Why DO when you can get MD?

[johndental]

Hi,

Why would anyone want to go to DO school if they could gain admission to an AMA school and pursue an MD degree? I understand the training and that DOs are real doctors so no need to educate me about that and "extra" training etc... Its an equivelant degree as far as training I'm sure. But the statistics of DO schools ( not so much in gpas but in terms of MCATS since those who go to better schools tend to score higher etc..I mean gpa is kinda of crock if your a nonscience major etc... DO schools do have lower MCAT scores I would imagine if they release them.. also: I doubt you get many people from real prestigious undergrad schools going to DO school BUT I could be wrong so chill )

However, It seems to me that DO schools are for people who cant get into AMA schools. I mean why would you choose to go into a profession like this IF YOU HAD AN ACCEPTANCE AT AN AMA SCHOOL? the only people I've ever known to do this from my undergrad where those who didnt have the goods for med school ( hey, nothing wrong with that its damned competitive ). DO's are virtually nonexistant in some parts of the country and while they are able to specialize in some locales it would be harder for them SOCIALLY ( what is a DO? are you a chiropractor? why would you always want to be explaining your degree? ). In the area that I live people still relegate DO's to the fringes of medical practice ( poorer less affluent areas: which is great if you ask me since this what doctors ought to be doing ). One of my friends in undergrad who went to wash u to get an MD told me that DO's were only able to practice in out in "boonies" ( false ). I'm not justifying this attitude but it seems prevalent.

IF given the choice why would you choose? ( personally I think many dont have the choice but please dont flame me, if I wanted to be a medical doctor I would choose a DO school if it was the only path and I had been rejected by an AMA school..the training is the same however I sure as hell wouldnt want to explain to all my relations what an OSTEOPATH did IF I HAD THE CHOICE TO MATRICULATE AT AN AMA SCHOOL )

This is not a hostile thread. Just curious what the rationale is.

JohnDental future head toother...

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[group_theory]

Most premeds reaction to the DOs profession upon hearing about osteopathic medicine is "Why DO when you can do MD?"

My response to that is: why not?

Why is MD so prestigious? There are 125+ LCME MD schools (some w/ lower average scores than DO schools), tons of international medical schools (some willing to take anyone w/ cash) - while there is only 19 (or 20) DO schools.

In reality, DOs and MDs are equivalent degrees in the United States. The DOs are not second hand doctors picking up jobs that no MD wants. If that is true, then I guess no MD wanted to do a residency at Mayo since that is where our beloved moderator will be heading to. I guess there were no MDs (foreign or US) who wanted to work at JHU or CHOP or HUP.

The perception among premeds about DOs is sadly negative and wrong. I can wave my hand and protest or argue all I want, but in order for YOU to see what DOs and MDs do, talk to the people out there in the health care field (or experience it first hand). The reality of the situation is: MD = DO. Some do manipulation, but in most cases, MD = DO.

MDs are everywhere. DOs are rare (in comparison). Besides, if an MD comes up to me and go "I have an MD, you have a DO" - that is a very childish behavior. In this scenerio, who is more mature, more intelligent? The MD flaunting his post-nominal letters, or the DO that stands there?

Patients rarely notices the DO distinction (and a lot do not even know their doctors are DOs). HMO and Medicare billings are exactly the same. Hospitals do not discriminate against DOs anymore.

So I will flip the question around: Why MD instead of DO? And before you respond to that, ask yourself this: Am I choosing MD over DO for the right reasons?


Oh - and a little clarification - although the AOA is the agency recognized by the US Department of Education responsible for accreditation of DO medical schools, the AMA isn't responsible for MD medical school accreditation. It's the LCME.

Anyway - I answered your question honestly, sincerely, and thoughtfully. Now it is your turn: Why MD over DO?

P.S. You want examples of undergrads from real prestigious undergrad going to DO schools? I am a student at the University of Pennsylvania. It gets tons of money for NIH research. USNews rank us #4 this year behind HYP. The medical school and hospitals are in the top 10. It is a member of the ivy league. According to Deb, 3-5 students from Penn every year go to PCOM, where there are students from Dartmouth, MIT, etc.
I also work at CHOP, considered by many as one of the best children's hospital in the country. There are over 1300 residency applicants for 36 spots. But I guess you have to tell the DOs here that they are working where no MDs want to work.

 

[Teufelhunden]

One of my classmates had acceptances to two MD schools here in Ohio, but in the end chose OUCOM for several factors. First and foremost, he liked the curriculum here (problem-based) better than the other schools (which had more traditional curricula). Secondly, as a college track athlete, he had been treated by an osteopathic physician for numerous sports injuries (successfully I might add), and that had left a positive impression on him.

As for me, I applied to both MD and DO schools. I am not ashamed to admit that I wasn't accepted to any of the MD schools I applied to -- my numbers just weren't good enogh (3.6 GPA, 27 MCAT). However, I was extremely happy to be accepted here (OUCOM) and, two years later, am still happy with my decision as I feel I am receiving a solid medical education.

Many people choose osteopathic medicine for different reasons. Some of my classmates are really enthusiastic about Osteopathic principles, treatment modalities, etc. For me, I just wanted to be a doctor, and am happy that an osteopathic school was willing to look past my less-than-stellar numbers and give me an opportunity to become a physician.

As an older student, who spent 8 years in the Marines before starting college, I am a little past this whole ?I?m better than you? debate. In the end, the only people I really hope to impress someday are my patients.

 

[sfjohn]

have you ever gone to a DO? my personal experience is why i'm interested in DO vs MD. i think a lot of people talk a lot about the difference between MD and DO without ever having been seen by a DO for a medical reason.

i have gone to MD's for most of my life. at 25, with 2 of my best friends from high school who are DO's, i switched my care provider to a DO from an MD. i went into the situation with an open mind. the experience was very different, from my perspective. of course, i'm sure there are good DO's and bad DO's, good MD's and bad MD's. maybe i had bad luck w/ MD's and happened to get a super DO, but i loved the new approach to "doctoring," as i knew it.

now applying to med school at 30, i applied to a bunch of osteopathic schools, and the allopathic programs from my homestate, CA (mostly 'cause they're DIRT CHEAP to attend). i've been accepted to all of the DO schools that i applied to, and 3 UC's.

i've done research for years, and am not interested in a high powered research environment - i'm more interested in a focus on clinical care. i'm also ready to leave california for a bit - although i want to return after school. i also really liked the students and faculty that i met at CCOM. in general, i feel that the student body in DO programs is slightly older than in MD programs - which is also very appealing to me. these students realize that there is more to life than the next exam, have other interesting life experiences to share other than simply undergrad to round out the overall educational experience.

essentially, it came down to student body and facilities for me - and in my opinion, the DO schools (ccom in particlar) were more in line with what i was looking for.

i think that one will get an excellent education at any DO or MD school. i also think that one will fare on the boards in proportion to how well one learns material and takes standardized exams. residency matches will be based not only on scores, but on the kind of physician that you are shaping up to be - and how that is perceived by your preceptors in years 3 & 4 who write your recommendations.

really, i think it comes down to the fact that each individual has the potential to be as successful in his/her career as he/she wants to be. choosing a school is about where you feel most comfortable. it's about choosing an environment (facilities, weather, classmates, faculty) that will be most conducive to your ability to learn about medicine. it's not about the letters after your name, mcat scores of matriculated students, or a school's board score-card. well, for me anyway.

 

[phd2b]

I had a similar experience insofar as my wife's OB was a DO and was the best clinician and person I've ever met. That got me interested. I've been under the care for an orthopedic surgeon (another DO) and he did a much better job of diagnosing my specific back problems and getting me on a reasonable treatment schedule (no surgery!) than the MD counterpart that I had visited before him. In short, I like the kind of human beings that I've encountered who have happened to have 'D.O.' after their names. They are very well respected clinicians in their respective fields.

I'm certainly not very hung up with which letters one gets and from where. I'm much more concerned with how effective the individual is as a clinician and a caregiver.

Just my $0.02...

 

[rpames]

At my undergrad school, in the top 5 by US News, a lot of pre-meds are apply and going to DO schools. One for example is a URM female with a ~3.9 and from what I can persume a great MCAT, she only applied to DO schools. Several others are very interested in DO schools and probably are going. The more we are educated about the other fields, the more of us will actually understand that the DO is legally and ACTUALLY equally qualified doctors.

 

[rbassdo]

I chose to go DO because I was so impressed with the osteopaths at the hospital I worked at. The education I'm getting is second to none as proven by board scores (COMLEX and USMLE). It is my contention that osteopathic schools generally work their students harder than most allopathic schools. Data that I am aware of supports this from a purely numerical standpoint (class and lab hours). Also, in keeping in contact with friends at Loyola, SLU, and a couple other MD schools, I sense (and so do they) that I'm "working harder" and being tested more than they are. I am willing to admit that, in general, allopathic residency programs are better (sometimes much better) than osteopathic programs, but I truly believe that I couldn't be getting a better basic medical education ANYWHERE. When it comes time for me to apply to residency programs, I know that I'll be competitive in both the osteopathic and allopathic arenas. I have my institution and its ulumni to thank for that. Lastly, I love OMM! It's a great and legitimate tool.

 

[Gregory Gulick]

I chose DO for the same reason that many premeds choose to pursue MDs: admiration for my physician mentors. In my case, all of these mentors were DOs.

Before ever stepping foot in medical school, my family used a DO as our primary care physician. My mom's interventional cardiologist is a DO, as is her oncologist (at H. Lee Moffitt Cancer Center). I've been surrounded by DOs for a long time and they've always taken damn good care of me and my family. After becomming disillusioned with my first career choice (audiology), I decided I wanted something more out of life so I went back to school as a post-bacc premed with the goal of becomming DO. In about six months, I will have reached that goal.

If DO schools have lower GPAs and MCATs, so be it. Those numbers mean nothing to me. In fact, the only number I cared about was the average age of the entering class. My class had an average age of 26; the local MD school in the area had an average age of 22. I'll prefer my school accept the more mature, experienced applicants over any idealistic, naive little kid with stellar numbers.

I have nothing against MDs. I just had absolutely no desire to become one.

 

[johndental]

good responses.

I think the personal experience angle is great. I think there are many great DO's out there and this might cause one to further investigate the profession and choose DO. However, where I went to school the top students all go to MD schools. Maybe its different where you go to school but not where I am. Most would only consider DO as an alternative to MD if no admit.
I'm really not talking about those who have DO's in their families etc. This is a special case situation. Most of the students who go to DO school in this state dont come from the top public and private universities on the undergraduate level. They come from lesser known schools though they of course make fine Doctors.

Plus the AMA schools in my area get many students from the ivies. I dont think this is true of DO schools not that it matters if only to state that its a bit less prestigious socially perhaps in certain regions of the country ( kind of like how some doctors view dentists or other healthcare providers etc.. )

I dont think it will ever be more difficult to get into a DO school but thats not really the point. I have heard of some very bright people on this board going to DO school because an AMA school rejected them because they did poorly there first year in college or someone had a poor interview etc..

Its a great profession but I personally think I would have a bit of a complex about it. I agree that DO schools may just work their students a bit harder than ama schools though. Personally, I think board scores in the basic sciences have little to do with how good a doctor you are. DO schools may push their students harder to achieve on these standardized tests out of a sense of inferiority ( I cant really see some school like Stanford or Vanderbilt putting much emphasis on board scores: they figure if
you got in your pretty smart and boards are standardized and the faculty might have more of a clinical emphasis early on without worrying as much about basic sciences early on but what do I know ) And I didnt go to a US news top five school but what does that mean? you go to Harvard? I had a friend try and tell me recently that Ohio State is one of the top five undergrad business schools in the country. Great. It may be, but it aint Michigan or Illinois or Berkely in terms of overall academic reputation so I take this US news ranking stuff with a grain of salt. Hell I would have rather gone to Brown ( unranked in many of US news rankings ) because its an IVY leaugue school than OSU any day in any lifetime because a degree from Brown opens up a hell of a lot more doors than one from OSU but I shall refrain.

Thanks for the great responses. I think many of you guys feel real comfortable with your decision and thats all that counts.
BTW: I had a friend get run over in a car accident and he was taken to a DO hospital. His brother was an MD who encouraged him to leave and transfer to his hospital ( if thats not witness to the fact that tension still exists I dont what is ). He didnt and stuck with his DO docs who did a great job. I must say I did take away one everlasting impression: I noticed no difference. Seemed like a hospital with a bunch of physicians who happen to have DO on their medical degrees.

 

[SawBones]

Considering that MDs comprise about 90-95% of the physicians in this country, consider the following:

* We are currently in a HUGE healthcare crisis.

* A giant percentage of the American population is uninsured.

* Malpractice premiums are skyrocketing.

* Medicare is getting cut AGAIN this year.

* Alternative healthcare (some legit, most not) is booming because patients are fed up with their physicians.

* Many physicians are having to sell their solo practices because they can't make ends meet due to drastically decreased reimbursements.

Considering all of this, your TOP STUDENTS (as you called them) that have largely become MDs are doing a grrrrrrrrrrrreat job, aren't they? Go MDs!!

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I am easily irritated by the shallow minds of those who insist on discussing "numbers" and "prestige" as criteria for quality medical training. Utter foolishness.

If MD schools would spend more time looking for applicants that possess mental capabilities beyond those required to synthesize glue in an organic lab, then maybe this country wouldn't be in a healthcare crisis at all. Even better, maybe then the general public wouldn't have so much disdain for physicians. Until such time, I suppose it is left to the mere 20 DO schools to produce the type of physician that this country actually needs... and the kind of physician that the public actually wants. And while we by no means perform this duty perfectly, we're doing a helluva lot better than MD schools in accomplishing this task.

 

[group_theory]

johndental

First - you will find alumni from "real" prestigious schools everywhere. This includes state MD schools, DO schools, private top expensive MD schools, international schools, etc.

Second - you seem to be under the impression that DOs are social outcasts (you mentioned in two different posts). The last time I check, in social situation, you don't introduce yourself as "Dr. John Dental" but merely as "John Dental". If someone ask what you do, go "I'm a doctor" or "I'm a physician."

Anyway, I'll tie in the first part (prestigious schools) and the second part (social outcast) into my third message

RESPECT IS EARNED.
If I have proven myself and the MDs still do not respect me (or even treat me as second class citizen) - then their actions tells me more about their characters than their degrees. If they are not willing to give me a chance because of the DO, then they are very superficial. Will they also not give me a chance based on my skin color, my socio-economic background, the way I talk, where I went to undergrad, etc?
Discrimination based on post-nominal letters (and nothing else) is analogous to discrimination based on skin color. It is highly superficial.

With that said, I am sorry that you will always view DOs in your heart as MD-rejects. I am sorry that your friend's brother view DOs as MD-rejects. Maybe someday, a DO will come and will earn your respect.

Group_theory
(turning down MD schools for a DO school)

 

[johndental]

Ok,

First off I dont view DO's as a social rejects at all. I think they
are great doctors and I put them in the same boat as MD's. My friends brother was a cocky MD I geuss. Thats his attitude not mine. I've already stated that if my track was medicine I wouldnt hesitate to apply to DO school. However, I would only attend a DO school in lieu of an acceptance at an MD school because there is still is a bull**** stigma attached in some bigoted circles ( why would I want to bother with this? ). That was my only point. Doesnt make it right that some people view it differently. I think I would get tired of having to explain to the ignorant all the time that I am in fact "trained like a regular doctor" etc... with all the other stuff you devote your limited energies to this would bug me. To Group Theory: glad you are turning down MD school for DO school but I think your case would be the exception but I could be minsinformed who knows.

"Prestige" in medicine is probably overhyped for sure. You are correct in this point. I never asked my Physician where he went to school. I wouldnt hesitate to go to a DO if they were actively practicing in my area.

And yes, MD's have caused a healthcare crisis I understand this. They dont want to practice generalized medicine etc.. too specialized.

The comment regarding the undergrad schools was in response to the "my school is in the top 5" gibberish crap I hear all the time and is unrelated to this thread so I shouldnt have posted it.

One thing I really like about DO schools already that I have heard is that they take older students more readily and that its easier for someone older to fit in.

Thanks for the great responses.

 

[aquaboy]

I recently interviewed at KCOM. It was a great experience and I loved the city, students and great facilities at Kirksville. KCOM is the only DO school I applied to because if I do decide to go to an osteopathic school KCOM is the only one I would consider. I have interviews at many respectable allopathic schools and from what I have seen, the training is actually more rigorous at osteopathic schools than at allopathic schools. At KCOM they study very hard and don't even get a summer break after their 1st year. These students also get very desirable residencies in many specialties and they get top residencies (ie. peds at Mayo). I have always thought about primary care and was the reason I was interested in osteopathy.

It's true though, my family and others that I talk too have no idea what a DO is and view them as chiropractors that can prescribe drugs. I have had a hard time explaining to them that DO's are more than that. For me it won't be the letters behind my name but the school and philosophy that fits me best. The only drawback is the cost. Therefore, for me if I get in to a reasonably priced allopathic school (state school) I will probably go there because med school is so expensive and I don't want to spend 20 years paying back my debt.

 

[rbassdo]

aquaboy,

Please come to KCOM. Your attitude could only contribute positively to our already great situation. We work really really hard, you are right. It's worth it, though. Take care.

Ryan

 

[jgrieco]

Johndental:

There are several reasons I choose to be a DO. Many of the reasons have already been stated, so I won't repeat them. Thank you DO students for your professional and very intelligent replies!

The most important reason for me is the way I was treated by the schools and current osteopathic doctors. DO's tend to treat everyone, no matter who you are, like you are a human. My experience during the application process at allopathic school was horrible. I was a source of income for them, and they treated me like that is all I was. Many of their students carry attitude caries over into the practice of medicine, I know because I have the opportunity to work with many different doctors every day. When I graduate I want to have an attitude of compassion and genuine concern for my patients.

Also, patients today are looking for alternatives to taking that pill or having a surgical procedure performed. Osteopathic medicine often times gives the patient an alternative. Manipulation for many has improved or cured their ailment.

Osteopathic medicine concentrated on clinical medicine. I am not at all interested in research. I am a people person and would much rather spend my time treating patients than looking through a scope or something in the lab.

Someone stated it well in an earlier reply, DO = MD. The difference between the two is almost non-existent. I look at it as a privilege to explain my chosen profession. I like to tell ignorant people about the medical philosophy I believe. Some choose to agree and others don?t, but at least they are educated about my profession. I also think that as time moves on the gap between the two will close even more. It is my opinions that DO?s are the savior of medicine.

Johndental, tell us a little about yourself. What is your background? Did you apply to MD school or DO school? dental school? How old are you? Is one or both of your parents a MD? What is your current status?

 

[RockandRolldoc]

I know your post was with the best intentions, but this question to me is as relevant as one of us asking you... Why dentistry and not medicine?

Look if being looked down on by pretentious, biggoted, ancient MD's who got their medical training when leaches were used as much as drugs is something that would make you unhappy, then you have a lot more problems than just a stigma. You would have major self esteem problems as well. I am comfortable with my choice to go to D.O. school, So are my father, 2 uncles, and grandfather who all are D.O.'s. All live very good fulfilling lives. Don't answer to anyone but yourself! Most of the biases toward D.O.'s that i've ever heard regard them having lower stats out of undergrad. Think back to your activities and lifestyle in undergrad. Sort of a joke when you think what it really entails besides regurgitating information like a monkey and drinking beer. (mmmm beeeeeeer). Nobody ever really mentions the positive stigma's about being a D.O. I come from Michigan which is a very big D.O. state and since i have several physicians in my family, i have met many doctors D.O. and M.D. From several of these doctors, and one M.D. in particular who sits on a residency board, I have heard that residency directors love D.O.'s because they generally try harder and are more congenial to work with. In case anyone was wondering, the top criteria when selecting candidates for residencies is "Work Habits". Take from that what you will, but I'm sure some of my colleagues here have heard similar things. At the very worst, I think being a D.O. will cause a few people out there to underestimate me one day. I LOVE when people underestimate me, puts you in a pretty damn good position to show your stuff. Basically, don't worry about stigma's, they are for people with low self esteem. A lot of people think that all dentists are miserable and suicidal and that dental school is a joke. This couldn't be further from the truth, and I'm reminded of that every day here at Nova when I see my friends in the dental school.
Good luck on finals Everyone....

 

[johndental]

Hey Rock and Roll Doc it sounds like you are the one with the low self esteem. If Stuart Smalley like daily affirmations improve your self image ( or attacking those who in any way explore the
social perceptions of what a DO degree means then so be it ) You reaffrim that SOME DO"s do in fact have inferiority complexes.

I have not applied to Medical School because I have no desire to be a physician. If I did I would probably apply to DO school only after first applying to an AMA school. It may be true that DO's practice everywhere in Michigain but they are restricted socially where I live. This is a fact. Choose to ignore it fine. It would bug me to have to explain my medical degree to ignorant folk. If this causes me to have low self esteem than I'm glad your here to make light of it. I'de say it has more to do with not wanting to waste my professional time "educating" someone about my LEGITIMACY despite the positive attributes of Ostepathic Medicine. Notice I've said nothing to insult your profession. Funny, your comments remind me a bit of some of those arrogant MD students I know locally.


Too bad youve got a bit of an attitude Rock. Have fun showing your "stuff". Hope I'm never injured and have to deal with the likes of you.

BTW: Dentistry is in my family. Grew up with it. Yes, there are many stigmas attached with dentistry for sure. Suicide, couldnt be doctor etc ( kind of like do couldnt be Md etc.. ), etc.. I know all of them. However, its a different profession. Physicians dont treat the mouth and dentistry is very unique so these analogies are
eroneous though they will always exist.

 

[RockandRolldoc]

I don't know how you took offense to my post, but none was directed toward you at all. I have no self esteem problems buddy. I was simply pointing out the fact that just like you were set on dental from early on, there are those of us who didn't have to make a decision between D.O. or M.D. How are the D.O.'s by you 'restricted socially'? Are they not allowed into certain country clubs? Did a D.O. you know get picked last in a hospital kickball game? My whole point is that I don't feel I need to educate people in the medical profession about what a D.O. is, something they should at least have a bit of an understanding about. My legitimacy will come from my skills and from my loyal patients one day. As far as educating patient's go... I love telling people about osteopathic medicine, the beliefs behind it, and the benefits of it. Every single person in my life who has inquired to me about osteopathy has been more than pleased with my answer. A large part of medicine is education. You need to take the time to not only treat your patients but also suggest and educate them on ways to improve their health. Dentistry is no different. If you have no patience for this, you might want to look into another career. Again, I don't see how I took any shots at you personally, but If I hurt your feelings, I am sorry. As I stated before in my last post, I am friends with several dental students here and have nothing but respect for the field. As far as your shots at me... they are irrelevant to me. What you say is "attitude" is confidence and a little passion.

 

[supra624]

Yeah, I grew up around MDs but I chose DO because of its philosophy and OMM which MD schools lack. With my background and training in nutrition, DO fits me better. I thought about applying to MD schools but after learning more about osteopathic medicine, I changed my mind. I absolutely love everything about Osteopathic Medicine! I believe in the near future, any doubts people may have about DOs will disappear bc we future DOs will take over the world! (just kidding )
BTW, I graduated from Berkeley and currently I am a nutrition student at Yale. So, I think prestige has absolutely nothing to do with going DO or MD!

Proud to be part of COMP 2007!!!

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by supra624
I believe in the near future, any doubts people may have about DOs will disappear ...

I agree

How do you like CT? Ahh...home sweet home.

 

[SawBones]

Ahhh... 'Tis nice to see more and more DO students with sincere and positive motives for becoming a DO. RockAndRoll, your confidence and well-articulated response was much appreciated. We'd get along well, my friend. Glad to have you in our profession.

As for "being restricted socially," I can't wait to find out what that means. I'm visualizing a stout, greying MD reading The New York Times and looking over his bifocals to his balding colleague (with corn-stalk hairplugs) saying, "Why, Chaaaaaaarles, have you heard that an osteopath is trying to join our club?" To which his colleague replies, "Oh, Winston, what dribble. We can't have that a'tall. Let's rally the ole chaps, my good man, and snip this in the bud straight away. Oh yes, and please do stop spitting bits of cigar on my neck, that's a good lad." And finally, Charles replies, "Oh, pray forgive. And you know what else, my good man? I hear the osteopath only drives a BMW 5 series. I do declare, the man must be from steerage class." And then they exchange a nice, hardy laugh which turns into a wet, hacking cough. But fortunately they have their "M.D." embroidered handkerchiefs to wipe the warm sputum from their chins.

But that's just my visualization. Any others?

 

[Dr JPH]

Yeah, that's about right.

 

[mamadoc]

I also don't know what "restricted socially" means. There are very few DOs in my area but the ones that are here are just part of the crowd of physicians. One of my preceptors on my primary care rotation at an MD school was a DO. We've had DO lecturers, too.

Keep in mind that for the average person, who you choose as your doctor is determined by the list of participating physicians provided to you by your insurance, and so most people just pick a doc and are done with it!

The story about the "DO hospital" doesn't make much sense to me. Certainly if any of my relatives asked my impressions of which hospital to go to, I'd have places I'd recommend and places I wouldn't send my dog. But it would have virtually nothing to do with what doctors are on staff.... definitely nothing to do with whether those docs were DOs or MDs.... and almost everything to do with nursing staff ratios and skill.

Johndental, I am not sure you really wanted an answer to your question so much as you wanted to make a point.... I would respectfully suggest that you're not listening carefully. (for examaple, despite someone pointing out that the AMA does not have anything to do with the licensing of MD programs, you persist in referring to them as "AMA schools") I'm not sure you want to hear other views.

Your question was "why would you choose DO instead of MD?" I think people have given great answers. My question for you is, "Why don't you believe them?"

 

[supra624]

JPHazelton
Hey, I LOVE IT!!! It's been forever since we got snow before thanksgiving. I love the snow but I just hate the cold afterwards. what part of CT are you from? I love New Haven and all the fun restaurants in downtown. The only thing I hate is the weather... it is WAY too cold for a Cali girl! Cant stand the cold... so basically, I cant wait to move back to LA where the sun always shines. What are you doing in Philly?

 

[Toejam]

Here's what I think.

There are certainly some DO students who took their spots as a second choice because they couldn't get into MD school. There are probably some MD students who took their spots because they didn't get into DO school. The fact is that the average GPA's for admitted students for both types of schools are very similar. The MCAT's differ slightly.

For me, all things being equal (which they are for all intents and purposes) I'd rather go to DO school because they are generally populated with students who have relevant backgrounds and experiences vs. MD students who, generally, have stellar grades and MCAT's. I think I'll get a better experience overall with the DO group.

 

[SawBones]

Originally posted by Toejam

For me, all things being equal (which they are for all intents and purposes) I'd rather go to DO school because they are generally populated with students who have relevant backgrounds and experiences vs. MD students who, generally, have stellar grades and MCAT's. I think I'll get a better experience overall with the DO group.

Amen brother.

You know, I remember there was an "older premed student" (translated = 28 years old) in our program. I was a year ahead of him in the premed program and so he was always asking about professors and the like. Very early on I told him, "You're gonna be a DO, you realize that right?" He was struck by the comment and said, "What do you mean?" I replied, "Simple. You are well-rounded, ex-army, and over the age of 24. You are too old for MD schools so I think you'll ultimately become a DO." He laughed at the idea of a 28 year-old being "too old" and he simply said, "Whatever, we'll see."

We became good friends and my continually insisting that he would become a DO became a running joke between us for two years. Each time I made the comment, he would just laugh. After all, he had "stellar grades" so why would he ever end up in an osteopathic medical school? DO schools are for flunkies and poor test takers, right?

So before I left to start medical school I bid him farewell by presenting him with a copy of Gevitz's The DO's. I told him it would be good if he were familiar with his future profession. He laughed, and again went on his happy way of becoming an MD -- having now aced the MCAT. Combined with amazing extracurricular activities, including research and multiple leadership positions, he was the ideal medical school applicant. Just older.

I ran into him again three years later... when he joined my DO school as a first year medical student, a year behind me. Stellar grades, awesome MCAT... but just too darn old for MD schools I guess.

I bring this up because it is very true that many people become DOs because they were rejected from MD schools. But it is important to ask, why were they rejected? Too old? Too educated?

In my medical school class we have pharmacists, PhDs of all sorts, podiatrists, lawyers, and about 50 students with masters degrees. Basically, my class is very well educated. I've just become convinced that many MD schools are frightened by these applicants. Perhaps it is insecurity, I don't know. Maybe they don't want someone around that possibly knows more about a topic than one of the professors.

Fortunately, DO schools love experienced, mature applicants. And after seeing the types of doctors these individuals become, compared to their younger counterparts, I've become convinced that perhaps one of our profession's greatest strengths is actively seeking out these applicants.

 

[Toejam]

You got it right, SawBones

I'm a DPM with 3 years of practice experience. I also graduated UCLA with a degree in Japanese. Oh, and I'm 41 years old. Pretty atypical, huh? My background and experience is so damned eclectic and broad I probably scared the feces out of the MD admissions people.

I'm going to thrive in DO school. I think I would have felt like an interloper in MD school. I can't wait to interact with the nurses, PA's, EMT's, lawyers (my wife is a lawyer) and the other minions of the "other medical school". I can't wait to help my classmates with anything podiatry. And, I'm sure that I'll get some first hand information about the inner workings of nursing, EMT's, radiology techs and pharmacists. And, I would venture to guess that overall, the personality factor would be a bonus, too.

 

[looserdude]

Real story.

My Doctor: So, what school accepted you?
Me: UNECOM.
My Doctor: You are no more my patient because I hate Dr. Leo Lane across the street. He is a graduate at UNE, and he stole more than half of my patients...
Nurse: It's because Dr. Leo Lane is an MD with specialty in osteopathy.
Me: laughing...

 

[SawBones]

ToeJam, the Pods in my class were a TREMENDOUS help in Anatomy when we were dissecting the lower extremity. In lab, the DPMs often had a small group around them while they dissected and explained each muscle, tendon and vessel. You will definitely be an asset to your class.

 

[jkhamlin]

"Why would anyone want to go to DO school if they could gain admission to an AMA school and pursue an MD degree?"

One reason I want to be a DO is a recent personal experience. My wife had an injury at work dislocating some ribs causing her to have difficulty breathing. At the emergency room, the lone DO was off that day, and all the MDs there wanted to do was narc her up (with Ativan) and send her home in hopes it would correct itself in a few weeks. If not, they would recommend surgery. We refused such a preposterous treatment, and went to an urgent care which fortunately had two DOs on that day. A DO resident fixed the dislocation in a totally non invasive manner in about 3 minutes. He prescribed Flexeril and a couple of days rest. She recovered quickly, and went back to work. Months later, this same DO resident stitched up a laceration that my daughter received at day care. He could do everything an MD could do and things an MD could not do, and he was only a second year FP resident. Most importantly, he used the most effective and least invasive treatments available with modern medicine, the only difference is which type of doctor those treatments are available to.

"However, It seems to me that DO schools are for people who cant get into AMA schools."

Why, then, according to Kaplan is it "more competitive to get into osteopathic schools?" (Lofftus 42)

Lofftus, Maria. "Medical School Admissions Advisor." Kaplan, New York
1999.

The idea that DO schools are for those who didn't make the cut in MD schools is a mathematical incongruity. The mere 19 DO schools take all the overflow from the hundreds of MD schools?

"why would you always want to be explaining your degree?"

You have to have self esteem and be internally motivated not externally driven. I believe one reason so many osteopathic students are "older" is that the self worth and drive it takes usually becomes stronger with age and maturity. It is a psychological fact that most people into their twenties base what they do on their perception of others' opinions of them.

JMHO

 

[kristenE]

"How are the D.O.'s by you 'restricted socially'? Are they not allowed into certain country clubs? Did a D.O. you know get picked last in a hospital kickball game?"


Thats pretty good!!! I'll just add "social ******" to my list of reasons on why I want to become a D.O.!!

 

[RuralMedicine]

John,

One of our OMM chairs used to remind us that DO does not equal MD + PT. I challenge you to keep a slightly open mind and consider that perhaps DO also doesn't equal I couldn't get an MD. As a graduate of an Ivy league undergraduate university (one of several in my medical school class actually) I received acceptances from both allopathic and osteopathic schools. I chose to attend an osteopathic medical school and it's a choice I would make again.

Admittedly now as a resident in a top allopathic university program I am a minority but definitely not the only DO. Yes I was trained a little differently but I am comfortable that that is a good thing. I'm appreciative of the opportunities I have had, and continue to have. I'm proud to be a DO and at this point couldn't imagine being a MD. No MDs are not bad, some of my best friends are MDs and some of my best friends are DOs. The reality is that life is what you make of it. I went to an osteopathic medical school because I thought it would provide me with excellent opportunities. It did.

 

[aquaboy]

Originally posted by RuralMedicine
John,

I received acceptances from both allopathic and osteopathic schools. I chose to attend an osteopathic medical school and it's a choice I would make again.

If you don't mind my asking what school did you attend and what allopathic schools were you accepted to? I'm glad you're happy with your decision! It shouldn't be a question of the letters after you name but what school meshes with your personality.