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I don't undestand why there are so few optometry schools. Is this the result of there being ophthalmologists who can provide the same services and more? Thanks for the feedback.
Orange Crush said:I don't undestand why there are so few optometry schools. Is this the result of there being ophthalmologists who can provide the same services and more? Thanks for the feedback.
Orange Crush said:I have a hard believing that there are too many optometrists. There is a huge shortage of nurses and pharmacists, and I would have thought the same would be true of optometrists. The aging baby boomer generation is increasing the demand for healthcare services. I think optometrists want to limit new schools from opening only for selfish reasons....they want to limit the number of optometrists in order keep their salaries as high as possible.
xmattODx said:Believe what you want. From the perspective of a relatively new grad there are too many optometrists. A lot of ODs have the ability to see walk-ins, in fact they are welcome with open arms. Many of our colleagues are dong $19 eye exams just to get people in the door. The majority of new grads will work commerical optometry upon graduation because they feel, correctly or not, that there is no other opportunity because of the over-saturation of optometrists in most urban centers.
Orange Crush said:Why don't the optometrist move to more rural areas? I know there is a lack of optomerists in rural areas, which is the contention of the university in NC that wants to open up a new optometry school. I think optometry ranks as one of the highest paying professions according to some articles that I have read, and even the optometry schools tout excellent salaries as a reason to puruse a career in optometry. I have a hard time believing there is an oversaturation of optometrists nationally in america if optometrists are making that much money.
cpw said:There might be too few schools in Canada, but that is definitely not the case here in the US. If anything a few of the larger private schools need to cut their class sizes drastically (like ICO).
Optometrists don't move to rural areas for many reasons. For me, personally, i'd be bored to tears. Second, I'm getting married and have to think of more than myself. My future husband has no place to work in a rural area. He has to have access to a major city with a major airport in order to continue in his line of work. So, rural's out for us.
And no, ODs don't have one of the highest salaries. Almost any MD speciality makes more than we do. Dentists make far more than we do. A successful veterinarian can do the same or better than we do. No, you won't starve, but unless you have a HUGELY successful private practice you'll never be rich. Comfortable yes, but not rich.
Don't think I'm bashing the profession in any way. I LOVE what I do. But, I'm not going to sugar coat or over-glorify it either. It takes major work to be successful and in most major cities there are way more ODs than are really necessary. In Houston, I have friends fighting for relief work/days since there are no opportunities for full-time or even part time work. (there are some, but they are few and far between).
My biggest advice. Move out of the city where your school is !! Look online at job listings and see where there is demand. (that's what I did) Be willing to move to a state you might not have considered before. Be flexible! There were opportunities in Tampa, I looked into them, made phone calls, and found a city where myself and my fiance could prosper. Do some research and you'll be fine. You can make a living in any city in the country, but you have to do what's best for you.
Hines302 said:CPW and Matt,
Just out of curiosity what would you guys consider a comfotable as opposed to rich? 125K - 150K a year is not unheard of for private practice owner? seems like a good living to me
Hines302 said:CPW and Matt,
Just out of curiosity what would you guys consider a comfotable as opposed to rich? 125K - 150K a year is not unheard of for private practice owner? seems like a good living to me
blazenmadison said:Move to Alaska. The average OD salary is 130k.
Orange Crush said:Optometrists average 88K a year even when the market is oversaturated with optometrists? Wow. There is actually a shortage of nuclear engineers, and they average less than optometrists do. I don't think you can say optometrist don't make a lot of money based on this. They make more than almost any profession other than medical physicians and dentists.
xmattODx said:I don't recall saying that optometrists don't make good money. If you think you'll be "rich" you won't. If you knew me you'd know that money is not my first priority in life. You will do far better than most people in the working world and you'll live far better than the vast majority of the people on this planet. What you'll make in a day BILLIONS of people won't see in a year, however, try to get a job that you like in a major city. It is hard, not impossible. It is hard because there are too many people either competing for the same job or opening their own practice. It is just a reality that there is an oversupply problem right now. You can beleive it or not - I'm telling you from the trenches of an employed OD that there is. I think it is the opinion of most practicing ODs that there are too many of us. I'm not telling you not to become an OD. I'm just saying their isn't a shortage of us out here and there are not too few schools.
Orange Crush said:I see that you live in Atlanta. Would it be hard to find a job in a medium sized city such as Greenville, SC or Huntsville, AL?
Orange Crush said:Optometrists average 88K a year even when the market is oversaturated with optometrists? Wow. There is actually a shortage of nuclear engineers, and they average less than optometrists do. I don't think you can say optometrist don't make a lot of money based on this. They make more than almost any profession other than medical physicians and dentists.
J.opt said:Everybody says that there are too many ODs, but the schools wont reduce class sizes themselves, because they want the money, and the govmt doesnt mind over-competition, because that reduces the cost of health care.
If optos were to get serious about reducing graduation rates, whose job would it be? The AOAs?
stompy said:True, 88k/year is a lot of money compared to many professions. But most professions don't require you to borrow 100k-200k + interest and 4 ADDITIONAL years of your life AFTER a BS degree.
jefguth said:This is what is critical for people considering optometry to realize. In a debt managment course at ICO our instructor gave us a couple of financial case studies of actual graduates. One was a part time clinical instructor at ICO and also worked at a private practice to cover the rest of here time. Despite making an income of ~85K she was unable to get a mortgage to buy a condo because of the loan repayment schedule she had chosen (10 years i think) and her car payment - she had to continue living with her parents! While it is possible to suceed despite scary situations like that, it is essential to consider the consequenes of large debts in return for an income that is slightly higher than normal; choose the right schedule to pay your loans and don't expect to live like someone making 100K from the start (even if you are).
Orange Crush said:I have a hard believing that there are too many optometrists. There is a huge shortage of nurses and pharmacists, and I would have thought the same would be true of optometrists. The aging baby boomer generation is increasing the demand for healthcare services. I think optometrists want to limit new schools from opening only for selfish reasons....they want to limit the number of optometrists in order keep their salaries as high as possible.
jefguth said:I think that OD chose the 10 year schedule b/c of a desire to be free of debt asap. However, the course instructor was recomending to students that they choose the 30 year schedule b/c the interest rates are low and the lower monthly payment would allow you to purchase a more expensive home - which traditionally is the best investment anyone makes in their lifetime.
jefguth said:I think that OD chose the 10 year schedule b/c of a desire to be free of debt asap. However, the course instructor was recomending to students that they choose the 30 year schedule b/c the interest rates are low and the lower monthly payment would allow you to purchase a more expensive home - which traditionally is the best investment anyone makes in their lifetime.
gsinccom said:great thread guys. I think one thing to keep in mind is that the average $ also takes into count those that work part-time doesn't it? A question for those that are soon to graduate or are currently practicing. If I can't afford to startup my practice right out of school or buy one out would you recommend I get a corporate job or work with OMDs? You usually make a bit more with corporate but you don't get benefits right? I know some who work with OMDs who still do pretty well and get good benefits. CPW how many hours a week do corporate locations require you to work (what about night and weekend shifts) and how many years do you have to committ to before you can go out on your own? How are these contracts you make with the corporate folks?
cpw said:I don't own the office ... so I work five days a week 10-6. The office itself is open seven days a week. And no, you don't get benefits because you're an independant contractor. The corporation cannot hire you and give you their benefits. Most docs I know get medical savings plans or small business plans.
The doctor I replaced left here to go to a TLC laser center to work with OMD's, make slightly less, but have health, dental and 401K.
YOU ARE NOT AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR! There are several requirements that must be met in order for you to be considered one. The biggest ones are:cpw said:I don't own the office ... so I work five days a week 10-6. The office itself is open seven days a week. And no, you don't get benefits because you're an independant contractor. The corporation cannot hire you and give you their benefits. Most docs I know get medical savings plans or small business plans.
The doctor I replaced left here to go to a TLC laser center to work with OMD's, make slightly less, but have health, dental and 401K.
jchod said:. . . Anyone who thinks that ther are too many graduates or that reducing the number of yearly graduates is going to secure their job or make them more porductive is, in my mind, very naive!!! Look how many dentists graduate each year!! Just be good at what you do. If you are really that good and love your job, you'll get the patients and make the money. Stop whining about that ther needs to only be a few hundred new ODs each year, THEN it'll be better.
xmattODx said:Because dentistry and optometry are the same!
cpw said:I don't own the office ... so I work five days a week 10-6. The office itself is open seven days a week. And no, you don't get benefits because you're an independant contractor. The corporation cannot hire you and give you their benefits. Most docs I know get medical savings plans or small business plans.
The doctor I replaced left here to go to a TLC laser center to work with OMD's, make slightly less, but have health, dental and 401K.
Some lasik procedures require you to get yearly eye exams from the co-managing optometrist, otherwise if your vision deteriorates the OMD will not redo your surgery for free.gsinccom said:I see my eye-doc every one and a half years or so and may see him/her less if I get Lasik soon.
I know it is not all about the money but we need to make the profession "worth it" for potential students otherwise they'll all end up choosing dentistry, MD/DO, or pharmacy instead. Pharmacy cause they'll make more than corporate ODs, they want the security that a corporate job and not having to build up a practice may offer, and the curriculum is easier. Dentistry cause you'll likely make twice what an OD makes, the curriculum is equal to that of OD and getting into school isn't much, if any, harder. I know these are all generlizations but we really do need to unite as a profession!
Hines302 said:This thread leads to a good point. We all are well aware of the problems and challenges we face as a profession... and we have even discussed so possible solutions. So here is the question... how do we put these solutions into practice. Who are the powers that be... and why are they not addressing these issues?
We have talked about these issues at length... why can't we start to act?
Hines302 said:- Develop more programs like infant see... and promote them
Hines302 said:By establishing that healthy vision is imprtant from an early age... we will in plant the the idea in the mind of the public that healthy vision is very important... and much more than just 20/20. Thus the public will begin to put more importance on healthy vision.. and hopefully will seek an OD!