when ya just need a personal day! excuses!

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gaba101

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alright. lets cut to the chase, there are certain days when you really need to take a "personal" day off to take care of loose ends (be it family, errands, etc).

here's a thread for when you really need an excuse to miss 1 day of work or rotations for "personal' reasons where taking a "personal" day off is NOT excusable. What kinds of excuses have you given for missing 1 day of rotation or even work that is NOT seasonal?

(for instance can't say "residency interview" since match day is over; can't say "job interview" if you already told your preceptor your doing a residency).

since we're in the healthcare field, i'm always afraid of using "i'm sick" (like common cold type, nothing life-threatening) because your co-workers can always ask what kind of antibiotics you took (like casually for fun in a conversation)

OK, i really need a day off from rotations but can't find an excuse and know if i tell the truth i'll get in trouble w/ my preceptor because it's not legit. my rotation site has pretty stringent attendance policies and i do not want to burn any bridges and i can't change my other appointment time. doctor's appt won't work because those things usually last a few hours and i need to a day off (if that makes any sense). i dont have any family, so no calling in in the morning that I have a sick baby.

in all seriousness...

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alright. lets cut to the chase, there are certain days when you really need to take a "personal" day off to take care of loose ends (be it family, errands, etc).

here's a thread for when you really need an excuse to miss 1 day of work or rotations for "personal' reasons where taking a "personal" day off is NOT excusable. What kinds of excuses have you given for missing 1 day of rotation or even work that is NOT seasonal?

(for instance can't say "residency interview" since match day is over; can't say "job interview" if you already told your preceptor your doing a residency).

since we're in the healthcare field, i'm always afraid of using "i'm sick" (like common cold type, nothing life-threatening) because your co-workers can always ask what kind of antibiotics you took (like casually for fun in a conversation)

OK, i really need a day off from rotations but can't find an excuse and know if i tell the truth i'll get in trouble w/ my preceptor because it's not legit. my rotation site has pretty stringent attendance policies and i do not want to burn any bridges and i can't change my other appointment time. doctor's appt won't work because those things usually last a few hours and i need to take like 5 hours off (if that makes any sense). i dont have any family, so no calling in in the morning that I have a sick baby.

in all seriousness...

Say you have food poisoning. Just need the day to sit on the toilet and hydrate, be back to work tomorrow. :thumbup:
 
This is total bull. Grow up. In the real world, you don't get these days off. This is high school stuff. "I don't want to go to school today, Mommy." You suck it up and work around your schedule be it work or your rotations.

This is the help with a really creative lie thread. Very professional indeed....
 
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If you want to miss work, have kids. They are sick all the time and then they make you sick and then they get sick again and then you get sick...
 
If you really need a personal day that badly, your body will come down with some stress disorder. Or you'll catch something contagious that's going around. Headache, stomach pains, body aches. You'll feel so awful, you'll wish that you're back at work and feel healthy again.

Seriously, if you feel you need a day off, can't you just ask for a day off? It's starting to be spring. Do you get any vacation time? Can you ask for a long weekend to go camping? It's way better to be honest in these situations. The worst they can do is say no. Murphy's law though, is that if they say no, you'll come down with some awful sickness that same time you asked for the day off, so be prepared to go to the doctor and get a note. ;-)

I imagine you don't work every day of the week constantly. Sometimes, I find you feel better if you just actually take one of your scheduled days off and do something fun. Go to a play. Have a party with friends. Do something touristy in town. You'll feel better, as if you had a mini-vacation.

By the way, if you just have a common cold, or told your coworkers that, why would your coworkers ask you what antibiotics you took????
 
This is total bull. Grow up. In the real world, you don't get these days off. This is high school stuff. "I don't want to go to school today, Mommy." You suck it up and work around your schedule be it work or your rotations.

This is the help with a really creative lie thread. Very professional indeed....

you never ever took a personal day and said you were sick?
 
ill/hospitalized family member (mother, father, brother, sister, etc.). say you have to go visit them on x day.
 
If you need a personal day off, then ask for a day off. No need to lie about it. If you're sick, call in sick.

When people used to ask for a day off, I never refused it unless it would have jeopardized patient care. Then again whenever someone gave me a lip service about why day off was needed, I could see right through it.

Some employers will give you 2 personal days per year on top of the regular paid time off. I don't really need to know why you need the day off. If you have rightfully earned the time off, just request it and take it. I rather have my employees enjoy the day off instead of performing unproductive work wishing they were elsewhere.

I agree with Oldie on this one. Don't play high school games. You're a professional now.
 
Oh..this one pharmacist used to call in last minute to tell me that his wife was having a surgery. I tell you what..his wife must have had about 3 surgeries in 6 months.
 
Oh..this one pharmacist used to call in last minute to tell me that his wife was having a surgery. I tell you what..his wife must have had about 3 surgeries in 6 months.

medical documentation req'd
 
CVS'll do that to ya.
 
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CVS? Personal day? :laugh:

in all honesty though. your company (employer) is supporting you, your family, your lifestyle, and your home, and counting on you to generally be a decent person to them given what theyve invested in you. why would you dick around your employer by coming up with some convoluted lie? Just tell them you want a day off, if it's possible within your employment framework, you'll get it. if all else fails just take a sick day. dont you get a certain number of sick days a year ?? (im not sure, some companies call them personal days some call them sick days - just whenever you're taking off but not taking vacation time). If not, then just freaking take a vacation day! That's why they give them to you!
 
in all honesty though. your company (employer) is supporting you, your family, your lifestyle, and your home, and counting on you to generally be a decent person to them given what theyve invested in you. why would you dick around your employer by coming up with some convoluted lie? Just tell them you want a day off, if it's possible within your employment framework, you'll get it. if all else fails just take a sick day. dont you get a certain number of sick days a year ?? (im not sure, some companies call them personal days some call them sick days - just whenever you're taking off but not taking vacation time). If not, then just freaking take a vacation day! That's why they give them to you!

if you work for CVS, you'll need 365 vacation days a year to stay sane. ;)
 
you never ever took a personal day and said you were sick?

Never...... I show up for work every day. I get enough days off and I get enough vacation. I don't need to play hookey.......

Look, nobody works seven days a week. I have no trouble with needing a day off. Everyone needs an MHD (Mental Health Day) once in a while. I'll be taking one tomorrow and taking a long weekend.

But I don't come up with some lame excuse to deceive my employer. I arrange it in advance. If employers were smart they would not separate personal and sick days, they would just give you PTO (Paid Time Off).

If you call out last minute with a lame ass lie, you are creating a problem for your store, your company and your colleagues. It is unethical and immoral. So grow up and don't do it....
 
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Man you are a grumpy frumpy. Do you sleep with a "I love corporate America" teddy bear to keep the laid back people out of your dreams. Sounds like you need about 10 MHDs in a row.

I've never called in sick EVER, but I do not see anything wrong with it. If employers were not so insane about using time off people wouldn't need to make up stories to get a break. My wife works for a company where she can call in the morning and say she is not coming in. She doesn't need to give a reason and they don't give her a hard time. That is the way it should be.

I wish everyone went to PTO instead of sick/personal/vacation days. Then I could use my sick time (which is rightfully mine) without pretending i'm sick.

Too bad it wasn't like Europe where we got enough vacation and time that we didn't need to take mental health days
 
I have no problem with calling in sick if you are sick. I have a problem with calling when sick when you are saying "Mommy, I don't want to go to work today, I have a belly ache."
 
alright. lets cut to the chase, there are certain days when you really need to take a "personal" day off to take care of loose ends (be it family, errands, etc).

here's a thread for when you really need an excuse to miss 1 day of work or rotations for "personal' reasons where taking a "personal" day off is NOT excusable. What kinds of excuses have you given for missing 1 day of rotation or even work that is NOT seasonal?

(for instance can't say "residency interview" since match day is over; can't say "job interview" if you already told your preceptor your doing a residency).

since we're in the healthcare field, i'm always afraid of using "i'm sick" (like common cold type, nothing life-threatening) because your co-workers can always ask what kind of antibiotics you took (like casually for fun in a conversation)

OK, i really need a day off from rotations but can't find an excuse and know if i tell the truth i'll get in trouble w/ my preceptor because it's not legit. my rotation site has pretty stringent attendance policies and i do not want to burn any bridges and i can't change my other appointment time. doctor's appt won't work because those things usually last a few hours and i need to a day off (if that makes any sense). i dont have any family, so no calling in in the morning that I have a sick baby.

in all seriousness...

Dude...suck it up and go learn. Residency is a whole lot worse than student rotations. If you don't like the schedule now, I don't know how you will handle things come July.
 
in all honesty though. your company (employer) is supporting you, your family, your lifestyle, and your home, and counting on you to generally be a decent person to them given what theyve invested in you. why would you dick around your employer by coming up with some convoluted lie? Just tell them you want a day off, if it's possible within your employment framework, you'll get it. if all else fails just take a sick day. dont you get a certain number of sick days a year ?? (im not sure, some companies call them personal days some call them sick days - just whenever you're taking off but not taking vacation time). If not, then just freaking take a vacation day! That's why they give them to you!

I never called out a day of work in my days as an intern or pharmacist at CVS. With my job now it's easier but the only time I had to call out was when I was stuck at an airport because I could not make the flight back home. If you work retail, you have to realize that YOU ABSOLUTELY have to be at work when you are scheduled or else the pharmacy cannot function. That's just the way it is.
 
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What's a personal day off?

I never took a day off from rotation just for the fun of it or to do personal stuff in my life, there is plenty of time . My son did get sick and I took him to the doc and stayed home to watch over him. I think as a full time student, full time mom, I felt like I was judged, or would be judged for taking days off using my offspring as an excuse. So, I made extra sure to never ask for days off unless I could back up my claims, I've always offer to bring proof of ped visit for the kid. That was it.

Patient care is something one must embrace 100%. A day off from rotation for the sake of it must sound an innocent idea, but it establishes a pattern of how you are going to behave once licensed and out there in your community.

I've once learned a valuable lesson: " An excuse sounds good only to the person presenting it "
 
This is total bull. Grow up. In the real world, you don't get these days off. This is high school stuff. "I don't want to go to school today, Mommy." You suck it up and work around your schedule be it work or your rotations.

This is the help with a really creative lie thread. Very professional indeed....

Amen.

I don't understand how people expect to be paid as a professional, treated as a professional, and respected as a professional, but don't want to ACT as a professional!! "Why do I have to wear a tie??" "Why can't I call in sick if I don't feel like working?" "Why do I have to work with mean people?" "I shouldn't have to...(fill in the blank)..." We're lucky that we only work 5 days/week. If you were trying to make it in the legal or business worlds, you'd be pulling regular weekends and nights just to get a leg up. Whiners.
 
Patient care is something one must embrace 100%. A day off from rotation for the sake of it must sound an innocent idea, but it establishes a pattern of how you are going to behave once licensed and out there in your community.

Bull****. I missed a few days off of rotations...because some of the ones I got were a waste of my time. But I've never called off of work saying I'm sick...because work actually matters to me 100%.
 
Bull****. I missed a few days off of rotations...because some of the ones I got were a waste of my time. But I've never called off of work saying I'm sick...because work actually matters to me 100%.

exactly, i also missed a few days here or there from rotations, but that has never affected or influenced my behavior at actual work.

its a whole different story when u have your license and are on the payroll.
 
Bull****. I missed a few days off of rotations...because some of the ones I got were a waste of my time. But I've never called off of work saying I'm sick...because work actually matters to me 100%.

hum....let see the logic..I skipped rotation where I am taking care of patients (no matter in which way..even if it's opening boxes of iv drugs for 30 days)....,but eh would never skip work where I also take care of patients..I guess those patients are differents since money changes everything. After all it's not the same care I am providing..yay me. No matter how boring, at the end of the day what you do end up affecting patient care.

I stand by what I say, people behavior don't change..skipper one day, skipper you are.
 
hum....let see the logic..I skipped rotation where I am taking care of patients (no matter in which way..even if it's opening boxes of iv drugs for 30 days)....,but eh would never skip work where I also take care of patients..I guess those patients are differents since money changes everything. After all it's not the same care I am providing..yay me. No matter how boring, at the end of the day what you do end up affecting patient care.


Bull****. You don't know the situation. I'm talking about rotations where I did nothing relevant to anything. I had two of them. The rest were acceptable to great. And to compare what I do every day to what I did on rotations is ridiculous. Never once did I ever really feel needed on rotations.

And if all a person were to do was open iv drug boxes for 30 days, I hope to God they would skip a day or two. There's a fine line between being a good soldier and being a person that is too damned oblivious to realize that they are jumping through hoops for no real reason.

Hell, let's talk about high school. My god, I had a (from what I'm told) school record 150+ detention slips my senior year in high school because I never showed up to any of my study halls. Has this negatively affected me in any way? No.

I stand by what I say, people behavior don't change..skipper one day, skipper you are.

Wow, it must suck to be so obviously wrong as I've never called off of work for an illegitimate reason.
 
hum....let see the logic..I skipped rotation where I am taking care of patients (no matter in which way..even if it's opening boxes of iv drugs for 30 days)....,but eh would never skip work where I also take care of patients..I guess those patients are differents since money changes everything. After all it's not the same care I am providing..yay me. No matter how boring, at the end of the day what you do end up affecting patient care.

I stand by what I say, people behavior don't change..skipper one day, skipper you are.

i guess i was "taking care of patients" when i was on a rotation where i spent 50% of the time cleaning glassware...
 
i guess i was "taking care of patients" when i was on a rotation where i spent 50% of the time cleaning glassware...

Yep..you don't want a family member to be using drugs or whatever from a dirty glassware because the student on rotation decided that task was too low for him/her..maybe they should have given that task to the nursing student on rotation? or to noone..who need clean glassware?...Unless the glassware they made you cleaned were to be used to feed goats...it does affect patient care..but hey..just my 2 cents.

I don't have to be wrong , you don't have to be right. I think my school just did a good job at preparing us for the "unusual" rotation..they told us that there would be time where you would be doing stuff where you question the rotation site but to always keep in mind the big picture.."if I was not doing this task , does someone still need to it in order to accomplish something for the patient or help the site in any way?"
 
Yep..you don't want a family member to be using drugs or whatever from a dirty glassware because the student on rotation decided that task was too low for him/her..maybe they should have given that task to the nursing student on rotation? or to noone..who need clean glassware?...Unless the glassware they made you cleaned were to be used to feed goats...it does affect patient care..but hey..just my 2 cents.

I don't have to be wrong , you don't have to be right. I think my school just did a good job at preparing us for the "unusual" rotation..they told us that there would be time where you would be doing stuff where you question the rotation site but to always keep in mind the big picture.."if I was not doing this task , does someone still need to it in order to accomplish something for the patient or help the site in any way?"

No offense, but are you even on rotations yet?

I understand and applaud your commitment to professionalism, but its not exactly a smart idea to preach those ideas to those who have already earned that PharmD. You will understand that not all of the 1000+ hours that you will do on you rotations will impact patient care.

Btw, as pointed out by wvpharm07 many of the rotation sites already have enough help and you the student are just an extra hand. there will be times when things will be slow and there will not be much for you to do/learn.

i ask any of you who continue to preach this "professionalism" if any of you have ever missed a lecture or class. I guess a lot of these students are still brainwashed by the faculty in doing all these great things once you become a pharmacist when a good 50% of whom will graduate and work retail and will have to spend time price checking doritos.
 
oups my bad..I just updated my status just for you:D

listen, i don't intend to be in a flame war or anything its just that while its good to have a mentality of professionalism at the same time you have to realize that there are certain times where you can pick your battles.

rotations do exist for the purpose of learning for the student but why does the student have to pay that 20k-40k tuition for that year to basically work for free? i understand that clinical rotations are important but what about the retail ones and others where you are just there as an extra body?

i'm all for the sake of education, but it bothers me how the faculty will lead you to believe that you are learning all these great things and that you have to do it for the sake of "professionalism" when at times you are just being exploited by the system for free labor. do you really think CVS Pharmacist Preceptors want you there solely for learning purposes? No. Depending on the person they will teach you things about the job but at least half the time you are just there to provide labor.

It is a good quality for someone in pharmacy school to have critical thinking skills, other than journal clubs the structure of these programs do not promote it
 
listen, i don't intend to be in a flame war or anything its just that while its good to have a mentality of professionalism at the same time you have to realize that there are certain times where you can pick your battles.

rotations do exist for the purpose of learning for the student but why does the student have to pay that 20k-40k tuition for that year to basically work for free? i understand that clinical rotations are important but what about the retail ones and others where you are just there as an extra body?

i'm all for the sake of education, but it bothers me how the faculty will lead you to believe that you are learning all these great things and that you have to do it for the sake of "professionalism" when at times you are just being exploited by the system for free labor. do you really think CVS Pharmacist Preceptors want you there solely for learning purposes? No. Depending on the person they will teach you things about the job but at least half the time you are just there to provide labor.

It is a good quality for someone in pharmacy school to have critical thinking skills, other than journal clubs the structure of these programs do not promote it

You know the activities you are advocating are wrong so you need to justify why it's OK to skip them. There is a great deal of crap you learn in school that is just that crap, but you learn it anyway because it is required. It is required that you complete your rotations. Compete them. Just grow up, shut up and clean the glassware.

When you are in charge of a university program you can award the student personal days where they can take off whenever they feel they are wasting their time. That way they can go shopping or play video games.

I don't know why this is such a hard concept to get across except for the fact that society is so narcissistic that what the individual wants is all important and you can justify anything if it makes me feel better.
 
What you didn't know is that I chose to do 1 more rotation (200 more hours) than what was required in my program. Yes, so out of the 7 of 9 mandatory rotations I was supposed to do for my last year, I actually did 8 out of 9 rotations and paid extra tuition for it. And guess what, in those 1600 hours that I was on rotation, I only missed 3 days (court date, illness, and a half a foot of snow) so please get off your high horse.

I am in no way advocating students to skip or take days off just when they feel like or if or when the new Madden comes out, I'm just saying that there is some fluff on these rotation sites so if there is something important going on (court date) or if you are sick, or if there is inclement weather, you don't have to kill yourself in getting to the rotation site.

listen, i've worked in retail the past 3 years, I think I would be the first and last person to understand the value and importance of being present and punctual. And the fact of the matter is that you will never get away with doing any of these things once you become licensed and are a registered healthcare professional in the state, not because of some law that says so, but because of the responsibility that comes with it to your employer as well as to the public.
 
What you didn't know is that I chose to do 1 more rotation (200 more hours) than what was required in my program. Yes, so out of the 7 of 9 mandatory rotations I was supposed to do for my last year, I actually did 8 out of 9 rotations and paid extra tuition for it. And guess what, in those 1600 hours that I was on rotation, I only missed 3 days (court date, illness, and a half a foot of snow) so please get off your high horse.

Again, you are rationalizing unethical behavior. If you sign up to complete a rotation, you complete it. By the way, this thread is not about excused absences. This is about a day off to:
take care of loose ends (be it family, errands, etc).

This thread is about how you can scam your school and take off because you just don't want to go to school.

School is where you learn to act professionally and responsibly.....
 
8 out of 9 rotation?!! not fair

I did 11 rotations plus 2 selectives. Which were worst than being on rotation, not the walk in the park I was hoping for. One of them actually gave us enough work to fill a 40 hours work week and was proud of it. I was like r u 4 real:eek:)..for a total of 13 months on the grill.
 
8 out of 9 rotation?!! not fair

I did 11 rotations plus 2 selectives. Which were worst than being on rotation, not the walk in the park I was hoping for. One of them actually gave us enough work to fill a 40 hours work week and was proud of it. I was like r u 4 real:eek:)..for a total of 13 months on the grill.

how long were your rotations though? In my state (NJ) their requirements are only 1000 hours so its not much. for my school each rotation was 5 weeks each i believe.
 
This thread is about how you can scam your school and take off because you just don't want to go to school.

scam your school? Ididn't think paying $40K in tuition to work for FREE for retail is SCAMMING THEM as it is THEM SCAMMING ME out of my education. you couldn't even PAY ME enough to work there yet now I have to PAY YOU to do your retail donkey's asses' work. so yes, if i want to take a day off and go get a tan on the beach instead of count/pour/lick in your retail, then i will (but that's not the real reason why I am taking a day off) - in all seriousness, i'm not going to go thru all that extra trouble of finding additional time to meet my family's needs when i waste 40 hours/week PAYING YOU to wipe your ****ty shelves in the retail store

bottom line difference btw you and I - the company PAYS YOU to do the hard labor. I PAY YOU to do do your hard labor (yes, that's negative income, in case you didn't notice) - and being in retail, it's most likely negative knowledge as well. if I ain't learning, it's the 1st to go when there are bigger serious things to take care of.
 
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The fact of the matter is, you should still be showing up, even if it is negative income. I've had 3 terrible rotations so far where I learned very little, spent most of the time doing grunt work (none of these 3, by the way, were in retail), and I've never made up a reason to miss a day. However, the real problem is that NO ONE complained about these rotations in the years before. So, suck it up for 4 weeks (or however long your rotations are), and then reflect your feelings in your evaluations of the sites. If you don't have evaluations at your university, make sure to leave your feedback with your rotation coordinator so they know where problem rotations are.

There's an important point to make here...for those that are sick of doing grunt work for free while paying tuition...if you really aren't learning anything, tell your preceptor that you're not happy! And don't tell them the second-to-last day you're there, either. You'd be surprised what you might get out of the rotation once you make your feelings clear. And, if your preceptor doesn't care, THEN you can reflect this in your evaluation. It's never a good idea to throw your preceptor "under the bus" at the end of a rotation...and if you think about it, you wouldn't want them doing it to you.
 
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how long were your rotations though? In my state (NJ) their requirements are only 1000 hours so its not much. for my school each rotation was 5 weeks each i believe.

Ours were 1 month even ..from the 1st to the end of the month, not in weeks. My School has joined a trend that I believe very few schools have opted for. A year and half on the road instead of 1 year like most schools.
 
scam your school? Ididn't think paying $40K in tuition to work for FREE for retail is SCAMMING THEM as it is THEM SCAMMING ME out of my education. you couldn't even PAY ME enough to work there yet now I have to PAY YOU to do your retail donkey's asses' work. so yes, if i want to take a day off and go get a tan on the beach instead of count/pour/lick in your retail, then i will (but that's not the real reason why I am taking a day off) - in all seriousness, i'm not going to go thru all that extra trouble of finding additional time to meet my family's needs when i waste 40 hours/week PAYING YOU to wipe your ****ty shelves in the retail store

bottom line difference btw you and I - the company PAYS YOU to do the hard labor. I PAY YOU to do do your hard labor (yes, that's negative income, in case you didn't notice) - and being in retail, it's most likely negative knowledge as well. if I ain't learning, it's the 1st to go when there are bigger serious things to take care of.


This logic is totally irrelevant to your original topic. In fact, it's a different topic in all. Your original intention was to start a cute thread where everyeone chimes in and give excuses for a day off. Basically lie and get out of the rotation which some of us felt was unprofessional. Now, instead accepting lying to get a day off is an unprofessional behavior, you imply your school's inadquate rotation system and high tuition to justify why you need a day off.

There is nothing wrong with you not wanting to do free labor even though it's required by your school which you have chosen to earn Pharm.D. from. However, lying to your preceptor to get out for a day is wrong. If you need a day off, then ask for it.
 
If you don't have evaluations at your university, make sure to leave your feedback with your rotation coordinator so they know where problem rotations are.

I have found some of these preceptors are so hard-headed that no matter how many ways you politely talk to them about not learning anything EARLY on in the rotation, many don't (or perhaps can't) change. And there's really no point to the evaluations since the evaluations = extra work (time, energy, typing/talking effort) that benefit only FUTURE students, not me. i know, sounds selfish, :sleep:
 
I have found some of these preceptors are so hard-headed that no matter how many ways you politely talk to them about not learning anything EARLY on in the rotation, many don't (or perhaps can't) change. And there's really no point to the evaluations since the evaluations = extra work (time, energy, typing/talking effort) that benefit only FUTURE students, not me. i know, sounds selfish, :sleep:

If you're not willing to take the time, then don't complain. Laziness won't get you anywhere.
 
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If you're not willing to take the time, then don't complain. Laziness won't get you anywhere.

Pls look at the original post - the intent of the thead was NOT to complain ABOUT the rotations. THe original purpose, and it seems most people have deviated, was on excuses from rotations.
 
Pls look at the original post - the intent of the thead was NOT to complain ABOUT the rotations. THe original purpose, and it seems most people have deviated, was on excuses from rotations.

Then what's wrong with being honest and asking for a day to tie up loose ends? It's obvious you haven't asked for a day off by telling the truth, since you're looking for an "excuse."
 
Pls look at the original post - the intent of the thead was NOT to complain ABOUT the rotations. THe original purpose, and it seems most people have deviated, was on excuses from rotations.

Well, it seems that the whole reason why you want to skip rotations in the first place is a) you don't like yours, and/or b) laziness. So I don't really think this post has deviated at all, we're just debating why people seem to need to find excuses in the first place.
 
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