Wash U vs Northwestern vs Pitt vs Icahn

[elbowtienoodles]

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[voxveritatisetlucis]

Wait until you get financial info.

 

[elbowtienoodles]

@Goro I would love your opinion since your help crafting my school list played a major role in me having such a great cycle!

 

[KnightDoc]

Wait until you get financial info.

This^^^^.

With all due respect, I get that you are anxious and want to get going, but if you say money is a factor, and you are still waiting for two T5 schools, then you are wasting everyone's time, including your own, until you have all the information!

They really are all great schools, and your SO will be going with you regardless, so there is no "best education possible" among those 4. They are all T20, and will get you wherever it is you are going. Wait for the financial information, and then choose based on that, location and vibe.

If you get Harvard and/or Columbia, you'll just be back with another post, and the responses will be totally different.

 

[Goro]

@Goro I would love your opinion since your help crafting my school list played a major role in me having such a great cycle!

First off, congrats on all the successes!!!!
I agree that you need to wait until you have all your financial offers in front of you.

Don't let a bad interview day be the reason to turn down a school, unless it was absolutely toxic, and/or you lost sleep over it.

Stop thinking about specialties now. You're going to change your mind anyway.

I am getting a whiff of the small town kid not being happy in the big city. If this is true, then Bloomington or one of the IU centers are the places for you.

If all the $ offers are equivalent, then pick the school with the cheapest tuition. Your 50 year old self will thank you, and if you end up in ENT anyway, your salary as an attending will still be the same as the kid who went to Harvard or Pitt or Cornell.

Don't make such a big decision on "I've never been there before".

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Preface: I am from the Midwest, and have never been to the places I am accepted to but feel both excited and intimated at living somewhere totally new! My SO is moving with me, so I will have a support system anywhere I go so distance isn't from home isn't a huge factor. I am interested in a competitive specialty and, as of now, am thinking ENT, Money is a factor, but my happiness and feeling like I am receiving the best education possible is the most important. Due to the lack of financial information from any school, please just consider with all things being equal. I would also like to just hear some unbiased opinions on the schools regardless of finances. Thanks for any help in advance!

• Wash U
  • Pro
    • Half-tuition merit scholarship, waiting on need-based
    • Feel like I like the new curriculum
    • Have really enjoyed every interaction with students and admission (since interview). School has been in close contact and the students are all lovely.
    • St. Louis seems similar to my hometown
    • High residency-director score and highest U.S. NR ( I know this doesn’t really matter too much)
    • Ideal class size
  • Cons
    • Bad interview day experience
    • Only match around 1 student for ENT each year, which is what I am interested in, not sure how to interpret this.
    • Crime in the surrounding areas
    • reputation for students being competitive, but I did not get this vibe.
• Northwestern (have not received any financial aid so far)
  • Pros
    • Hospital system seems great
    • Really liked the integration of the free clinics into the curriculum
    • Pass-pass grading
    • really nice and chill students
    • Living in Chicago could be cool
    • Not too far from family
    • Liked interview day and students
    • Facilities seems great
  • Cons
    • Living in Chicago would be expensive and kind of intimidating coming from a small town
• Pitt (have not received financial aid so far)
  • Pros
    • Really liked their curriculum
    • Mandatory research project
    • Enjoyed interview, nicest/chilest students.
    • The city is similar to my hometown
  • Cons
    • Don’t really have any cons, but the school is a little less well-known, which is not a huge deal for me
• Icahn (Have not received financial aid so far)
  • Pros
    • Had a great interview day
    • Liked that the medical school is inside of the hospital
    • Living in NY could be cool
  • Cons
    • Never been to NYC and am intimidated by living in such a big city
    • cost of living

I am also waiting to hear back from Columbia and Harvard. I really loved Columbia and would consider it my favorite based on my interview day. I really liked Harvard as well, but do not see it as being realistic. If I got into either of these schools, how would that change your opinion compared to the schools above?

I have also been accepted to UVA, Ohio State, Case Western, IU, U Chicago, and Dartmouth. I am not considering these schools as much as the four above, but please let me know if you think I am overlooking any of these schools and should consider them more seriously. I have not received financial aid from any of them so far.

Thank you all so much for any help and opinions!

ENT is the hardest specialty to match at this point. You need to pick the most prestigious place to maximize your chance.

 

[deleted1114112]

ENT is the hardest specialty to match at this point. You need to pick the most prestigious place to maximize your chance.

The schools OP listed are all literally ranked 11-17 lmao, like are you actually suggesting OP makes a decision based off of....1 USNews rank level?

 

[deleted555445]

Just came here to say that this list is crazy and that even the schools you've already eliminated are awesome. I think any of your options would be great and would set you up for ENT. My thought would be 1) finances? and 2) where do you eventually think you want to settle with your SO? You can go anywhere from any of these schools, but they're all going to set you up best to stay local. I would definitely wait until the financials are all in to make this call, but maybe start talking with your SO about cities/regions of the country that best suit you both.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

The schools OP listed are all literally ranked 11-17 lmao, like are you actually suggesting OP makes a decision based off of....1 USNews rank level?

You think Harvard and Icahn are the same when it comes to matching at ENT? Even among the list, WashU is head and shoulders above the rest

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Seeing as even at Harvard, half the class goes into primary care, matching ent will come down solely to how well the OP performs in med school

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Seeing as even at Harvard, half the class goes into primary care, matching ent will come down solely to how well the OP performs in med school

Untrue. Coming out of HMS, OP can walk into any top ENT program regardless their performance, which is moot out of a top5 medical school.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Untrue.

Which part?

I mean just look at any “current residents” ent page. Most of them will have gone to lower ranked schools than the ones OP is considering.

Otolaryngology Head and Neck Residency

ent.georgetown.edu

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Which part?

I mean just look at any “current residents” ent page. Most of them will have gone to lower ranked schools than the ones OP is considering.

Otolaryngology Head and Neck Residency

ent.georgetown.edu

That doesn’t mean most t5 graduates don’t just walk into a top program… btw gtown is not a top program at all.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

What about NYU (top ranked via USNWR). Current residents from stony brook, Hawaii, medical college of Georgia, Miami, rush, george Washington

Otolaryngology—Head & Neck Surgery Medical Student Education | NYU Langone Health

NYU Grossman School of Medicine offers medical students rotations in ear, nose, and throat disorders and related structures of the head and neck.

med.nyu.edu

I think the OP will be fine coming from any of the schools mentioned.

Again we are talking about where t5 graduates go.. you are telling me where residents come from in those random programs. That has nothing to do with how easily it is for a HMS graduate to match into a top ent program. NYU is another very middling ENT program. Seriously, you don’t have a clue how competitive ENT is… so don’t say OP will be fine coming from any of the schools. When it comes to ENT and NSGY, school names matter a ton. Just because there are residents coming from X and Y schools, it doesn’t mean it’s equally easy to match from school X and school Y

 

[elbowtienoodles]

First off, congrats on all the successes!!!!
I agree that you need to wait until you have all your financial offers in front of you.

Don't let a bad interview day be the reason to turn down a school, unless it was absolutely toxic, and/or you lost sleep over it.

Stop thinking about specialties now. You're going to change your mind anyway.

I am getting a whiff of the small town kid not being happy in the big city. If this is true, then Bloomington or one of the IU centers are the places for you.

If all the $ offers are equivalent, then pick the school with the cheapest tuition. Your 50 year old self will thank you, and if you end up in ENT anyway, your salary as an attending will still be the same as the kid who went to Harvard or Pitt or Cornell.

Don't make such a big decision on "I've never been there before".

Thank you so much! I have definitely not let the interview day at WashU diminish anything, as I've had extremely positive interactions with admissions and students in all the activities since then. Probably the best post-interview communication and engagement out of all the rest.

As far as location, I would say I am viewing city life as both an exciting and daunting opportunity and would be willing to try anything for four years since I have built-in support. I am definitely not ruling anything out based on location at this point and feel each place could be fun (and I would only be left with one school on my list if I went based on that!) Since I have only lived in a few places, it may be good to branch out! I honestly have no preference when it comes to long-term location plans and I hope to figure out what kind of region and lifestyle is best between my experiences in school and residency. I hope to visit a few of these places in person to get a feel, but I would say I am definitely not opposed to city life, nor is it a must-be. Similarly, as someone from the midwest, the weather is definitely not a concern or deciding factor since I've experienced the full spectrum haha.

But once again, thank you so much for all your past and current advice. It has genuinely been so extremely helpful to someone completely clueless about this process!

 

[deleted1114112]

You think Harvard and Icahn are the same when it comes to matching at ENT? Even among the list, WashU is head and shoulders above the rest

Head and shoulders above the rest? What?

Even if we would consider that, WashU has sent literally 1 person/yr to ENT in the past 2 years with a 5 year high of 2. This is less than even my state school, and is dwarfed by NU's 4 per year and Pitt.

Unless WashU students consistently hate ENT for some reason and don't apply, then there is literally public information directly denying your claim lmao. Of course that is legitimately possible, since the sample is so small. But with that being said even if you look at other schools in the 1-20 range, WashU is actually ironically just nearing dead last.

 

[elbowtienoodles]

Just came here to say that this list is crazy and that even the schools you've already eliminated are awesome. I think any of your options would be great and would set you up for ENT. My thought would be 1) finances? and 2) where do you eventually think you want to settle with your SO? You can go anywhere from any of these schools, but they're all going to set you up best to stay local. I would definitely wait until the financials are all in to make this call, but maybe start talking with your SO about cities/regions of the country that best suit you both.

Thank you so much! I guess my biggest struggle is the amount of freedom I have with choosing a location because I have literally no location preference in terms of med school or my long-term location. Since I have only lived in small towns, I feel I have no idea what kind of region or lifestyle I would like and I feel excited (and nervous) for all the possibilities! Due to the nature of my SO's job, he can get a job anywhere and also is open to living anywhere.

So I guess at this point it truly will come down to finances!

Thank you once again for your kind response!

 

[elbowtienoodles]

This^^^^.

With all due respect, I get that you are anxious and want to get going, but if you say money is a factor, and you are still waiting for two T5 schools, then you are wasting everyone's time, including your own, until you have all the information!

They really are all great schools, and your SO will be going with you regardless, so there is no "best education possible" among those 4. They are all T20, and will get you wherever it is you are going. Wait for the financial information, and then choose based on that, location and vibe.

If you get Harvard and/or Columbia, you'll just be back with another post, and the responses will be totally different.

I totally agree with you and really appreciate your response. Upon reflection, I probably rushed into making this post (due to anxiety as you mentioned!) I am a little overwhelmed and don't really have anyone in real-life to run by my options, help interpret match data, etc so I feel pretty clueless about it all. I also don't really feel a regional preference, as I like the midwest but also feel excited to try something new, which complicates decisions further. I also don't really know how much "prestige" plays into things like matching or things like that.

But overall, hopefully, I can update with later on with financial information and (fingers crossed!!!) I will have the incredible luck to get into Columbia or Harvard and get to make another post as you mentioned!

Thank you once again for your post and for putting things into perspective.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Head and shoulders above the rest? What?

Even if we would consider that, WashU has sent literally 1 person/yr to ENT in the past 2 years with a 5 year high of 2. This is less than even my state school, and is dwarfed by NU's 4 per year and Pitt.

Unless WashU students consistently hate ENT for some reason and don't apply, then there is literally public information directly denying your claim lmao. Of course that is legitimately possible, since the sample is so small. But with that being said even if you look at other schools in the 1-20 range, WashU is actually ironically just nearing dead last.

I assume you haven’t started med school yet. Match list doesn’t tell half of the story. ENT can be quite disgusting to a lot of people when it comes to mucus… WashU is a solid top10 and some even consider it a t5 program. It’s a very very prestigious name in medicine, much more than Icahn or feinberg. UPMC is arguably close to Barnes Jewish, but not as prestigious.

 

[Goro]

Head and shoulders above the rest? What?

Even if we would consider that, WashU has sent literally 1 person/yr to ENT in the past 2 years with a 5 year high of 2. This is less than even my state school, and is dwarfed by NU's 4 per year and Pitt.

Unless WashU students consistently hate ENT for some reason and don't apply, then there is literally public information directly denying your claim lmao. Of course that is legitimately possible, since the sample is so small. But with that being said even if you look at other schools in the 1-20 range, WashU is actually ironically just nearing dead last.

Reading match lists is a fool's errand. Going into particular fields are personal choices, and if you don't get into ENT, it won't be because you went to Pitt.

 

[deleted1114112]

I assume you haven’t started med school yet. Match list doesn’t tell half of the story. ENT can be quite disgusting to a lot of people when it comes to mucus… WashU is a solid top10 and some even consider it a t5 program. It’s a very very prestigious name in medicine, much more than Icahn or feinberg. UPMC is arguably close to Barnes Jewish, but not as prestigious.

Fair enough, but still I was just looking at trends and past figures to articulate my original point about those schools being fairly equal in matching prospects. Not just a single snapshot of 1 year.

Like what else are people supposed to base it off of. Are you seriously going to have me believe that my normal non-academic career prospects are actually going to be influenced by the prestige difference between Barnes Jewish and UPMC or Northwestern? Disclaimer I don't know much about WashU and didn't bother applying to St. Louis but if you're suggesting that 10 people going into ENT from WashU could all do it, please explain more. As someone deciding between similar schools, if 1 USNews rank makes that much of a difference maybe speak more to that

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Fair enough, but still I was just looking at trends and past figures to articulate my original point about those schools being fairly equal in matching prospects. Not just a single snapshot of 1 year.

Like what else are people supposed to base it off of. Are you seriously going to have me believe that my normal non-academic career prospects are actually going to be influenced by the prestige difference between Barnes Jewish and UPMC or Northwestern? Disclaimer I don't know much about WashU and didn't bother applying to St. Louis but if you're suggesting that 10 people going into ENT from WashU could all do it, please explain more. As someone deciding between similar schools, if 1 USNews rank makes that much of a difference maybe speak more to that

I am clearly not basing my argument on USNews since WashU is ranked 11 this year. However, historically speaking WashU has an excellent name in medicine and from my first hand experience, people coming from top places have a much easier time matching into a competitive specialty. I am not saying the other places on the list are not top. It's just that WashU pops out more among them. That's my opinion and disclaimer I don't go to WashU.

 

[elbowtienoodles]

Updated with some more financial aid info and waitlist info.

Could someone explain if I should stay on waitlists at these schools (Mayo and Columbia) given the other schools I've been accepted to and, if so, can someone tell me how long is prudent to stay on these waitlists given having to have time for my partner to find work, sign leases, and everything? I am feeling very lost and don't have anyone to provide advice.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Updated with some more financial aid info and waitlist info.

Could someone explain if I should even stay on waitlists at these schools (Mayo and Columbia) given the other schools I've been accepted to and, if so, can someone tell me how long is prudent to stay on these waitlists given having to have time for my partner to find work, sign leases, and everything? I am feeling very lost and don't have anyone to provide advice.

Also, I am still confused about how to interpret WashU's ENT match rate of about 1 per year. Should I be concerned about this at all? Over 5 years, they only matched 9. I won't make a decision based off this, but I just don't know if it's a reflection of anything I should be concerned about. Everything else about the school seems absolutely amazing. I am not trying to start another disagreement, just don't know if it's something to consider.

If you would choose Mayo and Columbia over current choices, there is no harm in staying on the waitlist. Not really sure how your partner’s occupational background, but the labor market is red hot. Many of my friends from college and current/old colleagues have switched jobs recently and are frequently contacted by headhunters. I see no reason why parter wouldn’t be able to find a job in a new city if he/she makes the effort. Is it possible he/she can look for remote work and then work the same job regardless?

In regards to the match, I believe that you could match any specialty from any of the schools listed. Match lists are flawed in that the sample sizes are fairly low. Perhaps only 1 person wanted to match ent per year at washu? Does washu have a home program? If so there is probably plenty of opportunities related to ent