Lets get the other end of it too. The other thread covers why nurses hate med students....so why do med students hate nurses ?(other than hating nurses because nurses hate them...)
Why do medical students/residents/attendings hate nurses?
- Thread starter Kince
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Kince said:
I don't hate nurses. I'm married to one.
It's important to get along with everyone in the health care team. This will benefit patients and make the day go by faster!
My ex-girlfriend was a nurse. She beat it into my head, to be nice to the nurses. I took her advice and it made third and fourth year much easier, and made many new friends.
They can make life so much easier by asking if you would like to leave a tylenol prn order, or call you at 3 in the morning asking for 2 tabs.
They can make life so much easier by asking if you would like to leave a tylenol prn order, or call you at 3 in the morning asking for 2 tabs.
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Hmm I don't think this is true... I'm a recent grad didn't start working as a nurse yet ... but I found that as a nursing student the medical students to be personable and extremely willing to ask for help or opinions even though they knew I was also a student...
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I have to add something here... I am a recent nurse grad who has entered the field of nursing. The thing that startled me most as a student was this whole world of doctors vs nurses. I had only two docs be short/rude to me and this was easily resolved. I loved the residents and they treated me with respect and continue to do so. The most amazing thing that I learned through school was that the techs teach the student nurses, the nurses teach the residents. We all have tricks of the trade to learn - it doesnt matter what education degree the teacher possess - just that they possess that valued information.
Additionally, I received more heat from the nurses on the floor. I was more prone to talk to residents than some of the nurses. But then again, I was a student nurse who was working under THEIR license and they were trying to ensure that I didn't jepordize that through a careless fault.
I am proud to say that I am a nurse and even more proud to be working in an institution that has a vast amount of residents, student nurses and seasoned staff all working closely together for one goal = to maintain and support the health of our patients. We all came into to this field for the patients. If we all remember that and remember to smile - then everything is just peachy keen.
Additionally, I received more heat from the nurses on the floor. I was more prone to talk to residents than some of the nurses. But then again, I was a student nurse who was working under THEIR license and they were trying to ensure that I didn't jepordize that through a careless fault.
I am proud to say that I am a nurse and even more proud to be working in an institution that has a vast amount of residents, student nurses and seasoned staff all working closely together for one goal = to maintain and support the health of our patients. We all came into to this field for the patients. If we all remember that and remember to smile - then everything is just peachy keen.
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Nurses rule. Our seasoned faculty treat our experienced nurses as colleagues; heck, almost family. Nobody with an attitude survives the clowning, whatever their title or degree. Nobody who plays well with others will be left hanging.
Additionally, if I needed my appendix (or a protruding parking meter) removed from my abdomen, I would trust our docs. They rule also. But if I was just generally sick or messed up, I would trust our RNs to provide excellent care, and they'd be able to take a lot more time doing it
Additionally, if I needed my appendix (or a protruding parking meter) removed from my abdomen, I would trust our docs. They rule also. But if I was just generally sick or messed up, I would trust our RNs to provide excellent care, and they'd be able to take a lot more time doing it
Let me preface this by saying that I don't have a problem with nurses in general, but a problem with the lack of respect certain nurses have for medical students..... but when the MS III (myself), resident, and intern are seated at the nurse's station discussing the team's patients, it is inappropriate and uncalled for a nurse to approach the student and tell her that she needs the chair the student is currently seated in, proceed to roll it to the other side of the table, and sit down to do her charting, while leaving the student squatting at the table for the rest of the team discussion.... I'll keep my mouth shut and give up my chair, so as to not rock the boat, but I'm really gritting my teeth and cursing said nurse in my head. Whatever happened to common courtesy?
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Yes, but... (emphasis mine)
Courtesy is always important, and there is always time for it. I agree that the situation was handled poorly. But I don't think it's indicative of any special animosity from RN to student. However, it's likely that since you're the rotating student, you a) worked a shorter shift that day than the grouchy RN, and/or b) got to move on and work somewhere else within a few weeks. Your status as a student didn't make you less deserving of respect, but it did make you the logical person to boot, if booting was to be done. Don't read too much into it.
If I'm doing my ED Tech thing during a case and there are people in my way, they move. If I decide I can work around them, and still reach the phone/computer/paperwork/blood tubes, I'll let staff and residents from other services stand in my little zone of the floor. Students just plain move. They're learning, but they're not helping. I'm nice about it... the first couple times. And when I'm the student, I'll expect no less. Part of what newbies should learn is how a department functions. You did the right thing, and your impulse to go with the flow was the right one, and that's a good skill to have. Many people - in all the various roles - just fail to get it.
Adversity is good for us. Standing when you're tired prepares you for the practice of medicine. If you don't have Dansko clogs or something like them, go shopping now. (And disclaimer: I work in an ED, so sitting down at all is a luxury.)
I suspect you got the bad end of the snippy stick only because the RN couldn't very well boot the G-1 or the resident out of a chair. He or she probably wanted to whomp all of you with something heavy, but you were the target of choice.debvz said:
Courtesy is always important, and there is always time for it. I agree that the situation was handled poorly. But I don't think it's indicative of any special animosity from RN to student. However, it's likely that since you're the rotating student, you a) worked a shorter shift that day than the grouchy RN, and/or b) got to move on and work somewhere else within a few weeks. Your status as a student didn't make you less deserving of respect, but it did make you the logical person to boot, if booting was to be done. Don't read too much into it.
If I'm doing my ED Tech thing during a case and there are people in my way, they move. If I decide I can work around them, and still reach the phone/computer/paperwork/blood tubes, I'll let staff and residents from other services stand in my little zone of the floor. Students just plain move. They're learning, but they're not helping. I'm nice about it... the first couple times. And when I'm the student, I'll expect no less. Part of what newbies should learn is how a department functions. You did the right thing, and your impulse to go with the flow was the right one, and that's a good skill to have. Many people - in all the various roles - just fail to get it.
Adversity is good for us. Standing when you're tired prepares you for the practice of medicine. If you don't have Dansko clogs or something like them, go shopping now. (And disclaimer: I work in an ED, so sitting down at all is a luxury.)
"Adversity is good for us. Standing when you're tired prepares you for the practice of medicine. If you don't have Dansko clogs or something like them, go shopping now. (And disclaimer: I work in an ED, so sitting down at all is a luxury.)"
Agreed....though my clogs don't go well with dress pants. Sitting is a luxury on medicine service too, since my patients are usually spread among floors 3, 7, 9, and 10, and I rarely see the inside of an elevator during my 12+ hrs on my feet running between floors. Elevators are too slow, and waiting for them would be a waste of too much valuable time.
And as for your above emphasis, the "nurse's station" is not a preferential seating area for nurses. They are the primary work area at our hospital for drs, pa's, students, respiratory techs, etc as well. That being said, seating is on a first-come first served basis, unless it is obvious one had just gotten up from and is returning to the seat, as evidenced by open chart or paperwork in front of said seat. In such a case, I will gladly vacate that seat so its previous user can return. I'm just glad that the internet access at the computer terminals has now been limited to medical/.edu sites only, so we don't have to wait for support staff to finish opening their email or surfing the net for us to check our patients' labs... but that's another gripe altogether...
Agreed....though my clogs don't go well with dress pants. Sitting is a luxury on medicine service too, since my patients are usually spread among floors 3, 7, 9, and 10, and I rarely see the inside of an elevator during my 12+ hrs on my feet running between floors. Elevators are too slow, and waiting for them would be a waste of too much valuable time.
And as for your above emphasis, the "nurse's station" is not a preferential seating area for nurses. They are the primary work area at our hospital for drs, pa's, students, respiratory techs, etc as well. That being said, seating is on a first-come first served basis, unless it is obvious one had just gotten up from and is returning to the seat, as evidenced by open chart or paperwork in front of said seat. In such a case, I will gladly vacate that seat so its previous user can return. I'm just glad that the internet access at the computer terminals has now been limited to medical/.edu sites only, so we don't have to wait for support staff to finish opening their email or surfing the net for us to check our patients' labs... but that's another gripe altogether...
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Febrifuge said:Heh heh. I love that "Text Twist" game on Yahoo!... I won't say where I learned about it.
Okay, now this may be true of some staff, but not all. You need to understand that as a nurse, we have several patients who we are responsible for at all times. We are frequently passing medications (and double checking your work if we feel they may not be right, because we will loose OUR license if it is wrong), assessing their condition/s constantly and doing so much charting that we have writer's cramp in the middle of our shift. True, some nurses may hop onto the net during a BREAK or during lunch to destress our tired and overworked minds. I would like to challenge you to empty a colostomy bag umpteen times, have the patient in room 4 puke on you, have to spend 45 minutes trying to convince an extremely confused patient to take their medications, monitoring your ETOH dependent patient for seizures and at the same time trying to complete nearly 30 pages of charting for all of them. When you get a chance for a break, you need something that will remove you from that situation if not for just five minutes.
I personally do not play internet games at work and the only email I check is that through my hospital. And BTW - I am REQUIRED to check my work email a minimum of 3 times a day.
Please respect the nurses that work WITH you. The people we care for are not only our patients - they become a part of our lives. We know every bump and bruise on their body, we know their families names, and even they animals. We go to their funerals and weddings. We do not just care for them, but we are the liason for our patient to the rest of the health care team. Please, if you learn nothing else during your education, learn that nurses are very integral to the health care team and NEED to be respected as such.
Thank you.
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Well said NurseDaisy! Check out my post at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1500536&postcount=62 . I had to address this same issue to some misinformed posters at this thread. Can you believe it? Some posters thought that the nurses role was to function as a physician's personal secretary. That is just laughable 
Check out my post at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1500536&postcount=62 . I had to address this same issue to some misinformed posters at this thread. Can you believe it? Some posters thought that the nurses role was to function as a physician's personal secretary. That is just laughable
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Guys, guys, guys... relax. I was speaking from a place of understanding and affection. The RN's I work with are top-notch, and will of course ditch the momentary diversion of whatever little mental vacation they're on the moment a patient needs care. I work in an emergency department in a fairly big city; we're the biggest of the three Level Ones in the area, and we get about 90,000 patient visits a year not counting Urgent Care.
Please don't flip into defensive mode and talk about "loosing" licenses or run down the list of gross job duties. That lumps me in with the ignorant jerks who think nurses are secretaries.
I absolutely respect everyone I work with, until they give me a reason not to. That's the same sort of code that we all live and work by, which is why we are a good team. The sermonizing about how much "it's not just a job" and "they're like family" raises my hackles a little, but that's my bias as an emergency care provider. You need a little more professionalism and detachment than that if you're going to be effective and able to hang in there over the long run.
I learned that from the veteran RNs who also taught me to draw blood, remove IVs, assist with procedures, make beds, and yes, wipe butts.
Please don't flip into defensive mode and talk about "loosing" licenses or run down the list of gross job duties. That lumps me in with the ignorant jerks who think nurses are secretaries.
I absolutely respect everyone I work with, until they give me a reason not to. That's the same sort of code that we all live and work by, which is why we are a good team. The sermonizing about how much "it's not just a job" and "they're like family" raises my hackles a little, but that's my bias as an emergency care provider. You need a little more professionalism and detachment than that if you're going to be effective and able to hang in there over the long run.
I learned that from the veteran RNs who also taught me to draw blood, remove IVs, assist with procedures, make beds, and yes, wipe butts.
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Febrifuge said:
Febrifuge:
I do appreciate your attitude towards the fact that we can all learn from each other. I myself work in a critical care unit that is highly respected throughout the nation for the specific type of patients that we care for.
Both the nurses and doctors become attached to the patients - but the mark of a truly thoughtful and great MD is one who doesnt look at just the patients as family, but also as their nursing staff.
There is something you must understand - and being as you do show empathy and respect for nurses; this is mainly for any other MD or med student who is reading this: Nurses and Doctors have been butting heads for a very long time. We as nurses have been trying to separate ourselves from the image that we are the doctor's secretary and as the hot little vixen in a tight white dress. The general public views us this way, and it is really hard when other members of the healthcare team exhibit these same sentiments. We too have gone to school for quite a long time. We too have earned a college degree. We know all of the same medications, the same diagnosis, the same procedures and the same way of helping patients. However, we do it differently. True, your education grants you permission to write prescriptions for which you must know many different variables about their conition in order to do so and you can present the patient with a formal diagnosis.
But please, as Med Students, do not fall into a trap thinking that nurses are just old "battleaxes" and that we are here merely to fulfill your orders. If you treat me with respect - then you will have mine as well.
Thank you and have a nice day.
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missRN2be said:Well said NurseDaisy!
LOL missRN2be. Got somethin' for ya.
Risk for irritation due to lack of respect secondary to studentdoctor.net as evidenced by repetitive negative postings about nurses, frequent debates between med students and nurses and the general lack of maturity when the conversations get going.
Hope you enjoy that as much as I did formulating it.
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As I have stated before - I have nothing against residents. Today, one of our long term patients was having debridement of a very major surgery.
He is pretty young and is not well aware of what is going on with his care. The nursing staff and doctors frequently teach him about what surgeries to expect, what is currently going on and why.
Unfortunately, during his debridement today, there were several people watching. Not only did this make him nervous, but it also inhibited our ability to do our job due to lack of space.
Here is my advice (begging if u will). Two residents were redressing his wounds with a new procedure unknown to him. He was pretty nervous and scared already and had no idea what was going on. I went ahead and prodded the residents to explain why and what was going on.
In my education, it is drilled into our heads that we must always explain to our patients what we are doing and why every step of the way. Please, as residents, as med students, as doctors - even if you are taking a temperature on your patient - TELL HIM WHY. Is it routine? Is there a concern? I was so saddened to see my patient lying on the table scared, confused and unsure about what was being done.
There is nothing worse than a patient receiving care and not knowing why. If you taking nothing else from what us nurses post on this website - take this = PATIENT EDUCATION IS EVERYTHING.
Thank you.
- NurseDaisy
He is pretty young and is not well aware of what is going on with his care. The nursing staff and doctors frequently teach him about what surgeries to expect, what is currently going on and why.
Unfortunately, during his debridement today, there were several people watching. Not only did this make him nervous, but it also inhibited our ability to do our job due to lack of space.
Here is my advice (begging if u will). Two residents were redressing his wounds with a new procedure unknown to him. He was pretty nervous and scared already and had no idea what was going on. I went ahead and prodded the residents to explain why and what was going on.
In my education, it is drilled into our heads that we must always explain to our patients what we are doing and why every step of the way. Please, as residents, as med students, as doctors - even if you are taking a temperature on your patient - TELL HIM WHY. Is it routine? Is there a concern? I was so saddened to see my patient lying on the table scared, confused and unsure about what was being done.
There is nothing worse than a patient receiving care and not knowing why. If you taking nothing else from what us nurses post on this website - take this = PATIENT EDUCATION IS EVERYTHING.
Thank you.
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Febrifuge said:
The student deserves the chair as much as the RN does. The RN should do what I do when a chair isn't available: find a counter and chart standing up. I did it all the time as a medical student, and I'm sure I'll continue it as a resident.
Regarding students in your little zone, if I don't have a specific reason to be "in the zone" then you won't catch me in there. The first rule I learned as a medical student was not to do extraordinary things, but simply not to get in anyone's way and hinder progress.
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I'd say, I'd have to agree with you on that one. I don't know if it's because we (SNs) are always told that when we do our rotations, we are, in essence, in their way (docs and nurses). The hospital made an agreement with the school to allow us to do our rotations there. The hospital staff are employees and are not paid to train us or be nice to us. And many of them will let you know in a heartbeat. So naturally we tend to try and stay out of the way, and thank the heavens when our teamleader is nice.
All in all, if I was asked to relinquish my chair by an RN, or a doc, I wouldn't have gotten offended, b/c they obviously need it for something (i.e., charting, making calls, maybe it's their seat, maybe they've been working non-stop for the past 12 hours and they're tired , I don't know). I can find another one and it does me no good to sit and ponder why they took "my" seat, I have better things to do (i.e., check on my patients, assess, chart, learn another procedure, or whatever).
On the other hand, if you feel that someone is being spiteful, you are probably right. I don't know what it its, but the healthcare field often produces some very angry and uptight people. These same people feel that they need an outlet, and will take it out on anyone they feel is "under" them. The important thing to do, is grow a thick skin, stick up for yourself , and remember why your there in the first place (for the patient). That should help to cool you off and keep your BP within normal limits
All in all, if I was asked to relinquish my chair by an RN, or a doc, I wouldn't have gotten offended, b/c they obviously need it for something (i.e., charting, making calls, maybe it's their seat, maybe they've been working non-stop for the past 12 hours and they're tired
, I don't know). I can find another one and it does me no good to sit and ponder why they took "my" seat, I have better things to do (i.e., check on my patients, assess, chart, learn another procedure, or whatever). On the other hand, if you feel that someone is being spiteful, you are probably right. I don't know what it its, but the healthcare field often produces some very angry and uptight people. These same people feel that they need an outlet, and will take it out on anyone they feel is "under" them. The important thing to do, is grow a thick skin, stick up for yourself , and remember why your there in the first place (for the patient). That should help to cool you off and keep your BP within normal limits
southerndoc said:
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SNs) are always told that when we do our rotations, we are, in essence, in their way (docs and nurses). The hospital made an agreement with the school to allow us to do our rotations there. The hospital staff are employees and are not paid to train us or be nice to us.
However, with regard to medical students, this is not the case. Most of us are at teaching hospitals where part of the attendings job description is to train us. We are not to be considered in the way, we are there to learn and paying a significant amount to do so. We are also trying to learn as much as we can so that some day we can step into the shoes of the resident and the attending.
As for nurses, I treat them with respect from the start. But I believe that someone can lose that respect. If you are the only person who can get my patient with oral mucocutaneous sloughing a yankeur suction cath from the pyxis and my job cannot be done until you get me one, because you are the only one with access to the pyxis, then I will stand there and wait for you to do so. And if I know for a fact you are not on your break, yet you are sitting there looking at professional wrestling on the internet and making me wait for no reason except that I'm not a high enough priority, then you're going to lose my respect. Or if my patient is sitting in feces and weighs three hundred pounds, yet needs to be taken down to an emergent surgery, don't sit on the phone and continue to talk about your daughter's dance recital, then put your hand over the phone, and say, you can change him. Yes, well, I would have, if I had access to the freaking pyxis to get what I needed. And if you are the nurse monitoring the telemetry beds, by all means talk on the phone all day long, so that when I am sitting on the computer next to you I can hear all about your children as you tell the same story to each relative that calls YOU at the hospital. Then when I need the phone to page a resident about a lab value, get angry at ME because you were using the hospitals phone for a personal call while working. Then act miffed when someone wants a printout of the tele strip or for you to pull up the wave form on someone with an abnormal rhythm. ALL of these reasons are why medical students dislike SOME nurses. We are assigned a patient or patients to take care of and a treatment plan is formulated by the team. Most of the time we are just trying to make sure a treatment plan is carried out to optimize treatment for the patient. Our ultimate goal is to get the patient better, but we are limited in what we can do. I could save a lot of time if I had access to a pyxis or the store room where everything is held, but at our hospital if you need anything, an order must be written and the NURSE has to get it. By all means, give me your pyxis code and I won't bother you one bit
However, with regard to medical students, this is not the case. Most of us are at teaching hospitals where part of the attendings job description is to train us. We are not to be considered in the way, we are there to learn and paying a significant amount to do so. We are also trying to learn as much as we can so that some day we can step into the shoes of the resident and the attending.
As for nurses, I treat them with respect from the start. But I believe that someone can lose that respect. If you are the only person who can get my patient with oral mucocutaneous sloughing a yankeur suction cath from the pyxis and my job cannot be done until you get me one, because you are the only one with access to the pyxis, then I will stand there and wait for you to do so. And if I know for a fact you are not on your break, yet you are sitting there looking at professional wrestling on the internet and making me wait for no reason except that I'm not a high enough priority, then you're going to lose my respect. Or if my patient is sitting in feces and weighs three hundred pounds, yet needs to be taken down to an emergent surgery, don't sit on the phone and continue to talk about your daughter's dance recital, then put your hand over the phone, and say, you can change him. Yes, well, I would have, if I had access to the freaking pyxis to get what I needed. And if you are the nurse monitoring the telemetry beds, by all means talk on the phone all day long, so that when I am sitting on the computer next to you I can hear all about your children as you tell the same story to each relative that calls YOU at the hospital. Then when I need the phone to page a resident about a lab value, get angry at ME because you were using the hospitals phone for a personal call while working. Then act miffed when someone wants a printout of the tele strip or for you to pull up the wave form on someone with an abnormal rhythm. ALL of these reasons are why medical students dislike SOME nurses. We are assigned a patient or patients to take care of and a treatment plan is formulated by the team. Most of the time we are just trying to make sure a treatment plan is carried out to optimize treatment for the patient. Our ultimate goal is to get the patient better, but we are limited in what we can do. I could save a lot of time if I had access to a pyxis or the store room where everything is held, but at our hospital if you need anything, an order must be written and the NURSE has to get it. By all means, give me your pyxis code and I won't bother you one bit
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However, with regard to medical students, this is not the case. Most of us are at teaching hospitals where part of the attendings job description is to train us. We are not to be considered in the way, we are there to learn and paying a significant amount to do so. We are also trying to learn as much as we can so that some day we can step into the shoes of the resident and the attending.
Ok, first of all, I did not mean to lead you to believe that student nurses are not at the hospitals to learn. If this was your impression, I apologize. I was simply referring to the fact that it is not the nurse's job, nor the "attending" physician to teach us. It is our clinical instructor's job to teach us procedures, and supervise us the first time we attempt to do a new one. After the first, you pretty much need to get it the first time, because if you don't you will most likely be labeled as someone who needs hand-holding. Most nurses are nice, and will kind of walk you through it, but all I'm saying is that I'm not going to have hurt feelings if a nurse (other than my clinical instructor) doesn't want to help me, because I've noticed that some people just don't know the meaning of teamwork. If I'm looking at a chart or a MAR, and a nurse or doctor needs to take a look, I'll be stepping out of the way, until they are finished. I don't know how your school operates (does the nurse move, so that med students can take a look at the chart?), but mine states clearly that we are to learn as much as we can, when we can, without being in the way of progress.
As to whether a doc or a nurse is surfing the web or on the phone talking to their loved-ones, I really don't give a d@mn. That's not the business of why I'm here, and I'm not the DON or CNO. If they want to try and make my life miserable, by taking "my chair," "go 'head and have it, I'll find another one, and get my work done for the day." In addition, it would be presumptuous of me to think they cared about my level of respect for them
. All in all, no one has time to fret over the idiosyncrocies of the staff. At the end of the day, you are there to take care of the patients. So if one nurse (or others) is hindering you from getting your work done, you need to take the proper steps to address this issue. Talk to your resident and attending and see if they have any solutions. They might speak with the nurse manager or DON, and have the issue resolved internally. As for the pyxis, I had no idea that student docs did not have access where you are. That's kind of ****ty. If you are going to be providing care, and the equipment that you need is in there, then you should have access. Do you know why you don't have access? If you don't, I would definitely ask, and see if the teaching hospital responsible for training you, would grant you access.
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Oh by the way:
I totally understand your disdain toward some RNs. Those same RNs are the ones that also "eat their young." I don't know if you've heard of this term before. They will be as unhelpful to you as they are to SNs (sometimes they can be downright rude and sarcastic). The only thing you can do is, calmly and nicely bring it to their attention that: you, as well as they, are there to provide quality healthcare to the patients. So if s/he would be so kind as to print the telemetry strip, or access the pyxis (or whatever), you could do your job. You kind of have to lay the guilt on thick in a nice way, so they get the hint, and you haven't lost your cool. That way, you remain the bigger person, without reverting back to kindergarten like s/he did.
I totally understand your disdain toward some RNs. Those same RNs are the ones that also "eat their young." I don't know if you've heard of this term before. They will be as unhelpful to you as they are to SNs (sometimes they can be downright rude and sarcastic). The only thing you can do is, calmly and nicely bring it to their attention that: you, as well as they, are there to provide quality healthcare to the patients. So if s/he would be so kind as to print the telemetry strip, or access the pyxis (or whatever), you could do your job. You kind of have to lay the guilt on thick in a nice way, so they get the hint, and you haven't lost your cool. That way, you remain the bigger person, without reverting back to kindergarten like s/he did.
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firstly.. wasn't this thread supposed to be about why med students etc hate nurses???? haha.. but that aside..
i am a nursing student.. from what i have seen while out on clinical, there are some nurses who seem to have this attitude whereby they feel the need to constantly retell anecdotes about "how stupid this doc was" etc etc.. to me, it just seems like they are over-compensating for their feelings of inadequacy (whatever they may be) by trying to big-note themselves. maybe they have had a few bad experiences. but it's not very professional to go around bagging out your colleagues, past or present...................... ((and they never add the bit about the mistake they made to contribute to the problem, including speaking badly to the doc or whoever it may be))
i just haven't quite worked out why some people still have the elitist thing going on while others realise that we are all fully-functioning, contributing members of the health care team and without each profession, it would be incomplete.. FANCY THAT!!!!!!!!!!!
i am a nursing student.. from what i have seen while out on clinical, there are some nurses who seem to have this attitude whereby they feel the need to constantly retell anecdotes about "how stupid this doc was" etc etc.. to me, it just seems like they are over-compensating for their feelings of inadequacy (whatever they may be) by trying to big-note themselves. maybe they have had a few bad experiences. but it's not very professional to go around bagging out your colleagues, past or present...................... ((and they never add the bit about the mistake they made to contribute to the problem, including speaking badly to the doc or whoever it may be))
i just haven't quite worked out why some people still have the elitist thing going on while others realise that we are all fully-functioning, contributing members of the health care team and without each profession, it would be incomplete..
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Hi Chickie
If you have time to post,
You should definitely read the thread. You'll see that it pretty much flows: questions are answered, assumptions are corrected, and the topic has remained consistent with the subject of the thread.
Thanks
missRN2be
If you have time to post,
chickie said:
You should definitely read the thread. You'll see that it pretty much flows: questions are answered, assumptions are corrected, and the topic has remained consistent with the subject of the thread.
Thanks
missRN2be
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any student ANY student that doesnt get out of a chair when a working professional needs it would get pounded in my er. Students, be it md/do/pa/np/rn or whatever are IN THE WAY. They should be humble and grateful. Get the hell up -- or get the hell out. Arrogant arrogant arrogant.
Bandit said:
Who's to say that a medical student isn't working? Just because med students don't get paid doesn't mean they're not doing a job/service for the patients on their team. This is exactly the sort of attitude that makes teamwork difficult.
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So, if a volunteer was sitting in a chair and a doctor needed it, should the doctor go find another one since the volunteer is working?
I tend to agree with Bandit. If you are a volunteer or a student (of any sort), you are there to learn, you may not necessarily have the knowledge of a care provider that is hired on by the hospital. You do not have a license, therefore you are working under the licenses of the staff and the hospital. Therefore, it is courteous and wise to relinquish your seat and get over it.
I tend to agree with Bandit. If you are a volunteer or a student (of any sort), you are there to learn, you may not necessarily have the knowledge of a care provider that is hired on by the hospital. You do not have a license, therefore you are working under the licenses of the staff and the hospital. Therefore, it is courteous and wise to relinquish your seat and get over it.
debvz said:
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In these posts as well in the real life - the chair issue is a big one. Hospitals typically do not make nurse's station big enough or with enough sitting room. This is usually because they expect us to be doing patient care 24/7.
When i was a student nurse, if I was sitting down charting - I would not offer my seat. However, if I was sitting down to ease my barking dogs; if a staff member came to the nurses station I would offer my seat. As students, we typically do not work more than 6 hours on the floor. The staff however, works in excess of 10 hours a day.
As a nurse, I rarely get a chance to sit down - EVEN TO CHART. When I get a chance to sit down for a few minutes, these are so precious to me that I can not even begin to explain. But again, if someone needs that chair to do some charting on the computer, etc...I will relinquish my seat. This could possibly be explained by the golden rule.
And there is something you must understand. Sometimes, you will have a patient that is so complex that you are always running around, frustrated out of your mind, and you never have to time to take a break let alone chart. You become beaten both emotionally and physically. With those kind of days and those kind of patients, when you get a chance to sit down a for a few minutes, you have got to have a crowbar to get me out of a seat before my five minutes is over. I dont mean to sound snotty, but unless you need that seat to do a lifesaving procedure, then you can pretty much wait until that five minutes is over.
Nurse Daisy
When i was a student nurse, if I was sitting down charting - I would not offer my seat. However, if I was sitting down to ease my barking dogs; if a staff member came to the nurses station I would offer my seat. As students, we typically do not work more than 6 hours on the floor. The staff however, works in excess of 10 hours a day.
As a nurse, I rarely get a chance to sit down - EVEN TO CHART. When I get a chance to sit down for a few minutes, these are so precious to me that I can not even begin to explain. But again, if someone needs that chair to do some charting on the computer, etc...I will relinquish my seat. This could possibly be explained by the golden rule.
And there is something you must understand. Sometimes, you will have a patient that is so complex that you are always running around, frustrated out of your mind, and you never have to time to take a break let alone chart. You become beaten both emotionally and physically. With those kind of days and those kind of patients, when you get a chance to sit down a for a few minutes, you have got to have a crowbar to get me out of a seat before my five minutes is over. I dont mean to sound snotty, but unless you need that seat to do a lifesaving procedure, then you can pretty much wait until that five minutes is over.
Nurse Daisy
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I got along well with the vast majority of nurses, but some had an attitude that really annoyed me. I tried to do my best to be friendly, courteous, respectful, and when a nurse is rude to me back or treats me in a disrespecful manner I won't stand for it.
I found myself rude to nurses on three occasions. All three times, I apologized immediately afterwards and explained that my rudeness was due to the my frustration with a situation not caused by them. They appreciated that. Not once did i get an apology from a nurse who was rude to me.
The other thing that really pissed me off as an intern was that nurses did not seem to understand the hours and stresses involved with being an intern. NurseDaisy talks about 6 hour days for students or 10 hour days for nurses. A ten hour day to me as an intern was a dream. Most NON-CALL days were closer to 12 hours. Call days could run up to 30-35 hours staight. Most of those were without rest. You were running around with difficult patients for 6 hours straight. Try running around without time for lunch or dinner for 15 hours straight. Try getting paged q6minutes (I actually counted the number of pages from 4:30pm to 8:30pm and it averaged 1 page every 6 minutes). When you page us at 2am to change the frequency of vitals or choose a diet for a patient, you have to realize we are not working a night shift, we are still working from 7am the prior morning.
I found myself rude to nurses on three occasions. All three times, I apologized immediately afterwards and explained that my rudeness was due to the my frustration with a situation not caused by them. They appreciated that. Not once did i get an apology from a nurse who was rude to me.
The other thing that really pissed me off as an intern was that nurses did not seem to understand the hours and stresses involved with being an intern. NurseDaisy talks about 6 hour days for students or 10 hour days for nurses. A ten hour day to me as an intern was a dream. Most NON-CALL days were closer to 12 hours. Call days could run up to 30-35 hours staight. Most of those were without rest. You were running around with difficult patients for 6 hours straight. Try running around without time for lunch or dinner for 15 hours straight. Try getting paged q6minutes (I actually counted the number of pages from 4:30pm to 8:30pm and it averaged 1 page every 6 minutes). When you page us at 2am to change the frequency of vitals or choose a diet for a patient, you have to realize we are not working a night shift, we are still working from 7am the prior morning.
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I have to give much respect to anyone who decides this path in life. I couldn't put my body through that much food and sleep deprivation even if I wanted to (I just stop functioning after 24 hours of no sleep/food ). I guess somebody's gotta do it...
). I guess somebody's gotta do it... Whisker Barrel Cortex said:
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Wow. I would never say that my education was the equivalent of what you studied in med school, but there was no need for that comment.
Whenever I read posts from med students/docs ranting about how dumb nurses are, I wonder who they entrust with following through with their orders. (Since we nurses would be too stupid to understand them, having spent our educations learning how to do poster presentations and make cookies.)
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fab4fan said:
i agree with you. that was a low blow. its a shame when people don't give nurses the credit they deserve for their knowledge. i can't tell you how many medical orders and mistakes i have caught. and you are exactly right ..if nurses are so dumb who do you trust with your orders? can you imagine the scenario if nurses were "dumb":
1. Oh, i'm sorry doctor i thought you meant 3 sl ntg every 5 minutes? the patients bp is 70/40? do you want another nitro?
2. after i gave k+ IVP for some reason the patient turned unresponsive
3. for some reason the chf patients lungs sound worse after i bolused him with 3L of NS
4. the lab called 4 hours ago. the patient with chest pain has a troponin of 0.15 i forgot to tell you. its not important anyway.
i don't have time to bake cookies.
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orthoman5000 said:
apology accepted. i for one, like medical students. everyone at some point in time will or has been a student. who am i to give them a hard time? i am generally a happy person and easy to get along with. i don't mind showing medical students things that other nurses feel "they should know". it doesn't matter how long you have been a nurse or doctor, we all are students whether we know it or not.
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Whiskey Barrel Person - First of all, I didnt mean to offend you being as you obviously work several hours in a row. I personally do not condone the amount of hours that you work and I feel that this is a horrible missuse of your education and what I call "slave labor". However, you also need to understand that some of those "un-needed pages" are quite needed.
What about the critical care patient whos status has become less critical? They need their sleep as well and if we come barging into their rooms every 15 minutes or so to take vitals that interrupts their sleep and actually causes more harm to the patient. And the diet? Have you ever been hospitalized and been on a clear liquid diet only? When they are able to have solid foods, you betcha that is pretty important to get started right away - not only to the patient, but also to the patient's health. I am so sorry if you are in the middle of more "important" issues at the moment, but you are emplyed for a reason - patient care. That involves something as irritating as switching the frequency of vitals.
And to address the issue of nursing school education brought up by someone else - I invite you personally to come to the school that I graduated from. Please, sit in on a lecture during ECG interpretation. Or hell, even one of the pharmacology classes. You feel that we have poster presentations? I am very sorry that you feel that our education is basically that of a glorified ass washer.
I do not mean to offend on this board. I do not have a problem with doctors or med students in general or even residents. I do however, have a problem with medical students, residents, and doctors who treat nurses as if they are their servants and that "meaniless" pages interrupt their schedule. The most blessed thing that has ever happened to ICU nurses is the eICU. This way, we can get ahold of a doctor at any hour of the night and not worry about being bitched at because our patient needs to have an aspect of their care changed.
I find it to be extremely sad that there is such discourse between these differening aspects of health care. We are here for our patients. Please remember that.
Additionally, I am quite serious about inviting you to visit my nursing school to attend a lecture. You are more than welcome to contact me and I will give you a date. Infact, I will even pay for your plane ticket. If this can change your mind about the quality of the nurses who work WITH you, then please, by all means, take me up on my offer.
Nurse Daisy
What about the critical care patient whos status has become less critical? They need their sleep as well and if we come barging into their rooms every 15 minutes or so to take vitals that interrupts their sleep and actually causes more harm to the patient. And the diet? Have you ever been hospitalized and been on a clear liquid diet only? When they are able to have solid foods, you betcha that is pretty important to get started right away - not only to the patient, but also to the patient's health. I am so sorry if you are in the middle of more "important" issues at the moment, but you are emplyed for a reason - patient care. That involves something as irritating as switching the frequency of vitals.
And to address the issue of nursing school education brought up by someone else - I invite you personally to come to the school that I graduated from. Please, sit in on a lecture during ECG interpretation. Or hell, even one of the pharmacology classes. You feel that we have poster presentations? I am very sorry that you feel that our education is basically that of a glorified ass washer.
I do not mean to offend on this board. I do not have a problem with doctors or med students in general or even residents. I do however, have a problem with medical students, residents, and doctors who treat nurses as if they are their servants and that "meaniless" pages interrupt their schedule. The most blessed thing that has ever happened to ICU nurses is the eICU. This way, we can get ahold of a doctor at any hour of the night and not worry about being bitched at because our patient needs to have an aspect of their care changed.
I find it to be extremely sad that there is such discourse between these differening aspects of health care. We are here for our patients. Please remember that.
Additionally, I am quite serious about inviting you to visit my nursing school to attend a lecture. You are more than welcome to contact me and I will give you a date. Infact, I will even pay for your plane ticket. If this can change your mind about the quality of the nurses who work WITH you, then please, by all means, take me up on my offer.
Nurse Daisy
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Here's a great joke for doctors and nurses alike:
A dead person was found on the side of the road. The police looked at the person and concluded right away they were a nurse.
How did they know?
They had a full bladder, an empty stomach and their ass completely chewed out.
Thought that was pretty funny.
Nurse Daisy
A dead person was found on the side of the road. The police looked at the person and concluded right away they were a nurse.
How did they know?
They had a full bladder, an empty stomach and their ass completely chewed out.
Thought that was pretty funny.
Nurse Daisy
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NurseDaisy said:
The problem stems from this:
Old attendings/physicians treated nurses like crap. The nurses in turn treated the med student/residents like crap. It's an never-ending cycle.
I say we stop this cycle now. All med students, residents, and attendings should treat nurses nicely and with respect. All nurses should treat students, residents, and attendings nicely and with respect.
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This is a funny thread. I think it started out as another one, which was "why do nurses hat med students", and someone decided to ask the obverse question.
To the OP, in 15 years I have witnessed nurses treating medical students very badly, but not the other way around. This is not because it doesn't exist, but because compared to "RN on Med student" abuse, "Med Students on RNs" is very very rare.
Residents however have been known to be short with nurses (and vice versa, especially with female residents).
The dynamic I think is this: med students are there to learn medicine, and are constantly under pressure to perform well in school to get good residencies. Their relations with nurses and other ancillary staff in the hospital are incidental and usually neutral - they don't worship nurses, but they don't hate them either. Nurses are peripheral to their world - not unimportant, but not terribly important either. They do what needs to be done to learn and get good evaluations. The people who are important to med students are the patients, the residents, and the attendings.
I think the dynamic with nurses is that they have tradiotionally perceived themselves to be undervalued by society and the medical hierarchy. Doctors and residents and medical students do not ?hate? nurses so much as they are often indifferent. This is not out of poor intentions. But because of this perception that they are not valued enough by society, nurses can be resentful of MDs. Open resentment of senior attendings is not ?permissible?, but treating medical students poorly will not often result in any repercussions. So it happens.
Residents "have arrived". For better or worse, the positions they are in are where they usually live out the final stretch of their long training. Their concern is more in tune with those of other people who work for their living: reasonable working conditions, pay, sleep/quality of life, professional satisfaction etc. The people who are important to residents are the people who impact these things: patients, attendings, ancillary workers (nurses, techs etc) and the other people who impact their work in hospitals.
The conflicts with nurses are almost entirely when nurses are perceived to impact on those things that "make my working day harder". High on the list is being harried with unnecessary pages, demands etc. Sure, it is important that a patient who doesn't need it shouldn't get vitals q1hr or whatever, and that nursing care needs have to be addressed - but why at 3.15 AM? From the on-call resident's point of view, that sort of thing could easily have been handled by the nurse at 4.00PM with the patient's resident/intern etc. This does not require brilliant minds, just common sense.
A page about any urgent or medically important matter at any time of the day and night is of course important - the residents aren't complaining about that (if they are they are wrong).
The other thing is that ancillary workers who do shift work often simply do not realize how hard MDs are worked. If you meet a post-call ICU resident in the hospital on Tuesday evening at 4.00PM, try to remember they have been working continuously, and very hard, since 6.00AM MOnday morning. In the two days that you have come to work, returned home, seen you kids, relaxed with your spouse, these people have been working non-stop. Take a moment and imagine you have just spent a day like that. What would you do if a nurse paged you just as you're finishing your 13th chart note, and said "hi, i just wanted to let you know that Mr. x's BP is 125/65".
A lot of the resentment can be prevented with more understanding of everyone's work demands - residents should know what nurses want before their end of shift rounds or whatever, etc and nurses vice versa.
To the OP, in 15 years I have witnessed nurses treating medical students very badly, but not the other way around. This is not because it doesn't exist, but because compared to "RN on Med student" abuse, "Med Students on RNs" is very very rare.
Residents however have been known to be short with nurses (and vice versa, especially with female residents).
The dynamic I think is this: med students are there to learn medicine, and are constantly under pressure to perform well in school to get good residencies. Their relations with nurses and other ancillary staff in the hospital are incidental and usually neutral - they don't worship nurses, but they don't hate them either. Nurses are peripheral to their world - not unimportant, but not terribly important either. They do what needs to be done to learn and get good evaluations. The people who are important to med students are the patients, the residents, and the attendings.
I think the dynamic with nurses is that they have tradiotionally perceived themselves to be undervalued by society and the medical hierarchy. Doctors and residents and medical students do not ?hate? nurses so much as they are often indifferent. This is not out of poor intentions. But because of this perception that they are not valued enough by society, nurses can be resentful of MDs. Open resentment of senior attendings is not ?permissible?, but treating medical students poorly will not often result in any repercussions. So it happens.
Residents "have arrived". For better or worse, the positions they are in are where they usually live out the final stretch of their long training. Their concern is more in tune with those of other people who work for their living: reasonable working conditions, pay, sleep/quality of life, professional satisfaction etc. The people who are important to residents are the people who impact these things: patients, attendings, ancillary workers (nurses, techs etc) and the other people who impact their work in hospitals.
The conflicts with nurses are almost entirely when nurses are perceived to impact on those things that "make my working day harder". High on the list is being harried with unnecessary pages, demands etc. Sure, it is important that a patient who doesn't need it shouldn't get vitals q1hr or whatever, and that nursing care needs have to be addressed - but why at 3.15 AM? From the on-call resident's point of view, that sort of thing could easily have been handled by the nurse at 4.00PM with the patient's resident/intern etc. This does not require brilliant minds, just common sense.
A page about any urgent or medically important matter at any time of the day and night is of course important - the residents aren't complaining about that (if they are they are wrong).
The other thing is that ancillary workers who do shift work often simply do not realize how hard MDs are worked. If you meet a post-call ICU resident in the hospital on Tuesday evening at 4.00PM, try to remember they have been working continuously, and very hard, since 6.00AM MOnday morning. In the two days that you have come to work, returned home, seen you kids, relaxed with your spouse, these people have been working non-stop. Take a moment and imagine you have just spent a day like that. What would you do if a nurse paged you just as you're finishing your 13th chart note, and said "hi, i just wanted to let you know that Mr. x's BP is 125/65".
A lot of the resentment can be prevented with more understanding of everyone's work demands - residents should know what nurses want before their end of shift rounds or whatever, etc and nurses vice versa.
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NurseDaisy said:
NurseDaisy said:
No one was suggesting that you are glorified ?ass washers?. What that poster was pointing out, quite rightly, is that you are completely wrong in saying ?we know all the same medications, the same diagnosis, the same procedures and the same way of helping patients?.
This should seem a simple point, and I don?t know why it is so often missed. If nurses learnt the same things as doctors, they will both go to the same schools.
But you do not learn the same pharmacology. You most certainly do not learn the same diagnoses ? I am surprised you even wrote that down. The pathology MDs study is simply entire orders of magnitude more advanced even when they are in school, not to mention residency.
The same procedures? So nurses do laparoscopic cholecystectomies and endoscopic transsphenoidal hypophysectomies in your nursing school? Perhaps someone should take you up on that offer to go see this amazing school.
What this does NOT mean is nurses are unimportant, or don?t know anything. Of course they are important, and of course they know many things. Patient care cannot happen without nurses. But in celebrating their obvious accomplishments and value, there is no need to claim that they are what they are not: doctors. Nurses know many things doctors don?t and they are important and integral for that ? their nursing expertise.
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That's one of the nicest things I have ever read about nurses here!
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orthoman5000 said:
I agree with that completely. Too many times in discussions like this folks say stuff like "Respect me, and I'll give you all the respect in the world."
Instead, just respect everybody right off the bat. It'll save everyone a lot of time figuring out who to respect.
B
Blade28
Old MD said:
Those are excellent points. What might be also lost in this interesting thread is the fact that us med students (or residents, or attendings) can also dislike other med students, residents and attendings! It's not all about hating RNs!
It all depends how one is treated...I also believe in common courtesy...the whole "giving up the chair" issue is a tough one, because if anyone (little kid, elderly patient, nurse, patient's family member, janitor, whoever) asked for my chair, I'm assuming there's a good reason. What am I going to say, "no"?
I've had mainly excellent experiences with the nurses I've worked with. I've run into more problems with residents and attendings (only a handful, mind you). I've been chewed out more by scrub techs than any other field. But sometimes what frustrates me and makes me feel misunderstood is when assumptions are made about my role, or my work hours, or this supposed "pecking order" or hierachy where med students are way, WAY down there. I've been yelled at quite a few times, for no reason other than the fact that the nurse was having a bad moment/shift/day (and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here)...of course, what do I do? Shrug it off, apologize, try to forget the incident. No one's ever apologized to me. On the other hand, I've said "I'm sorry" many, MANY times...not that hard to say, even when you're not in the wrong.
I've also experienced that scenario where a nurse will assume that I worked some kind of 10-/12-/14-hour shift, just because I'm up at 4 in the morning. Or that if I'm working at 7 am, I must have just punched in, and therefore the night shift nurses have free rein to yell at me, because they're more tired, need to finish their work so they can go home, have been up for the past 12 hours, etc. Again, I sympathize with their plight (any of us in the health care industry have paid our dues), but please don't assume the worst and start chewing my ear off because of it.
Edit: I should add, when properly cultivated, the relationship between nurse and med student/resident/attending (or any two health care professionals, for that matter) can be awesome for both sides! You can share tips on patient care (from different perspectives), discuss management and treatments options (and thus both people can further their knowledge for the future)...hell, even share food, snacks, pharmaceutical gifts, gossip, etc.
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I would like to comment on the whole eduction disparity bewteen nurses and MD's. As a RN (diploma grad) for 20 + years, a undergraduate degree in Chemistry, BSN, Masters in Anesthesia and a CRNA who was educated, yes EDUCATED in a DO medical school..yes took the same physiology and pharmacology courses, anatomy courses ect..who do you think were at the top of the bell curve when it came to grades in classes ? Its not about being a MD or a RN or whatever the hell you want to call yourself its about the initiative to educate yourself and keep current. Just because im a RN with a CRNA does not mean im stupid and dont have the education a physician has in the sciences. What happened to clinical experience and gaining insight and vision from working with the critically ill ?? Is it really so much better that a spoiled med student who has never worked a day in their life is so much superior then someone who doesnt go to med school?? No im not just a technician, I have a brain, I can make intelligent decisions on my own..why does everyone automatically assume I want to go to med school and be a doctor ?? Yes all you MD's and wannabees out there you are not at the top of the food chain you only think you are and you should really be grateful for everyone who helps you or saves your ass when your home sleeping or golfing. BTW anesthesia is the practice of NURSING not Medicine. Seacrest Outtttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt !
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Could someone arrange for Tinker Bell here to take the USMLE Step 1 so he/she can validate their medical school basic science prowess?
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Wow...no insult intended, Sleepfairy, but I don't think your post is going to go very far in engendering good relationships between docs/nurses.
Blade: I'll work with you any day! We need more people like you out there!
Blade:
I'll work with you any day! We need more people like you out there!- Joined
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Sleepfairy said:Is it really so much better that a spoiled med student who has never worked a day in their life is so much superior then someone who doesnt go to med school?? No im not just a technician, I have a brain, I can make intelligent decisions on my own..why does everyone automatically assume I want to go to med school and be a doctor ?? Yes all you MD's and wannabees out there you are not at the top of the food chain you only think you are and you should really be grateful for everyone who helps you or saves your ass when your home sleeping or golfing. BTW anesthesia is the practice of NURSING not Medicine. Seacrest Outtttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt !
Spoiled med student??!! What is spoiled about working your ass off for 4 years of undergrad while jumping over countless hurdles (MCAT, AMCAS, interviews, Financial aid, community service, shadowing) JUST TO GET IN to medical school, only to get there and realize that you have to work ten times harder for 7-8 more years while knowing the whole time you will come out of the experience over $100,000 in debt?? You can't say that ANY med student (top or bottom of his class) has never worked a day in his life.
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Let me put this whole debate to bed right now.
I am currently an RN. I am currently a 3rd year medical student.
I do not hate myself (RN self). I do not hate any of the nurses I work with.
I do not hate myself (medical student self). I do not hate any of the medical students, residents, or attendings I work with.
I think putting forth a blanket statement such as "why do all nurses hate all medical students" or "why do all medical students hate all nurses, residents, and attendings, social workers, pharmacists, CNAs, EMT-B, EMT-I, EMT-P, etc" is ludicrous. Everyone has a bad day. Everyone has those few people with whom they do not get along.
Let's stop arguing about something that does not exist. Everyone - from the techs running around getting vital signs at 0800 to the attending teaching to the post-call intern writing orders on rounds - has a place in the health and well-being of our patients. Why does noone ever manage to see the healthcare team as a "team?"
So, maybe I'm just a "stupid nurse that doesn't understand what medical school is all about" or a "spoiled medical student who has never worked a day in his life." This is just my thoughts on this all too tired debate. I love nursing, I love medicine. Someday, I hope to be able to use the skills I gained as a nurse to become a better physician. The physicians I have met that were nurses first are some of the best physicians I've ever had the priviledge to know. They are the ones I look up to.
Enough said.
Actually, now that I think about it... I do seem to have some self loathing..... LOL
Jonethan De. RN, CEN, MSIII <----- (initials included for effect)
I am currently an RN. I am currently a 3rd year medical student.
I do not hate myself (RN self). I do not hate any of the nurses I work with.
I do not hate myself (medical student self). I do not hate any of the medical students, residents, or attendings I work with.
I think putting forth a blanket statement such as "why do all nurses hate all medical students" or "why do all medical students hate all nurses, residents, and attendings, social workers, pharmacists, CNAs, EMT-B, EMT-I, EMT-P, etc" is ludicrous. Everyone has a bad day. Everyone has those few people with whom they do not get along.
Let's stop arguing about something that does not exist. Everyone - from the techs running around getting vital signs at 0800 to the attending teaching to the post-call intern writing orders on rounds - has a place in the health and well-being of our patients. Why does noone ever manage to see the healthcare team as a "team?"
So, maybe I'm just a "stupid nurse that doesn't understand what medical school is all about" or a "spoiled medical student who has never worked a day in his life." This is just my thoughts on this all too tired debate. I love nursing, I love medicine. Someday, I hope to be able to use the skills I gained as a nurse to become a better physician. The physicians I have met that were nurses first are some of the best physicians I've ever had the priviledge to know. They are the ones I look up to.
Enough said.
Actually, now that I think about it... I do seem to have some self loathing..... LOL
Jonethan De. RN, CEN, MSIII <----- (initials included for effect)
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Sleepfairy said:BTW anesthesia is the practice of NURSING not Medicine.
I find this last statement absolutely ludicrous but then what do I know im only an MSII, maybe you could elaborate on the topic some... I could use a good read.
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NurseDaisy said:
I am not offended by your post NurseDaisy, although you seem to be offended by mine. Of course some of those pages are needed. But a large proportion are not. The more "important" issues at hand are admitting one of the 9 patients I am admitting that night or evaluating the person with crushing chest pain, decreased level of consciousness after a fall, or many other duties. Thus, when a night shift nurse who started at 7pm and will go home at 7am calls me at 1am about a patient that I cross covering on (meaning I know the basics of their situation but do not care for them daily) to ask me to change vitals from q4h to q8h or to advance their diet, I am not happy. If I get mutiple pages within 3 minutes from a nurse on such a topic while I am working on that patient with chest pain, it delays my care of what is truly an urgent situation. Doctors are on call at night for urgent issues. We are not working the night shift.
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Sleepfairy said:I would like to comment on the whole eduction disparity bewteen nurses and MD's. As a RN (diploma grad) for 20 + years, a undergraduate degree in Chemistry, BSN, Masters in Anesthesia and a CRNA who was educated, yes EDUCATED in a DO medical school..yes took the same physiology and pharmacology courses, anatomy courses ect..who do you think were at the top of the bell curve when it came to grades in classes ? Its not about being a MD or a RN or whatever the hell you want to call yourself its about the initiative to educate yourself and keep current. Just because im a RN with a CRNA does not mean im stupid and dont have the education a physician has in the sciences. What happened to clinical experience and gaining insight and vision from working with the critically ill ?? Is it really so much better that a spoiled med student who has never worked a day in their life is so much superior then someone who doesnt go to med school?? No im not just a technician, I have a brain, I can make intelligent decisions on my own..why does everyone automatically assume I want to go to med school and be a doctor ?? Yes all you MD's and wannabees out there you are not at the top of the food chain you only think you are and you should really be grateful for everyone who helps you or saves your ass when your home sleeping or golfing. BTW anesthesia is the practice of NURSING not Medicine. Seacrest Outtttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt !
Wow, that is about the stupidest post I have ever read.....LOL
Marilyn
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Cowboy DO said:
Hellooooooooooooo??? Look Mr. Med Student and any other lurkers who know nothing about anesthesia..Pull your nose out of your med school books and read some history books..Nurses have been administering anesthesia long before any physician..it wasnt until you could make $$ at it that physicians became interested in it. Another stupid post by another spoiled lil med student..go cry to your mommy not to us nurses
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