Which School Should I Pick?

[RTKMD]

I am a California resident and am fortunate enough to get into 2 schools (1 MD, 1 DO). I would appreciate any advice on which one is best. I am not interested in primary care or family medicine. Currently thinking about OB/GYN or general surgery. I am posting in the MD and DO forums to hoping to get both view points.

Western Michigan:
Pros:
- MD school
- Very new school with impressive building and facilities
- New curriculum
- Taking Step 1 after 3rd year

Cons:
- Weather (don't really like cold and snow)
- New school: their 1st class hasn't even taken the Step yet, no track record on students' performance on Step, no match history
- New school: not sure how the PDs will view students from this school

Midwestern (AZCOM):
Pros:
- Weather (sunny Arizona)
- Close to home and family
- Good track record of above average board scores
- Good track record of matching students
- Established school (one of the better DO schools around)

Cons:
- DO school
- Very expensive tuition

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[libertyyne]

You're overestimating the stigma against them. First off, unless OP wants to go into radiology/dermatology/surgery, going to a DO school won't be what holds back OP from the specialty that OP wants. And, on a further note, even if OP is theoretically better off going to an MD school, then that's for well established MD schools, not brand new ones.

Academic IM programs also discriminate. So kinda unsure what specialties are left after that. There is a reason >50% of DOS are in primary care ,and it's not because they prefer it either.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Academic IM programs also discriminate. So kinda unsure what specialties are left after that. There is a reason >50% of DOS are in primary care ,and it's not because they prefer it either.

Not all of them do. And an IM program that discriminates DO and MD probably also takes into account the prestige of the MD school. So the difference in benefit of going to a new MD vs established DO is small for these programs: something that OP can readily overcome.


And students who go into DO programs tend to have weaker stats than MD matriculants. Since MD students were academically stronger to begin with, I suppose they land more selective residencies. So it's not that they are in primary care just because they are in DO schools. MD students land better residencies because they got into MD schools. If they got into MD schools then they are academically stronger and obviously attend MD schools.

 

[libertyyne]

Students who go into DO programs tend to have weaker stats than MD matriculants. Since MD students were academically stronger to begin with, I suppose they land more selective residencies. So it's not that they are in primary care because they are in DO schools.

I'm quite impressed by the mental gymnastics. There is clear data stating acgme PDs have bias against do , furthermore a majority of do students end up in PCP. Yes I can't get into the minds of DO students and find out their hopes and desires,but the evidence would point to them being funneled into primary care through choice or not.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

I'm quite impressed by the mental gymnastics. There is clear data stating acgme PDs have bias against do , furthermore a majority of do students end up in PCP. Yes I can't get into the minds of DO students and find out their hopes and desires,but the evidence would point to them being funneled into primary care through choice or not.

Some of them do. And I'd say that they would get over that if a DO student has academically excelled.

 

[libertyyne]

Some of them do. And I'd say that they would get over that if a DO student has academically excelled.

If by some you mean 50% of programs either seldom or never interview let alone rank. I asked this same question to the dean of a very good osteopathic school. He said,"yes the bias exists ,and yes it won't go away post merger. "
Why would OP even risk that ?
Look at any new MD schools match list over the past decade, those are lists that make even the best DO school students salvate.
The do boards go nuts after seeing a handful of students match into em , anasthesia , and obgyn. Those are just a typical year for MD schools. I don't agree with it. But the bias is real.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

If by some you mean 50% of programs either seldom or never interview let alone rank. I asked this same question to the dean of a very good osteopathic school. He said,"yes the bias exists ,and yes it won't go away post merger. "
Why would OP even risk that ?
Look at any new MD schools match list over the past decade, those are lists that make even the best DO school students salvate.
The do boards go nuts after seeing a handful of students match into em , anasthesia , and obgyn. Those are just a typical year for MD schools. I don't agree with it. But the bias is real.

Where's the proof regarding the 50%

 

[libertyyne]

Where's the proof regarding the 50%

Look at the PD survey data earlier in this thread.

 

[libertyyne]

Where's the proof regarding the 50%

Look at the PD survey data earlier in this thread.

 

[Goro]

That throws some mud into the mix. I can't remember which of the two AZ DO schools does this, but one scatters their students all over the state, and has too many preceptor-based clerkships. If this is AZCOM, then I'd lean to WMED.


There IS a bias against DO graduates among a number of PDs, especially in those of the more competitive specialties. The 2016 Program Directors survey (a snippet of which was show earlier, but notedly for some uber-specialties) tells you which specialties are more DO friendly.

A notion I have been mulling over, and I hope that my wise resident and attending colleagues can provide some input, is that while yes, as a DO, you won't get into a top residency program, you'll still get into a residency program. So for pure example's sake, while you won't get into NYU's orthopedics program, you might be able into some orthopedics program. And thus, you get to be an orthopod. Am I making sense?

Back to the OP's question. I will generally lean towards an establish DO school over a new MD program, but there are other factors int he mix. It's NOT a simple MD vs DO decision. The candidate's issues and concerns have to be taken into account. "More doors will be open" is simply one parameter to be considered.

@Goro, I am accepted to AZCOM, not CCOM. With that, would your recomendation still be the same (AZCOM > WMed)? My gut feeling is telling me that there is a lot to be said about going to an established school with a track record. So, I am glad to hear about your viewpoint. I just don't know how real the DO prejudice is or whether it is something that is prevalent in the premed world only.

 

[raiderette]

I am at MD school, while my bff is at DO. The hassle of rotations would push me away from DO. She is at an established school and still has to travel quite a bit, and go to community hospitals versus teaching hospitals. When searching for away rotations many MD programs will not allow her to apply. It is going to cost her more to travel for rotations as well, and she is concerned that she will have even more expenses because she will need to take two tests, apply to twice as many residency programs. Maybe a current DO student can chime in about AZCOM for you.

 

[MDProspect]

I gave up several DO acceptances this cycle without much hesitation as soon as I got accepted into a MD school. The biggest deterrent for me was the fact that I would have to take the COMLEX and USMLE when there is hardly enough time allotted to study for one exam. I also got the impression that these DO schools were more focused on teaching OMM and the holistic healing mantra instead of medicine.

I have a friend who is a MSIII at DMU. He has mastered how to manipulate the body after spending numerous hours in the OMM skills lab, but he still has difficulty with reading an ECG printout.

As other posters have mentioned, there is also a DO bias among Pds (especially in the uber specialties); however, I think the lack of resources/guidance is the more compelling reason of why more than 50% of DOs end up in primary care. I don't know if all DO schools do this, but the schools that I am familiar with, are not research oriented and their mandatory preceptorships are with PCPs.

 

[stickgirl390]

As Obi-Wan Kenobi wisely states, "Only a Sith Deals in Absolutes".

That statement is an absolute. This means either A) Obi Wan is a sith. B) Obi Wan lied, which is against the Jedi code, and he is a sith.

 

[freak7]

"or" ≠ xor

 

[Lawpy]

I am a California resident and am fortunate enough to get into 2 schools (1 MD, 1 DO). I would appreciate any advice on which one is best. I am not interested in primary care or family medicine. Currently thinking about OB/GYN or general surgery. I am posting in the MD and DO forums to hoping to get both view points.

Western Michigan:
Pros:
- MD school
- Very new school with impressive building and facilities
- New curriculum
- Taking Step 1 after 3rd year

Cons:
- Weather (don't really like cold and snow)
- New school: their 1st class hasn't even taken the Step yet, no track record on students' performance on Step, no match history
- New school: not sure how the PDs will view students from this school

Midwestern (AZCOM):
Pros:
- Weather (sunny Arizona)
- Close to home and family
- Good track record of above average board scores
- Good track record of matching students
- Established school (one of the better DO schools around)

Cons:
- DO school
- Very expensive tuition

You should also post this on osteopathic forum.

I have left it here as there are more responses and more traffic.
If OP prefers pre-osteo, I will move it there.

thoughts on moving this thread to the new forum?

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/school-selections.1106/

 

[gyngyn]

thoughts on moving this thread to the new forum?

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/school-selections.1106/

Sure.