What's so good about Goucher College????

[hokiemon]

Hi,

I've seen the great acceptance rate to med-schools from Goucher and was just curious what makes that program, or rather the graduates of that program, such appealling candidates to medical school. I heard they have like a 95% acceptance rate in to medical schools.

It's nothing against Goucher, but they don't have a medical school of there own and was just wondering how or why are they sending more students (perecentage wise) to med school then Johns Hopkins.

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[Pemulis]

There are a two important reasons:

1. Admissions to Goucher is very selective. Last year, for example, they only took about 20% of applicants. Although exceptions do occur, the typical Goucher post-bac student went to a good undergrad, has a gpa of at least 3.5, and a proven history of doing well on standardized tests (SAT or GRE). In other words, Goucher tends to take people who are already pretty likely to get into med school if they apply themselves to it. Other parts of the Goucher app, such as the interview and essay, are also there to weed out people who aren't really committed to making it through.

2. Once in, Goucher offers its students amazing support in every facet of the program. Class sizes are very small, and tutoring is available to make sure that students are able to do well in their courses. Extensive MCAT prep is included. Workshops are held regularly to help polish your essays and prep you for med school interviews. Students are hooked up with cool volunteer opportunities so they get great experience on their resumes. And so on. In other words, the program really goes all out to make sure that every one of their students has the best possible chance to succeed. A lot of the other big name post-bacs (Columbia, or Hopkins, for example) are known more for coasting on their names. Goucher and Bryn Mawr are reputed to do the most to help their students make it. (I'm only talking about schools on the east coast here, by the way; I'm less familiar w/ post-bacs in other parts of the country).

 

[hokiemon]

Thanks for the info.. Whew, now who's going to prep me for the postbac interview at Goucher lol...

 

[titicaca]

A lot of the other big name post-bacs (Columbia, or Hopkins, for example) are known more for coasting on their names.

Um I beg to differ. Where do you get your info? As far as I know Hopkins is a new program and so far they have 100% acceptance. I don't think that's "coasting".

 

[hokiemon]

I think you got it all wrong. He was just saying that students from those schools have that advantage of being from a big name program. Think about it. If you hear Johns Hopkins you think ok big time medical facilities, lots of research spending, and other positive things related to medical sciences. Therefore graduates of those programs have that in there favor that they have a postbac from a school w/ such an impressive reputation.

Meanwhile Goucher which does not have a medical school produces bright, hard-working, talented students that are trained in the sciences, taught study technques for MCATs, assisted with finding volunteer work and prepped on the whole admission process. Basically a program designed to produce med school students.

This is what I'm gather from the post. I don't think the poster meant it as an insult.

 

[Kateroni18]

I think you got it all wrong. He was just saying that students from those schools have that advantage of being from a big name program. Think about it. If you hear Johns Hopkins you think ok big time medical facilities, lots of research spending, and other positive things related to medical sciences. Therefore graduates of those programs have that in there favor that they have a postbac from a school w/ such an impressive reputation.

Meanwhile Goucher which does not have a medical school produces bright, hard-working, talented students that are trained in the sciences, taught study technques for MCATs, assisted with finding volunteer work and prepped on the whole admission process. Basically a program designed to produce med school students.

This is what I'm gather from the post. I don't think the poster meant it as an insult.

Perhaps the above poster was trying to express that Hopkins also produces bright, hard-working students with lots of opportunities that are well prepped for the admissions process...they don't just have a good reputation because of the name???? Admittedly, the name may help, but in the adcom's eyes I'd think Goucher Postbac is a pretty big name too. To people "out of the know" Hopkins probably sounds more impressive though.

Good luck at your Goucher interview!

titicaca, are you a Hopkins postbac?

 

[Pemulis]

Thanks for your defense, Hokieman. I couldn't have said it better myself. Believe me, I meant no offense to anybody, nor did I mean to suggest that students at Hopkins, Columbia, etc. aren't every bit as bright and talented as people coming out of Goucher. The fact remains that Goucher has a reputation for "holding their student's hands" a little more than those other programs, that's all. A school like Columbia doesn't need to do as much for their post-bac students; they're Columbia, and a degree from them will always be worth a lot. That's all I meant by "coasting".

 

[hokiemon]

Sure no problem. I just wanted to get a relative idea of what each program offers and what make each program command the respect it does as I've been seeing from some of there great acceptance rates.

I myself am a resident of the dc metro area and intend on applying to all the local postbac programs such as Johns Hopkins, Goucher, and American.

Any other programs in the area?

Also, I'm somewhat uncertain on what committeees are looking for in the interview for the postback program. I'm assuming they want to understand your intentions for pursuing postbac studies and how determined/dedicated you are to a career in medical sciences and service.

Thanks.

 

[Pemulis]

Any other programs in the area?

If you're willing to go about two hours north to Philly, the program at Bryn Mawr is outstanding.

Also, I'm somewhat uncertain on what committeees are looking for in the interview for the postback program. I'm assuming they want to understand your intentions for pursuing postbac studies and how determined/dedicated you are to a career in medical sciences and service.

That's pretty much it. A good rule of thumb for any interview in life is to consider what the other party's interests are. In the case of a post-bac program, their interests lie in:

1. Seeing if you'd fit in well with their program.
2. Seeing what your motivations are for studying medicine and how much thorught you've really put into it.
3. Making sure you will work hard and stick with the program to finish up even when the going gets rough.
4. Finding out if you are good material for getting into med school. This last point is critical. A post-bac's success in recruiting students is based on their past success in getting their grads into med school. So they want to make sure that you are somebody who is ultimately going to make it, and hence be a credit to their program. If you get invited to interview, it's probably because they think your numbers are good enough. But getting into med school itself is ultimately very much about how well you interview, so they want to see if you come to such events well groomed and well dressed, if you are affable in person, and if you handle the stress of an interview with poise and maturity.

Good luck. If you have any questions about Goucher in particular, I'm about to start their program, so I might be able to answer them.

 

[AmyGW]

Also, they told me specifically at my Goucher interview that they try to weed out ultra competitive people in the interview process, even if they are otherwise good candidates. They say that they like to foster an environment of cooperation, etc., so they don't want anyone in the program who is a psychotic gunner. I'm sure a few of them end up slipping through the cracks, but they'll definitely have reservations about anyone who appears outwardly competitive.

Don't sweat your interview. They will ask you everything you expect and nothing you don't. I didn't get thrown any hardballs, but if your application is lacking anything in particular (ie high test scores or a lot of experience in a healthcare setting), they'll no doubt ask you about it.

 

[dragoncardinal]

It pains me to do this, but I think people deserve to know some things about Goucher. I completed the Goucher program within the past few years. My experience and that of my friends' showed me that if you do well in the program, they will support you, but if you do not, they will cut the legs out from under you.
I excelled in the Goucher program and linked to one of the med schools affiliated with the program. I only received the best support from the program's directore. It was a positive experience for me. Unfortunately, a couple of my friends in the program did not have good experiences. Goucher admits people it expects to do well in the program and get into medical school. If you get good grades, they really help you when you apply to medical school. However, two friends of mine struggled in the program and got some C's. The director of the program discouraged them from applying to medical school and undercut their confidence in meetings at the end of the year. It was only through their own strength of character that they found the will to apply to med school anyway. At least one of them was accepted to a good med school this year.
I do not think that the program director gave them the advice she did with their best interests in mind. She was trying to maintain the program's 100% med school acceptance rate. I can't really blame her for this since it's the program's business, but considering how much you pay for the program, you deserve to know that if you struggle in the program and fail, you will not get any help from them when it comes time to apply to med school. I suspect this is true from some of the other top programs in the country.

 

[CUarzt]

i think you hit the nail on the head, dragoncardinal: although i'm not familiar with the goucher program and its details, my experience has emphasized to me that these schools and respective committees are indeed businesses (in practice and, i often believe, in spirit)

my experience with the "HCEC" (health careers evaluation committee at cornell) as an undergrad were similar to those of dragoncardinal's friends (ie, little support if there was sub-par hope for your admission)

although the hcec is not required, it is viewed poorly if you do not use the service

i think it is best to shuck one's cynicism while under the gun (applying, reflecting, performing) and keep in mind the process and those involved are indeed a business; you must be hungry for the goal and persistent throughout the process

...just my $.02...

 

[Pemulis]

It pains me to do this, but I think people deserve to know some things about Goucher. I completed the Goucher program within the past few years. My experience and that of my friends' showed me that if you do well in the program, they will support you, but if you do not, they will cut the legs out from under you.
I excelled in the Goucher program and linked to one of the med schools affiliated with the program. I only received the best support from the program's directore. It was a positive experience for me. Unfortunately, a couple of my friends in the program did not have good experiences. Goucher admits people it expects to do well in the program and get into medical school. If you get good grades, they really help you when you apply to medical school. However, two friends of mine struggled in the program and got some C's. The director of the program discouraged them from applying to medical school and undercut their confidence in meetings at the end of the year. It was only through their own strength of character that they found the will to apply to med school anyway. At least one of them was accepted to a good med school this year.

I’m just starting the Goucher program now, so I can’t comment on it through the lens of much experience. So far, I’ve really enjoyed it, but I won’t second guess the thoughts of somebody who actually has already gone through the full year.

I will say two things, though, to give a bit of perspective on what dragoncardinal has to say. First, I have met quite a number of alum from the program, particularly students who just finished this past spring and who haven’t left Towson yet. Without exception, they have given the program rave reviews, even the one’s who have had some complaints about a few specific things. So while it is no doubt true that some people have had bad experiences at Goucher, this seems by far to be the exception, and not the rule.

My second point would be that I don’t see what dragoncardinal is saying as being very shocking. Going to a reputable post-bac such as Goucher can give you the best possible chance at getting to med school, but it cannot guarantee your ultimate success. It is still up to you to achieve once you get there. Goucher does provide a very supportive environment in which to study (small class sizes, accessible professors, post-bac classes are separate from the undergrads, there’s a full-time TA just for the post-bac students, courses aren’t graded on a curve, etc.) Because of this, the vast majority of its students excel and ultimately get to medical school—a fact which compares quite favorably to most of the other big name post-bacs. But inevitably, if you have 30 students a year every year, sooner or later some are going to come along who, for whatever reasons, don’t excel despite all of these advantages. In such cases, it doesn’t seem so unreasonable that the program would not support these student’s candidacies to med school. The fact that the program is protecting its own rep in doing so doesn’t change the fact that students with a bunch of C’s on their science transcripts ARE going to have a hard time getting in to medical school. That part isn’t Goucher’s fault.

The bottom line: of course Goucher is a business, but what they’re selling is the chance to do your pre-med work in a unique environment, where your chances of ultimately succeeding are much, much, higher than almost anywhere else, and where you might actually kind of enjoy your pre-med year. What they are not and cannot sell are guarantees. In the end, wherever you go for your pre-med work, it’s ultimately up to you to make your dreams happen.

My .02. Good luck, everyone.

 

[CUarzt]

pemulis, i think you have also put it very well: indeed it is up to oneself to make his dreams happen

and it is a privilege to be under the favorable circumstances (ie tutelage and support) goucher provides

and i suspect anyone with experiences similar at all to those posting on this thread would agree with our observations

also, do not take dragoncardinal's narrative or my own observations on the business nature as critiques of the program into which you are about to matriculate--
good luck to you at goucher; you seem to have your head on perfectly straight about the whole experience

..more than my $.02

 

[NapeSpikes]

As a Goucher alum myself, I'd have to agree with pretty much all the replies to this message. One thing though, for those just starting off: it's pretty hard to get a C in the program because everyone in your class is trying to get into med school and the profs know this. They're going to do whatever they can to help you to succeed, and the TA will too. I'm not trying to put down anyone, because I know life circumstances could come up and your mind might not be focused on grades, but seriously, you would have to fail like all your tests to get a C. Which is possible if you slack off or had a life crisis during the year, but highly unlikely if you put in the study time and effort. (This is how the current profs are, I can't speak for dragoncardinal's year.)

That being said, prepare to work your butt off. It was, overall, a very wonderful and rewarding year, and a great learning experience. I say this not as someone who breezed through the program, but as someone who struggled and at times failed, but who got through it and that's all that matters. Good luck to everyone!

 

[LiftsIron]

Can anyone give me more specific information concerning GPA/SAT/GRE averages for students accepted into the Goucher post-bac program? Would someone who has a ugrad gpa (from the #2 public university in the country) of 3.5 and a SAT score of 1400 likely be accepted or at least interviewed? I have taken 3 science classes (Intro to Bio, Anatomy and Physiology, and Physics I), will that count against me?

 

[NapeSpikes]

Can anyone give me more specific information concerning GPA/SAT/GRE averages for students accepted into the Goucher post-bac program? Would someone who has a ugrad gpa (from the #2 public university in the country) of 3.5 and a SAT score of 1400 likely be accepted or at least interviewed? I have taken 3 science classes (Intro to Bio, Anatomy and Physiology, and Physics I), will that count against me?

Your numbers are fine, but having taken three courses already is pushing it. The program is only eight classes total. Still, I believe there was at least one person in my class who had three done, and several who had two. They just make you take other stuff like calc or spanish to be a full-timer. This is assuming you did well in those three science classes. If not, and you have a low bcpm to begin with, the odds are pretty slim. I guess the only way to find out is if you apply--at worst you lose the $50 app fee. Good luck!

 

[seethrew]

Sure no problem. I just wanted to get a relative idea of what each program offers and what make each program command the respect it does as I've been seeing from some of there great acceptance rates.

I myself am a resident of the dc metro area and intend on applying to all the local postbac programs such as Johns Hopkins, Goucher, and American.

Any other programs in the area?

Also, I'm somewhat uncertain on what committeees are looking for in the interview for the postback program. I'm assuming they want to understand your intentions for pursuing postbac studies and how determined/dedicated you are to a career in medical sciences and service.

Thanks.

i know someone who did not get accepted to goucher did night classes at umd but i dont know if it was a specific program. he ultimately got into med school.

 

[seethrew]

It pains me to do this, but I think people deserve to know some things about Goucher. I completed the Goucher program within the past few years. My experience and that of my friends' showed me that if you do well in the program, they will support you, but if you do not, they will cut the legs out from under you.
I excelled in the Goucher program and linked to one of the med schools affiliated with the program. I only received the best support from the program's directore. It was a positive experience for me. Unfortunately, a couple of my friends in the program did not have good experiences. Goucher admits people it expects to do well in the program and get into medical school. If you get good grades, they really help you when you apply to medical school. However, two friends of mine struggled in the program and got some C's. The director of the program discouraged them from applying to medical school and undercut their confidence in meetings at the end of the year. It was only through their own strength of character that they found the will to apply to med school anyway. At least one of them was accepted to a good med school this year.
I do not think that the program director gave them the advice she did with their best interests in mind. She was trying to maintain the program's 100% med school acceptance rate. I can't really blame her for this since it's the program's business, but considering how much you pay for the program, you deserve to know that if you struggle in the program and fail, you will not get any help from them when it comes time to apply to med school. I suspect this is true from some of the other top programs in the country.

hmmm. i think i know of whom you are speaking of. and i think i heard the same info. however, i don't know if the poor advice was solely from an acceptance standpoint. i think the advisors can be helpful, but you def have to go wit your gut. none of the advisors were in our shoes, none are md's. i applied to a school that they did not think was good, and i got in with a lot of aid. they aren't perfect of course. MOST of their advice was good i thought. however, i was not a C student. i came out of the program with a slightly odd perspective on the process. i didn't realize until much later that they were not grooming us to just get IN, but to get in GREAT places. i think they err on the side of caution for everyones sake. perhaps they can be too anal, but maybe i have a hard time swallowing corporate truths. meh.

if you are speaking of the peeps i think you might be... it goes to show you that strength of character can take you further than any name or program you go to... booyah! cheers to that!