Which specialty allows you to have a more balanced life?

[Indodo]

Ropewalker

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[Jabbed]

talking about graduate (medicine) vs undergrad(engineer) loans. most graduate work you do as an engineering student is going to be tuition-free along with a stipend.

these situations are much too complex to take a hard line stance on either one having a better ROI, I'm just saying there are alternative careers where a good ROI can be had, contrary to most people's opinions where medicine is like the only thing they could make money.

Making 60k a year @ 22 with no student loan debt can result in surprising wealth if it is adequately saved and 6-8 % compound interest works its magic, meanwhile the medical student is still accruing debt.

Quick google search shows average tuitions of ~40k for a two year master's. Salary-wise 100k seems to be at the top-end of most tracks with the sole exception of petroleum engineering which caps around 150k.

The only advantage that engineering students seem to have is two years less tuition (call it ~80k) and some chance of employment post-bachelor's (I would assume that most engineers go for their masters so this is probably not even worth factoring in).

All in all, a nuclear engineer at the 90th percentile will make 100k a year. A family physician at the 50th percentile will make 175k.

Medicine is by far the most secure and highest return field this day in age.

 

[Slack3r]

Quick google search shows average tuitions of ~40k for a two year master's. Salary-wise 100k seems to be at the top-end of most tracks with the sole exception of petroleum engineering which caps around 150k.

The only advantage that engineering students seem to have is two years less tuition (call it ~80k) and some chance of employment post-bachelor's (I would assume that most engineers go for their masters so this is probably not even worth factoring in).

All in all, a nuclear engineer at the 90th percentile will make 100k a year. A family physician at the 50th percentile will make 175k.

Medicine is by far the most secure and highest return field this day in age.

Most engineers do not go for their masters.

 

[PL198]

Quick google search shows average tuitions of ~40k for a two year master's. Salary-wise 100k seems to be at the top-end of most tracks with the sole exception of petroleum engineering which caps around 150k.

The only advantage that engineering students seem to have is two years less tuition (call it ~80k) and some chance of employment post-bachelor's (I would assume that most engineers go for their masters so this is probably not even worth factoring in).

All in all, a nuclear engineer at the 90th percentile will make 100k a year. A family physician at the 50th percentile will make 175k.

Medicine is by far the most secure and highest return field this day in age.

ok thats how I know you have no idea what you're talking about. Highest return? Do you have any idea how 200+K of student debt alone @ 7 percent interest affects the ROI. You're exactly the type of person I'm talking about ,where you can't even fathom other careers having a good ROI.

 

[Jabbed]

ok thats how I know you have no idea what you're talking about. Highest return? Do you have any idea how 200+K of student debt alone @ 7 percent interest affects the ROI. You're exactly the type of person I'm talking about ,where you can't even fathom other careers having a good ROI.

Doubling time = 70/x. Didn't even need my spreadsheets.

It's not the I can't fathom other careers having a good return on investment, it's that in contrast to those other careers, medicine virtually guarantees respectable six figure income for life.

You can be a brilliant student, get into a top MBA program, and run a multi-million dollar company. Or you could be a brilliant student, get into a top MBA program, and work dead-end jobs for the rest of your life. The other classically lucrative careers like investment banking, law, engineering, tech, and software design all suffer from the same major drawback.

Medicine as a career self-selects for those with low-risk tolerance.

 

[PL198]

Doubling time = 70/x. Didn't even need my spreadsheets.

It's not the I can't fathom other careers having a good return on investment, it's that in contrast to those other careers, medicine virtually guarantees respectable six figure income for life.

You can be a brilliant student, get into a top MBA program, and run a multi-million dollar company. Or you could be a brilliant student, get into a top MBA program, and work dead-end jobs for the rest of your life. The other classically lucrative careers like investment banking, law, engineering, tech, and software design all suffer from the same major drawback.

Medicine as a career self-selects for those with low-risk tolerance.

Salary isn't the only thing that matters. I agree medicine is good for low-risk

 

[IlDestriero]

Anyone with children is going to be waking up at 5:30/6. And as you get older you're going to start sleeping less and waking up earlier.

My children get up at 7. If they got up at 530, when I get up, my wife would have to sedate them. The high school start time might require a 6am wake up, but by then, they can shower, dress, eat by themselves.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

ok thats how I know you have no idea what you're talking about. Highest return? Do you have any idea how 200+K of student debt alone @ 7 percent interest affects the ROI. You're exactly the type of person I'm talking about ,where you can't even fathom other careers having a good ROI.

If we are talking about top students then they get scholarships to go to medical school that cover full tuition they also have lucrative specialties open to them. If we want to compare top MBA students, Law and wall street executives so lets compare top med students to.

 

[Psai]

If we are talking about top students then they get scholarships to go to medical school that cover full tuition they also have lucrative specialties open to them. If we want to compare top MBA students, Law and wall street executives so lets compare top med students to.

many of the top students in medical school were not the top students coming in. full tuition scholarships are not that common

 

[mcloaf]

many of the top students in medical school were not the top students coming in. full tuition scholarships are not that common

QFT. Med school scholarships are essentially paying people for past performance, which is not necessarily a reliable way to allocate money to the top performers in medical school. Most of the highest achievers I know are paying full price to be here, as compared to some of those on scholarship who busted ass and knew how to play the game in undergrad with EC involvement etc. and are now closer to average students.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

many of the top students in medical school were not the top students coming in. full tuition scholarships are not that common

They are not common but the people who get their tuition covered in full where the top premeds. If we go by this "work hard" can get you into the top of other fields then it can work for med school.

 

[NickNaylor]

QFT. Med school scholarships are essentially paying people for past performance, which is not necessarily a reliable way to allocate money to the top performers in medical school. Most of the highest achievers I know are paying full price to be here, as compared to some of those on scholarship who busted ass and knew how to play the game in undergrad with EC involvement etc. and are now closer to average students.

Yup. I know I personally burned out a bit and decided to chill out after I got into med school. I'm easily below average in my class.

 

[PL198]

They are not common but the people who get their tuition covered in full where the top premeds. If we go by this "work hard" can get you into the top of other fields then it can work for med school.

I never compared them to the wolves of wall street. you did.

I agree with the others that full tuition is rare.

Personally I'd never compare a medical student to a stud MBA. They're just 2 different types of people with way way way different risk tolerances. Essentially polar opposites.

 

[gujuDoc]

Lifestyle can be achieved in fields like primary care if you are willing to take a pay cut to work less hours as many women in internal medicine, peds, and family medicine do to be able to spend appropriate time with their kids when they are young. However, one needs to distinguish between the "lifestyle specialties" which are labeled such bc they are good lifestyles even at full time level and with good pay vs. good life style with the sacrifice of less pay and less hours to achieve such.

Hospitalist positions in Fam med, IM and Peds allow for shift based medicine as does EM.

Rads can be 50-60 hours but in some instances people even work from home if doing a sub area of rads that doesn't require doing a lot of procedures and direct patient contact. but some predict that there will be a job shortage in the future

 

[doctorjunior]

maybe in other countries but in the US, passionate pediatricians are a dying breed bc of angry parents and the bureaucracy drama.

tbh the biggest hindrance I have about going into peds is dealing with parents. Kids I'm cool with, it's the helicopter, worrywart parents I can't deal with. Granted I'm a idealistic premed so I'm sure my opinions will change once I get into school and start rotations but that's how I feel now.

Urban practice generally gives many more options, especially with networks buying out more and more practices. The greater Philly area has 7-8 health networks whereas where I grew up there was literally two networks, one slowly bought out by the other. Once all but 5 practices in the entire county were bought out, employee satisfaction, benefits, and and treatment all went down. I'd really be wary of going rural if money is your end goal; if a small town is that terrible I can't imagine what a rural. But again, that's just my opinion.

 

[jeffk805dent]

tbh the biggest hindrance I have about going into peds is dealing with parents. Kids I'm cool with, it's the helicopter, worrywart parents I can't deal with. Granted I'm a idealistic premed so I'm sure my opinions will change once I get into school and start rotations but that's how I feel now.

Urban practice generally gives many more options, especially with networks buying out more and more practices. The greater Philly area has 7-8 health networks whereas where I grew up there was literally two networks, one slowly bought out by the other. Once all but 5 practices in the entire county were bought out, employee satisfaction, benefits, and and treatment all went down. I'd really be wary of going rural if money is your end goal; if a small town is that terrible I can't imagine what a rural. But again, that's just my opinion.

if it makes you and any prospective pediatricians feel better, dentists also have to deal with screaming kids and the kids are stubborn which is complicated by the helicopter parents checking every hand move I do when performing surgery. I have a clean criminal record and have a quality cast of dental hygienists and assistants, what more can you ask!

 

[palatopharyngeus]

Obviously the lifestyle specialties: ROAD and possibly psych.
And obviously not Gen surg.
But how about family medicine, pediatrics, IM? Obgyn?
Which ones are known to be good for someone who wishes to have a balanced work/home life?
Any one better than the other?

if your balance is suffering, none of those specialists will be of much use. the body uses primarily a combination of the ears, eyes, and proprioception to maintain balance. i would recommend a good ENT specialist, neurologist, or ophthalmologist. good luck!

 

[doctorjunior]

if it makes you and any prospective pediatricians feel better, dentists also have to deal with screaming kids and the kids are stubborn which is complicated by the helicopter parents checking every hand move I do when performing surgery. I have a clean criminal record and have a quality cast of dental hygienists and assistants, what more can you ask!

That is true.
I'm just more worried about the parents who pretend to know more than the doctors because they read a WebMD article once.
But hey, as long as you never have to use your malpractice insurance, live is good, right?

 

[Preobgyngal23]

Obviously the lifestyle specialties: ROAD and possibly psych.
And obviously not Gen surg.
But how about family medicine, pediatrics, IM? Obgyn?
Which ones are known to be good for someone who wishes to have a balanced work/home life?
Any one better than the other?

Im pre-med and possibly considering obgyn. I've researched a lot and I understand the vigorous hours, but how does it actually work? are you on call once weekly? do you work from the early hours of the morning until the late hours of the evening regardless of how many other ob gyns are available? sorry if these questions seem naive, I just cant seem to find a straight answer to this on google. lol

 

[fancymylotus]

if it makes you and any prospective pediatricians feel better, dentists also have to deal with screaming kids and the kids are stubborn which is complicated by the helicopter parents checking every hand move I do when performing surgery. I have a clean criminal record and have a quality cast of dental hygienists and assistants, what more can you ask!

I mostly don't let parents in the room with me. Especially if there might be stuff flying around. Infection control and all. Though I try to avoid seeing kids as much as I can. Do not like. Someone thought it would be cute to stick a kid into my schedule last week, her dad refused to leave the room and insisted on standing right behind me and he was no joke four times my size, the kid was already freaking out and I went to pick up the syringe and the dad knocked into my hands...so I put my stuff down and told him that if he didn't think he could wait in the waiting room, I was going to set her up to see the pediatric dentist with the anesthesiologist because I wasn't willing to risk hurting myself just so he could hover. No ****ing thank you.

 

[Mass Effect]

I mostly don't let parents in the room with me. Especially if there might be stuff flying around. Infection control and all. Though I try to avoid seeing kids as much as I can

It's probably good that you avoid seeing kids as much as you can.

 

[fancymylotus]

It's probably good that you avoid seeing kids as much as you can.

Hey, at least I have some self awareness. Think whatever you want.

 

[Lawgiver]

Why do u post in md forums so much, ur a dentis.

 

[Mass Effect]

Hey, at least I have some self awareness. Think whatever you want.

I don't think anything bad. I just don't think you're suited to treat kids, which is perfectly fine. We all have our likes and dislikes.

 

[DubVille]

Im pre-med and possibly considering obgyn. I've researched a lot and I understand the vigorous hours, but how does it actually work? are you on call once weekly? do you work from the early hours of the morning until the late hours of the evening regardless of how many other ob gyns are available? sorry if these questions seem naive, I just cant seem to find a straight answer to this on google. lol

If you are in private practice, you go in when the baby comes or if there is an emergency with your patient. Night, day, weekend, during clinic, whatever. If you are on vacation a partner or other doc will cover often with you doing the same for them. I don't know as much about how it works in academics as I swiftly ran away from obgyn after my 6 required weeks in med school.

 

[jeffk805dent]

I mostly don't let parents in the room with me. Especially if there might be stuff flying around. Infection control and all. Though I try to avoid seeing kids as much as I can. Do not like. Someone thought it would be cute to stick a kid into my schedule last week, her dad refused to leave the room and insisted on standing right behind me and he was no joke four times my size, the kid was already freaking out and I went to pick up the syringe and the dad knocked into my hands...so I put my stuff down and told him that if he didn't think he could wait in the waiting room, I was going to set her up to see the pediatric dentist with the anesthesiologist because I wasn't willing to risk hurting myself just so he could hover. No ****ing thank you.

Thank you for sharing. Here's a cyber mango lassi in honor of your story.

 

[fancymylotus]

Thank you for sharing. Here's a cyber mango lassi in honor of your story.

Whoaomg, I changed my mind, you can stay. Mango lassi's are my FAVE.

 

[jeffk805dent]

Why do u post in md forums so much, ur a dentis.

To quote Bane from the Dark Knight Rises: "Then why are you pre-med people here"

 

[Psai]

I have nothing but respect for dentists