Where to move forward as a pre-med with 1 year left?

[Esirec]

Hi everyone, first time posting here. Was prompted to after I got my MCAT score which was a little below what I had expected. For a little background prior to my statistics: I am currently going into my senior year at UCSD and hope to apply to Medical School the 2021-2022 cycle. I am a Californian Resident, and am Asian (hence ORM).

Main Questions for Viewers: (1) What should I do with the year I have left? (2) What schools, would you recommend looking into and or applying to in the future?

Stats:
1) School: (As mentioned above) UCSD with a Biochemistry, Cell Biology major, graduating 2021
2) Current GPA: 3.55 | Science GPA: 3.56

• Anticipated GPA by graduation: 3.61-3.63 | Science: 3.63-3.65
• Note: Upward trends (I started with a 3.0 almost the entirety of freshman year, and worked hard to improve it; not sure how much it matters)

3) MCAT Score: 508, 128/126/129/125

• I was scoring around 508-512 on the AAMC practice FL's. Everything except the Psych/Soc section were expected - I hadn't scored below a 127 before on Psych/Soc.
• Note: My main concern is I won't have enough time to retake before the 21-22 cycle given some of the extracurriculars I've planned to take.

4) Medical Experience:

1. 100+ hours of Volunteering at the Emergency Department at Jacobs Hospital by UCSD (considered Clinical)

5) Additional Experience/Extracurriculars:

1. 100+ hours as a lab assistant
2. Will be working on a research project I designed in the lab mentioned above - I have planned for this to transition into a Master's degree the following year as I wait for secondaries, interviews, and (hopefully) any acceptances
3. 100+ hours as a SI/SG leader (similar to a tutor, except employing active learning and facilitation skills to prime student's knowledge)
4. Volunteer work as a Mentor to newer leaders in that SI/SG program mentioned above

6) Anticipated LOR's [Note, I have not received nor asked for these LOR's yet. Hence "anticipated"]

1. A letter from my Ochem professor who I frequently met with at OH's and seeked advice from regarding bettering myself as a leader. Have been keeping in contact.
2. A letter from the professor/PI overseeing the lab and my research project. I have not gotten to know him well, though my hope is to develop a meaningful relationship.
3. A letter from the coordinator of the SI/SG program. I know the coordinator well, and I think I've proven myself via involvement in the program.

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My dream was to get into UCSD to stay here (I love San Diego) and or UCI (close to my home). However, given my MCAT in tandem with my below average GPA, I don't know if I'd still make it. I'm still going to apply of course - most people have recommended I apply to as many in-state schools as possible - but I feel like my chances are severely worsened. That said, from the research I've done through MSAR, I'd still be in the range of Davis and Riverside. So my hopes of a Californian medical school aren't entirely out of favor (assuming I'm not overlooking anything about the Californian schools).

Now, for things I've already considered: firstly, shadowing and or other means of clinical experience would be ideal. I'm actively looking for shadowing opportunities. Secondly, volunteer experience, likely for non-deserved communities (though alternatives should be considered). Thirdly, seeking more potential letter writers.
Note: I understand I shouldn't be doing any of these just to write them off as check boxes; I intend to make these experiences meaningful.

Please be honest, and even harsh if needed.

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[EdgeTrimmer]

Are you an URM or ORM?

 

[Esirec]

I'm ORM. I'll add that to the original post.

 

[Blueprint Med School]

Just keep doing what you've been doing, so keep volunteering, keep doing research, etc. Right now, the best thing you can do for your application is to retake your MCAT but only if you can score at least a 513+. Beyond that, just apply broadly and you might be able to get a couple MD acceptances.

Kevin W, MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I'm ORM. I'll add that to the original post.

Your stats are low for CA MD for being an Asian and your ECs are average.

 

[Esirec]

Just keep doing what you've been doing, so keep volunteering, keep doing research, etc. Right now, the best thing you can do for your application is to retake your MCAT but only if you can score at least a 513+. Beyond that, just apply broadly and you might be able to get a couple MD acceptances.

Kevin W, MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

Thanks for the comment. Both from a strategic and personal standpoint, I don't think I would want to retake it. Again, don't think I have much time, and I wasn't really breaking 512 on the FL's. 508 at least puts me in range of a few Cali schools which I wouldn't mind going to. Would follow-up by asking: any schools you'd recommend applying to out of state? I understand what the Cali schools require, but I don't know anything about out of state and what's good or not.

 

[Esirec]

Your stats are low for CA MD for being an Asian and your ECs are average.

That's what I figured, which is why I'm worrying. Given my initial goal of wanting to get into a CA school, my stats were below almost all the averages for CA medical schools. I thought my EC's were okay, but I understood there was room for improvement. Would you have any recommendations?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

That's what I figured, which is why I'm worrying. Given my initial goal of wanting to get into a CA school, my stats were below almost all the averages for CA medical schools. I thought my EC's were okay, but I understood there was room for improvement. Would you have any recommendations?

I am not an adcom, a parent to a current cycle applicant. I recommend retaking MCAT, but only if you are getting 515+ in practice tests. You already said you are planning some ECs, which ones are these?

 

[Esirec]

I am not an adcom, a parent to a current cycle applicant. I recommend retaking MCAT, but only if you are getting 515+ in practice tests. You already said you are planning some ECs, which ones are these?

Thanks for the reply. For the MCAT: I was thinking that too, but I was only ever scoring 508-513 on the practice tests (it was pretty inconsistent). I also don't know if I have enough time this year, assuming I wanted to apply for the 2021-2022 application cycle (the research project I'm planning on doing alongside still leading + volunteering takes up a lot of time). I'm really hesitant to hold off the application another year.

As mentioned above, regarding EC's: I'm trying to find shadowing opportunities. I've recently contacted some doctors I know, though as of right now no response. I also applied to be a medical scribe back in July at that same hospital I've been volunteering at, though no response as well. Aside from this, I was planning to seek non-medical volunteer opportunities, but I'm not sure how many options there are in the current state of the world (plus, not sure where to look).

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Thanks for the reply. For the MCAT: I was thinking that too, but I was only ever scoring 508-513 on the practice tests (it was pretty inconsistent). I also don't know if I have enough time this year, assuming I wanted to apply for the 2021-2022 application cycle (the research project I'm planning on doing alongside still leading + volunteering takes up a lot of time). I'm really hesitant to hold off the application another year.

As mentioned above, regarding EC's: I'm trying to find shadowing opportunities. I've recently contacted some doctors I know, though as of right now no response. I also applied to be a medical scribe back in July at that same hospital I've been volunteering at, though no response as well. Aside from this, I was planning to seek non-medical volunteer opportunities, but I'm not sure how many options there are in the current state of the world (plus, not sure where to look).

Are you open to DO?

 

[Esirec]

Are you open to DO?

TLDR: yes, I'm open to DO. Further details below. As usual, thanks for the reply, and any further advice is welcome.

My main goal as a physician was to become a primary care doctor (particularly a family doctor) - I wasn't all that interested in any specialities (obviously this could change during the 3rd and 4th year of med school). I haven't done extensive research on DO schools, though from what I understood they weren't all that different from MD programs minus those additional hours towards Osteopathic Manipulative treatment.

Thus, I'm not opposed to a DO if the outcome is the same; I'm also definitely considering the option given my below average stats for most MD programs which would instead be more suitable for DO programs. I would just need to flesh out some of those school's requirements (e.g. seems like most of the Cali DO schools require MD/DO LOR's which I don't have; also require behavioral science classes which I haven't taken).

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

TLDR: yes, I'm open to DO. Further details below. As usual, thanks for the reply, and any further advice is welcome.

My main goal as a physician was to become a primary care doctor (particularly a family doctor) - I wasn't all that interested in any specialities (obviously this could change during the 3rd and 4th year of med school). I haven't done extensive research on DO schools, though from what I understood they weren't all that different from MD programs minus those additional hours towards Osteopathic Manipulative treatment.

Thus, I'm not opposed to a DO if the outcome is the same; I'm also definitely considering the option given my below average stats for most MD programs which would instead be more suitable for DO programs. I would just need to flesh out some of those school's requirements (e.g. seems like most of the Cali DO schools require MD/DO LOR's which I don't have; also require behavioral science classes which I haven't taken).

@Goro is a DO adcom and can advise you better than anyone.

 

[Goro]

Do not retake the MCAT until you see how a cycle shakes out. Your ECs are weak and a higher score isn't going to remediate that or your < avg GPAs.

You're fine for any DO school.

Bulk up on the ECs. NOT research. Note that many of the schools on the list below are service loving.

As for a school list any of these where your stats are > their 10th %iles for acceptees (invest in MSAR Online stat!)

Miami
Jefferson (maybe)
GWU
VCU
U VM
NYMC (maybe)
Gtown (maybe)
Creighton
Albany
Rosy Franklin
Drexel
Temple
MCW
SLU
WVU
Wayne State
Tulane
Loyola
Loma Linda (only if you are SDA or a very devout Christian)
Netter
Seton Hall
EVMS
Oakland-B
Gtown
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Nova MD
UCD
UCR IF you're from the Inland Empire

Any DO program. I can't recommend Nova, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. UIW refuses to post their Boards scores, which is fishy.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

UCD

OP stats are 25 percentile for UCD. Do you think sufficient for an Asian given weak ECs?

 

[Esirec]

Do not retake the MCAT until you see how a cycle shakes out. Your ECs are weak and a higher score isn't going to remediate that or your < avg GPAs.

You're fine for any DO school.

Bulk up on the ECs. NOT research. Note that many of the schools on the list below are service loving.

As for a school list any of these where your stats are > their 10th %iles for acceptees (invest in MSAR Online stat!)

Miami
Jefferson (maybe)
GWU
VCU
U VM
NYMC (maybe)
Gtown (maybe)
Creighton
Albany
Rosy Franklin
Drexel
Temple
MCW
SLU
WVU
Wayne State
Tulane
Loyola
Loma Linda (only if you are SDA or a very devout Christian)
Netter
Seton Hall
EVMS
Oakland-B
Gtown
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Nova MD
UCD
UCR IF you're from the Inland Empire

Any DO program. I can't recommend Nova, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. UIW refuses to post their Boards scores, which is fishy.

Hey, thanks so much for this information. Again, I wasn't too knowledgeable about out-of-state schools, so this is a good starting point. It really sucks that my stats are too low for so many Californian schools, but that's my own fault and no one else's fault to blame.

At the very least, as you mentioned, I should be okay for DO schools - I'll put all the Californian DO schools on my radar (think these are okay?). I'll also be looking to find more EC's. I'm going to stick to research - it's something I enjoy alongside healthcare experience - nonetheless I'm definitely looking out for more health-related EC's. With only a year left, time is sure running short, but that doesn't mean I can't make the most out of it.

Would like to ask: I've had some confusion looking at UCR in the past. Do you absolutely have to be from the Inland empire, or would having ties/family living in the inland empire would that qualify? Even with MSAR and checking their website, I couldn't get this 100% down (I could be missing something).

 

[Goro]

OP stats are 25 percentile for UCD. Do you think sufficient for an Asian given weak ECs?

OP will need more service to others, for sure.

OP , you're fine for any DO school.

And yes, you need real ties to the Inland Empire, according to the wise @gyngyn

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

And yes, you need real ties to the Inland Empire, according to the wise @gyngyn

UCR needs Inland Empire ties not UCD which asks for ties to NorCal but does take SoCal applicants.

 

[gyngyn]

UCR needs Inland Empire ties not UCD which asks for ties to NorCal but does take SoCal applicants.

Ties to the San Joaquin Valley and rural northern CA are a target for UCD.
Everybody wants to move to NorCal (bay area)!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Everybody wants to move to NorCal!

Why?

 

[gyngyn]

Why?

It's lovely.

 

[Goro]

It's lovely.

Why?

Ever been to San Francisco????

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

It's lovely.

Parts of it. BTW, I live in NorCal.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Ever been to San Francisco????

Lived there

 

[candbgirl]

OP do you have shadowing? How about nonclinical volunteering serving the unserved/underserved in your community? I’d forget about the Research and beef up your other service ECs. When you shadow you’ll be able to get a letter for schools that request one!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Everybody wants to move to NorCal (bay area)!

Bayarea is ridiculously expensive. With Covid driven WFH, lot of people will move out.

 

[gyngyn]

Bayarea is ridiculously expensive. With Covid driven WFH, lot of people will move out.

Don't bet on it!

 

[Esirec]

OP do you have shadowing? How about nonclinical volunteering serving the unserved/underserved in your community? I’d forget about the Research and beef up your other service ECs. When you shadow you’ll be able to get a letter for schools that request one!

@candbgirl Hi, and thanks so much for the reply! I'm actively working on finding and securing shadowing opportunities - this was my priority now that the MCAT is over (with those unfortunate results). As mentioned, I do not have nonclinical volunteering in serving the undeserved/unserved in my community - that's something I would need to work on.

I understand research isn't absolutely necessary for medical schools, and that too much of it may show to some schools you may prefer research over medicine. Nonetheless, I'm genuinely interested in this lab and project, and have already confirmed with the professor I'd be working with that I'd like to take up the position. This last bunch of months leading up to the 2021-2022 application cycle the research isn't expected to take up too much time, and so I should still be able to have wiggle room to work on medical-related EC's.

 

[candbgirl]

I understand your interest in research but please remember the the schools you will be competitive at are schools that value service to the community and all schools look for some shadowing and clinical experience. Good luck as you move forward.

 

[GreenDuck12]

Agree with Goro, don’t attempt a retake unless your cycle is unproductive. A 508 is below the mean for admitted MD students but not by much. Your GPA and MCAT make CA schools a reach. Goro’s list is good with OOS friendly public programs and private programs. Should you decide to attempt a retake after an unsuccessful cycle, you need at least 5+ points of improvement but that may not be sufficient for CA programs. Simply put, CA is cutthroat.

 

[Esirec]

I understand your interest in research but please remember the the schools you will be competitive at are schools that value service to the community and all schools look for some shadowing and clinical experience. Good luck as you move forward.

I completely understand - medical school is about showing why you want to be a doctor, and valuable community service and other clinical experience get you there. I understand that just because I'm doing fancy research won't qualify me for any medical-related jobs (least it could be a nice back-up worse case). I still have time which is why I'm doing everything I can to get that latter type of experience. Also why I'm checking with others potentially more qualified than me to see what I can do.

Thanks so much. Everything everyone has been saying is really reassuring, even if there are plenty of steps left to take.

 

[Esirec]

Agree with Goro, don’t attempt a retake unless your cycle is unproductive. A 508 is below the mean for admitted MD students but not by much. Your GPA and MCAT make CA schools a reach. Goro’s list is good with OOS friendly public programs and private programs. Should you decide to attempt a retake after an unsuccessful cycle, you need at least 5+ points of improvement but that may not be sufficient for CA programs. Simply put, CA is cutthroat.

Thanks so much for the reply. I can see what you and Goro mean; I still very much have a chance to get into a school. I was just devastated upon first seeing the score since I had dreamed of getting into a CA school but now it seems very unlikely. Nonetheless, no reason to give up just because I can't go to where I desire - can't be picky with med school.

I'll be sticking to what's been said here - getting EC's up, and just staying on point with applications and information regarding med schools. Will definitely look into DO schools. I know it's very unlikely, but I'll still take up the chance of applying to the UC's since I have the room to financially while still of course applying wide. Once again, thanks for all the reassurance.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Don't bet on it!

I follow real estate closely and I am sure bay area marker will correct soon. Mark my words ☺️

 

[candbgirl]

Thanks so much for the reply. I can see what you and Goro mean; I still very much have a chance to get into a school. I was just devastated upon first seeing the score since I had dreamed of getting into a CA school but now it seems very unlikely. Nonetheless, no reason to give up just because I can't go to where I desire - can't be picky with med school.

I'll be sticking to what's been said here - getting EC's up, and just staying on point with applications and information regarding med schools. Will definitely look into DO schools. I know it's very unlikely, but I'll still take up the chance of applying to the UC's since I have the room to financially while still of course applying wide. Once again, thanks for all the reassurance.

We probably all had dream schools at some point in our journeys, but those dreams quickly shift to reality and you have to make a decision. The decision is do I only want to go to XYZ school or do I want to be a doctor.. if you want to be a doctor you do what you have to to get into A medical schools so you can achieve your goals. Nobody is guaranteed an acceptance to medical school. Close to 60% of all applicants each cycle are outright rejected. This includes applicants with stellar applications. Of course apply to reaches because you just never know but also be realistic with your overall list. Good luck!

 

[Esirec]

We probably all had dream schools at some point in our journeys, but those dreams quickly shift to reality and you have to make a decision. The decision is do I only want to go to XYZ school or do I want to be a doctor.. if you want to be a doctor you do what you have to to get into A medical schools so you can achieve your goals. Nobody is guaranteed an acceptance to medical school. Close to 60% of all applicants each cycle are outright rejected. This includes applicants with stellar applications. Of course apply to reaches because you just never know but also be realistic with your overall list. Good luck!

That's what I have to come to terms with. As many of you stated, it's not like my stats are irredeemable; in fact, I still have a solid chance at various medical schools across the country so long as I put in the work these last 8 months. Sure, some of my plans may be changed, but I can't afford to get picky nor depressed just because I didn't get exactly what I want. I have to look at what I can still do, and try my hardest at that. I have about 4 weeks before school actually starts for me again, so I'll be diving deep into looking for EC's I can enjoy that will also showcase my potential as a med student.

Again, thanks for all the advice. I really just needed some reassuring words from others.

 

[Esirec]

Do not retake the MCAT until you see how a cycle shakes out. Your ECs are weak and a higher score isn't going to remediate that or your < avg GPAs.

You're fine for any DO school.

Bulk up on the ECs. NOT research. Note that many of the schools on the list below are service loving.

As for a school list any of these where your stats are > their 10th %iles for acceptees (invest in MSAR Online stat!)

Miami
Jefferson (maybe)
GWU
VCU
U VM
NYMC (maybe)
Gtown (maybe)
Creighton
Albany
Rosy Franklin
Drexel
Temple
MCW
SLU
WVU
Wayne State
Tulane
Loyola
Loma Linda (only if you are SDA or a very devout Christian)
Netter
Seton Hall
EVMS
Oakland-B
Gtown
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Nova MD
UCD
UCR IF you're from the Inland Empire

Any DO program. I can't recommend Nova, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. UIW refuses to post their Boards scores, which is fishy.

Hey @Goro, could I ask: by CUHS, do you mean CHSU, one of the three DO schools in California? Aside from having limited rotation sites, are there any notable issues with it being too new?

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro, could I ask: by CUHS, do you mean CHSU, one of the three DO schools in California? Aside from having limited rotation sites, are there any notable issues with it being too new?

Yeah, the new CA DO school. My concerns are exactly what you described.