Which clinical rotation is the worst?

[ChildNeuro]

GEEZ I HOPE YOU ARE WRONG! So far my LOR writers have either volunteered w/o me asking and/or seemed eager to write it. I have no choice but to trust the process.

I think that is a great sign if your writers volunteered to the write the LORS and are eager, I doubt you will have problems. But, traditionally, if you want to go into specialty x, and on that rotation you do well, but for some reason the attending who is in specialty x doesn't like you or doesn't think you will be a good x, but will think you will do much better in other specialties WILL torpedo you, even if you are outperforming your peers. This has been acknowledged to happen at most medical schools, i.e. they openly admit it happened in the past, and are trying to correct it.

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[Ypo.]

I think that a national movement to reform Ob/Gyn clerkships nationwide would be a great step in relieving the suffering of so many medical students and produce more humanistic physicians. There is a logic in Ob/Gyn that has nothing to do with rationality, after my Ob/Gyn my nervers were fried, and the treatment by attendings and evaluations have much less correlation with how well you do, or how hard you work and can leave you feeling very disillusioned with medicine.

Oh, come on. Not every Ob-Gyn rotation is as bad as yours.

I'm only on my first rotation, but I'm convinced that what makes a rotation miserable or tolerable and pleasant is how you approach it and also the people you are around. If you are surrounded by dinguses who want to make you miserable, then it's going to be miserable. Other than that, you may be bored, you may be tired, you may be grossed out, but you aren't going to be suffering. The exception is if you have a problem with lateness or following orders.

 

[smq123]

Oh, come on. Not every Ob-Gyn rotation is as bad as yours.

I'm only on my first rotation, but I'm convinced that what makes a rotation miserable or tolerable and pleasant is how you approach it and also the people you are around. If you are surrounded by dinguses who want to make you miserable, then it's going to be miserable. Other than that, you may be bored, you may be tired, you may be grossed out, but you aren't going to be suffering. The exception is if you have a problem with lateness or following orders.

That's absolutely true, and I agree. But (from what I've heard) there are a high proportion of toxic personalities in OB/Gyn - at a lot of different schools and clinical rotation sites. Not sure why.

Maybe it's a case of higher expectations - it's like "You deliver babies for a living! You must be such a nice person to be around!" And then when they're not, it's doubly disappointing.

 

[musm2008]

That's absolutely true, and I agree. But (from what I've heard) there are a high proportion of toxic personalities in OB/Gyn - at a lot of different schools and clinical rotation sites. Not sure why.

Maybe it's a case of higher expectations - it's like "You deliver babies for a living! You must be such a nice person to be around!" And then when they're not, it's doubly disappointing.

I know. I was expecting Heathcliff Huxtable. Imagine my disappointment.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Oh, come on. Not every Ob-Gyn rotation is as bad as yours.

I'm only on my first rotation, but I'm convinced that what makes a rotation miserable or tolerable and pleasant is how you approach it and also the people you are around. If you are surrounded by dinguses who want to make you miserable, then it's going to be miserable. Other than that, you may be bored, you may be tired, you may be grossed out, but you aren't going to be suffering. The exception is if you have a problem with lateness or following orders.

Have you done Ob yet? I think your comment is uninformed. Ob has nothing to do with how you "approach it." People in Ob generally do make your life miserable. I think you are speaking because you don't yet have experience in this rotation. You'llmost likely see what a nightmare Ob is like when you get to it. I was never late and followed orders all the time. Still got yelled at because they were always in a bad mood. You will see!

 

[THP]

I'd like to take a moment to defend my chosen profession.

I am going into OB/GYN because I had such a great rotation experience. I have enjoyed every rotation I have done but OB was my favorite. I loved obstetrics and I like surgery. I actually have a wife and a couple of kids so coming to the realization that ob is what i want to do was difficult because I know the lifestyle is not great. I thought I would choose a "lifestyle" specialty but I have to do what I will enjoy. There are many reasons why Ob/Gyn is the ultimate specialty but I will not rehash them here. By the way, I am qualified to do any specialty based on numbers (240 step 1 and top 25% of my class).

As far as my 3rd year rotation goes, I did not experience any abuse. There was only one person (an MFM fellow) that anyone in my class had problems with, luckily I didn't really interact with her. Some in my class didn't like the rotation but it was more due to the subject matter rather than abuse from attendings or residents. Most say they enjoyed the rotation more than they expected to.

I am constantly reading about all the abuse med students have to endure on these boards and I have not seen anything remotely resembling what everyone is talking about. Not once during my entire 3rd year did I feel abused. Often I felt bored but that is not the same as dehumanized. In fact I think very few people in my class have had any sort of gripe (I'm sure there are some). I just have a hard time imagining all these horror stories I hear about (such as not being allowed to report needle sticks).

 

[ChildNeuro]

I'd like to take a moment to defend my chosen profession.

I am going into OB/GYN because I had such a great rotation experience. I have enjoyed every rotation I have done but OB was my favorite. I loved obstetrics and I like surgery. I actually have a wife and a couple of kids so coming to the realization that ob is what i want to do was difficult because I know the lifestyle is not great. I thought I would choose a "lifestyle" specialty but I have to do what I will enjoy. There are many reasons why Ob/Gyn is the ultimate specialty but I will not rehash them here. By the way, I am qualified to do any specialty based on numbers (240 step 1 and top 25% of my class).

As far as my 3rd year rotation goes, I did not experience any abuse. There was only one person (an MFM fellow) that anyone in my class had problems with, luckily I didn't really interact with her. Some in my class didn't like the rotation but it was more due to the subject matter rather than abuse from attendings or residents. Most say they enjoyed the rotation more than they expected to.

I am constantly reading about all the abuse med students have to endure on these boards and I have not seen anything remotely resembling what everyone is talking about. Not once during my entire 3rd year did I feel abused. Often I felt bored but that is not the same as dehumanized. In fact I think very few people in my class have had any sort of gripe (I'm sure there are some). I just have a hard time imagining all these horror stories I hear about (such as not being allowed to report needle sticks).

I'm glad you had such a good experience in medical school, and enjoyed Ob/Gyn. Personally, I wish that all medical students had a good time in Ob/Gyn, I have done Ob/Gyn clinical work at a hospital that was not where I did the core and had a FANTASTIC time, it was great interacting with the residents and attendings. So, if someone really wanted to do Ob/Gyn as a career, but hated their Ob/Gyn clerkship, this can largely be based on *where* the clerkship is done. My advice if Ob/Gyn was abusive for you, but still want it, then do a SubI or elective at another hospital. Some Ob/Gyn departments are fabulous, whereas other are frank in that they will treat you very poorly. My Ob/Gyn attending flatly stated that he was the "worst" we will ever had, and he took actions to make that happen, i.e. abuse, intimidation. While it is wrong to generalize and say that *all* ob/gyn clerkships are abusive, it is also wrong to generalize and say that *all* ob/gyn clerkships are fab. From my personal experience of seeing medical students at Ob/Gyn clerkships in different hospitals (key here) would be that 50% of Ob/Gyn clerkships a student will have a malignant experience. From this board, I would guess that it might be even higher. Even within a clerkship some students are atttacked constantly despite hardwork, and others somehow escape being a target. Some schools are great at medical student well-being, and others are not. I really loved the pathophysiology behind pregnancy, and helping to take care of patients as you can be really helpful in ob/gyn more than other clerkships, but still harassed to the point of tears on several occassions. Be grateful that you had a good experience, not everyone is so blessed, I asked myself several times what I did to deserve this hell in ob/gyn.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I'd like to take a moment to defend my chosen profession.

I am going into OB/GYN because I had such a great rotation experience. I have enjoyed every rotation I have done but OB was my favorite. I loved obstetrics and I like surgery. I actually have a wife and a couple of kids so coming to the realization that ob is what i want to do was difficult because I know the lifestyle is not great. I thought I would choose a "lifestyle" specialty but I have to do what I will enjoy. There are many reasons why Ob/Gyn is the ultimate specialty but I will not rehash them here. By the way, I am qualified to do any specialty based on numbers (240 step 1 and top 25% of my class).

As far as my 3rd year rotation goes, I did not experience any abuse. There was only one person (an MFM fellow) that anyone in my class had problems with, luckily I didn't really interact with her. Some in my class didn't like the rotation but it was more due to the subject matter rather than abuse from attendings or residents. Most say they enjoyed the rotation more than they expected to.

I am constantly reading about all the abuse med students have to endure on these boards and I have not seen anything remotely resembling what everyone is talking about. Not once during my entire 3rd year did I feel abused. Often I felt bored but that is not the same as dehumanized. In fact I think very few people in my class have had any sort of gripe (I'm sure there are some). I just have a hard time imagining all these horror stories I hear about (such as not being allowed to report needle sticks).

Then you are one of the lucky ones. I have heard quite the opposite, and from many sources. I have not yet talked to anyone who has told me that they loved Ob. Maybe your school is different, I don't know. If you have a hard time imagining these horror stories, be glad that none of them happened to you. For most people, abuse in Ob is common. Your experience might have been different, again, you are lucky. But it's not a coincidence that so many people dislike Ob. Why would there be a massive conspiracy to trash Ob? There is not. Many people in Ob are just plain toxic.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I'm glad you had such a good experience in medical school, and enjoyed Ob/Gyn. Personally, I wish that all medical students had a good time in Ob/Gyn, I have done Ob/Gyn clinical work at a hospital that was not where I did the core and had a FANTASTIC time, it was great interacting with the residents and attendings. So, if someone really wanted to do Ob/Gyn as a career, but hated their Ob/Gyn clerkship, this can largely be based on *where* the clerkship is done. My advice if Ob/Gyn was abusive for you, but still want it, then do a SubI or elective at another hospital. Some Ob/Gyn departments are fabulous, whereas other are frank in that they will treat you very poorly. My Ob/Gyn attending flatly stated that he was the "worst" we will ever had, and he took actions to make that happen, i.e. abuse, intimidation. While it is wrong to generalize and say that *all* ob/gyn clerkships are abusive, it is also wrong to generalize and say that *all* ob/gyn clerkships are fab. From my personal experience of seeing medical students at Ob/Gyn clerkships in different hospitals (key here) would be that 50% of Ob/Gyn clerkships a student will have a malignant experience. From this board, I would guess that it might be even higher. Even within a clerkship some students are atttacked constantly despite hardwork, and others somehow escape being a target. Some schools are great at medical student well-being, and others are not. I really loved the pathophysiology behind pregnancy, and helping to take care of patients as you can be really helpful in ob/gyn more than other clerkships, but still harassed to the point of tears on several occassions. Be grateful that you had a good experience, not everyone is so blessed, I asked myself several times what I did to deserve this hell in ob/gyn.

Right on! Now back to Case files.

 

[ChildNeuro]

Oh, come on. Not every Ob-Gyn rotation is as bad as yours.

I'm only on my first rotation, but I'm convinced that what makes a rotation miserable or tolerable and pleasant is how you approach it and also the people you are around. If you are surrounded by dinguses who want to make you miserable, then it's going to be miserable. Other than that, you may be bored, you may be tired, you may be grossed out, but you aren't going to be suffering. The exception is if you have a problem with lateness or following orders.

I don't think this true at all, if someone wants to make you a target for bening reasons they will, even if you came into the clerkship with all the motivation in world, even especially if you are motivated to do a good job, residents see this as a threat to themselves to see a hardworking medical student.

 

[mules05]

I went into OB/Gyn expecting to hate it, and I put it first so I could get it over with. So far I've ended up loving it...delivering babies is amazing, surgery is fun and usually the procedures are under 2 hours each, and even the outpatient stuff isn't that bad. I'm trying to hold off on really deciding what I want to do until the end of 3rd year, but as of now OB/Gyn is a front runner, which I never would have thought. Maybe I got lucky with the hospital I'm doing the rotation at, but everyone so far has been pretty nice. Some of the nurses act all high and mighty and can be a little bitchy when they act like they know everything and you know nothing. But let's be honest here, they're pretty much right about that, so I've learned to let it not bother me and just try to take advantage of anything I can learn from watching them. One thing that I think has made my this rotation easier has been that on each service I'll spend the first day or so really watching what's going on and understanding the routine. In the OR, for example, it's not like I can go do the operation and then report back to the resident to save them some time. But I can learn what glove sizes they need and pull gowns and gloves for them, set up the prep table, anticipate when they'll need sutures cut, etc. Just little things like that seem to save them some small amount of time and help keep their stress levels down- and I've found that when my resident knows that the OR is all set up, she'll take that extra time that she doesn't need to set up to let me know what the attending will ask or to go over info for the shelf.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I went into OB/Gyn expecting to hate it, and I put it first so I could get it over with. So far I've ended up loving it...delivering babies is amazing, surgery is fun and usually the procedures are under 2 hours each, and even the outpatient stuff isn't that bad. I'm trying to hold off on really deciding what I want to do until the end of 3rd year, but as of now OB/Gyn is a front runner, which I never would have thought. Maybe I got lucky with the hospital I'm doing the rotation at, but everyone so far has been pretty nice. Some of the nurses act all high and mighty and can be a little bitchy when they act like they know everything and you know nothing. But let's be honest here, they're pretty much right about that, so I've learned to let it not bother me and just try to take advantage of anything I can learn from watching them. One thing that I think has made my this rotation easier has been that on each service I'll spend the first day or so really watching what's going on and understanding the routine. In the OR, for example, it's not like I can go do the operation and then report back to the resident to save them some time. But I can learn what glove sizes they need and pull gowns and gloves for them, set up the prep table, anticipate when they'll need sutures cut, etc. Just little things like that seem to save them some small amount of time and help keep their stress levels down- and I've found that when my resident knows that the OR is all set up, she'll take that extra time that she doesn't need to set up to let me know what the attending will ask or to go over info for the shelf.

Wow that's nice. Most of the surgeries I observed in OB were b/in 3-4 hrs. One was almost 5 hours! In my rotation, the resident never prepared us for the pimping of the surgeons in the OR, and the teaching was practically non existent other than.

 

[greenbean]

peds was awful, and could actually be tied with family

 

[greenbean]

actually loved im, surgery and ob, didnt have much of a problem on those roatations. and psych was fun too

 

[THP]

Then you are one of the lucky ones. I have heard quite the opposite, and from many sources. I have not yet talked to anyone who has told me that they loved Ob. Maybe your school is different, I don't know. If you have a hard time imagining these horror stories, be glad that none of them happened to you. For most people, abuse in Ob is common. Your experience might have been different, again, you are lucky. But it's not a coincidence that so many people dislike Ob. Why would there be a massive conspiracy to trash Ob? There is not. Many people in Ob are just plain toxic.

I believe you that your experience was awful. I am just concerned that upcoming 3rd years will read this and expect the experience to be so horrible that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I would encourage all 3rd years to go into each rotation realizing you may never do it again and try to learn as much as you can. You will be asked about things later by family and friends. You can enjoy all of your rotations if you make an effort to do so.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I believe you that your experience was awful. I am just concerned that upcoming 3rd years will read this and expect the experience to be so horrible that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I would encourage all 3rd years to go into each rotation realizing you may never do it again and try to learn as much as you can. You will be asked about things later by family and friends. You can enjoy all of your rotations if you make an effort to do so.

I think it would be great if all 3rd years had a great Ob rotation. I simply shared my experience and it was sad that many others had similar experiences to mine. I personally went in with a great attitude and was excited initially. I would hope that everyone goes in with an attitude that they will work hard and learn lots. Hopefully, most people out there will not have as bad an experience as I did.

 

[ChildNeuro]

I believe you that your experience was awful. I am just concerned that upcoming 3rd years will read this and expect the experience to be so horrible that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I would encourage all 3rd years to go into each rotation realizing you may never do it again and try to learn as much as you can. You will be asked about things later by family and friends. You can enjoy all of your rotations if you make an effort to do so.

I agree with medstudentquest, I went into Ob/Gyn with alot of energy to do as well as possible, i.e. work as hard as possible and learn as much as possible. I and others definitely feel somewhat torn down by Ob/Gyn as the sad sense that medicine is filled with attendings who really harass medical students. I don't think it is good to feel beaten down after Ob/Gyn as alot of medical students do, where I did my ob/gyn clerkship, students referred to it as "Ob/Gyn PTSD", i.e. lasting effects of depression at being yelled at for no reason and going home to cry each day. I think that if students know how bad it can be at its worst, then they won't start beating themselves up when they see how bad it is or how bad they are harassed. . . At some point you have to disbelieve the nasty comments that really abusive attendings will make and the intimidation and threats, it gets very sureal at times, and students should know how bad it is going in. I don't think anyone can enjoy a rotation why they are personally harassed every day. Also, I think that students who want to do the best are attacked early on in ob/gyn attendings don't want to work with some one who has more energy/excitement than them, I have been told flat out that third years are not supposed to be happy

 

[getunconcsious]

I believe you that your experience was awful. I am just concerned that upcoming 3rd years will read this and expect the experience to be so horrible that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I would encourage all 3rd years to go into each rotation realizing you may never do it again and try to learn as much as you can. You will be asked about things later by family and friends. You can enjoy all of your rotations if you make an effort to do so.

I think you can enjoy elements of each clinical rotation probably, but not really have a good experience all around in some cases. For example a lot of my Gyn cases were very interesting to me. I saw a dermoid cyst (teratoma) and a hydatidiform mole while on Gyn. However, I stand by the contention that the OB portion is a miserable hellatious experience at least for me, at my school. I realize that some people have better experiences, and I'm happy for them. But I'm entitled to my opinion too. I agree with you that MS3's should reserve judgment on any rotation until they've actually started it. However, the fact that OB/Gyn is the clear front-runner in my poll and the number of horror stories related about it here is likely more than a coincidence and I believe it should really prompt some soul-searching on the part of OB/Gyn residents or attendings who may happen by this forum.

 

[Medstudentquest]

I think you can enjoy elements of each clinical rotation probably, but not really have a good experience all around in some cases. For example a lot of my Gyn cases were very interesting to me. I saw a dermoid cyst (teratoma) and a hydatidiform mole while on Gyn. However, I stand by the contention that the OB portion is a miserable hellatious experience at least for me, at my school. I realize that some people have better experiences, and I'm happy for them. But I'm entitled to my opinion too. I agree with you that MS3's should reserve judgment on any rotation until they've actually started it. However, the fact that OB/Gyn is the clear front-runner in my poll and the number of horror stories related about it here is likely more than a coincidence and I believe it should really prompt some soul-searching on the part of OB/Gyn residents or attendings who may happen by this forum.

I second this! I still say we should somehow start some sort of medical abuse awareness group or something and make some change happen.

 

[persia]

The OB course director at my school is a known bully and all around abusive personality. He has people crying in the bathroom, residents as well as students. Known reputation for writing devastating evals for students AND residents.

So, no wonder the residents are always freaking out and scared and take it out on the students. This guy should get some of the abuse he dishes out, instead most people just try and stay away and avoid him at all costs. S*** runs downhill.

I went in with a great attitude, I knew it would be hard and a real struggle but I wanted to learn and do well. OB, I was devastated at how insultingly I was treated. It was emotionally a horrible, horrible experience and I started to really think about dropping out of medicine. I think for me, it was the public humiliation by residents, nurses and some attendings. Gyn was great! and the residents were much more laid back on that service - some of them were really wonderful.

 

[Medstudentquest]

The OB course director at my school is a known bully and all around abusive personality. He has people crying in the bathroom, residents as well as students. Known reputation for writing devastating evals for students AND residents.

So, no wonder the residents are always freaking out and scared and take it out on the students. This guy should get some of the abuse he dishes out, instead most people just try and stay away and avoid him at all costs. S*** runs downhill.

I went in with a great attitude, I knew it would be hard and a real struggle but I wanted to learn and do well. OB, I was devastated at how insultingly I was treated. It was emotionally a horrible, horrible experience and I started to really think about dropping out of medicine. I think for me, it was the public humiliation by residents, nurses and some attendings. Gyn was great! and the residents were much more laid back on that service - some of them were really wonderful.

Yep, the public humiliation was pretty bad for me too. I unfortunately had the same residents for both Ob and gyn! It was a small program.

 

[ChildNeuro]

The OB course director at my school is a known bully and all around abusive personality. He has people crying in the bathroom, residents as well as students. Known reputation for writing devastating evals for students AND residents.

So, no wonder the residents are always freaking out and scared and take it out on the students. This guy should get some of the abuse he dishes out, instead most people just try and stay away and avoid him at all costs. S*** runs downhill.

I went in with a great attitude, I knew it would be hard and a real struggle but I wanted to learn and do well. OB, I was devastated at how insultingly I was treated. It was emotionally a horrible, horrible experience and I started to really think about dropping out of medicine. I think for me, it was the public humiliation by residents, nurses and some attendings. Gyn was great! and the residents were much more laid back on that service - some of them were really wonderful.

It totally blows me away that you had a similar experience to my Ob/Gyn experience, is there a factory somewhere in the Mid-West that produces these ludicrously abusive Ob/Gyn attendings?!?

 

[Medstudentquest]

It totally blows me away that you had a similar experience to my Ob/Gyn experience, is there a factory somewhere in the Mid-West that produces these ludicrously abusive Ob/Gyn attendings?!?

Maybe the Ob rotation should be dropped altogether, or maybe a week of Ob should be added to surgery. Electives could be offered during 4th year for those people interested. I think that would be great!

 

[Cholinergic]

As someone interested in OB, this makes me scared.

Do they treat the students who express an interest in OB equally bad or WORSE?

 

[lord_jeebus]

As someone interested in OB, this makes me scared.

Do they treat the students who express an interest in OB equally bad or WORSE?

The majority of people I worked with on OB were really great. I imagine that if I was interested in OB, they would have gone out of their way to teach me and promote their field.

The issue for me was that a small minority of residents and attendings were particularly malignant and I could not avoid working with them.

Incidently, most people I know who were interested in OB before the rotation are no longer planning on going into it. But some people who were not interested are drawn to it now.

 

[ChildNeuro]

Maybe the Ob rotation should be dropped altogether, or maybe a week of Ob should be added to surgery. Electives could be offered during 4th year for those people interested. I think that would be great!

I will admit that alot of what is learned in ob/gyn seems to be pretty important, maybe adding the surgical part and labor and delivery part to surgery would be good, with the outpatient part of ob/gyn added to family practice. Some places that have longitudinal clerkships could spread it out, I think that is a great idea because it would help alot as the power of ob/gyn attendings over students would be greatly reduced, and you wouldn't have to do it all the time if you had an abusive attending.

 

[ChildNeuro]

As someone interested in OB, this makes me scared.

Do they treat the students who express an interest in OB equally bad or WORSE?

I definitely think you get different treatment if you are thinking about ob/gyn. I had an interest, and probably knew more ob/gyn than most other students, but somehow this ticked off the attending, some attendings appreciate that you spent time to learn ob/gyn some before the clerkship, others don't like it because they want all third years starting out in ob/gyn to be clueless so they can rag on them about this and that . . . In terms of clinical performance you will be graded on a much harder curve that has to do with personality factors, not who would be the best ob/gyn really. A run-of the mill og/gyn attending doesn't care about some student who wants to do medicine, but if a student thinks they are cut out for ob/gyn, they will poke and prode you more than other students, maybe find something benign and make it sound horrible in your evaluation, this makes them feel like a big shot if they can assassinate people out of their field early on. It is like the big-shot orthopod that everyone interestd in getting a great letter going to orthopaedics must please to get an excellent orthopod LOR that could make or break their orthopod career. Ob/Gyns like to think of themselves as big shot surgeons too, and also try to play this game, although it is a little silly because some ob/gyn attendings don't seem to know what they are doing clinically but like to cut everyone else down and are just playing a favoritism game. Point: Be very careful how and to whom you tell about your interest in ob/gyn . . .

 

[Medstudentquest]

I will admit that alot of what is learned in ob/gyn seems to be pretty important, maybe adding the surgical part and labor and delivery part to surgery would be good, with the outpatient part of ob/gyn added to family practice. Some places that have longitudinal clerkships could spread it out, I think that is a great idea because it would help alot as the power of ob/gyn attendings over students would be greatly reduced, and you wouldn't have to do it all the time if you had an abusive attending.

I think it would be a great idea too. I haven't yet had Family medicine, but I assume that alot of the outpatient stuff done in Ob is done in FM too. I personally only had 3 days of outpatient on Ob, and got to do like 2-3 pap smears and a few breast exams only, so for me, it was worthless. The surgeries done in Ob although interesting, are the same and could easily be fit into a surgical rotation. I mean some programs have FM and IM combined, so why couldn't Ob be combined with surgery you know? For those who like Ob, they could get elective rotations during their 4th year.

 

[ChildNeuro]

I think it would be a great idea too. I haven't yet had Family medicine, but I assume that alot of the outpatient stuff done in Ob is done in FM too. I personally only had 3 days of outpatient on Ob, and got to do like 2-3 pap smears and a few breast exams only, so for me, it was worthless. The surgeries done in Ob although interesting, are the same and could easily be fit into a surgical rotation. I mean some programs have FM and IM combined, so why couldn't Ob be combined with surgery you know? For those who like Ob, they could get elective rotations during their 4th year.

There is alot to know in terms of Ob/Gyn clinical medicine, and it is well represented on the boards. I suppose realistically if you had a pregnant patient on a medicine ward they would be likely transferred to the Ob floor. I think most important for people who go into internal medicine is that female patients with lower abdominal pain may have a whole lot of ob/gyn things happening and you need to know about them. Also, internists prescribe OCPs as well, . . . I think ob/gyn is justified in taking 6 weeks for a formal ob/gyn clerkship, but maybe it should be broken up, i.e. four weeks surgery and labor and delivery added on to surgery, and two weeks of ob/gyn clinic with FP. If the teaching wasn't so malignant in some many ob/gyn clerkships this would not be a problem. Some people really wouldn't like having to do gyn and labor and delivery with surgery, which probably shouldn't be reduced in length, i.e. a long and painful experience. In the long run 6 weeks isn't long, but if you are with an abusive attending it is an eternity. . .

 

[Medstudentquest]

There is alot to know in terms of Ob/Gyn clinical medicine, and it is well represented on the boards. I suppose realistically if you had a pregnant patient on a medicine ward they would be likely transferred to the Ob floor. I think most important for people who go into internal medicine is that female patients with lower abdominal pain may have a whole lot of ob/gyn things happening and you need to know about them. Also, internists prescribe OCPs as well, . . . I think ob/gyn is justified in taking 6 weeks for a formal ob/gyn clerkship, but maybe it should be broken up, i.e. four weeks surgery and labor and delivery added on to surgery, and two weeks of ob/gyn clinic with FP. If the teaching wasn't so malignant in some many ob/gyn clerkships this would not be a problem. Some people really wouldn't like having to do gyn and labor and delivery with surgery, which probably shouldn't be reduced in length, i.e. a long and painful experience. In the long run 6 weeks isn't long, but if you are with an abusive attending it is an eternity. . .

Realistically, when an Ob related problem is suspected, those patients are sent to Ob. I know that is what has happened in my rotations, and the residents/attendings either would get an Ob consult or refer to Ob. I have not really seen pts suspected of having Ob related issues being managed by internists. Further, if a woman was pregnant, all her Ob related issues would definite be managed by her Ob and not the internist. If a woman had a catastrophic event like a ruptured ectopic or something, then I assume surgery would take care of that. So again, unless someone is going into Ob, the likelihood that one will need to manage Ob related problems is unlikely.

 

[THP]

As someone interested in OB, this makes me scared.

Do they treat the students who express an interest in OB equally bad or WORSE?

I told everyone I was interested in Ob and it didn't hurt me in anyway. In fact, I think I got more hands on experience because of it. However, based on what others have said it could be the opposite. I would try to find out from someone who has already done the rotation. Maybe ask a resident you feel comfortable with.

When I did my high-risk OB sub-I, I hung out with the residents a lot and if there was a 3rd year interested in OB they would definitely try to encourage them to consider it as a career and I think they got better treatment.

 

[goodies]

ob is full of catty, MOODY women (at least at my school) who may be nice one second and a real b*tch the next. ive never come across women so freakin catty. the women attendings are also just as moody and they have to talk in their deep voices to make themselves feel powerful... or to make up for the fact that they are not men.

the male residents and attendings in ob for some reason are not like this at all! its the women who are either pms-ing or post-menopausal! wtf!!!

i'm female, btw.

 

[ChildNeuro]

ob is full of catty, MOODY women (at least at my school) who may be nice one second and a real b*tch the next. ive never come across women so freakin catty. the women attendings are also just as moody and they have to talk in their deep voices to make themselves feel powerful... or to make up for the fact that they are not men.

the male residents and attendings in ob for some reason are not like this at all! its the women who are either pms-ing or post-menopausal! wtf!!!

i'm female, btw.

My experience has been the opposite, I've had *alot* of very dramatic male attendings in ob/gyn, they almost seemed to be defensive that they weren't women or didn't have a uterus and made up for it by being overly feminine or something. My female attendings overall were very good actually, no one trying to be overly masculine as the department has good female representation. I'm a female too, if you couldn't tell

 

[Medstudentquest]

ob is full of catty, MOODY women (at least at my school) who may be nice one second and a real b*tch the next. ive never come across women so freakin catty. the women attendings are also just as moody and they have to talk in their deep voices to make themselves feel powerful... or to make up for the fact that they are not men.

the male residents and attendings in ob for some reason are not like this at all! its the women who are either pms-ing or post-menopausal! wtf!!!

i'm female, btw.

my experience was similar as well. most of the women, with some exceptions, were nuts. the male attendings and the only male resident were laid back. the male resident even told me that i was too early when i came in at 6am one day and stuff. we should all make a cooperative effort and write a book about our bad ob experiences. lol.

 

[lipstikisntfood]

Just wanted to chime in and say that, despite being scared by what I had previously read on SDN, I am actually enjoying my OB rotation. The residents are either really nice and interested in teaching, or neutral/not mean/not nice and interested in teaching. The attendings are great, too. I guess each program has its own attitude and environment, and those factors affect everyone, from the attendings to the cleaning staff. So, for people reading who are thinking about going into OB, I would say that you just need to find a program that is a good fit for you.

 

[ocean11]

I don't think this true at all, if someone wants to make you a target for bening reasons they will, even if you came into the clerkship with all the motivation in world, even especially if you are motivated to do a good job, residents see this as a threat to themselves to see a hardworking medical student.

I agree with you 100%. I've personally seen it! My OB/GYN rotation sucked too and I was well liked by all! I hated the hours and all the scut work. The residents fought with each other non-stop, there was so much back stabbing going on among the residents and fights, even attendings and residents would argue! there was this one resident (the nicest one) who was/is pretty much blacklisted by all the attendings. This one real btchy attending wouldn't let him scrub with her! So yeah, I didn't experience it myself, but I saw it.

Nevertheless to answer the OP, for me MY ABSOLUTE worst rotation would be this one my Sub-I. I was stuck in my last clerkship (medicine) by a Hep C needle, it was pretty ****ty, but other than that and a few other gliches I liked my rotation there. Surgery was hard work too, I didn't like it, but found it somewhat interesting. OB/GYN was rough, but mainly due to the hours, I got along with everyone. All the others: Psych, Neuro, Ambulatory, ER, FP--> not bad at all! My favorite being Psychiatry!

Good Luck and take care
and a piece of advice, don't take anything personally EVER! its them NOT YOU

Cheers
Ocean11

 

[Cianide101]

Currently in peds and hating it. At least its over this week

 

[funkless]

OB-GYN is so God-awful that I can't imagine why anyone would choose the field. The hours suck, the work is nasty, the social pathos is utterly demoralizing, and everyone you work with is some shade of crazy/loathsome/creepy.

As for the female residents at my home program, I've never seen a higher concentration of ill-mannered, histrionic, anal-retentive bitches in my entire life--only one or two out of the whole bunch that aren't complete sociopaths. As for the guys, half of them are alright. The other half totally give me the creeps.

 

[Medstudentquest]

OB-GYN is so God-awful that I can't imagine why anyone would choose the field. The hours suck, the work is nasty, the social pathos is utterly demoralizing, and everyone you work with is some shade of crazy/loathsome/creepy.

As for the female residents at my home program, I've never seen a higher concentration of ill-mannered, histrionic, anal-retentive bitches in my entire life--only one or two out of the whole bunch that aren't complete sociopaths. As for the guys, half of them are alright. The other half totally give me the creeps.

So true!

 

[funkless]

I mean, honestly, there's NO teaching in our program. The residents are only interested in scutting you, yelling at you, and nit-picking over trivial mistakes (as in leaving a single blank line between the end of your note and your signature) or your semantic choices (as when my teammate was scolded, "you can't say that the patient is tolerating the procedure well; the procedure is now over. You have to say that the patient is recovering from the procedure well.") "Sorry," he replied, "I meant to say that the patient is tolerating the effects of the procedure well..."

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with these people? Is HPV-exposure known to predispose to psychosis? Maybe this is endemic neurosyphilis?

 

[Medstudentquest]

I mean, honestly, there's NO teaching in our program. The residents are only interested in scutting you, yelling at you, and nit-picking over trivial mistakes (as in leaving a single blank line between the end of your note and your signature) or your semantic choices (as when my teammate was scolded, "you can't say that the patient is tolerating the procedure well; the procedure is now over. You have to say that the patient is recovering from the procedure well.") "Sorry," he replied, "I meant to say that the patient is tolerating the effects of the procedure well..."

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with these people? HPV-induced psychosis? Tertiary syphilis?

LOL. I like the idea of tertiary syphylis! It's scary to be honest how many of these OB people act. I don't know if the field attracts people who are unstable or if normal people become unstable because of the bad environment of OB? I continue my proposition of mixing OB with surgery! I mean whatever you need to know for OB you'll still learn in FP, and there are only about 4 surgeries to know in OB. I say we add an extra week of OB to surgery and possibly one week to FP and then get rid of the 6 week OB rotation. I learned nothing in my OB rotation. The only thing I got from the was a poor sense of self esteem (temporarily), many tears, and it made me doubt my abilities for a bit. Then I talked to and read about other people's experiences and realized the problem was not me-but them!

 

[funkless]

I don't know if the field attracts people who are unstable or if normal people become unstable because of the bad environment of OB?

Well, if it's any indicator, our interns are uniformly nuts, and it's only August 4th...

It seems that insecurity fuels the fire of their Axis II issues. They don't seem to be very knowledgable, which explains why they can't teach for $hit, why they can't tolerate any subordinates deviating from their personal modi operandi, and why they can't let pass any opportunity to scold or talk down to a subordinate. The same goes for the OB nurses (esp. the scrub nurses), who constantly (and futilely) attempt to pull rank over the students.

OB-GYNs deserve their miserable lifestyle.

 

[sga814]

Thank an OB/GYN for being born.

Douche bag. (no pun intended)

 

[Medstudentquest]

Well, if it's any indicator, our interns are uniformly nuts, and it's only August 4th...

It seems that insecurity fuels the fire of their Axis II issues. They don't seem to be very knowledgable, which explains why they can't teach for $hit, why they can't tolerate any subordinates deviating from their personal modi operandi, and why they can't let pass any opportunity to scold or talk down to a subordinate. The same goes for the OB nurses (esp. the scrub nurses), who constantly (and futilely) attempt to pull rank over the students.

OB-GYNs deserve their miserable lifestyle.

Oh man, I hated the whole thing about the nurses too! And even the techs who would be like oh make sure you don't touch anything sterile! I kept thinking- I got it the first 80 thousand times when I was told not to touch anything sterile!

I also disliked very much that you were wrong either way! If you showed too much initiative, you were faulted for something or another, but if you just sat down in terror hoping no one would yell at you, you were disinterested and lazy. If you did not ask anything, you were disinterested. If you asked too much, it was because you didn't know anything. I could never make sense of what they wanted!

 

[Medstudentquest]

Thank an OB/GYN for being born.

Douche bag. (no pun intended)

Throughout history, woman have had children with no help from OB's. Do you for some reason like OB?

 

[sga814]

Throughout history, woman have had children with no help from OB's. Do you for some reason like OB?

yeah, and throughout history babies have died from birth complications and mothers have died from bleeding to death. go look up statistics from 1907 and compare with 2007.

anyways, this is pointless arguing.

 

[Medstudentquest]

yeah, and throughout history babies have died from birth complications and mothers have died from bleeding to death. go look up statistics from 1907 and compare with 2007.

anyways, this is pointless arguing.

It is pointless arguing. Have you done OB yet? If you have a good experience in OB, fabulous! But alot of people have not had such great experiences. Also, I'm sure OB's are not the only reason there has been improvement in infant mortality. It's like thanking IM doctors for the eradication of polio or the significant reduction in infectious diseases. I'm sure the 37+ years of medical advancement have a little to do with all of these improvements in health care.

 

[sga814]

It is pointless arguing. Have you done OB yet? If you have a good experience in OB, fabulous! But alot of people have not had such great experiences. Also, I'm sure OB's are not the only reason there has been improvement in infant mortality. It's like thanking IM doctors for the eradication of polio or the significant reduction in infectious diseases. I'm sure the 37+ years of medical advancement have a little to do with all of these improvements in health care.

yeah, let's wipe-off the last century of medical advancement for the sake of your argument.
and yes, i've done OB, had an ok experience. I have no plans of going into OB. But let me tell you, I at least appreciate what they do and have no interest bad-mouthing a specialty in medicine we couldn't live without.

Now- psychiatry... is a completely different issue

 

[Medstudentquest]

yeah, let's wipe-off the last century of medical advancement for the sake of your argument.
and yes, i've done OB, had an ok experience. I have no plans of going into OB. But let me tell you, I at least appreciate what they do and have no interest bad-mouthing a specialty in medicine we couldn't live without.

Now- psychiatry... is a completely different issue

I was being sarcastic! My point was that the decreases in mortality rate in kiddies is not merely simply becuase of OB's, but because of the decades of medical advancement since the 70's to now. You are lucky if you've had a good experience. Was OB your first rotation? You go to Univ of Illinois? How has your experience been at U of I?

We could do w/out OB in my opinion btw. I personally love psychiatry and am seriously considering going into it. Why do you dislike it so much?

 

[sga814]

I was being sarcastic! My point was that the decreases in mortality rate in kiddies is not merely simply becuase of OB's, but because of the decades of medical advancement since the 70's to now. You are lucky if you've had a good experience. Was OB your first rotation? You go to Univ of Illinois? How has your experience been at U of I?

We could do w/out OB in my opinion btw. I personally love psychiatry and am seriously considering going into it. Why do you dislike it so much?

Just to set you off.