Why are so many supposed "healthcare for all" countries having astronomically higher fatality rates?

[LADoc00]

Aside from maybe Germany, why are the numbers for all these national single payer/government healthcare for all countries look like death traps?

I would assume because since its government, its massively undercapitalized, understaffed, inferior training and education and the sad laughable use by the Spanish government by test bought on the cheap from China that has a 30% sensitivity?! (WTF?)

but I have only worked in the German healthcare system, which I still thought was massively inferior but it still appears to be keeping its head above water on this, does anyone have actual experience in Italy/Spain/France/UK that would explain their dismal failure here??

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[Alteran]

I think you answered your own question.

 

[D1b()4]

Germany is doing pretty well. Italy and Spain have always had weaker economy and scientific/manufacturing base than Germany. Also, Italy and Spain have high proportion of the elderly. Italy probably has had many more cases of COVID-19 since it had been a super popular place with Chinese tourists, but the testing has been very limited. Also, they are in later stages of the pandemic than the United States. I predict our numbers, in terms of mortality, will be worse than Germany's once this is all over.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

This ballgame is far from over. A mid 40 year old female (who was healthy) I know just died from this so it is concerning me more and more.

 

[deleted314957]

This ballgame is far from over. A mid 40 year old female (who was healthy) I know just died from this so it is concerning me more and more.

For really? Just walkin’ around in rural northern Kentucky and otherwise health as a horse? No NYC vacation, etc?


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[Alteran]

This ballgame is far from over. A mid 40 year old female (who was healthy) I know just died from this so it is concerning me more and more.

There are just under 200,000 cases of ARDS/year in the US with or without COVID19. These things happen to people across all age groups all the time. Except that before this pandemic, such deaths didn’t make the news.

 

[y2k_free_radical]

This ballgame is far from over. A mid 40 year old female (who was healthy) I know just died from this so it is concerning me more and more.

We have a lot of COVID sick people with some close to death here in rural south GEORGIA-more per capita than NEW YORK

 

[deleted314957]

There are just under 200,000 cases of ARDS/year in the US with or without COVID19. These things happen to people across all age groups all the time. Except that before this pandemic, such deaths didn’t make the news.

I am familiar with the non specific pulmonary response called ARDS. I specifically was asking about covid induced ards in a person with zero social or geographic risk factors.


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[WEBB PINKERTON]

For really? Just walkin’ around in rural northern Kentucky and otherwise health as a horse? No NYC vacation, etc?


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No, her husband was a good buddy of mine who is an engineer at a large automotive plant. He and his family moved to China to work at the company's factory in China a few years ago. She was a healthy lady with no pre-existing conditions.

 

[gbwillner]

Aside from maybe Germany, why are the numbers for all these national single payer/government healthcare for all countries look like death traps?

I would assume because since its government, its massively undercapitalized, understaffed, inferior training and education and the sad laughable use by the Spanish government by test bought on the cheap from China that has a 30% sensitivity?! (WTF?)

but I have only worked in the German healthcare system, which I still thought was massively inferior but it still appears to be keeping its head above water on this, does anyone have actual experience in Italy/Spain/France/UK that would explain their dismal failure here??

I think this is just cherry-picking data for no apparent reason or maybe being swayed by bad opinion of biased talking heads. First, our mortality rate is not yet fully understood and deaths are still increasing at an exponential rate. Second, why not compare to countries that have similar standards of living or medical care. We already know we have worse rates than Germany- how bout comparing to the socialist country up north- Canada?

In the end I suspect our rates are all pretty much the same, with the difference only being screening to capture non-critically ill patients.

 

[HeyDalaron]

I think it has to do with smoking rates.

 

[Guest8]

I think it has to do with smoking rates.

I was going to guess how social interaction works in those countries compared to others. Italy and Spain (and some other European countries) are very touchy and intimate, with lots of hand-to-hand interactions, kissing as a greeting, etc. Germany is more hands-off, as are other northern European countries and many of the Asian countries (Japan, S Korea). I wonder if the touchy-feely ones are getting hit worse.

 

[Mad Jack]

This ballgame is far from over. A mid 40 year old female (who was healthy) I know just died from this so it is concerning me more and more.

I know of a healthy 27 year old and a 42 year old with mild asthma that passed away in the past couple of days, both friends of friends.

 

[yaah]

The death rate is presumably so much higher because there are an incredible number of undiagnosed infections. Probably started earlier than was commonly thought in those countries. It has likely zero to do with the fact that health insurance and coverage are nationalized. The most helpful data would be what percentage of hospitalized patients die or need vents, but likely many countries are hospitalizing more people as precautions than others. The data is such a mess.

Ohio and Michigan had essentially the same timeline for closing schools, restaurants, etc, (if you want to argue with me on this look up the dates because you're wrong) and Michigan has many more infections. I don't think you can judge infection and even death numbers based on peripheral factors like socialized health care or whatever, there are many more important variables.