Which School Should I Pick?

[RTKMD]

I am a California resident and am fortunate enough to get into 2 schools (1 MD, 1 DO). I would appreciate any advice on which one is best. I am not interested in primary care or family medicine. Currently thinking about OB/GYN or general surgery. I am posting in the MD and DO forums to hoping to get both view points.

Western Michigan:
Pros:
- MD school
- Very new school with impressive building and facilities
- New curriculum
- Taking Step 1 after 3rd year

Cons:
- Weather (don't really like cold and snow)
- New school: their 1st class hasn't even taken the Step yet, no track record on students' performance on Step, no match history
- New school: not sure how the PDs will view students from this school

Midwestern (AZCOM):
Pros:
- Weather (sunny Arizona)
- Close to home and family
- Good track record of above average board scores
- Good track record of matching students
- Established school (one of the better DO schools around)

Cons:
- DO school
- Very expensive tuition

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[Goro]

You know what people are going to say in this forum.

 

[Beezlebub]

I am a California resident and am fortunate enough to get into 2 schools (1 MD, 1 DO). I would appreciate any advice on which one is best. I am not interested in primary care or family medicine. Currently thinking about OB/GYN or general surgery. I am posting in the MD and DO forums to hoping to get both view points.

Western Michigan:
Pros:
- MD school
- Very new school with impressive building and facilities
- New curriculum
- Taking Step 1 after 3rd year

Cons:
- Weather (don't really like cold and snow)
- New school: their 1st class hasn't even taken the Step yet, no track record on students' performance on Step, no match history
- New school: not sure how the PDs will view students from this school

Midwestern (AZCOM):
Pros:
- Weather (sunny Arizona)
- Close to home and family
- Good track record of above average board scores
- Good track record of matching students
- Established school (one of the better DO schools around)

Cons:
- DO school
- Very expensive tuition

You should also post this on osteopathic forum.

 

[RTKMD]

@Goro, @Beezlebub, thanks for the quick reply. I also posted this on the osteopathic forum. I honestly would like to see both sides. because it is not clear to me that the choice is that straight forward. Does MD school always trump DO school, even one that is low-tier, brand new with no track record?

 

[Rekt]

@Goro, @Beezlebub, thanks for the quick reply. I also posted this on the osteopathic forum. I honestly would like to see both sides. because it is not clear to me that the choice is that straight forward. Does MD school always trump DO school, even one that is low-tier, brand new with no track record?

It ALWAYS does. The ****tiest MD school is still better than KCU, AZ/CCOM, Touro's etc, not because of the education, but because of the letters. It's just reality. Make your life easier and go to Michigan.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

@Goro, @Beezlebub, thanks for the quick reply. I also posted this on the osteopathic forum. I honestly would like to see both sides. because it is not clear to me that the choice is that straight forward. Does MD school always trump DO school, even one that is low-tier, brand new with no track record?

The fact that you're even asking that question shows that you are unaware of how this all works. The MD and DO professions are racing towards each other and accelerating. In a few decades, the only difference between the two will be the letters behind the name. Even about a minimum of one-fourth of neurosurgery .. residency programs consider DO applicants seriously. Whatever school you choose, don't use the MD vs. DO as a factor, especially since you got into a very good DO school.

 

[Lawpy]

I am a California resident and am fortunate enough to get into 2 schools (1 MD, 1 DO).

US MD > US DO any day. Go to Western Michigan.

DO students would probably/likely agree with this assertion, but I'll tag the experts @AlteredScale and @Mad Jack anyways.

 

[gyngyn]

You should also post this on osteopathic forum.

Cross posting is against TOS.

 

[Beezlebub]

Cross posting is against TOS.

you're kidding me, right? this individual has valid reasons to get both perspectives to make an informed decision about his future. Isn't that the mission statement of this forum. Thanks for being difficult. I'm getting off this forum for the next month or so. pce.

@Goro, @Beezlebub, thanks for the quick reply. I also posted this on the osteopathic forum. I honestly would like to see both sides. because it is not clear to me that the choice is that straight forward. Does MD school always trump DO school, even one that is low-tier, brand new with no track record?

i'd check to make sure you dont get in trouble on forum before you post on DO.

 

[Lawpy]

you're kidding me, right? this individual has valid reasons to get both perspectives to make an informed decision about his future. Isn't that the mission statement of this forum. Thanks for being difficult. I'm getting off this forum for the next month or so. pce.

i'd check to make sure you dont get in trouble on forum before you post on DO.

DO students regularly respond in pre-allo forums. And I already tagged the DO experts to give a more informed input on the matter.

 

[Beezlebub]

DO students regularly respond in pre-allo forums. And I already tagged the DO experts to give a more informed input on the matter.

may as well merge the forums instead of making these silly rules

 

[libertyyne]

MD is better than DO unless you are dead set on primary care medicine. Anyone who says they can predict the elimination of bias post merger is saying they can predict the future.

 

[Lawpy]

may as well merge the forums instead of making these silly rules

well they are merging the MD and DO medical student forums, so that's a plus. i think the pre-allo and pre-osteo forums are kept separate because of two different application systems and cycles involved.

still, posting a thread in multiple places can be disruptive and problematic. having a thread posted in one forum where everyone can respond to is better.

 

[RTKMD]

My sincere apologies. It wasn't my intent to break any rules or cause any disruption with my cross post. I am just honestly hoping to get both view points. This is a big decision for me, and right now, the direction is not clear.

 

[Beezlebub]

well they are merging the MD and DO medical student forums, so that's a plus. i think the pre-allo and pre-osteo forums are kept separate because of two different application systems and cycles involved.

still, posting a thread in multiple places can be disruptive and problematic. having a thread posted in one forum where everyone can respond to is better.

I agree, but in this situation it's clearly pertinent considering the OP is seeking perspectives from both sides to make his decision. More than likely if he only posts here, there will be more MD > DO (based on the responses so far can attest). As Obi-Wan Kenobi wisely states, "Only a Sith Deals in Absolutes".

No need to be difficult.

 

[Lawpy]

MD is better than DO unless you are dead set on primary care medicine. Anyone who says they can predict the elimination of bias post merger is saying they can predict the future.

Even then I would still recommend US MD over US DO. There are structural differences involved between the two degrees that inherently favor US MD. Also, it's generally better to avoid dealing with the extra hassle of COMLEX and DO-equivalent of the shelf exams. There are also differences in quality of clinical rotations and clinical education between MD and DO schools because of differences in strictness of regulatory bodies (LCME is more strict about clinical quality than COCA according to various reports and threads on the matter).

 

[Lawpy]

I agree, but in this situation it's clearly pertinent considering the OP is seeking perspectives from both sides to make his decision. More than likely if he only posts here, there will be more MD > DO (based on the responses so far can attest). As Obi-Wan Kenobi , "Only a Sith Deals in Absolutes".

No need to be difficult.

Yeah I agree responses in preallo forums will inherently be biased towards MD > DO compared to preosteo forums. I think the better option would be to move this thread to preosteo forums to have better insight from DO perspective, even though I believe majority of DO posters there would also agree with MD > DO.

 

[libertyyne]

OP look at this http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2016.pdf come to your own conclusion. Hint MD > > > DO.

 

[Beezlebub]

Cross posting is against TOS.

Yeah I agree responses in preallo forums will inherently be biased towards MD > DO compared to preosteo forums. I think the better option would be to move this thread to preosteo forums to have better insight from DO perspective, even though I believe majority of DO posters there would also agree with MD > DO.

Darth Gyngyn where u at

 

[efle]

may as well merge the forums instead of making these silly rules

Darth Gyngyn where u at

The mods on SDN enforce some of the rules very inconsistently. That isn't always a bad thing, I think his x-post would be left alone. The TOS pretty much exists so after they do something for the good of the forum (e.g. stop someone from spamming every forum with a thread that belongs in only one) they can point to it and say that's why.

 

[Rekt]

 

[gyngyn]

Darth Gyngyn where u at

I have left it here as there are more responses and more traffic.
If OP prefers pre-osteo, I will move it there.

 

[libertyyne]

I have left it here as there are more responses and more traffic.
If OP prefers pre-osteo, I will move there.

Shouldnt this be in the SSD considering its asking for advice between two schools? Unless our request to allow these threads in pre-allo was approved.

 

[libertyyne]

delete

 

[Beezlebub]

I have left it here as there are more responses and more traffic.
If OP prefers pre-osteo, I will move there.

yeah, more allo and fewer osteo. so you're essentially forcing a biased-skewed POV scenario thus preventing him from making an informed decision. this is silly.

 

[Rekt]

.

 

[gyngyn]

Shouldnt this be in the SSD considering its asking for advice between two schools? Unless our request to allow these threads in pre-allo was approved.

This thread is asking about schools that do not fit entirely into either of the school-specific fora.
Either pre-allo or pre-osteo is therefore fine.

 

[Beezlebub]

OP look at this http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2016.pdf come to your own conclusion. Hint MD > > > DO.

save me some time. what are the relevant pgs.

 

[Lawpy]

This thread is asking about schools that do not fit entirely into either of the school specific fora.
Either pre-allo or pre-osteo is therefore fine.

What has the SDN staff decided on creating a separate School X vs School Y discussion forum?

 

[gyngyn]

What has the SDN staff decided on creating a separate School X vs School Y discussion forum?

A sub-forum is under review.

 

[Beezlebub]

This thread is asking about schools that do not fit entirely into either of the school-specific fora.
Either pre-allo or pre-osteo is therefore fine.

 

[libertyyne]

save me some time. what are the relevant pgs.

I was hoping OP would do that.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

If I were you I would pick MD
Why?
1.So I don't have to learn OMM
2.So I don't have to take COMLEX and USMLE(what a pain in the rear end would that be)
3.Say I do well and fall in love with a specialty, coming from D.O makes it harder because M.D bias still exists.

So yeah I would pick M.D..
Even if I was interested in just primary care, #1, and #2 would kind of suck.

 

[OchemOficionado]

you're kidding me, right? this individual has valid reasons to get both perspectives to make an informed decision about his future. Isn't that the mission statement of this forum. Thanks for being difficult. I'm getting off this forum for the next month or so. pce.

Lmaoooooooooooooo. I needed this.

On top of that, this question has been asked a million times. It's not that serious (not talking about his decision, but the fact that you seem so upset). He will get sufficient answers with 1 post. Yes, take a break. Enjoy.

 

[libertyyne]

@Beezlebub
Internal Medicine

NSG

ENT

General Surg

Vascular Surg

You face less discrimination as a US-IMG than you do as DO to some of these specialties. Think about that for a hot sec. Provided I did cherry pick these yet still it is pretty staggering when DO would put you at a disadvantage compared to US-IMG.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

@Beezlebub
Internal Medicine
View attachment 215740

NSG
View attachment 215741
ENT
View attachment 215742
General Surg
View attachment 215743
Vascular Surg
View attachment 215744


You face less discrimination as a US-IMG than you do as DO to some of these specialties. Think about that for a hot sec. Provided I did cherry pick these yet still it is pretty staggering when DO would put you at a disadvantage compared to US-IMG.

Why do you think that is?
It can't be clinical rotations?

 

[Beezlebub]

@Beezlebub
You face less discrimination as a US-IMG than you do as DO to some of these specialties. Think about that for a hot sec. Provided I did cherry pick these yet still it is pretty staggering when DO would put you at a disadvantage compared to US-IMG.

Thanks for this. It's always nice to have statistical input for an argument.

Why do you think that is?
It can't be clinical rotations?

1. Not representative of all other specialties
2. STEP scores, clinical rotation performance, etc not included
3. hard to speculate

Lmaoooooooooooooo. I needed this.

On top of that, this question has been asked a million times. It's not that serious (not talking about his decision, but the fact that you seem so upset). He will get sufficient answers with 1 post. Yes, take a break. Enjoy.

Every response so far has come from an allopathic/pre-allo users favoring allo, not a single DO individual. I am trying to help this individual gain perspectives from both sides- I gain nothing out of this. His future is on the line, so yes, it's serious. Maybe not important for you, but since you made such an illogical comment, and consider these to be sufficient answers, I highly doubt it's worth entertaining your thoughts.

 

[Goro]

Actually, that's exactly the problem. The days of cult of Still are over.

Why do you think that is?
It can't be clinical rotations?

 

[OchemOficionado]

Every response so far has come from an allopathic/pre-allo users favoring allo, not a single DO individual. I am trying to help this individual gain perspectives from both sides- I gain nothing out of this. His future is on the line, so yes, it's serious. Maybe not important for you, but since you made such an illogical comment, and consider these to be sufficient answers, I highly doubt it's worth entertaining your thoughts.

Hahaha. I'm sorry. I like your seriousness. How is it panning out in the DO forum (I couldn't see the post)? You've been told that even there the majority of the answers tend to be MD. How do you know a DO individual hasn't posted here? Someone pointed out that people float back and forth between forums. He can use the search function and read some of the threads here for a better perspective if you're worried the answers aren't well-rounded. . . But your complaint won't change as the MD answers will still out number the DO answers.

 

[Beezlebub]

Hahaha. I'm sorry. I like your seriousness. How is it panning out in the DO forum (I couldn't see the post)? You've been told that even there the majority of the answers tend to be MD. How do you know a DO individual hasn't posted here? Someone pointed out that people float back and forth between forums. He can use the search function and read some of the threads here for a better perspective if you're worried the answers aren't well-rounded. . . But your complaint won't change as the MD answers will still out number the DO answers.

This is so difficult to read. It's like you pieced together a bunch of sentence fragments together. Google translator I hope.

Edit: RTKMD, I apologize for getting off topic and consequently spamming your thread. Congrats on getting accepted medical school. I'm hope you will get enough input to make a confident, well informed decision. All the best.

 

[OchemOficionado]

This is so difficult to read. It's like you pieced together a bunch of sentence fragments together. Google translator I hope.

Dude, are you using google translator as well?

"It's like you pieced TOGETHER a bunch of sentence fragments TOGETHER."

I was just telling you to chill. I've seen a lot of things here, but your outrage was a new one for me. OP will be ok.

 

[Goro]

I'm going to go against the grain and suggest CCOM > WMED. New schools are an unknown, and this is something that PDs take into account. Med schools serve as feeders for residencies just like UG schools serve as feeders to med schools. Compared to the track record of an establish COM like CCOM, WMED does have unknowns. New schools do need to work kinks out, and students had better be good self starters or self-learners.

And y'know, even in Orth Surg, 25% of the PD will rank and interview DOs. So, you may not get into the best orthopedic surgery program, but you still can be an orthopod.

@Goro, @Beezlebub, thanks for the quick reply. I also posted this on the osteopathic forum. I honestly would like to see both sides. because it is not clear to me that the choice is that straight forward. Does MD school always trump DO school, even one that is low-tier, brand new with no track record?

 

[Beezlebub]

Dude, are you using google translator as well?

"It's like you pieced TOGETHER a bunch of sentence fragments TOGETHER."

I was just telling you to chill. I've seen a lot of things here, but your outrage was a new one for me. OP will be ok.

It is not my intention to offend you. It's been a long day and I'm a bit burned out. I'm trying to help the OP as I've been in his shoes several years ago trying to determine the best school to attend from my list of options. Although I disagree w/ the moderator's decision to prohibit x-forum postings, particularly in this situation as multiple perspectives are needed in order to prevent a one-sided argument, I understand it's policy. In terms of determining the significance of this matter, we seem to have a different point of view, and I prefer not to pursue this as it will only derail the topic.

I'm going to go against the grain and suggest CCOM > WMED. New schools are an unknown, and this is something that PDs take into account. Med schools serve as feeders for residencies just like UG schools serve as feeders to med schools. Compared to the track record of an establish COM like CCOM, WMED does have unknowns. New schools do need to work kinks out, and students had better be good self starters or self-learners.

And y'know, even in Orth Surg, 25% of the PD will rank and interview DOs. So, you may not get into the best orthopedic surgery program, but you still can be an orthopod.

Interesting. You are probably the last person on my mind to advocate DO > MD, but I can empathize since this situation is quite unique. One of OP's main concerns is STEP performance, and based on info from wikipedia, WMED's first inaugural class was in 2014, so I suspect they will have their USMLE Step 1 score results soon (since they take it during 3rd yr-quite an interesting format ), though not sure if it will be made public on time.

 

[RTKMD]

Thank you all for the response. If I offended anyone, I didn't mean to. I certainly didn't mean to violate any rules.

@OchemOficionado, I don't think this specific question of AZCOM vs. WMed has been asked a million times. This is not a question on whether MD is better DO in a general sense. This is a question about two very specific schools: an established, very good DO with track record vs. a completely brand new MD school with no track record. I hope you don't trivialize the decision that is in front of me.

Many thanks to @Beezlebub for advocating for me. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

@Goro, I am accepted to AZCOM, not CCOM. With that, would your recomendation still be the same (AZCOM > WMed)? My gut feeling is telling me that there is a lot to be said about going to an established school with a track record. So, I am glad to hear about your viewpoint. I just don't know how real the DO prejudice is or whether it is something that is prevalent in the premed world only.

 

[aalamruad]

The fact that you're even asking that question shows that you are unaware of how this all works. The MD and DO professions are racing towards each other and accelerating. In a few decades, the only difference between the two will be the letters behind the name. Even about a minimum of one-fourth of neurosurgery .. residency programs consider DO applicants seriously. Whatever school you choose, don't use the MD vs. DO as a factor, especially since you got into a very good DO school.

OP can't wait a few decades for the differences between MD and DO to go away. Match day will be in about 4 years from now, and there will still be a sizeable stigma against DO at that point.

 

[OchemOficionado]

I don't think this specific question of AZCOM vs. WMed has been asked a million times. This is not a question on whether MD is better DO in a general sense. This is a question about two very specific schools: an established, very good DO with track record vs. a completely brand new MD school with no track record. I hope you don't trivialize the decision that is in front of me.

My apologies for making you feel I trivialized your decision. I thought I made it clear in my original comment that I was not minimizing your decision. If anything, I was trivializing what I felt was an overreaction to the TOS by another poster. You're right, that exacttttttttttt question hasn't been asked a million times. What I meant when I said that is the outcome is always the same on this topic when you tally the votes (as you can see). I truly hope you gain the clarity you seek for this major decision.

 

[YoungDoc25]

You should not be willing to pay substantially more money to go to a school that will give you less opportunities down the road. AZCOM has a ridiculous tuition. Take the MD and run.

 

[libertyyne]

Wmed is using nmbe exams for assessment of the progress of the class. The median MCAT was 32vs 29 average for azcom. They have had residency programs for a fairly long time so have the clinical relationships for rotations. All that in addition to the clear bias by pds would tip the scales. Not to mention every person at wmed will be working towards your success since a lot rests on the first few match lists.

Also for consideration is the fact that azcom will be loose some advantage in this situation since their entire class does not historically take the usmle so new territory for them as well . This is one of those questions that seems hard but is not really that difficult to answer.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

MD of course

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

OP can't wait a few decades for the differences between MD and DO to go away. Match day will be in about 4 years from now, and there will still be a sizeable stigma against DO at that point.

You're overestimating the stigma against them. First off, unless OP wants to go into radiology/dermatology/surgery, going to a DO school won't be what holds back OP from the specialty that OP wants. And, on a further note, even if OP is theoretically better off going to an MD school, then that's for well established MD schools, not brand new ones.