What to put in a "I'm ranking you #1" email?

[Firewood]

I don't plan on it. As I see it, it's of no benefit to me, no benefit to the program, and I don't feel lIke there's any obligation or courtesy to do so. That's my $0.02.

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[duckie99]

Published in December in Academic Medicine:


Full text article (free): http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...revalence_and_Nature_of_Postinterview.32.aspx

I just want to point out that after looking at this abstract... there is no indication programs were lying to applicants. It didn't say the percentage of people who were told they were "ranked to match" and of those people who also ranked said program #1 actually matched there. It just says that 18% of applicants who "felt assured" they would match at a place (note... this does not mean the programs said the applicant was "ranked to match") if they put it #1 did not always match at that place. This also means that 82% of applicants who "felt assured" they would match at a place, and then putting that place #1, did match there (a good statistic from an applicant's standpoint). Essentially this means that applicants should not take a statement such as "ranked highly" or "fit well" to mean that the program has put them high enough to guarantee a match.

it also shows that the vast majority of applicants don't seem to send multiple #1 rank emails which imo should indicate to programs this is likely something they can trust - not to mean that they will/should alter their own rank list because of receiving or not receiving one. I would say that if a program doesn't trust it in general then this is likely because the program is not always truthful (liars often think other people lie just as much).

 

[mopper]

I have three more interviews left. Should I send my "no. 1" program an email as I will rank them " No.1"?
PD from that program knows that I have more IVs left though. Seems I'm desperate?

 

[EMmotherhen]

I just want to be clear here:

1. I am assuming you are in EM based on your name, a relatively large field compared to the smaller surgical fields for example.

2. You call our schools/LOR writers and get confirmation on questions you might have... sounds reasonable and expected when necessary. I don't see why a student would have an issue with that.

3. My main question: you call another PD at a different program (or vise versa) that is not our home school/program/home PD and discuss the candidates each of your programs has interviewed and your respective rank lists as well as "I'm ranking you #1 emails"? And you are in EM, a large field with a lot of applicants and programs... Really? You guys do this?


note: I'm only going to send one "I'm ranking you #1 email" for what it's worth. I'm just curious as to what goes on with programs...

No - we do not call the schools you interviewed at because we don't know where you interviewed. There's nothing hostile about the process so I apologize if I made it sound that way. But application questions come up and talking is easiest. I have never asked if a PD got a #1 email from any student and will not as it's not my business but if that PD mentions it to me then I have to wonder if I got the same message. We do not discuss how we arrange our rank lists because that is never a good idea! I have no idea what your final rank list looks like and no one knows what mine is.

 

[shan564]

I have three more interviews left. Should I send my "no. 1" program an email as I will rank them " No.1"?
PD from that program knows that I have more IVs left though. Seems I'm desperate?

They probably won't overanalyze it. If it's true, it's true.

 

[XRanger]

So going back to what's actually in the "I'm ranking you #1" email, do you guys just write a short sentence saying I'm ranking your program #1, or do you actually write a paragraph on why that program is #1 for you?

Also what do you guys think about asking your home chair/PD to make call on your behalf to your #1 program?

 

[HHH3]

I wrote "Dear Dr. Program Director: I am writing you to let you know that I am ranking [your program] number one on my rank order list. Thank you, Zofran."

I sent a similar email to my #1 program a week ago, but didn't get a reply. I've been wondering if I should have explained in more detail why I made that decision, although I had done that in my thank-you email a month back. Are you sure it's ok to just say it in such straightforward manner?

 

[emboli]

I'm getting very conflicting information regarding sending #1 emails and match violations. I've heard multiple people tell me that you can't tell programs that they are your #1. Others say that it is only a match violation when they ask you to give that info to them. In other words, if you are telling them out of your own will with no coersion, it is perfectly fine.

 

[HHH3]

I'm getting very conflicting information regarding sending #1 emails and match violations. I've heard multiple people tell me that you can't tell programs that they are your #1. Others say that it is only a match violation when they ask you to give that info to them. In other words, if you are telling them out of your own will with no coersion, it is perfectly fine.

I think we have reached the consensus here that it's totally right to send #1 emails. But I am asking about the wording of the email. Is it ok for it to be so straightforward or does it have to be sugar-coated a little? I preferred the former to make sure I don't bore the PD and make sure he actually gets to read what I want to tell.

 

[mcl]

I think we have reached the consensus here that it's totally right to send #1 emails. But I am asking about the wording of the email. Is it ok for it to be so straightforward or does it have to be sugar-coated a little? I preferred the former to make sure I don't bore the PD and make sure he actually gets to read what I want to tell.

There's no standard email to send. Say what you want to say. Don't expect a reply. If you do get a reply, don't be surprised if it seems noncommittal / generic. Don't let the response (if you get one) convince you to change your rank list. That doesn't mean you couldn't change your mind--but change it because you think you'd ultimately be happier / better trained elsewhere, not because of post-interview emails (or lack therof). That's a sure way to make sure you don't end up where you really want to be.

 

[235009]

I'm getting very conflicting information regarding sending #1 emails and match violations. I've heard multiple people tell me that you can't tell programs that they are your #1. Others say that it is only a match violation when they ask you to give that info to them. In other words, if you are telling them out of your own will with no coersion, it is perfectly fine.

if only there was a way to actually read the rules

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/policies/map_main.html#comm


advice for life: don't trust important things (like this) on what random strangers say on an internet forum

 

[GoSpursGo]

I'm getting very conflicting information regarding sending #1 emails and match violations. I've heard multiple people tell me that you can't tell programs that they are your #1. Others say that it is only a match violation when they ask you to give that info to them. In other words, if you are telling them out of your own will with no coersion, it is perfectly fine.

You can tell programs whatever you want. They can tell you whatever they want. A match violation occurs when either of you ASKS the other about their rank. This is laid out very clearly on the NRMP's website http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/ensuring.html

-A program director "guarantees" an applicant that he/she will rank the applicant within the program's quota, but only if the applicant will rank the program first on his/her rank order list.
-An applicant "guarantees" a program director that he/she will rank the program first on their rank order list, but only if the program director will rank the applicant within the program's quota.

 

[HHH3]

There's no standard email to send. Say what you want to say. Don't expect a reply. If you do get a reply, don't be surprised if it seems noncommittal / generic. Don't let the response (if you get one) convince you to change your rank list. That doesn't mean you couldn't change your mind--but change it because you think you'd ultimately be happier / better trained elsewhere, not because of post-interview emails (or lack therof). That's a sure way to make sure you don't end up where you really want to be.

Since you are a school admin, I'm not sure if you receive such emails, but are you convinced by such short straightforward emails about the ranking? Can it harm the applicant if it's not convincing enough?

 

[mcl]

Since you are a school admin, I'm not sure if you receive such emails, but are you convinced by such short straightforward emails about the ranking? Can it harm the applicant if it's not convincing enough?

I receive a lot of the emails directly, and the ones I don't receive get forwarded to me for inclusion in the applicant's file. I attend the rank meetings and hear the discussions. I certainly can't speak for every program, but I'm relatively confident in saying that if you don't match at your first choice, it won't be because of this email.

At my program the emails are given little weight regardless of their length. We don't ask applicants not to contact us, so it can't hurt an applicant to express interest. That said, we probably get the "ranking you first" from a quarter to a third of our applicants, and "ranking you highly" from most of the rest. We hardly ever change the ROL in response to emails.

I won't pretend we don't love it when we get a "ranking you first" email from applicants in our guaranteed-to-match zone, but I don't order the lab coats until I see the match list. There have been more than a few occasions when I received a "ranking you first" email from applicants I thought were too far down on our list to match with us, and I hoped they would be happy wherever they ended up. Surprise! They matched with us after all!

So send your email if it will ease your mind. Make it short and to the point, or expound on why you think you're a great fit. Since you can't know for sure how the receiving PD will respond, all you can do is whatever will help you sleep at night between ROL submission and Match.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

As usual, will totally agree with mcl.

There's no "right" way to send these emails. And, honestly, they probably don't matter at all.

I've gotten enough "ranking you #1" emails and then not matched candidates that I really don't read much into them.

Bottom line is that both of us should use the same ranking strategy: you should rank programs in the order you want them, I should rank candidates in the order I want them.

 

[HoldTheCoffee]

As usual, will totally agree with mcl.

There's no "right" way to send these emails. And, honestly, they probably don't matter at all.

I've gotten enough "ranking you #1" emails and then not matched candidates that I really don't read much into them.

Bottom line is that both of us should use the same ranking strategy: you should rank programs in the order you want them, I should rank candidates in the order I want them.

I hope other PDs are following your example! I am from one of the coasts and I am constantly asked if I am going to go back (answer: no). I'm afraid some of the midwest places I really like might knock me down a few spots because they're comparing me to people who are more local.

 

[Krogershopper]

So, here is a neurotic yet important question from the opposite perspective (apologies if it's already been asked):

If you are sure a program is #1 on your rank list, would telling them that they are #1 possibly be detrimental? As in, doesn't it create an incentive for a strategic PD to now rank you a little lower (now that they know they can depend on you to match with them if other "stronger" applicants who also express interest match elsewhere)?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

So, here is a neurotic yet important question from the opposite perspective (apologies if it's already been asked):

If you are sure a program is #1 on your rank list, would telling them that they are #1 possibly be detrimental? As in, doesn't it create an incentive for a strategic PD to now rank you a little lower (now that they know they can depend on you to match with them if other "stronger" applicants who also express interest match elsewhere)?

If there are stronger applicants, they are likely going to be ahead of you on the rank list regardless.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If there are stronger applicants, they are likely going to be ahead of you on the rank list regardless.

Correct. My ranking strategy is the same as yours. Rank applicants in the order I want them, ignoring how likely they are to match with me. This assumes that residents will be "happy enough" with their match anywhere on their list (else I might try to adjust my list to avoid people who have ranked me low on their list) and that I'm not evaluated on how low down the list I go.

 

[iPodtosis]

I told multiple programs that I would be honored and happy to be a resident there and would be glad to work with them in the future, but never told any program they are my #1 because I am still working on my list. Is that also considered dishonest??? I did that because I really like those programs and would be happy if I match at any one of those....

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I told multiple programs that I would be honored and happy to be a resident there and would be glad to work with them in the future, but never told any program they are my #1 because I am still working on my list. Is that also considered dishonest??? I did that because I really like those programs and would be happy if I match at any one of those....

It's not considered dishonest, but these are the types of emails that we are talking about that add nothing to the strength of your application.

All this tells a program is that you are probably ranking them somewhat highly, but not #1.

 

[gasthrowaway]

It's not considered dishonest, but these are the types of emails that we are talking about that add nothing to the strength of your application.

All this tells a program is that you are probably ranking them somewhat highly, but not #1.

I agree, and that's why I didn't email anyone but my #1. The way I see it, if they get an email from me and I say something vague like, "you'll be ranked very highly on my list," they know they aren't your #1 choice, and they're just a back-up. B/c if they were your #1, you'd just outright say it.

Everyone has their own opinion on how to wade through this last month. I emailed my #1, told them they were my #1, and I don't plan on emailing anyone else.

 

[FloatOn]

I haven't seen any mention, at least in this thread, of how those doing couples match should approach the "I'm ranking you #1" email. I'm going to assume that it doesn't matter but couples match can be quite different sometimes. My significant other and I are applying to different specialties but we have a number of institutions/hospitals in common that we really like. If we decide that our #1 is the same place, it's not just the right fit for us individually, but for us as a couple wanting to be in the same city as well. How does a program view a couple stating that both people are going to rank that program #1?

 

[foodle]

My significant other and I are applying to different specialties but we have a number of institutions/hospitals in common that we really like. If we decide that our #1 is the same place, it's not just the right fit for us individually, but for us as a couple wanting to be in the same city as well.

It's already been stated many times that the programs basically put no weight on a #1 email. To layer on top of that expecting some kind of inter-departmental coordination on rank lists based on couples matching #1 emails is pretty unrealistic. Put another way, what's zero squared?

How does a program view a couple stating that both people are going to rank that program #1?

To be clear, you and your SO are not applying to the same program (department/specialty). You're applying to the same institution, but in different departments. Again, inter-departmental coordination on rank lists based on #1 emails seems highly unlikely. One of the few times you'll see any kind of inter-departmental coordination on hires is on attendings and spousal hires (e.g., Dept X really wants Bob. Dept X asks dept Y to make an offer to Bob's wife to help lure Bob.)

 

[FloatOn]

It's already been stated many times that the programs basically put no weight on a #1 email. To layer on top of that expecting some kind of inter-departmental coordination on rank lists based on couples matching #1 emails is pretty unrealistic. Put another way, what's zero squared?


To be clear, you and your SO are not applying to the same program (department/specialty). You're applying to the same institution, but in different departments. Again, inter-departmental coordination on rank lists based on #1 emails seems highly unlikely. One of the few times you'll see any kind of inter-departmental coordination on hires is on attendings and spousal hires (e.g., Dept X really wants Bob. Dept X asks dept Y to make an offer to Bob's wife to help lure Bob.)

That's fine since we're going back and forth on our #1 and we may not have a final decision until the last minute.

 

[Law2Doc]

I still think if a couple of applicants are essentially equal, but one clearly has expressed more interest in the program than the other, that often does affect ranking of those two people. It wont move you from the middle of the pack to the top of the rank list, but could it move you from being ranked 52 to 51? Probably. And in a bad year where a program drops low on their rank list, that one spot theoretically could come into play. Just saying -- probably won't make a difference but "probably" and "definitely" are different words for a reason.

 

[551151]

In my oppinion if you are not sure who you are ranking 1 but would like to express genuine interest - just write an email to the PD/Faculty and i guess finish with a "I truly hope I match there". Its not promising you will rank them 1 yet it shows you want to be part of their program. I did this for my top 2 as I am still trying to decide who I want to put number 1.

 

[Law2Doc]

In my oppinion if you are not sure who you are ranking 1 but would like to express genuine interest - just write an email to the PD/Faculty and i guess finish with a "I truly hope I match there". Its not promising you will rank them 1 yet it shows you want to be part of their program. I did this for my top 2 as I am still trying to decide who I want to put number 1.

While that intuitively makes sense, I'd worry that any letter that doesn't say you are my #1 will be read by some as you are not my #1.

 

[swamprat]

While that intuitively makes sense, I'd worry that any letter that doesn't say you are my #1 will be read by some as you are not my #1.

But then like you said, does it matter anyway good or bad? I mean your still showing interest, so I can't see them saying "oh f this guy lets move him down the list because he didn't say #1" - but I could see them just looking at it being like oh thats nice and never thinking about it again - the same with #1 emails too I think but if anything would move you up even a spot I feel it would be a #1 email and thats a big maybe.

 

[551151]

I really don't think it matters...i am not sure many applicants have made up their mind at this time time anyways - still have 20 some days to decide? I guess the point is that I am not lying and I am clearly showing a genuine interest. When I do decide on my number 1 program - I'll send a quick one or two lines stating that to the respective program.