can't get blood out of a stone. There is no evidence that students ever abused the bankruptcy system when loans were made soundly, tuition fees moderate and education tilted towards the harsh real world. But the fear that they would be extinguished in bankruptcy is what opened the door to highly profitable but totally irresponsible lending and more. To paraphrase FDR, all we have to fear is fear itself.

 

[cara susanna]

Oh, that's a good point.